Geeky Star Wars Loser Thread Episode VII: Attack of the bugnest orgies

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Geeky Star Wars Loser Thread Episode VII: Attack of the bugnest orgies

«‹›696 »

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Somebody's literally trying to argue the Empire doesn't even have 1000 ships based on a single line in ANH, but that's still not as bad as whatever the poo poo Hbomberguy or whoever's pulling where apparently Dooku was a good guy in AOTC and ROTS.

# ? Jan 6, 2014 08:30

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 12:12

Jedi Knight Luigi: Jul 13, 2009

Are you talking about theforce.net

# ? Jan 6, 2014 09:27

Animal Friend: Sep 7, 2011

It's the same lame arguments you'd find on force.net, only the usual horse poo poo is lathered in pretentious philosophical arguments they only half understand. Also lots of "the Emperor was right" stuff. Highlight being Hbomberguy saying he's scared by people compare who The Emperor to Hitler or the Empire at large to the Nazis because Hitler wasn't totally evil and Mein Kampf is a good read or some poo poo.

EDIT:

Hbomberguy posted:

I actually take quite a bit of offense to comparing the emperor to Adolf Hitler. A lot of people interpret the Emperor as a definitely-evil manifestation of a magical force, an 'embodiment' of evil. Arguably that's the whole point of Star Wars, to explore the idea of magical good and magical evil and how that lines up with 'humanity'.

If you compare the Emperor to Hitler, you terrify and scare me. Hitler, for all his monstrous behaviour, offers humanity an important lesson for how we treat each other and the world outside of us. Hitler was as much a product of Then-Germany as Nazi-Germany was of Hitler. He was ultimately one tiny man in the wheels of history and it takes more than one person to kill millions of Jews. One of the most important things you could possibly learn from that period in the world is that when you create an Other who is Objectively Evil and is responsible for disturbing the peace, which you can then restore by, say, killing or subjugating them, you open yourself up to monstrous beliefs and actions. If you're going to pull a Godwin and make this comparison, you're making the same ideological mistake Germany did.

and

Hbomberguy posted:

I like to bring up how interesting Mein Kampf is in my Uni classes, and wait just long enough before I qualify that statement, and see the looks on people's faces.

Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 6, 2014

# ? Jan 6, 2014 15:44

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

That appears to be the exact opposite of what that person is saying, just from the things you posted. He is saying that Hitler was not a magic space wizard and while he did terrible things those things were born from factors more complex and involved than He Was Evil which is pretty objectively true.

The other thing he posted, just from the context of what you posted, is him going "Hey, this book provides valuable insight into how someone like Hitler thinks and acts" with a side of trolling, not "Boy, this is a jolly good book full of right ideas."

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 6, 2014

# ? Jan 6, 2014 16:27

Animal Friend: Sep 7, 2011

For more context, he was previously arguing that nobody had a right to get rid of Palpatine because he was legally elected chancellor.
He said the Jedi in Revenge of the Sith were the real dictators because they were attempting to overthrow a democracy without answering to any power but themselves. People then said something along the lines of "Hitler was also elected, would it be wrong for people to have tried to kill him" causing him to flip out over it. He's not reacting to comparing Hitler and the Nazi's to a fictional character, it's the other way around.

The uniforms of the Imperial officers and the Empire being a supremest/racist dictatorship? A chancellor gaining emergency powers and taking over? Not related.

# ? Jan 6, 2014 18:06

redshirt: Aug 11, 2007

Are the nerds in the Star Wars book thread making fun of the nerds in the Star Wars movie thread? Really?

We're all Star Wars nerds here. No need to SW-shame.

For the record I really enjoy the CineD thread, and this one too.

# ? Jan 6, 2014 18:25

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

ImpAtom posted:

The other thing he posted, just from the context of what you posted, is him going "Hey, this book provides valuable insight into how someone like Hitler thinks and acts" with a side of trolling, not "Boy, this is a jolly good book full of right ideas."

