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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I didn't really enjoy Splinter Cell games until Conviction, when it became a glorified action game wherein you relied on misdirecting your foes. Before then I felt like I was playing trial and error, which is one of the things in games I hate most (hello Hitman). Chaos Theory was a lot more forgiving but the first two were boring slogfests with bouts of brilliance. Conviction was a more personal story and I loved it for that. The only thing I find fault with is the way they changed Grimsodottir's character. I don't mind her taking a more active role in the games, but she was downright intolerable at times in Conviction
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Dec 16, 2013 08:34
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Yeah, Splinter Cell has always had an array of tight and narrow corridors, but that was kind of for a reason. Wide-open levels tend to be a pain in the rear end to stealth through because it's hard to manage the sight lines of those on levels above you as well as people on your floor. Speaking of open levels, that's the challenge that I'm finding in Crysis 3. Granted, I don't think you're meant to play it as a "stealth game"per se - it seems to me like they want you to play it in a "stealth shoot stealth shoot" kind of style. Still, it's kind of interesting trying to play those big open levels in a pacifist or ghost kind of style.
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Dec 16, 2013 14:08
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blackguy32 posted:The most frustrating thing about the original I remember was the body hiding mechanic. I had made it to the CIA stage, and I could not for the life of me figure out why the hell I was failing the mission despite no one being around. It was also always in the same spot too. The game never mentions that it automatically triggers alarms if it finds bodies not hidden in dark areas. Actually, if I remember right, the game just spawned a guard at the start of the level/area to go wandering around and potentially find any corpse you didn't put a little effort into hiding.
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Dec 16, 2013 14:38
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Nope, I'm pretty sure it's what he said.
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Dec 17, 2013 01:25
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Actually, if I remember right, the game just spawned a guard at the start of the level/area to go wandering around and potentially find any corpse you didn't put a little effort into hiding. Game devs, like anyone else, are inherently lazy. It's much simpler to just use trigger volumes that detect corpses and then run a simple script when the player hits the next checkpoint to see if they left any bodies in non-safe zones. It's as simple (and cheap) as that.
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Dec 17, 2013 04:54
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Yeah, the way you can tell how its done is that you will get the alarm in the same spot every single time. It wouldn't have been as bad if the game had the decency to at least tell you why you are getting the alarm called on you. In fact, I think only a few levels in the game actually do that. Its a really dumb and stupid mechanic.
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Dec 17, 2013 04:57
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I love stealth games and recently got Blacklist having never played a Splinter Cell game before and am really regretting not following this series before. The story is bad and after reading that Michael Ironside used to be the protagonist I am saddened by the "generic gritty soldier" VA they used but the game itself is great. I really like the fact that it rewards whatever playstyle you want to use and that it gives you bonuses for not disturbing guards. I hated in DE:HR feeling like if I didn't knock out a guard it was missed XP. I also really like that the stealth emphasizes mobility and moving quickly when given an opening rather than crawling along at a snails pace. I enjoy slower stealth games too where you move slowly and methodically but it's nice to have one that changes that up a little. I guess I'm just surprised at how good it turned out to be, I've always dismissed SC games because of the Tom Clancy association and all that that represents, but I gotta say the gameplay is fun and challenging and I still haven't even given the multiplayer a shot yet.
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Dec 28, 2013 16:23
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I remember the original SvM fondly. A buddy and I played it everyday for months, and even used that planner program they released with maps if all the levels and graphics you could add to plan your routes and poo poo. Then everybody discovered that it was incredibly easy to just Mario the mercs to death by rushing into a room, dropping smoke, standing on a table and waiting for them to enter the room to get hopped on. Once that happened, the dynamics of the game completely changed, and suddenly you felt like the hunted as a merc, and the hunter as a spy. Still, it was hella fun. I haven't played the new one, but 4v4 seems like a bit much for the mode. 2v2 felt perfect, making your partner super important because you have no other backup if you screw things up.
