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I'm not sure how much you can determine from when we called it quits. I don't know if there's a log of moves you can fast forward through. I wanted to play until I murdered the hell out of the hated Koreans, who used treachery and bribes to steal the only two city states I cared about from me - capetown and bucharest. I exchanged embassies with civilizations, but besides those pin pricks that third continent still says Here Be Dragons for all of it. Here's the end save Yeah I didn't think four cities sharing 6 sugars would be a good plan. I just grabbed the gold mine, then left that poo poo continent. I instead went for the pearls and then ran out of new places to go with novel luxury goods. The 4th city was made so that if I had to switch to a war economy there'd be a road and less sea to travel to reenforce my city with the pearls. Atilla the hun declared war on me as soon as his cold war with Korea was resolved and also my friend jokingly bought my city states and made them declare war on me also. Just to rub it in that he ran things.
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Jan 5, 2014 13:54
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Caveat: I haven't looked at your save. Piety isn't especially good in G&K either. Rationalism is basically always a superior choice (some people, myself included, don't always choose Rationalism because that would be boring, but they do so in the knowledge that it is generally suboptimal); if it's not available by the time you've finished Tradition, I'd recommend Patronage. I don't know if the change to the Consulates(?) policy carried over into G&K, but being able to perma-friend CSes with it and a pledge to protect is quite useful for Siam. Not settling extra cities for duplicate sugar was almost certainly the right call, so good job there. You ought to think of bribing AIs to declare war on a human player as a supplement to your strategy to take him down rather than the core of it. Humans are usually so much better than the AI at war-fighting that they basically can't lose. BUT, if you are fighting the other human yourself and you're on even terms, adding an AI can tip the balance in your favor by drawing off part of his forces. Side note: bananas aren't a luxury even though you can build plantations on them. They're a "bonus resource" like wheat, cows, or stone.
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Jan 5, 2014 20:26
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Son of a bitch. "Does every single civilization already have bananas?" I asked myself for thousands of years. Oh a thing I just thought of: At some point I got a message that "Austria has activated a social policy that will degrade your standing with city states faster" and then I spent the next ten minutes poring over every single social policy and none of them said they did that. What the hell was that talking about? I just now remembered Austria can buy city states but is that the message for notifying you of it? E: I never thought to check the finisher bonus. Dangggggg. Krinkle fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jan 5, 2014 |
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Jan 5, 2014 20:32
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Krinkle posted:Oh a thing I just thought of: At some point I got a message that "Austria has activated a social policy that will degrade your standing with city states faster" and then I spent the next ten minutes poring over every single social policy and none of them said they did that. What the hell was that talking about? This is the G&K patronage tree finisher, as I recall.
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Jan 5, 2014 21:10
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I finished two games at opposite ends of the spectrum. Both Emperor Standard-size. Polish religion-led culture victory, my first. Tried to set myself the challenge of doing it as peacefully as possible. Took Madrid early and then basically didn't build any military until the endgame. Took Freedom while Nebuchadnezzar took Autocracy and everyone else Order. I got really boned by only getting a single antiquity site in range to work. Spent the game buying all the civs to war one another. Dido was my culture rival and had such a massive culture pool that a 5 ~6000 strength concert-tour bomb left me short by 2 musicians worth. I had ~20 turns until I spawned a musician and got enough religion to buy another one. In the meantime my open borders with Dido ended and she started plotting against me, all the while the other civs were completing spaceship parts. So I bought/built 8 nukes, annihilated everything on Dido's land and captured Carthage. Then a couple of turns later traded it back to her for Open borders and popped the final two musicians to finish the game. With only 3 cities, Warsaw on desert without petra, and the lack of antiquity sites I don't think I did too bad for a first attempt. 2nd game I was aiming for an easy-mode science victory on Nebuchadnezzar. I didn't expect it to be this easy.  On an island with 7 salt. Ended the game 18 techs ahead with everyone friendly with me, not a single act of aggression towards me the whole game. I had my religion and Ideology (Order) adopted by the Congress. At the end I even had the largest military manpower despite only ever producing 3 frigates and a privateer, the rest from city-state gifts. With hindsight I definitely could have gotten the victory much faster. twoot fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 02:29
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That city placement in the second screenshot is just painful, but still, not too bad. I want a start like that and to have my capital positioned to get all 7 salt and 2 wheat, and go for the Sun God pantheon. What a massive city that would be.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:37
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That city placement in the second screenshot is just painful, but still, not too bad. I want a start like that and to have my capital positioned to get all 7 salt and 2 wheat, and go for the Sun God pantheon. What a massive city that would be. Where would you have settled? Akkad is on a river, Nippur I settled last to get 2 salt (and 2 fish). By the end the only tiles I wasn't working were a desert, a plain, a salt, and the southern end. My main aim was to have them all coastal. twoot fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Jan 6, 2014 |
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Jan 6, 2014 02:48
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7 salt and 2 wheat would mean off-coast, and while that means your T250 capital would be stronger, your T150 capital would be much weaker.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:52
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Phobophilia posted:7 salt and 2 wheat would mean off-coast, and while that means your T250 capital would be stronger, your T150 capital would be much weaker. Coasts are overrated, I'm not sure how much merit this statement has to be honest. Would the capital really be much weaker on turn 150? The handful of food per turn you'd be losing from trade routes would be made up for in the food from resources. If it's money you're worried about, you only need one or two cities on the coast. I didn't mean to nitpick their strategy or whatever (especially since it's not like they could have known turn 1, and that's a pretty good turn 1 settle spot), I was just salivating at the thought of what kind of mega capital you could build if put in the center of all that.