Just from his post about his Uni class, it sounds like he's in that rebellious stage where he automatically takes contrarian positions to common perceptions just to sound extra :smug:

What's next? Is he going to argue that the Civil War wasn't about slavery it was about State's rights?

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jan 6, 2014

# ? Jan 6, 2014 19:48

thrawn527: Mar 27, 2004; Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Both threads are fun, infuriating, and ridiculous in their own ways. Let's try not to combine the threads by posting out of context statements from one in the other. Lord knows how terrible some posts here might look out of context.

# ? Jan 6, 2014 23:26

Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

api call girl posted:

Somebody's literally trying to argue the Empire doesn't even have 1000 ships based on a single line in ANH

Well, the official line is that the Empire only has 25,000 star destroyers, which I personally don't think is much better. (I think this originated from either Zahn directly, or the Thrawn Trilogy sourcebooks - in any case, one of the few things I don't like about Zahn is that he is definitely a minimalist when it comes to numbers of ships and military forces.)

Carnaticum posted:

He said the Jedi in Revenge of the Sith were the real dictators because they were attempting to overthrow a democracy without answering to any power but themselves. People then said something along the lines of "Hitler was also elected, would it be wrong for people to have tried to kill him" causing him to flip out over it. He's not reacting to comparing Hitler and the Nazi's to a fictional character, it's the other way around.

...Karen Traviss, is that you?

# ? Jan 7, 2014 04:23

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Chairman Capone posted:

Well, the official line is that the Empire only has 25,000 star destroyers, which I personally don't think is much better. (I think this originated from either Zahn directly, or the Thrawn Trilogy sourcebooks - in any case, one of the few things I don't like about Zahn is that he is definitely a minimalist when it comes to numbers of ships and military forces.)

It was actually probably from George Lucas circa 1980s. They at least put some thought into the justification around there being only 25000 ISD (it's the top of the line capital ship, there's dozens of smaller capital ships for every ISD, you only ever even need one of them to glass an entire typical unshielded planet, etc.).

Anyway, that's still better than "quadrillions".

# ? Jan 7, 2014 09:06

Angry Salami: Jul 27, 2013; Don't trust the skull.

I don't think Zahn had that much freedom when it came to details about ships or militaries - I'm pretty sure he's said he had to follow fairly closely what had already been established by the West End Games RPG when he was writing.

# ? Jan 7, 2014 14:43

LightWarden: Mar 18, 2007; Lander county's safe as heaven,
despite all the strife and boilin',
Tin Star,
Oh how she's an icon of the eastern west,
But now the time has come to end our song,
of the Tin Star, the Tin Star!

West End Games has had some fantastic misfires that wound up as canon for decades. Take the Hapans. While a hilarious source of comedy for many reasons, one of the bits I remember is how it introduced the Hapan turbolaser technology. Take the description of Hapan Battle Dragons from their first appearance:

The Courtship of Princess Leia posted:

"Launch all fighters!" Isolder ordered. "Knock out that Super Star Destroyer at the docks along with anything else you can get. I want this to be messy!" The Song of War's ion cannons opened fire as torpedoes screamed from their launch tubes. Though the Imperial Star Destroyers were three times the size and more heavily armed than a Hapan Battle Dragon, the Imperials had designed their ships using old-fashioned stationary gun emplacements. After a blaster cannon or ion cannon fired, it took several milliseconds for the cannon's giant capacitors to recharge. The net effect was that the gun was stuck idle 80 percent of the time.

Not so with the Hapan Battle Dragon. Because the Battle Dragons were designed as huge saucers and the gun emplacements rotated rapidly around the rim of the saucer, idle guns moved on to recharge while fresh guns swung into place.

