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Is the version of the goon-made Slayer in the OP the most recent version? One of my players is using the class and I seem to recall an update being posted for it at some point.
MagnesiumB fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jan 7, 2014 |
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Jan 7, 2014 19:28
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Looks like it to me, it's got the (INT) designation for the moves that roll+INT which the old version didn't.
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Jan 7, 2014 19:42
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:I would make the downsides to him failing hack and slash rolls do nasty things to him all the time. Throw him across the room, make the force of his attack collapse the floor, trip him, make him lose grip on his weapon.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:40
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MagnesiumB posted:Is the version of the goon-made Slayer in the OP the most recent version? One of my players is using the class and I seem to recall an update being posted for it at some point. I'm fairly certain Boing posted a semi-updated version of the Slayer that took out stuff like Hedge Mage and Mutagenic Metastasis and added some other things that I don't remember. I don't have a link to it handy, though, so hopefully someone will post it soon.
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Jan 7, 2014 20:42
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Boing posted:This is where I got to, but after some time of trying to finish the playbook I still couldn't think of the last 2-3 moves to slot into it. I think it's better than the version that's currently linked in the OP, but it's still incomplete. Sorry, I'm terrible. Latest version, click Boing's profile for a hopefully complete version 2.0 from earlier. Mightbe the one in the OP. We should definitely finish the updated version, it's one of my favourites and is a shame to see unfinished!
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Jan 7, 2014 21:39
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So today I was productive, and I finished the Winter and Dragon Mage playbooks. You can check out a preview of the finished playbooks here. I am trying out a different method of making my previews. Hopefully it's even more maddening than just seeing the move titles was. As soon as I finish the cover art I am working on, I'll post these for sale on DTRPG.
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Jan 7, 2014 21:45
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PerniciousKnid posted:My favorite thing about Dungeon World is that the solution to almost all problems is "PUNISH THEIR HUBRIS!" and it actually makes sense and doesn't just feel like GM dickery.
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Jan 7, 2014 22:02
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gnome7 posted:So today I was productive, and I finished the Winter and Dragon Mage playbooks. You can check out a preview of the finished playbooks here. Aside from Dragon, Winter, and Clock, are there any other of the specialized mages done / significantly in progress?
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Jan 7, 2014 23:19
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Handgun Phonics posted:Aside from Dragon, Winter, and Clock, are there any other of the specialized mages done / significantly in progress? I have a good bit of progress on Star (who will be the counterpart to Clock and make Mages of Time and Space) and Mask, who has no good pairing. I had a good start on Twilight, but I do not like where it was going and it needs a rethinking from the ground up. That is all I currently have lined up, but I am suddenly unemployed so working on more would not be out of the question. Do you have one you wanted to see?
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Jan 7, 2014 23:22
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gnome7 posted:I have a good bit of progress on Star (who will be the counterpart to Clock and make Mages of Time and Space) and Mask, who has no good pairing. I had a good start on Twilight, but I do not like where it was going and it needs a rethinking from the ground up. That is all I currently have lined up, but I am suddenly unemployed so working on more would not be out of the question. Do you have one you wanted to see? Not in specific, I've just liked seeing how each version has a different core system to their magic. Especially with the variation in the stats they use, it ends up with a mage to suit all the major party roles (and makes all-caster parties much more interesting).
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Jan 8, 2014 00:17
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:Punishing hubris is the best thing about being a GM, in any game.
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Jan 8, 2014 00:52
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gnome7 posted:So today I was productive, and I finished the Winter and Dragon Mage playbooks. You can check out a preview of the finished playbooks here. Awesome, a friend of mine just started another game so I can take Winter Mage for a spin. I'll leave Dragon Mage to somebody else to test out, because getting to play somebody who gets mechanically rewarded for being emotionally distant is too interesting to pass up. This isn't super clear, but can you use Winter Wonderland without any snow or ice around?