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Jan 6, 2014 02:57
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I see what you mean now. I might try again myself but here is the autosave for anyone interested https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgwwhi32vq9h6f8/AutoSave_Initial_0000%20BC-4000.Civ5Save Mods I used were Advanced Setup and Infoaddict. Starting visibility is +10 so I could see the entire island and I didn't start at Babylon's location, I was focused on a coastal start so didn't consider the 7 salt/wine/2 wheat as a single location.
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Jan 6, 2014 03:13
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Coasts are excellent. How much food does a cargo ship give? +6 or so. How much food does a salt tile give? +1. This is something people always forget, and it isn't mentioned clearly enough for Civ5 city management, but every single citizen eats 2 food. So a salt mine gives only a surplus of +1 food. This mechanic isn't really clearly advertised in Civ5, due to the presence of alternative sources of food besides tile yields that you need to exploit, but it is absolutely front and centre in Civ4. So comparing opportunity costs, say you have 4 cities and 3 food routes to your capital on T120. If your capital is inland, then you're getting say +12 food from caravans. If all your cities are coastal, then you might be getting say +21 food from cargo ships. This acts to speed your growth through the midgame, meaning you hit the 20s and 30s earlier, meaning better science and first pick at all the different wonders. Yes, coastal cities have alot more deadweight tiles, but the point is that coastal cities let you hit that peak alot sooner than the alternative, and that kind of advantage snowballs you ahead. And besides, specialist slots are extremely important to work in Civ5, and coastal cities have the advantage of getting large population sizes that can be immediately put to work in the universities and workshops, instead of being forced to reinvest into more food surplus via terrain tiles.
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Jan 6, 2014 03:25
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Landsknects can move after purchasing, correct?
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Jan 6, 2014 07:04
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StashAugustine posted:Landsknects can move after purchasing, correct? Yeah. That saved my rear end in a run of the Africa scenario - one of my cities was poised to be over-run by hordes of enemies before my reinforcements could arrive, but I had an assload of cash, so I bought like 10 landschnects in a single turn. They got slaughtered, but they bogged down the enemy long enough for my army to come to the rescue. I love the landschnect mechanic.
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Jan 6, 2014 08:34
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KKKlean Energy posted:Yeah. That saved my rear end in a run of the Africa scenario - one of my cities was poised to be over-run by hordes of enemies before my reinforcements could arrive, but I had an assload of cash, so I bought like 10 landschnects in a single turn. They got slaughtered, but they bogged down the enemy long enough for my army to come to the rescue. I love the landschnect mechanic. I really wish it scaled- Swiss mercs-Landschnects-Foreign Legion-Soldiers of Fortune or something like that. Still, in the MP game I'm playing that'll really save my rear end against an agressive but backward Japanese player.
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Jan 6, 2014 08:37
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KKKlean Energy posted:Yeah. That saved my rear end in a run of the Africa scenario - one of my cities was poised to be over-run by hordes of enemies before my reinforcements could arrive, but I had an assload of cash, so I bought like 10 landschnects in a single turn. They got slaughtered, but they bogged down the enemy long enough for my army to come to the rescue. I love the landschnect mechanic. It seems like Landsneckts would stop being useful late-game, but nope. I just did my first no-wonder King game. Continents Plus, playing as Siam. Who's on my continent? Assyria, Denmark and the Mongols. The next continent over had Russia, China, and a few less-violent folks who quickly got their asses beat. I founded Buddhism, took Swords to Plowshares, then spread the love all over the world. Didn't get DoW'd once. Assyria tried to strongarm me with demands/denouncement at one point and everybody dogpiled them. Genghis and Harald bros for life. 
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Jan 6, 2014 16:42
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I did that against Panzers one time. It was great: just churning out endless waves of poofy-shouldered halberd guys to keep the tanks busy until reinforcements arrived, like lovely rodeo clowns with pointy sticks. A human player would've just fallen back and found another way around/raided caravans to cut off the gold supply, but AI Bismark decided he was going to go in a straight line and dammit that guy stays the course. I hope the inevitable Civilization VI has AI that can cope with battle tactics. At the moment the tactics seem to come down to "just send every unit, all of them, a whole lot of them" with no real regard to what works and doesn't. They're all the time staying the course.
