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I always rush Industrialism for the free tenets. I look at the tourism overview and if I’m being influenced heavily and I don’t think I can ride it out with excess happiness, I go Order. Order is almost always the most popular ideology on Immortal and Deity. Otherwise, I go Freedom because it’s just better.
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Jan 3, 2014 18:54
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The real question is, why were there eight other players left? Murder Time Fun Time has the late-game benefit of eliminating potential threats before they even get into the Renaissance Era. I used to be very self-conscious about this until I realized that the AI will always inevitably hate you just because you're winning, so it's not like diplomacy is gonna help you but for some research agreements in the mid-game. Even those I've noticed have gotten quite the nerf for the tech leader since G&K. Re: rushing Industrialism, I prefer the Radio slingshot with Oxford. If you build it in your top production city, chances are you'll get both it and finish Electricity before you would complete Factories in three different cities. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 18:57
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The problem with the Radio slingshot is that even if you pop Oxford for Radio itself, Scientific Theory has more pre‐requisites: everything Industrialization has, plus Acoustics and Architecture. That’s quite a wait.
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Jan 3, 2014 19:18
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NZAmoeba posted:1) This is why you should make the Continents Plus change Yeah Venice is disgustingly easy maybe it's just really suited to my playstyle (I love tall with puppets) but Merchant of Venice seems unfair in some games. From setting up trade hubs like you said, to puppeting that CS that has coal/oil/plutonium, to just stealing that CS that has a huge navy and whoa it's mine now. You should hit a stage where you industrialise first and then buy factories in your 10 puppets on the next turn. You're Venice. aeverous fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 3, 2014 |
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Jan 3, 2014 19:27
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I wish I was better at seeing enemy victories coming. England just beat me via Diplomacy while I was just about 20 turns from Cultural as Ethiopia. Every vote was crazy even between her and Alexander but at some point she swung the poo poo out of every city state and I failed to see it happening.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:17
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Disable diplomatic victory in single player, seriously. Cash already rules everything around you in this game, you don't really need to to be able to literally buy a win in addition to that (or get pantsed by an AI doing it). More gold/GPT does everything for you. More units and happiness buildings you can maintain, rush buying, more city state allies and perks, more bribes to the AI. It's not as bad as it was in G&K since you have to protect trade routes to keep that income going, but it's still pretty bad.
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Jan 4, 2014 03:42
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Antares posted:Disable diplomatic victory in single player, seriously. Cash already rules everything around you in this game, you don't really need to to be able to literally buy a win in addition to that (or get pantsed by an AI doing it). More gold/GPT does everything for you. More units and happiness buildings you can maintain, rush buying, more city state allies and perks, more bribes to the AI. It's not as bad as it was in G&K since you have to protect trade routes to keep that income going, but it's still pretty bad. It's worse than that. Now that diplomatic victory no longer requires construction of the UN or any technological advance it is essentially guaranteed to happen before a science or cultural victory can be achieved.
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Jan 4, 2014 11:46
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Speaking of Great Scientists, is it ever beneficial to create Academies, or should they always be expended for beakers?
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Jan 4, 2014 16:21
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The Sweetling posted:Speaking of Great Scientists, is it ever beneficial to create Academies, or should they always be expended for beakers? Plant the first few for sure. Early in the game they pay for themselves within a few dozen turns, and in the late game they can yield up to 50 beakers/turn each, as well as culture if the World Congress has passed Historical Landmarks. Try clicking on an existing academy tile and seeing how your beakers/turn changes. Multiply that by the number of turns you expect the game will last for then compare to what you would if you expended the scientist to help discover a technology. The Modern Era is when they start to break even. There are fewer turns left in the game for the academies to work their magic, and your raw rate is very high so you would get a lot of beakers for expending them. Keep in mind you don’t have to use the scientist right away. I usually have two or three scientists waiting for me to research Plastics and build research labs. The best time to use great scientists is at least eight turns (on standard speed) after your labs have become operational.