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Jan 8, 2014 03:29
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EscortMission posted:Awesome, a friend of mine just started another game so I can take Winter Mage for a spin. I'll leave Dragon Mage to somebody else to test out, because getting to play somebody who gets mechanically rewarded for being emotionally distant is too interesting to pass up. I hadn't even considered that question! I will clarify it to "yes, you do," and include the part about making snow on demand with that move instead of December's Armor. Fun fact, you could get around spending Chill to finish a structure immediately by teaming up with a Clock Mage and Fast Forwarding through the downtime. Handgun Phonics posted:Not in specific, I've just liked seeing how each version has a different core system to their magic. Especially with the variation in the stats they use, it ends up with a mage to suit all the major party roles (and makes all-caster parties much more interesting). Yeah, I was initially planning to do only 6 Mage rewrites because I enjoy symmetry too much. Each one will have a different MP mechanic, and each one is focused on a different stat. Star and Mask are WIS and CHA, respectively. Clock is INT, Dragon STR, and Winter is CON. DEX will probably be Twilight but we will see if I do an overhaul or try something else. We will see. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 05:09
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I've done some with on the Infernal if anyone's interested. It's nowhere near done but I'd appreciate some comments on the moves I've completed!gnome7 posted:I have a good bit of progress on Star (who will be the counterpart to Clock and make Mages of Time and Space) and Mask, who has no good pairing. I had a good start on Twilight, but I do not like where it was going and it needs a rethinking from the ground up. That is all I currently have lined up, but I am suddenly unemployed so working on more would not be out of the question. Do you have one you wanted to see? I know you asked him but I'd love to see the Tower and the Abyss. Anyway, here's some feedback on the Winter Mage: I feel like Snow's way better than the other backgrounds - being able to make any kind of structure pretty much anywhere instantly and for free is incredible. I'd either keep the cost for building things instantly or raise the cost to make it snow back up to 1 Chill - probably the former. December's Armour is underwhelming. Spending Chill to reduce damage 1-for-1 just isn't worth it when you consider the HP cost of refreshing your Chill - I might end up taking more damage than I prevented! The ice armour from Freeze is way better, even taking into account its drawbacks. When it says I'm immune to cold, does that mean I'm immune to environmental cold or to all sources of cold-based harm? You should also move the bit about spending 2 Chill to make it snow down to Winter Wonderland. Speaking of which, can I make it snow under cover or do I have to be under the open sky? I also feel like the Chill mechanics have been crammed in there a bit. Consider making a separate move for that. I think Winter Wonderland needs an upward limit on the size of structures it can produce instantly - the size of a house, maybe. Otherwise you'll have people running around making terrible ice planets and continent-sized statues of themselves - that's great, but you don't want it happening all the time. Consider including a sliding scale of Chill spent to size of structure, or maybe a small Ritual-style mechanic for bigger structures. EscortMission's question on whether or not you need any snow to be present is also important. How does freezing my arm increase its range to close? I'm really not certain here, but I feel like it needs some benefit beyond the +1 armour - maybe some kind of freezing touch? That could work on Winter's Warrior too - the straight +2 damage is a bit bland on its own. Frozen legs is solid enough as is. I think you should revise the ongoing penalty on ice armour to "-1 ongoing to physical actions" so it makes sense on NPCs. Cold Hearted is an evocative mechanic! Why would you help them in the first place if you were cold hearted? Are you supposed to be exploiting them to your own ends in a cold, manipulative sort of way? It might be worth clarifying the Winter Mage's attitude towards the people they're assisting - just a line at the beginning. Icicle Fall is cool (!!) and I'd suggest you include some kind of Iceman-style speed skating through the air thing but I'm not sure that would match the tone you're going for. I thought Minus K wasn't that fair because you could just Defend someone instead of spending Chill to Freeze them, but then I thought that wasn't really a problem. Chill Out shouldn't work if you make the same pun more than once. Winter's Warrior is great aside from what I said earlier about the frozen arm. There should probably be an upper limit on the size of things you can affect with Shatter and Winter's Wrath. Same problem as Winter Wonderland here. Everything else is fine as far as I can see. I hope all this helps!