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Jan 6, 2014 18:41
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Is there a good WWII in Europe mod?
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Jan 6, 2014 21:22
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Since this game snowballs so hard I'm rapid-firing a bunch of starts and playing the first 100 turns to see how I do. Right now I'm playing as Neb and trying to build up a scientific advantage. It still seems like Liberty is the better opener because I just can't get Settlers and Workers out fast enough before all the good land is gone. The other civs spawn like 14 tiles away from me and rush Settlers, it's ridiculous. City territory maxes out at 4 hexes, right? and you generally want to place your cities so that their max territories do not overlap I'm assuming.
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Jan 7, 2014 02:37
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Mr Dog posted:Since this game snowballs so hard I'm rapid-firing a bunch of starts and playing the first 100 turns to see how I do. Right now I'm playing as Neb and trying to build up a scientific advantage. Cities will eventually grab 5 tiles out from the city center. Liberty might seem better but it really isn't if you're sticking to the optimal 4 cities with a super sized capital (which as many have said is just unbeatable). You get a huge culture boost early game from tradition as well as a food boost. Finding the right time to train a settler can be tricky. You usually want to start one when your next pop won't be coming for about the number of turns it takes to train one. After that, you might find yourself churning them out rapid fire. The two basic requirements for settler training are the aforementioned population growth and having enough territory explored nearby that you're reasonably confident you've found a good spot. 100 turns for your 4th city is still very aggressive and you will feel like you're making a sacrifice when you train those settlers. The skill is deciding when to make it.
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Jan 7, 2014 02:41
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City limits eventually extend up to five tiles from the centre, and I'm sure I've seen them occasionally go further in order to grab a strategic resource or the like. The WORKABLE city limits only extend 3 tiles. Personally, I'm super careful about avoiding overlaps, but I only play at King; the general belief is that it's rare for a city to work EVERY tile in its limits, and moderate overlaps are totally acceptable. Also, while generally you don't have to worry about citizen management, it can be vital in the early game when training a settler. Growth absolutely stops when you do so, which means you can manually move all your citizens from food-tiles to production ones. (Having a food surplus does provide a bonus to settler production, but this can be outweighed by the extra hammers you get from planning things out).
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Jan 7, 2014 02:55
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Actually, when building settlers, you need three points of food to turn into one hammer. Which is a bizarre mechanic. By typical early game strategy is to rapid grow to size 4-5 off as many food tiles as possible, then immediately switch to max production and pump out 2 settlers or so. This means you're going to lack early game production. So all I can afford before my first settler is a scout or two, then one of either a granary or a shrine, then a worker, then a warrior/archer, before starting my settler. Depending on hut luck, if I get a culture ruin, I'll pick the +2 food one and delay my first settler for an extra pop growth (to maybe size 5). If I get a pop ruin, then I'll skip the granary and go for a worker. If there's a nearby city state that I'm not interested in doing early quests for, I'll steal their worker and skip building mine. I find that even with fairly close neighbours on Immortal, I can get my settlers out soon enough to stake out my sphere of influence.
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Jan 7, 2014 03:13
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StashAugustine posted:I really wish it scaled- Swiss mercs-Landschnects-Foreign Legion-Soldiers of Fortune or something like that. Still, in the MP game I'm playing that'll really save my rear end against an agressive but backward Japanese player. I like this idea--instead of Foreign Legions being a Freedom thing? Anyway, Liberty I find is more acceptable if your plan is going to be involving conquest--Grab land fast, connect it with roads for the empire-wide happy bonus, kill enemies and add their capitals to your empire.
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Jan 7, 2014 03:19
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StashAugustine posted:I really wish it scaled- Swiss mercs-Landschnects-Foreign Legion-Soldiers of Fortune or something like that. Still, in the MP game I'm playing that'll really save my rear end against an agressive but backward Japanese player. That'd be great. It'd make Commerce much more attractive, and it seems like it could use that.
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Jan 7, 2014 03:46
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I’m okay with landsknechts being forever purchasable because sometimes it’s nice to be able to buy the cheapest possible unit for zone of control even if it dies in a turn. They also upgrade to lancers, which are the best city‐taking units this side of tanks. Better than landships or mechanized infantry, even.
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Jan 7, 2014 03:57
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I've never in Civ V's entire history ever heard anyone mention "it upgrades into lancers" as a positive trait until now. Lancers can deal okay damage to cities I guess, but in reality the best city takers are the fastest units. They can stay as far away from battle as possible until your ranged units reduce the city down to 0hp and they run in for the kill. Lancers aren't any better at this than horsemen, knights, etc.