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Jan 4, 2014 16:56
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Platystemon posted:Plant the first few for sure. Early in the game they pay for themselves within a few dozen turns, and in the late game they can yield up to 50 beakers/turn each, as well as culture if the World Congress has passed Historical Landmarks. I'd stop making academies way before Modern. I make no more than 2.
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Jan 4, 2014 17:03
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Personally I like to use them to build Academies just because of the long term benefit, but I just looked up the formula for how many beakers they actually give you, and optimal use depends on your situation. They provide a certain number of turns worth of beakers of your current science output (the number depends on game speed; 5.36 for quick, 8 for standard, 12 for epic, 24 for marathon). So essentially to figure out how useful an Academy will be for you, multiply your current science output by the modifier for your current game speed, then divide the resulting number by your current Academy yield (you can probably just round it up to the next level if you're close to discovering scientific theory or atomic theory). The result is the number of turns it will take for an Academy to produce an equivalent number of beakers to just popping the GS immediately. It'll be slightly off because of the weirdness of beaker overflow, but I'm trying to keep the calculation simple.
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Jan 4, 2014 17:05
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The Cheshire Cat posted:So essentially to figure out how useful an Academy will be for you, multiply your current science output by the modifier for your current game speed, then divide the resulting number by your current Academy yield (you can probably just round it up to the next level if you're close to discovering scientific theory or atomic theory). Science gets a lot of multipliers, 10% from Rationalism, 17% from universities and Free Thought, 33% for the university itself, 50% for the National College, 50% for observatories, 50% from research labs and if you picked Order, 25% from a factory. All told, working the tile might yield 335% as many beakers as the tooltip suggests.
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Jan 4, 2014 17:12
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Platystemon posted:Science gets a lot of multipliers, 10% from Rationalism, 17% from universities and Free Thought, 33% for the university itself, 50% for the National College, 50% for observatories, 50% from research labs and if you picked Order, 25% from a factory. ...It's weird to note how many multipliers Science gets. I don't think Food gets that many, nor does production.
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Jan 4, 2014 18:29
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The Polish just declared war on me, claiming they needed 'living space.'
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Jan 4, 2014 18:34
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What's polish for liebensraum?
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Jan 4, 2014 18:37
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Bloodly posted:...It's weird to note how many multipliers Science gets. I don't think Food gets that many, nor does production. This is part of what allows second-banana civs to catch up in the middle of the game now. Early on simply having more people will give you more beakers, but a burgeoning population won't help you in the face of a Free Thought/University renaissance city in the jungle.
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Jan 4, 2014 18:38
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One of my puppet cities as Venice has decided to produce Wealth, even though there's a bunch of basic buildings left to be built. Is there any way to dissuade them?
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Jan 4, 2014 19:08
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How is your GPT? The only thing I can think is they tend to prioritize what they think you need, so if your income is low or negative they might favor wealth/markets/banks.
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Jan 4, 2014 19:18
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Does Continents Plus have less resources or is that just a combination of confirmation bias and seeing the crazy 20-resource starts people post here?
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Jan 4, 2014 20:27
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StashAugustine posted:Does Continents Plus have less resources or is that just a combination of confirmation bias and seeing the crazy 20-resource starts people post here? There are at least a couple ITT that do stuff like always play with Legendary Start set on King, restarting until they have 4 Salt, and dispense advice on how handily you should be winning games. I doubt it's the map script. I often generate maps (although I seldom use continents plus) with regional resource concentrations where I'd have to go 50 tiles to find more than two different luxuries.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:35
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For some reason I used to think Prince was too hard, but as of today it's easy enough that it's boring. I'm routinely stepping all over the AI while they beg me for money and friendship declarations. I'm pretty sure I've gotten both World Religion and World Ideology every time without even going for a diplomatic victory. Any tips for King? I'm thinking I'll start in my comfort zone, Babylon and Science Victory.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:40
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Antares posted:How is your GPT? The only thing I can think is they tend to prioritize what they think you need, so if your income is low or negative they might favor wealth/markets/banks. I had something like 200 GPT. :v They went back to buildings after a few turns, so I guess it was just an AI quirk.