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Jan 8, 2014 07:04
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Thanks for the feedback! Stuff like this is the real reason I post these things here before release.Bigup DJ posted:I know you asked him but I'd love to see the Tower and the Abyss. Yeah if that wasn't clear, that was a general question to anyone. I am taking requests on mages you want to see. quote:Anyway, here's some feedback on the Winter Mage: I appreciate all of this and agree with most of it. I've made changes to just about everything mentioned here, except this bit: quote:December's Armour is underwhelming. Spending Chill to reduce damage 1-for-1 just isn't worth it when you consider the HP cost of refreshing your Chill - I might end up taking more damage than I prevented! The ice armour from Freeze is way better, even taking into account its drawbacks. When it says I'm immune to cold, does that mean I'm immune to environmental cold or to all sources of cold-based harm? You should also move the bit about spending 2 Chill to make it snow down to Winter Wonderland. Speaking of which, can I make it snow under cover or do I have to be under the open sky? I also feel like the Chill mechanics have been crammed in there a bit. Consider making a separate move for that. Your Chill stat is equal to your Constitution, not your CON, so you'll be starting each day with 13+ points of Chill to work with (probably 16 points on most characters because CON is this mage's care-stat). That is a lot! There is a lot to spend it on, but there is a lot to work with there. The main reason to spend chill to reduce damage straight up, as opposed to other options, is twofold. One, it's instant - you spend the points as soon as you see you are taking damage, and you can spend it as sparingly or as completely as you'd like. Yes, spending 1-Chill for 3 Armor off of a frozen body is better, but you also need to take the time to armor up. And after you are armored up, you can spend Chill to reduce damage further if some gets through. And, of course, you don't need to - it's an optional, life-saving mechanic more than something to rely on. The second important detail is that it isn't Armor. Piercing and Ignore Armor effects will ruin the winter mage's day - she is built to be super tough, but her HP is surprisingly low. That is because, if she wants to, the winter mage can have 4 + Constitution + Constitution HP to work with, which can add up to a lot of survivability. I guess it can be kind of underwhelming, but having double HP isn't much to scoff at. The entire point of the winter mage is to be super tough, but they spend their life energies to cast their magic. Although, one other thing I want to explain quick - Frozen Body gives -1 ongoing to STR, DEX, and damage because I didn't want to give -1 ongoing to CON, because it is their core stat. Otherwise, the -1 ongoing to physical stuff would be much more succinct, yeah. I wanted each choice to have trade-offs, but favor the mage herself in their outcomes - she doesn't use gear, so frozen arms don't bother her. She's super tough, so staying frozen in place doesn't bother her (although that's definitely the best one for hitting enemies with instead). And freezing up a suit of armor may slow her down and make it hard to lift things or break faces, but it makes you solid as a rock, too, and that's what she's good at anyway. Alternatively, I could give it the Clumsy tag. gnome7 fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 07:30
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gnome7 posted:Your Chill stat is equal to your Constitution, not your CON, so you'll be starting each day with 13+ points of Chill to work with (probably 16 points on most characters because CON is this mage's care-stat). That is a lot! There is a lot to spend it on, but there is a lot to work with there. Oh! I missed that completely - I thought you could only have 3 Chill at once. That clears some things up, actually! I like December's Armour a lot better now. I don't like the Clumsy tag - it's not worded very well. Maybe you'd be better off with a more fictional drawback on the ice armour? You can't move faster than a walk, you can't jump, your movement's very stiff - something like that, but a little more succinct. Either way, its effects on NPCs should be made clearer. Does the Winter Mage have any moves which interact with Grim Portents?