Both Star Destroyers immediately retreated from the onslaught. Isolder glanced momentarily at Luke's back as the Jedi left the control deck. Though the Hapan Battle Dragon was a fearsome opponent, it would be no match for Star Destroyers once their fighters scrambled. The fighters would be able to penetrate the shielding and knock out the rotating gun emplacements after they idled. Isolder's own fighters could keep Zsinj's war birds at bay for a time, but the Hapans couldn't hold them off indefinitely.

Fewer guns, but faster rate of fire to keep up. Alright, makes sense.

Unfortunately, this was what was written in Cracken's Threat Dossier:

Cracken's Threat Dossier posted:

The Hapans have compensated for their antiquated turbolaser technology by designing a large-scale rotation system which allows the Battle Dragon to fire on par with standard Imperial vessels. When one turbolaser fires, it is instantly whisked away and replaced with the next, giving the spent turbolaser time to recharge at its normal rate; NRI estimates that Hapan turbolasers have only one-third the capacity of comparable Imperial weaponry.

This is treated as canon in Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels and everything afterwards, and becomes a plot point in the NJO books where the New Republic gives Hapans modern turbolaser technology somewhere around the point where their fleet gets blown up by Centerpoint station. Somehow fixing this had never occurred to them in the past thirty years or so, despite the fact that when the Hapans first showed up they roll in with several dozen Star Destroyers in tow which they captured from the Empire (Hapans love ion cannons). Despite having access to literally thousands of potentially functioning Imperial turbolasers, apparently they never figured that particular problem out.

# ? Jan 7, 2014 18:19

Calax: Oct 5, 2011

LightWarden posted:

West End Games has had some fantastic misfires that wound up as canon for decades. Take the Hapans. While a hilarious source of comedy for many reasons, one of the bits I remember is how it introduced the Hapan turbolaser technology. Take the description of Hapan Battle Dragons from their first appearance:

Fewer guns, but faster rate of fire to keep up. Alright, makes sense.

Unfortunately, this was what was written in Cracken's Threat Dossier:

This is treated as canon in Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels and everything afterwards, and becomes a plot point in the NJO books where the New Republic gives Hapans modern turbolaser technology somewhere around the point where their fleet gets blown up by Centerpoint station. Somehow fixing this had never occurred to them in the past thirty years or so, despite the fact that when the Hapans first showed up they roll in with several dozen Star Destroyers in tow which they captured from the Empire (Hapans love ion cannons). Despite having access to literally thousands of potentially functioning Imperial turbolasers, apparently they never figured that particular problem out.

This is Star Wars.

R&D is something only Wizards are allowed to do.

# ? Jan 7, 2014 20:43

a retard: Jan 7, 2013; by Lowtax

The Expanded Universe is now on the same level of canon as the films.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 03:11

surf rock: Aug 12, 2007; We need more women in STEM, and by that, I mean skateboarding, television, esports, and magic.

a retard posted:

The Expanded Universe is now on the same level of canon as the films.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Are they saying that Thrawn et al are canon, or that future EU projects are canon? In other words, is this retroactive?

# ? Jan 8, 2014 03:26

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

They're saying to put out hits on Troy Denning now, instead of when it's too late.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 03:41

Tumblr of scotch: Mar 13, 2006; Please, don't be my neighbor.

This makes the Wraith books on par with the movies. I'm okay with this.

This makes bug orgies on par with the movies. I'm less okay with this.

This makes Dark Greetings on par with the movies and I'm okayest of all with this.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 03:45

Rochallor: Apr 23, 2010; ふっっっっっっっっっっっっｃｋ

I've never really understood the obsession over what level of canon something is except from the business and writing perspective of knowing when it's okay to ignore or rewrite something. The books and the comics still exist. The worst that can happen is that some plotlines get abandoned, and that happens in all sorts of cases.