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Dec 28, 2013 21:22
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I got this game for Christmas on the PS3 (let me know if any of y'all still want to co-op), and two things have been bugging me. One: how do I hide bodies? I've thrown corpses off ledges and into rivers and nothing. Two: what happens if you fill up your Ghost/Predator/Conflict bar in the post-mission screen? Do you get considerably extra? I still have yet to do it and I'm wondering. Additionally: is this game really ugly or is it just the PS3 version? The textures on all of Sam's clothes in particular is just awful. It's been a long time since I played it, but I feel like Conviction was prettier. I keep thinking Grimsdottir is going to turn out to be a Canadian spy because of how she pronounces about as "aboat".
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Dec 29, 2013 01:17
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Anyone still playing this on PC? I finally upgraded my PC and would like to find some people to play with. Uplay name is trob32. Also, for some reason I don't think my mic is working in game. It works for everything else, but not in this. I don't see the speaker moving when I am in a lobby.
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Dec 29, 2013 03:47
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Hot Dog Day #31 posted:after reading that Michael Ironside used to be the protagonist I am saddened by the "generic gritty soldier" VA they used
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Dec 29, 2013 04:21
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blackguy32 posted:Anyone still playing this on PC? I finally upgraded my PC and would like to find some people to play with. Uplay name is trob32. The VOIP is really screwy in the PC version, it works very sporadically
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Dec 29, 2013 17:06
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Hot Dog Day #31 posted:The story is bad and after reading that Michael Ironside used to be the protagonist I am saddened by the "generic gritty soldier" VA they used but the game itself is great. It's worse than that. They have consciously and deliberately destroyed the character over the past few games. They took a character that was not just a badass that hit people and yelled and was instead what you might expect from a dude ground down by years of doing often unpleasant "necessary" things but still manages to attempt to be a human being into a guy that hits people and yells a lot. Word on the street is that the changing character and increased emphasis on brutal violence is one reason Ironside was increasingly hesitant to keep reprising the role. Blacklist is still an amazing game, though. So there's that.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:18
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blackguy32 posted:Anyone still playing this on PC? I finally upgraded my PC and would like to find some people to play with. Uplay name is trob32. I just started playing again. My uplay name is Aftermath8.
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Dec 31, 2013 00:34
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I don't mind that they got rid of Ironside. He sounded absurdly drunk and jowly in Conviction. ("WHERES MY DOTTUR?!") And it does usually help games to have the voice actors do the mocap. But it does suck way they've changed Sam into a totally gung ho, Captain America, "MY HUNCHES WIN MRS PRESIDENT", grey haired 30 year old indistinguishable from any other generic, terrible, tone-deaf shooter guy. It doesn't help that this game has more unnecessary dialogue than...Anything I can think of. There's techno/briefing babble. "We put a secret hacking pixel tracker on his email. The NSA says he has ties to Iran." (Guess what? You could just say you found out he has ties to Iran. You could even say this mid-mission.) And the "banter" between the unlikeable characters who all dislike each other. Every side mission and stuff just has characters talking so much, just repeating the basic personality traits you understood as soon as you were introduced to them, and more pointless detail on why they want you to "go there and sneak through dudes". I'm just glad you can skip all of this (rare in a Ubisoft game). And what was Sadiq after, anyway?!
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Dec 31, 2013 01:21
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Its amazing how much they changed Sam Fisher's character. Between him, Grim, and Charlie, Briggs is a godsend compared to them simply because it seems that he barely has any lines. Also, Charlie is easily the worst.