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Jan 8, 2014 10:16
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The Supreme Court posted:Latest version, click Boing's profile for a hopefully complete version 2.0 from earlier. Mightbe the one in the OP. We should definitely finish the updated version, it's one of my favourites and is a shame to see unfinished! It's coming along! I could use some more feedback, actually. I've written up a complete playbook for the new (non-Witcher, more mundane) Slayer, but I have a feeling some of the moves still need work: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B94zELwEwdHsR3JTX1Vaek1FeHc There's a new starter move, Monstrum. It might be unnecessary since it's just a prod to the GM to have something for the Slayer to do, and I was going to have advanced moves that keyed off it (like always being offered a reward for a job, sort of like the Assassin's Contract Killer move). I ended up not liking those since that's only relevant to one of the Drive options, really, but the starter move is more general. Should it be kept? I'm struggling a bit with the Curse origin move. It's a common trope: the part-demon/half-vampire/reluctant werewolf hunter of his own kind, so it should be represented. "You can walk among the creatures of the night without provoking them" isn't terribly exciting, but at the same time I don't want to do some cheesy transformation move that gives you 2d6 damage and extra armour or something. And "hunter of his own kind" is asking for some kind of Favoured Enemy mechanic, but the point of the Slayer was to get away from that D&D Ranger-esque "choose what you hope you'll be fighting in this campaign" char creation decision. Not sure about Bagged and Tagged. It feels right to let you get XP for spending your Readiness to kill monsters you prepared against, it's a rewarding way for the slaying process to come full circle, but it might not be good for DW's experience mechanic (which is supposed to reward the players who roll more often and take more risks - the Slayer rolls a bit less than other classes). It's an awkward wording, too. The thing I'm least sure about is the Grisly Trophy monster move mechanic. Previously it required Readiness to use, which felt janky and weird and didn't make sense, but it was good for balance. I changed it to maybe require Defying Danger, which is a really noncommittal way to write a move, and now Tools of the Trade can use Readiness instead (which does feel nice). But now there's not much disincentive to hoarding trophies and having billions of possible moves beyond the Weight limit, which is already pretty generous. Does anyone have any ideas about how to balance it? It might actually be fine, but my Slayers have never used their Grisly Trophies much so I don't know how much of a problem it causes. edit: The Winter Mage posted:Chill Out 
Boing fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 11:57
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Honestly my biggest gripe with that rulebook is having to wait five levels to get that ability. I'm going to be making ice puns from level absolute zero, god dammit.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:26
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Every playbook needs a move like that, I'm 100% serious
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Jan 8, 2014 16:53
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It'd be perfect for the Fighter. "80's Action Hero: When you make a quip after killing an enemy, either take +1 forward or heal 1d4 damage."
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Jan 8, 2014 17:15
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You know, I've found after running a few solid sessions of Dungeon World in an actual campaign with multiple people and level ups that actual play is a much better metric for fun and balance. Personally I think the system runs a lot better with advance moves being extra cool things you can do or modifications on a fictional level, not numerical. It's not just that having a +1 to something is boring, it halts the flow of DW a lot more. As an example (back to the Templar I know), if the advanced move wasn't "you deal 3 damage to anything that attacks you in melee" and was instead "blinding light bathes those that attempt to harm you physically" it'd be a lot more fun and flow a lot better in the game I think, and be a lot more open to stuff it can accomplish. Right now the most interesting and varied playbook in the group is the Lantern.
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Jan 8, 2014 18:19
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Fenarisk posted:Personally I think the system runs a lot better with advance moves being extra cool things you can do or modifications on a fictional level, not numerical. This is basically my entire design goal, so quote:Right now the most interesting and varied playbook in the group is the Lantern. This makes me glad 
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Jan 8, 2014 21:28
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Gnome, thedandmom just released her first Patreon image pack themed on winter; there's an image there that'd make a cool cover for the ice mage and would only cost you five bucks for commercial use. I'll send a copy if you'd like to check it out  Also, totally agree with the point about advanced moves; all the classes I make have that as the specific aim for advancement! The other design aim is "fun", very technical.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:47
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The Supreme Court posted:Gnome, thedandmom just released her first Patreon image pack themed on winter; there's an image there that'd make a cool cover for the ice mage and would only cost you five bucks for commercial use. I'll send a copy if you'd like to check it out Thanks, but I already backed her Patreon! I'll be grabbing that, yeah. Expect an updated Winter Mage and Dragon Mage on DTRPG later tonight, I will post in here when I get them up.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:20
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Here's some wish-granting moves I wrote up:quote:Verdant Emptiness Endowment I'm wondering if I need the example on Bestowal of Accursed Fortune. I would have put something like that in Verdant Emptiness Endowment, but I'm not sure I want people to lose all the fruits of their wish if they break the contract - mainly because it's impossible to figure out what would have happened if they'd never had their wish granted. I'm also wondering if I should leave the flavour text on Palaces Like Sandcastles as is. I was thinking of cutting it down and sticking the following section before the narrative trigger: "Fortunes rise. Fortunes fall. A prince dwells in splendor one day and walks the streets destitute the next. A pauper takes his place."