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Jan 7, 2014 04:21
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Don’t lancers get five movement points to cavalry’s four? Whatever the case, they’re no slower. That’s my point. You don’t surround the city with lancers, you blow it to kingdom come with artillery or bombers and rush in with the lancer to take it.
Platystemon fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 04:35
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Platystemon posted:Don’t lancers get five movement points to cavalry’s four? Whatever the case, they’re no slower. That’s my point. You don’t surround the city with lancers, you blow it to kingdom come with artillery or bombers rush in with the lancer to take it. Nope, 4 movement. Same as most other mobile units. The problem with lancers is that they just aren't really all that special. They specialize in anti-knight combat but are average at most other things and it's not like you see tons of knights. The real killer is that they only upgrade into Gunships, meaning you're stuck with them for a long time where they can't do anything for you. I'd rather have cavalry/landships/etc who can actually fight in a pinch.
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Jan 7, 2014 04:40
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Lancers are arguably worse than the Pikemen you're likely to be getting them from. Same anti-mounted bonus except you can't fortify and the unit you're probably fighting, more pikemen, gets to actually use it's bonus vs. mounted. I usually don't bother upgrading unless I'm looking to inflate my military score.
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Jan 7, 2014 05:00
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Speedball posted:I like this idea--instead of Foreign Legions being a Freedom thing? Yeah, I like the idea of Volunteer Army but it's a little weird that the units you get from it are designed to be used on offense.
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Jan 7, 2014 05:21
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^ The Foreign Legion bonus is kind of an artifact from previous versions so I get the why of it, but yeah it's totally weird.Speedball posted:Anyway, Liberty I find is more acceptable if your plan is going to be involving conquest--Grab land fast, connect it with roads for the empire-wide happy bonus, kill enemies and add their capitals to your empire. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 06:36
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Liberty works OK if you are planning on a maritime empire that will start coming out of its cocoon in the Medieval era. Which is fine if you start in the Classical or Medieval eras, but pretty skeezy if you start in Ancient.
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Jan 7, 2014 06:38
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So I hear that citizens only work up to 3 tiles from a country. What is the pointof having boarders bigger than 3 tiles away from your city? Also, how far away should I be building one city from another, and how will that affect my overall acquisition of things? I know that having more cities affects policies but I have no idea what I need to do to blow everyone out of the water in terms of tech research.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:18
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Philosopher King posted:So I hear that citizens only work up to 3 tiles from a country. What is the pointof having boarders bigger than 3 tiles away from your city? You get luxuries and other resources, like oil, that are outside a city's workable border.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:20
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Philosopher King posted:So I hear that citizens only work up to 3 tiles from a country. What is the pointof having boarders bigger than 3 tiles away from your city? Great Generals have the same effect, but they can infinitely extend your borders across land. Speaking of, Protip: never, ever settle a city for a resource you can get from natural border expansion or Great Generals. Cities just aren't worth it any more.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:21
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But if the tile is 4 tiles away from the main city, not its borders, it wont be worked right?
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Jan 7, 2014 20:32
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Philosopher King posted:But if the tile is 4 tiles away from the main city, not its borders, it wont be worked right? Correct. So build your cities so they get the best tiles within 3 tiles of them.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:33
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Gort posted:Correct. So build your cities so they get the best tiles within 3 tiles of them. So then how far away should I build my other cities and how many cities overall is ideal? And what is the best way to go about winning if I'm going for space race victory? Am I completely screwed if someone else is going for domination?
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Jan 7, 2014 20:37
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Philosopher King posted:But if the tile is 4 tiles away from the main city, not its borders, it wont be worked right? Strategic resources, and I think luxuries as well, are added to your national total even if they are outside you cities' reach as long as you improve the tile.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:45
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Philosopher King posted:So then how far away should I build my other cities and how many cities overall is ideal? And what is the best way to go about winning if I'm going for space race victory? Am I completely screwed if someone else is going for domination? Build your cities so their "work zones" don't overlap if possible, and you're going for four cities. The best way to go about winning is to go Tradition, then Rationalism. You are in no way completely screwed if someone is going for domination.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:48
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Philosopher King posted:So then how far away should I build my other cities and how many cities overall is ideal? And what is the best way to go about winning if I'm going for space race victory? Am I completely screwed if someone else is going for domination? If someone else is going domination, just don't get your poo poo conquered by them. You have the advantage of tech on your side, presumably. It's not super important to place your cities at a certain distance from each other. It will take a very long time for them to grow to the 3rd ring of tiles, unless there are luxuries or whatever, your borders will snake to to those. The most important thing is that your cities can quickly grow to be useful within 50 turns or so, not if they could be extremely powerful 200 turns in the future. Unless you're playing <King, then you can create beautiful kingdoms without a care, really.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:50
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