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Dec 31, 2013 01:30
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blackguy32 posted:Its amazing how much they changed Sam Fisher's character. Between him, Grim, and Charlie, Briggs is a godsend compared to them simply because it seems that he barely has any lines. Also, Charlie is easily the worst. Briggs is also the only character that is generally reasonable, rational, tries to do the right thing for his allies even if it means not saving the world right then and there, and doesn't really want to burn Fourth Echelon's bridges with the other intelligence agencies. This, of course, means Sam needs to spend the entire game screaming at him for doing everything a person could possibly do wrong wrong and revoking his ability to go on missions because he isn't a goal oriented gently caress everything but the mission kind of guy even though that's not who Sam was either.
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Dec 31, 2013 01:43
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checkstock posted:Word on the street is that the changing character and increased emphasis on brutal violence is one reason Ironside was increasingly hesitant to keep reprising the role. My guess is if he was going to do it again he'd like the ride out his character's arc - that started, say in the first game and barely peeked its head up for real until Double Agent (and only for about five minutes). Again, to  us gamers , Sam Fisher in the first few games was something else but I guess Ironside grew tired of him being fairly one-note (even if that note was basically the only unique one amidst a hundred similar bald space marines) and he was probably going to quit if he was just going to be "that guy" in the field talking about old man stuff (though the fans liked this I don't know how much more he could probably take) and occasionally spewing out "plot lines" because video games.So call it soft reboot or James-Bondification for Sam Fisher's character in Blacklist, but I'd like to think MI's take on Sam Fisher was over with Conviction, and internal consistency be damned, he is a new man now even if everyone else around (and us behind the screen) don't see it that way. Hopefully they take to heart the criticisms about the writing with Fisher et. al. It wasn't heinous as gently caress but really edging on character assassination more than a few times but I felt like they (or at least the performance actor, Eric Johnson) reined it in with what material they had. Doesn't help there is no gravelly Michael Ironside voice anymore. But still a fantastic game. I would have to say it has the best (read: intuitive) stealth mechanics/systems thus far. Consoles hold it back a bit (passing points of no return = more or less reset detection status) but stuff like guards being able to see you in the dark if you are literally a foot away, guards getting suspicious if you take someone out mid-sentence or guards not being loving stupid and calling for backup before searching makes the game much more fun and thrilling even if you make a mistake.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:06
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I have posted in this thread about what a shitshow this game's story is even considering it is a Tom Clancy game. Developers are in an arms race to come up with the biggest right wing foreign policy fantasy wank in their shooters these days.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:14
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VagueRant posted:And what was Sadiq after, anyway?! Information. Information is power, especially if it can be used to manipulate, control, blackmail, etc even the people who collected it.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:19
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Sadiq can Suq Madiq. Even that awful one-liner shows more wit than Blacklist's script.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:29
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Sober posted:It's no secret. There have been a few interviews I've watched and his pretty clear on his position. Even though Conviction is pretty much the bloodiest of the series, he returned for it because it wasn't "gung-ho" (even in comparison to other TC/shooter characters he isn't) Sam Fisher showing them drat Commies/Asian Commies/Eastern Europeans/Corrupted Americans who was boss, but rather because it was a video game ABOUT Sam Fisher. Its not really surprising. Grimsdottir got a overhaul in Conviction as well. Her character feels nothing like the character that was in Chaos Theory and previous. I dont think it is a bad thing, since I like that she took on a bigger role in Conviction, but it is a bit jarring watching her just murder people like it isn't a problem. Narcissus1916 posted:Sadiq can Suq Madiq. Not gonna lie, I laughed at this.