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Jan 9, 2014 02:46
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And they are up: The Dragon Mage: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/124775/The-Dragon-Mage---A-Dungeon-World-Playbook The Winter Mage: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/124778/The-Winter-Mage---A-Dungeon-World-Playbook
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Jan 9, 2014 04:55
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So close to enough mages to run an all mage game  Something about the hijinks of time man, ice man, and dragon man seem like a lot of fun, especially if the players are the only ones who can use magic.
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Jan 9, 2014 05:40
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Fenarisk posted:This doesn't apply as much to advanced moves though. For instance the Templar has advanced moves that trigger damage when he's attacked, that allow him bonus damage/wrath when in specific situations, and bonuses/unlocks when he deals penance. He has to keep in mind 4 of his advanced moves for something as simple as "how do I do a decent amount of damage and stay alive wading into this group of enemies vs. going one on one with the big guy". Hi Fenarisk! It sounds like your group is having some legitimate problems with the Templar, but I'm having trouble understanding exactly what they are. I'm always looking to improve the Grim World classes (especially from actual playtest feedback), so maybe you can break down the problems you're having more specifically? It almost sounds like your Templar player isn't following the moves as written. Any more information you can provide would be a huge help! =) For example, what do you mean by "he deals penance" and "I can penance the damage"? The Penance move should only be triggered when the character uses their self-punishment device in fiction. E.g.: "The stench of sin has sullied my mind. I tighten the cilice on my hip as an act of penance. I grit my teeth against the pain!" (Templar takes 1d4 damage and gains 1 Wrath) Also, I would encourage your player to reread the trigger for Armor of Wrath. The full move is: "The armor you wear is charged by the purity of your soul. You ignore the clumsy tag on all armor. When an enemy's skin touches your armor, they take your current Wrath in damage (ignores armor)." Basically, the Templar's armor is red hot. If a goblin runs up and hits you with a sword, the move doesn't trigger. But if your Templar tackles the goblin for a roll in the hay, the goblin will soon experience a burning sensation. Please let me know if you have any more feedback! You can always email us: team@boldlygames.com gnome7 posted:Grim World's Templar and Slayer are also probably the worst published playbooks out there, so that has something to do with it. Not power-wise, mind, just design wise. Sorry to hear that, Jacob. I addressed a lot of your feedback for the Templar awhile back and I feel it's in a good place now. And the Slayer is still one of my personal favorite playbooks. I've gotten playtesting feedback from many backers that enjoy them and both classes have been played a lot in our campaigns with great results. It sounds like we have very different playstyles. Trentish fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 05:48
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Hey good to see you here Trentish. Let me run down the combo/issue that the Templar is running with. Red Hot Wrath: The player adds his current wrath to attacks, which adds a flat +3, which puts the player at 1d10+3. Granted a 10+ is required to use smite for free, but the one player usually aids him and with his +3 in strength (boosted first), he's getting a 10+ pretty reliably by just rolling a 6 (at least a 50% chance). So on normal hits he does 1d10+3, and half the time he gets 1d10+1d4+3. Compound this with... White Knight: the player took Exterminatus as the paladin move (+2d4 to a single target until it's dead), so he's shouting an oath as he attacks to get 1d8+1d4+2d4+3. If he shouts his oath and enemies come to the aid of whatever he just blew up, he plans on... Armor of Wrath: to deal 3 damage straight up from his 3/3 wrath. Granted, I didn't notice the "when their skin touches your armor" so now I have some ways around it, but they've been fighting a lot of creatures and undead in the last 2 sessions so it sort of makes sense I suppose. If he does ever spend wrath on Consecrated Ground though, he's now doing 7 damage to anything coming into melee that touches him with its skin/natural weapons I guess. Lastly, he's taken Holy Vengeance so if in some strange circumstance he does spend a wrath in combat he usually gets it right back after killing the thing. I think once or twice he's done penance with a barbed holy ring to deal the damage and gain wrath back, but it isn't often enough to remember much. Now, I know this isn't typical because he just doesn't