Recently an episode of Doctor Who contained a huge shoutout to a series of independently produced audio dramas that led to a lot of people claiming that all such dramas were now canon. But Doctor Who has time travel as a central conceit of the show, so if something contradicts something else it's just been overwritten. I don't see any need for a Doctor Who canon, but a Star Wars canon sort of makes sense, just so you're not wondering if that Trix Rabbit guy is going to team up with Robot Dark Maul to attack Mount Yoda.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 04:08

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

Flagrant Abuse posted:

This makes the Wraith books on par with the movies. I'm okay with this.

This makes bug orgies on par with the movies. I'm less okay with this.

This makes Dark Greetings on par with the movies and I'm okayest of all with this.

Roger, roger.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 04:11

Arschlochkind: Mar 29, 2010

Rochallor posted:

a Star Wars canon sort of makes sense, just so you're not wondering if that Trix Rabbit guy is going to team up with Robot Dark Maul to attack Mount Yoda.

I'm down, as long as they use their mastery of Ter�s K�si to recover the glove of Darth Vader from the Jedi prince (who has kidnapped the Solo twins) to find the Death Star plans hidden within just in time for Hoorse Pilot* to destroy the Darksaber and kill the cloned Palpatine once and for all�.

* he's an evil clone
� it is not once and for all

But most importantly

Flagrant Abuse posted:

This makes Dark Greetings on par with the movies and I'm okayest of all with this.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 05:24

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

Hang on, the canon story says "going forward". There's no indication that existing EU stories have been promoted, is there? Just that any new stories, ie ones produced under Disney's auspices, will all have the same weight. At least, that's how I read that.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 06:35

Pththya-lyi: Nov 8, 2009; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Arschlochkind posted:

Hoorse Pilot

Runt

# ? Jan 8, 2014 07:46

jivjov: Sep 13, 2007; But how does it taste? Yummy!; Dinosaur Gum

Internally at Lucas Licensing/Lucasfilm, the continuity "hierarchy" was never really a hierarchy to begin with; it was intended as just a classification system.

Nathan Butler (The guy who made that amazing Star Wars Timeline Gold, and has also had a writing gig for a Star Wars comic) had a bit of a discussion with Leland Chee on the topic, and I'll just drop a Facebook post he made here:

Nathan P Butler's Facebook posted:

For Star Wars fans who have been following Leland Chee's Twitter comments that have caused a stir today, here's some clarification from the horse's mouth, Chee himself:

Having asked via email about the Twitter comments about the Story Group, Leland Chee asked that I post what I sent to the Keeper of the Holocron Facebook page so that he could address it publicly. He has now replied. The gist is that the big new thing is that the Story Group now gets to be involved with the production of films and TV series, not just what we'd now call "Expanded Universe" stories. That makes sense, now that Lucas is no longer involved.

If curious, here's my full post to him, followed by his full response:

ORIGINAL POST TO LELAND CHEE FROM NPB:

After the Twitter comments recently, there�s a lot of buzz (some of it possibly accurate, some very likely not) about the nature of the Story Group concept, what it means at the moment for stories in the saga, etc. I wanted to see if I�m understanding something correctly:

From what I understand, the idea has been, since 1991 (and especially since the Holocron began being developed in 2000), to give Star Wars one unified continuity as much as possible, regardless of what media form it takes. That has not meant that stories could not be told outside of it, but those non-continuity stories (Infinities: A New Hope, Sergio Stomps Star Wars, etc.) have been few and far between in relation to the massive amount of in-continuity stories out there. Even when new films and TV series have been made that have created inconsistencies, the goal has been to keep stories in-continuity as much as possible, hence sometimes having retcons appear to smooth out those inconsistencies. However, while that is the goal, sometimes contradictions emerge, most often between something Lucas wanted to pursue when compared to something previously established by a licensee�s story. As such, the Holocron was designed essentially as a database to track elements of stories (rather than entire stories) and designate information by its source, using the G/T/C/S/N canon designations to keep track of what ideas come from Lucas and should take precedent, which were in-continuity from one licensee or another, and which were definitely not to be adhered to because they were deemed �out� or part of a story that was made to be outside of continuity, such as in the case of Vader�s white armor in Infinities: ROTJ.