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Dec 31, 2013 04:35
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What was Grim like originally? I don't really remember. Off the story and back to gameplay - what's up with the guards that magically know where you are when you shoot (with a silenced weapon!) and kill one of them even though you weren't in sight of anyone? It seems like there's a 50/50 chance of every guard in the area instantly knowing where you are every time you try and play panther style. This also makes the amount of missions where if getting spotted is an instant game over very frustrating. I don't know what they were thinking with them. I mean one or two, sure, but come on. Then the guys with helmets completely render the Mark and Execute feature completely pointless. Sam is a master of popping helmets off from afar, but he does not know how to double tap! The upgrading system is weirdly unbalanced. Why would you ever upgrade the first two pistols? You just buy the middle one so you can buy the last one and upgrade that, no? It has the best stats and ammo! Once unlocked, why would you buy any assault rifle that isn't the ultra powerful SC4K thing? The lack of drop in/drop out co-op is really dumb. And it causes problems if your internet disconnects mid-game. Playing an embassy horde mode mission for twenty-thirty minutes and losing EVERYTHING = fun! The glitches also can really screw you over in that mode. (The infinite supply of little one-hit-kill exploding RC cars can gently caress off too.) And back to the story, there's the gripping moral choices of KILL or SPARE pointlessly thrown in about three times. Why wouldn't Sam always spare people who could be useful prisoners and intelligence assets? It's not like he's a vigilante any more. Oh and PRESS SQUARE TO EXECUTE FIFTH FREEDOM is one of the dumbest things I've seen in gaming this year. Plus, the previously discussed level where you sneak into Guantanamo Bay...so you can torture a prisoner there. Sam crushes the dude's wrist in a folding chair a little bit and he immediately gives up his info. Because apparently that's all it takes! I don't understand how anything with millions spent on mocap and cutscenes can be so utterly tone-deaf and not self-aware
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Dec 31, 2013 12:15
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Yeah the whole panther style or lethal style illustrates one of the things that I find funny about just about every stealth game I've ever played: playing lethal is harder than non-lethal. Most games try to make a point of "you can kill guards or you can knock the guards out BUT THEY MIGHT WAKE UP SO IT'S TOUGHER" but in practice this doesn't happen. In Blacklist for example, you shoot a guy with the tazer they go down (unless it's a heavy,) and it's pretty much silent, whereas with guns you have to shoot them in the head or many times in the body, if the have a helmet gotta shoot that off, and then everyone around them is gonna hear it inevitably. Deus Ex, MGS have similar issues with the lethal vs. non-lethal. Only game I can think of that makes lethal options easier is Dishonored because of that ability that turns the bodies to dust after kills so you don't have to hide them.
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Dec 31, 2013 13:02
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VagueRant posted:What was Grim like originally? I don't really remember. In CT, she was a goofy nerdgirl who would make fun of Sam for being so old. I think in the previous games, she was a technical advisor but more serious and not as prominent as in CT.
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Dec 31, 2013 14:46
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Seventh Arrow posted:In CT, she was a goofy nerdgirl who would make fun of Sam for being so old. I think in the previous games, she was a technical advisor but more serious and not as prominent as in CT. Yep, it was basically her and Lambert that made up the rest of the dialogue during the game, and between missions.
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Dec 31, 2013 16:16
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VagueRant posted:What was Grim like originally? I don't really remember. The only three longarms worth using: 1) SC4K 2) The best silenced sniper because you can mark and execute from almost unlimited range and it even sometimes clips. Importantly, it sometimes goes through helmets. 3) The loudest most high-damage rifle you can find because you give no fucks Other than that, all the "main" weapons should be ignored.
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Dec 31, 2013 18:07
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This game becomes infinitely more fun once you start unlocking some of the gadgets and gear. You can sneak faster, have more options, have more intel on the battlefield and the game just seems a lot more faster paced instead of having to wait til a guard looks away.
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Jan 2, 2014 05:54
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blackguy32 posted:This game becomes infinitely more fun once you start unlocking some of the gadgets and gear. You can sneak faster, have more options, have more intel on the battlefield and the game just seems a lot more faster paced instead of having to wait til a guard looks away. Yeah once you have the fully upgraded headset the game becomes a lot easier. It's also super worth it to completely upgrade the crossbow right away even if you have disdain for nonlethal solutions. Then of course you unlock the high-armor and high-sneak clothing sets. None of this takes very long, leaving you to unlock a bunch of junk at your leisure.