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Jan 4, 2014 20:42
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Harrow posted:For some reason I used to think Prince was too hard, but as of today it's easy enough that it's boring. I'm routinely stepping all over the AI while they beg me for money and friendship declarations. I'm pretty sure I've gotten both World Religion and World Ideology every time without even going for a diplomatic victory. Genghis - Keshik
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Jan 4, 2014 20:42
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Cynic Jester posted:Genghis - Keshik There is something uniquely beautiful about a ranged unit that can move after attacking. I can never decide if I like that or the Chu-No-Ku "fire twice per turn who needs cannons and also you keep this magnificent ability all the way up to Bazooka" better.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:00
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the worst part about Keshiks and Horse Archers is they turn into melee units. If you don't do a hell of a lot of conquering before they obsolete, you're sitting on a bunch of +1 Range, Double Range Attack Melee Units who get neither of those bonuses.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:09
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I’m pretty sure Logistics carries over to cavalry (and stacks with blitz), though range obviously doesn’t. The worst part is that accuracy and barrage don’t carry over yet you’re still paying for them in XP cost scaling.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:35
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Accuracy and Barrage carry over their damage bonuses but they don't allow you to access promotions deeper in the tree.
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Jan 4, 2014 21:40
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Keshiks still win over cannons, gatling guns and the early gunpowder infantry, they just take a little longer to kill.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:18
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Platystemon posted:I’m pretty sure Logistics carries over to cavalry (and stacks with blitz), though range obviously doesn’t. The worst part is that accuracy and barrage don’t carry over yet you’re still paying for them in XP cost scaling. Logistics does not carry over. I know because my Horse Archer turned Knight could only attack once.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:18
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JayMax posted:I'd stop making academies way before Modern. I make no more than 2. Bloodly posted:...It's weird to note how many multipliers Science gets. I don't think Food gets that many, nor does production. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 02:40
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JayMax posted:I'd stop making academies way before Modern. I make no more than 2. Unless you're planning on abusing the overflow exploit or something, that would sacrifice too much early and mid game science, imo. I usually go for around 3 or 4 academies around my capital. The White Dragon posted:The thread used to say the cutoff point is Plastics, but I've lately been stopping at around Scientific Theory. Still, I generate so many goddamn GSes to that point I usually have four or five Academies by then. I've never heard anyone say to settle GSes until plastics. I've heard plenty of people say to save up your GSes after a certain point and mass bulb them once you hit Plastics, or somewhere around there. That's a viable strategy.
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Jan 5, 2014 03:20
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I think that technically Logistics does carry over from Keshik to Cavalry, but since Logistics only applies to ranged attacks which the Cavalry doesn't use, it can't make use of the promotion.
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Jan 5, 2014 04:30
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Eric the Mauve posted:I think that technically Logistics does carry over from Keshik to Cavalry, but since Logistics only applies to ranged attacks which the Cavalry doesn't use, it can't make use of the promotion. The one time I tried this, my cav upgraded from Keshiks could attack twice with the Logistics upgrade, but adding Blitz didn't give the cav any additional attacks.
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Jan 5, 2014 04:35
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Been awhile since I went for an early military victory. Went Zulu, built up my forces to kick rear end. Unfortunately Askia was my neighbor and his city was quite powerful. He had few forces but he was able to blow away my catapults in one shot each using just his city. drat. I had forgotten that the Zulu really shine in the Middle Ages. Needed more Impi!
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Jan 5, 2014 04:41
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So is this like a good place to find serious players for multiplayer games?