That being said, what I think I�m understanding correctly with regard to the Story Group is that, with Lucas no longer directly producing Star Wars content, you will act in a way that is similar to the LucasBooks concept or any other time that Star Wars licensees have been coordinated across media to keep continuity as much as possible as stories are produced. That is not to say that designations are no longer necessary internally so that, say, Angry Birds Star Wars or LEGO Star Wars TV specials cannot be allowed to affect a regular in-continuity story, nor is that to say that non-continuity stories can�t exist, but rather just that the goal is, like before, to keep things unified as much as possible.

If I�m understanding that correctly then, nothing has really changed except for Lucas stepping out of the picture. Continuity is still to be tracked in-house, designations are still more for internal than external use, and the idea remains one of coordinating to have as close to a single continuity between product lines as possible.

Is that correct? It seems people are making this out as if something drastic has changed with regard to continuity, the Holocron, etc., but I�m just not seeing what huge, saga-reshaping thing is happening here, at least insofar as the approach to inclusion goes.

ORIGINAL RESPONSE FROM LELAND CHEE TO NPB:

The big change is that Story Group is involved in both television and film production, in addition to all other aspects of Star Wars storytelling. Pablo and I talked about this back in August at Celebration Europe. As to the role of the Holocron's canon field, I'd commented on the ForceCast and elsewhere that in practice, this field was used more simply as a classification system rather than a system of hierarchy.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 07:51

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

That's pretty interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Still, even if they don't want it to use it as a hierarchy per say, there clearly is one, if only broadly. Dark Horse (and by this time next year, Marvel) can't write a story that makes it so Wedge blew up the first Death Star, because Luke pulled the trigger on film and everyone saw it. But if JJ and company go stomping all over the X-Wing novels in Episode VII by saying that Wedge died a week after the Battle of Endor, what we see on film is what sticks, and nothing that Mike Stackpole or anyone else wrote before that matters one drat bit.

It will be interesting to see how much or little of the EU gets mentioned in the new movies. Even with the Story Group involved in the films now, I kind of doubt they'll be in a position to gainsay JJ if he decides he wants to wreck 30 years of EU.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 09:29

BigRed0427: Mar 23, 2007; There's no one I'd rather be than me.

I just got the first two Omnibus editions of Knights Of The Old Republic, figure I get these now before the price shoots up when Dark Horse's deal expires. I finished the story line where Zayne and company try and rescue the Jedi from the Mandalorians and so far I like it. My favorite aspect so far is that our main villains are...well idiots. You would think They would know better and not flip the gently caress out when they see what they saw.

My only fanboy wish is that we see Meetra Surik. That is one character that I must have more of. I heard she is in the Revan book but I heard that sucked.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 06:53

Tumblr of scotch: Mar 13, 2006; Please, don't be my neighbor.

BigRed0427 posted:

My only fanboy wish is that we see Meetra Surik. That is one character that I must have more of. I heard she is in the Revan book but I heard that sucked.

Not only that, but it's by the same guy who wrote the original KotOR, so you can probably guess how heroic of a death he gave her.

She went out like a punk because Karpyshyn can't stand being upstaged.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 07:02

Mandatory Assembly: May 25, 2008; it's time to get juche; Lipstick Apathy

Is there a good behind-the-scenes book that talks about the making of the prequel trilogy? I'm not interested in an official Lucasfilm hagiography -- I want the real poo poo. Does that exist?

# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:15

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

redshirt posted:

Are the nerds in the Star Wars book thread making fun of the nerds in the Star Wars movie thread? Really?

We're all Star Wars nerds here. No need to SW-shame.

For the record I really enjoy the CineD thread, and this one too.

When they are actually arguing that the prequels were good then yeah they deserve to be made fun of

fake edit: also supermechagodzilla is the worst poster on the forums

BigRed0427 posted:

My only fanboy wish is that we see Meetra Surik. That is one character that I must have more of. I heard she is in the Revan book but I heard that sucked.