spend wrath, but in not spending wrath he's reliably doing at minimum 1d8+2d4+3, and an additional 1d4 half the time. The average for that comes to 14, which is a LOT in Dungeon World even taking into account armor or getting the chance to do damage (Hell the minimum is 7 damage before armor). With a Lantern in the group and a Bard, he never needs the Wrath to volley (divine force), and he rarely uses Confession either to take damage. Lord have mercy if we get far enough for him to take Soul Fire. I know this is atypical but it's the style he's playing the Templar. I still think the playbook is a lot of fun and has a cool design space. I do note that this is a very min max, combat centric player as well. Fenarisk fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 06:05
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Fenarisk posted:So close to enough mages to run an all mage game Well I'm not done yet! There's a couple more mages in the pipe already. Trentish posted:Sorry to hear that, Jacob. I addressed a lot of your feedback for the Templar awhile back and I feel it's in a good place now. And the Slayer is still one of my personal favorite playbooks. I've gotten playtesting feedback from many backers that enjoy them and both classes have been played a lot in our campaigns with great results. It sounds like we have very different playstyles. Ah, yeah. I think "different playstyles" sums it up well. I don't like +numbers, as a general thing, and those two playbooks put a lot of emphasis on that. I really love the ones that do not - the Channeler and Shaman are some of my favorite playbooks around. ( Also I still don't like the Thirst mechanic at all, but that's neither here nor there. )
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Jan 9, 2014 06:32
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Well, I'm hype as all get out on this game and I think I'm about to start making some class playbooks and get in on that sweet DTRPG action (hahaha.) I've got some ideas scattered around, but the most focused one is a group of magic-themed classes that will try to shy away from popular fantasy magic tropes, and fully embrace wacky irl magic tropes, retroactively applied to a fantasy setting. Here's a preview of some, probably going to just be the four, just some notes I made to direct my own class/move writing. The Mason (Lodges; Brotherhood; Hele and Conceal) - Contruct and repurpose facilities for private and public use. - Maintain a network of like-minded fellows living hidden in plain sight across the globe. - Cultivate a supernatural talent for secrets and obfuscation. Examples: {Trystero - The Crying of Lot 49; Order of the White Lotus - Avatar: The Last Airbender; The Bookhouse Boys - Twin Peaks; The Broternal Order of Different Helmets - Homestar Runner} The Hermetic (As Above, So Below; Alchemy/Spagyrics; Theurgy) - Make the Macrocosm more accurately represent the Microcosm, or vice versa. - Transform, Purify, and Perfect the self, or other alchemical materials. - Make contact with God(s) using a magic circle and ritual preparation. Examples: {The Protagonist - Persona/Shin Megami Tensei series of video games; Prospero - The Tempest; W.B. Yeats - Poet; The Alchemist - The Holy Mountain} The Kabbalist (Oneiromancy; My Unshaped Form; Palaces and Chariots) - Decode the secret language of dreams to reveal true natures or gain glimpses of the future, present, or past. - Construct a golem of mud and clay to represent the unfinished human being before God's eyes. Use it to finish things. - Step into the otherworldly Chariot and ascend to the Palace of your deity. Call for conference or interference. Examples: (Maharal of Prague; Fox Mulder - X-Files; Ezekiel - Book of Ezekiel) The Thelemite (Do What Thou Wilt; Love is the Law; Every Man and Every Woman is a Star) - Act according to your True Will, and enact this Will on the world. Sometimes this lines up with common law, sometimes not. - Enforce justice, equality, and compassion for all. This could be nonviolent or quite shocking indeed. - Attain a higher identity via magickal Drama, invoking god-forms and concepts to possess your Self. Examples: (Aleister Crowley; The Joker - Batman; Jimmy Page - Led Zeppelin; Ragged Robin - The Invisibles) These may or may not be later altered so as not to disrespectfully misrepresent people's actual practices, but mostly I just think it's cool and want to make classes (and I'm reading Manly P. Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages", pro read, occult books are usually great RPG starter material.) Under the vegetable fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jan 10, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 06:34
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gnome7 posted:Well I'm not done yet! There's a couple more mages in the pipe already. The Star Mage currently has "What drives you to expand your collection? Choose one:" as their Drive, and the first Drive from the Collector.