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Jan 5, 2014 05:34
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AddMEonFacebook posted:So is this like a good place to find serious players for multiplayer games? There is a steam group for this thread, with regular games: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/goonciv Currently there's a game running for US players (Thursday and Sunday, 7pm EST to 9pm EST) which tends to turn into a series as one game ends and a new one starts - but so far only one game at a time. I think they're in the middle of one at the moment. I've been trying to start a game for EU players - same days but a few hours earlier - but have been plagued with computer problems. Last time I just plain disappeared because my computer was overheating. I think they're finally all fixed now though so I'm going to try and join the next US game and play that through (just to make sure), then start an EU game again. Microplastics fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 10:20
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I randomed Siam in a multiplayer game so I said to myself okay: Gonna collect all the things worth selling, going to make a huge trade empire, going to spend money on making city states like me, going to go tradition and get huge stacked cities and be the happiest goddamn country that ever existed. I started on a continent by myself with only a mercantile city state. The island had two wines, five sugars, one gem. Each of those sugars was far enough away that it required a separate city to reach. I only put two on this first lonely continent before paddling over for better locations and found one with spice, two bananas, and three pearls. So my trade empire safely consisted of one banana, one wine, two sugars, two pearls. After that I'm selling my happiness. I Look over at the trade options for my friend, on the main continent, running liberty, and he has every single luxury resource except pearls, whales, and porcelain, and he was at war with america, then ethiopia, then I paid austria to go to war with him and he beat them too, and then he doubled my score and like whatever my score was his was exactly double for the rest of the game. He didn't sell his resources he just sat on them, three at a time, and I couldn't catch up. So clearly when there's only one cultured city state and korea won't stop rigging the elections, and I do not have a trade empire base, and I can only find mercantile city states, the answer was not to go piety (gods and kings only by the way) for the +culture from excess happiness and hope to out culture/outtech with my wats in the jungle. I lost very badly and confusingly. I would periodically ask what his gold/culture/science per turn was and my numbers were either higher or at parity but he was doing laps around me culture wise (I finished tradition, got three into piety, he had finished commerce and liberty and had the same honor opener I did. He had four cities and for 90% of the game I only had three but he out cultured me). He very clearly was doing culture faster than me even though he shouldn't have, unless being at war as japan gives you culture out the rear end. My religion, also, was built to make city states like me better and take to the faith faster, plus pagodas and cathedrals and it didn't end up helping. A side question: Only the aztecs are supposed to get culture from war right? Why do I see culture +'s appear after killing barbarians no matter who I play? Okay so clearly the RNG boned me with placement but that's only if my original idea was my only option and I'm pretty sure there exists a thing to do when you have a continent to yourself and all the sugar you can eat. What should I have done with simple isolation and inherent security from the fact that nobody is likely to bother me?
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Jan 5, 2014 12:41
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Basic tank equips itself with advanced weapons found in the ancient ruins -- suddenly a flock of modern armor! That must have been the leftovers of one of my apocalypse-then-space victories. In my most recent game I managed to pick up a lot of culture and free policies, snagged first ideology suddenly, and popped out the six foreign legions; only needed to attack with two or three to capture any city on my entire continent  They trounced the in-vogue pikemen and muskets.
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Jan 5, 2014 12:42
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Krinkle posted:A side question: Only the aztecs are supposed to get culture from war right? Why do I see culture +'s appear after killing barbarians no matter who I play? Because you took the honor opener.
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Jan 5, 2014 13:33
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Krinkle posted:A side question: Only the aztecs are supposed to get culture from war right? Why do I see culture +'s appear after killing barbarians no matter who I play? The honor opener gives you culture for killing barbs. It might help if you post a save file of one of your games so we can identify what exactly is going wrong. You mentioned you needed 5 cities to reach all the sugar on the island but really, building extra cities just to get more copies of a luxury you already have is not worth it by itself.
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Jan 5, 2014 13:35
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