I wish they had kept calling her the Exile because Meetra Surik is a dumbass name (I am aware I'm talking about the Star Wars EU)

Farecoal fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 11, 2014

# ? Jan 10, 2014 23:59

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Farecoal posted:

I wish they had kept calling her the Exile because Meetra Surik is a dumbass name (I am aware I'm talking about the Star Wars EU)

Here's fun: what are the best and worst EU names?

# ? Jan 11, 2014 00:17

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

Metal Loaf posted:

Here's fun: what are the best and worst EU names?

Elan Sleazebaggano

# ? Jan 11, 2014 00:22

Jedi Knight Luigi: Jul 13, 2009

Metal Loaf posted:

Here's fun: what are the best and worst EU names?

worst: Jacen

honorable mention: Ysanne Isard. How the hell do you pronounce that?

Best is probably Nom Anor. Or Horton Salm.

# ? Jan 11, 2014 00:30

Tumblr of scotch: Mar 13, 2006; Please, don't be my neighbor.

You are all forgetting about Teh Roxxor.

# ? Jan 11, 2014 00:41

jivjov: Sep 13, 2007; But how does it taste? Yummy!; Dinosaur Gum

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

honorable mention: Ysanne Isard. How the hell do you pronounce that?

Well, "Isard" is phoetically similar to "Ice Heart" (Or one would assume so, given that was a derogatory nickname for her), so I presume its Eye-sard. Ysanne is a bit trickier, but I have always gone with Ee-san

# ? Jan 11, 2014 01:02

Arschlochkind: Mar 29, 2010

jivjov posted:

Well, "Isard" is phoetically similar to "Ice Heart" (Or one would assume so, given that was a derogatory nickname for her), so I presume its Eye-sard. Ysanne is a bit trickier, but I have always gone with Ee-san

Yeah you'd think so about Isard, but I listened to part of the audiobook for 'Dark Lord' on Youtube and when Armand Isard is mentioned, Jonathan Davis blends the syllables together a lot more than I expected. I know that's not definitive, but it's not the first time I've heard a Star Wars name spoken and gone "Wait, huh?"

Also one of the worst to me has always been Dexter Jettster. Sith names have also gotten worse and worse since the prequels came out. We went from Vader to Maul to Nihilus to Andeddu. Here, let me help: Darth Evil Badman. Darth Nana'punch. Darth Cobra Commander.

Cad Bane is a pretty terrible name too.

# ? Jan 11, 2014 02:14

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

Arschlochkind posted:

We went from Vader to Maul to Nihilus to Andeddu.

I think there's something wrong here because those are all kickass names. Now Darth Malgus on the other hand

# ? Jan 11, 2014 02:32

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Here's one: Darth Millennial.

His master, Darth Baby-Boomer, doesn't have a Wookieepedia page.

# ? Jan 11, 2014 02:40

cptn_dr: Sep 7, 2011; Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies

I will never not think Darth Wyrrlok is the dumbest sith name.

# ? Jan 11, 2014 02:42

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

cptn_dr posted:

I will never not think Darth Wyrrlok is the dumbest sith name.

I thought that guy would be a Wookiee when I first read that name. Why has there never been a Wookiee Sith

# ? Jan 11, 2014 02:43

cptn_dr: Sep 7, 2011; Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies

Farecoal posted:

I thought that guy would be a Wookiee when I first read that name. Why has there never been a Wookiee Sith

Because most EU writers wouldn't know a good idea if it strangled them.

# ? Jan 11, 2014 02:46

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 12:12

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

cptn_dr posted:

Because most EU writers wouldn't know a good idea if it strangled them.

Obsidian, though :allears:

# ? Jan 11, 2014 02:50

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Geeky Star Wars Loser Thread Episode VII: Attack of the bugnest orgies

«‹›696 »