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Jan 9, 2014 10:43
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gnome7 posted:So today I was productive, and I finished the Winter and Dragon Mage playbooks. You can check out a preview of the finished playbooks here. Thoughts and questions: Dragon Mage: - The Hardened Scales draconic transformation gives you 2 Armor and +2 Armor vs fire. Is it intentional that if you're wearing Full Plate or other sources of 3 armor, you get no additional normal armor? Because that's how it should be, and it should possibly be specified. - I'm not sure I like Rags to Riches. It's really fun but it does sort of defeat the entire point of the weight management rules - a large part of any dungeon crawl - by letting you bypass any thinking about weight and value. Additionally, "full market value" does open up some exploits with banker's drafts and so on. I've been running it as material value and that seems a lot safer. - For the Death Move I feel like the trigger for when your draconic form collapses should be "when all your enemies lie dead before you". Otherwise you could hang around as a dragon for quite some time. Winter Mage: - 2x as much health seems powerful. Particularly if you can wear armor and stack it with some other bullshit defense powers. If I were you, I'd remove the Winter Mage's ability to multiclass. Some of the Survivor, Paladin, Templar and other classes based around "not dying" moves would be ludicrous with this. Lovely mechanic, though. - Winter Wonderland needs a serious reword. Any structure? Specificially specifying that you can make Castles instantly? Yeah, wow, no way. There needs to be some serious size and complexity restrictions on this. Even with that restriction, 1-Chill to finish instantly is pretty much not a restriction at all; could be an idea to make finishing instantly a roll with a chance of problems. Or a pick from a list thing, for what you're willing to risk to finish quickly. Even with all that, I've never been a fan of moves that let you completely bypass any challenges based around difficult terrain. If the Winter Mage can just bridge any gap, make a staircase up to any height or down any chasm, that kinda severely reduces the number of challenges I can throw at my players that aren't "The Winter Mage spends a Chill". - Cold-Hearted: Thematically very nice, mechanically I'm not sure I like it. It's very dicks. - The Gear choices are awesome. More of this and less "12 gold and some adventuring gear" please, playbook authors. - I really do not like this Death Move at all. I get the Koschei the Deathless vibe you're going for, but the move really doesn't work like this. Say your Winter Mage dies, reveals he has removed his heart and hidden it half a world away trapped inside a glacier. Now, the Winter Mage's continued survival is literally up to GM fiat. Either he never dies, and can jug on out forever or he can literally die at any moment because the GM said that an enemy found his heart and destroyed it. It takes the character's survival right out of his hands. The third option, that he receives word somebody is looking for his heart, would be a nice plot hook but could totally derail a game, which is not what a Death Move is supposed to do. If there was a requirement that the heart had to remain within a hundred metres of him or he died, so that he has his heart in a box and there's a lot of juggling the box and trying to keep it safe in combat that could be cool, but mainly I feel like Death Moves should be more of a "get to crack off an apocalyptically powerful move just once" than what this is. - Permafrost could use a "specify one thing that you know for certain does melt your ice" clause. Or some sort of "this is not Dragonfire-proof" only-under-normal-conditions clause. Otherwise, indestructo-armor forever! Wow, that seemed like a lot of complaining. I will specify that there's a lot of stuff in both playbooks that look extremely fun and that a couple of my players tried an earlier preview of Dragon Mage and loved it. It's just that Winter Mage in particular had a lot of eyebrow raising stuff even from an initial readthrough. These really need more playtesting and sanity checking before going up on DTRPG I think. Also the power creep in third party playbooks is getting kinda crazy now. I'm somebody who likes playing the Fighter because having a big loving sword and being a murderhobo is cool, but things like someone else having 4 armor and nearly 2x my health from character gen is crazy. And the Dragon Mage's flying, counterspelling, scale armor and 3-piercing clawsing, fire breathing self does show me up a bit as well. Like I say, I'm trying not to be all negativity. These are exceptionally cool playbook ideas and I will definitely buy the bundle once all the Mages are out (and probably run a Wizard Academy game) but honestly they don't feel ready for release.