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Jan 2, 2014 06:05
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Yeah once you have the fully upgraded headset the game becomes a lot easier. It's also super worth it to completely upgrade the crossbow right away even if you have disdain for nonlethal solutions. Then of course you unlock the high-armor and high-sneak clothing sets. I just need to complete all of Grim's missions to unlock the high stealth gear.
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Jan 2, 2014 06:12
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Even the gear I got from the "digital deluxe" version(which was cheaper for me than the normal version because of eBay) makes most of the early and mid-game missions a breeze. Anyway, I think I want to start playing this again. Quit because of GTA5 MP, a poor mistake in retrospect.
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Jan 2, 2014 07:07
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Finally beat all the Grim missions. The 2nd one was a pain in the rear end and eventually we stopped trying to ghost it and just simply either killed or knocked out everyone with sticky shockers. I am absolutely loving the fully upgraded stealth suit. You can pretty much just crouch walk behind someone and knock them out without slowing down.
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Jan 2, 2014 09:41
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blackguy32 posted:Finally beat all the Grim missions. The 2nd one was a pain in the rear end and eventually we stopped trying to ghost it and just simply either killed or knocked out everyone with sticky shockers. I am absolutely loving the fully upgraded stealth suit. You can pretty much just crouch walk behind someone and knock them out without slowing down.
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Jan 2, 2014 09:52
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blackguy32 posted:Finally beat all the Grim missions. The 2nd one was a pain in the rear end and eventually we stopped trying to ghost it and just simply either killed or knocked out everyone with sticky shockers. I am absolutely loving the fully upgraded stealth suit. You can pretty much just crouch walk behind someone and knock them out without slowing down. Roman fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 14:31
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Roman posted:Are you talking about the roadblock one? With the sniper pointed right at the truck you need to go into? That one is awful. And I'm playing them solo. Here's what you do - Sneak around the cliff side of the truck with the objective in the back and hide inside it. Watch the Sniper's pattern and you'll get a couple of good chances when the Sniper's aiming to the right along with the guard in the back of the truck between yours and the base. If you hang a left as you pass the truck you can sneak through the garage and find a ladder leading up to the second floor so you can bypass the metal detectors and ground-floor guard. Once inside, wait until the first-floor guard decides to go stare out the window and sneak past into the room with the objective. And shut the door behind you or he'll notice. After you bypass the laser grid (just shock the fusebox and save the headache), go out via window of the room with the final objective. There's a camera that paths right over where you'll drop, so you have to be careful. Sneak through the gate and through the little valley (the Bonus Capture guy is lurking around here), and it'll drop you back in the starting area. Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 14:38
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smuh posted:You can literally just crouch sprint through the levels with the best stealth suit no problem. poo poo is crazy quiet.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:24
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I have posted in this thread about what a shitshow this game's story is even considering it is a Tom Clancy game. Developers are in an arms race to come up with the biggest right wing foreign policy fantasy wank in their shooters these days.
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Jan 2, 2014 19:36
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Roman posted:Developed by Canadian, French-Canadian, and Shanghai-based studios and published by a French company. Are you actually going to debate the merits or is it too amazing that military shooters are all trying to get in on the Call of Duty market?
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Jan 2, 2014 19:38
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Nah just noting that from reading these forums, the complaints about stories in games like these often come from people who often act like Fox News pundits are writing these scripts, when it's just a bunch of bleeding heart liberals (some from countries with socialized health care) giving the US market what they think we want. This wasn't specifically aimed at you or anything.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:04
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I am kind of at the point where I am sick of non-lethal gameplay. I know that certain concessions are made for gameplay reasons but they are always pretty hilarious. There is very little reason for Sam Fisher not to kill most of the people he comes across in this game. Plus knocking people out are almost always functionally the same as killing them. In Metal Gear Solid, it actually makes it easier to just simply tranquilize everyone.
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Jan 2, 2014 21:38
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