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Jan 9, 2014 16:04
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Doodmons posted:- The Hardened Scales draconic transformation gives you 2 Armor and +2 Armor vs fire. Is it intentional that if you're wearing Full Plate or other sources of 3 armor, you get no additional normal armor? Because that's how it should be, and it should possibly be specified. I'm not Gnome but that's literally how writing "2 armor" vs. writing "+2 armor" works in the game.
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Jan 9, 2014 16:38
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Thanks for the feedback. You raise some good points.Doodmons posted:Thoughts and questions: They do not stack, and this doesn't really need to be specified because that's how armor rules work. +X armor stacks with everything; X armor never stacks. So if you're already wearing armor, Hardened Scales only gives you bonus armor against fire. quote:- I'm not sure I like Rags to Riches. It's really fun but it does sort of defeat the entire point of the weight management rules - a large part of any dungeon crawl - by letting you bypass any thinking about weight and value. Additionally, "full market value" does open up some exploits with banker's drafts and so on. I've been running it as material value and that seems a lot safer. Material value probably makes more sense, yeah. I'm not sure that it makes a big difference either way though. quote:- For the Death Move I feel like the trigger for when your draconic form collapses should be "when all your enemies lie dead before you". Otherwise you could hang around as a dragon for quite some time. "Make Camp" is the move for "you go to sleep for the night," and triggers when any player does so. You're sticking around for one day, tops - probably less, if you take a break at any point during the day. quote:Winter Mage: Would it work if I changed their multiclass move to the following, perhaps: DECEMBER'S DABBLER Gain one non-multiclass move from any class list. You can only take a move related to ice, snow, wind, or causing death. quote:- Winter Wonderland needs a serious reword. Any structure? Specificially specifying that you can make Castles instantly? Yeah, wow, no way. There needs to be some serious size and complexity restrictions on this. Even with that restriction, 1-Chill to finish instantly is pretty much not a restriction at all; could be an idea to make finishing instantly a roll with a chance of problems. Or a pick from a list thing, for what you're willing to risk to finish quickly. Even with all that, I've never been a fan of moves that let you completely bypass any challenges based around difficult terrain. If the Winter Mage can just bridge any gap, make a staircase up to any height or down any chasm, that kinda severely reduces the number of challenges I can throw at my players that aren't "The Winter Mage spends a Chill". It specifies castles for only one reason, really. If you're going to make a house to stay in out of ice, why wouldn't you make a castle? I could probably entirely remove the part about spending Chill to be done instantly, though. quote:- Cold-Hearted: Thematically very nice, mechanically I'm not sure I like it. It's very dicks. It certainly won't make them any friends, will it? quote:- I really do not like this Death Move at all. I get the Koschei the Deathless vibe you're going for, but the move really doesn't work like this. Say your Winter Mage dies, reveals he has removed his heart and hidden it half a world away trapped inside a glacier. Now, the Winter Mage's continued survival is literally up to GM fiat. Either he never dies, and can jug on out forever or he can literally die at any moment because the GM said that an enemy found his heart and destroyed it. It takes the character's survival right out of his hands. The third option, that he receives word somebody is looking for his heart, would be a nice plot hook but could totally derail a game, which is not what a Death Move is supposed to do. If there was a requirement that the heart had to remain within a hundred metres of him or he died, so that he has his heart in a box and there's a lot of juggling the box and trying to keep it safe in combat that could be cool, but mainly I feel like Death Moves should be more of a "get to crack off an apocalyptically powerful move just once" than what this is. Full reveal: I initially started writing it as an advance, but then I noticed it was basically a death move so I moved it on over to that. You make a good point - the move would leave their continued existence up to GM fiat, huh? I'll do some rethinking on it, but in the meantime, temporary fix: Death Move: Heartless Winter's touch is not for the faint of heart. In fact, you could say that it isn't a path anyone with a heart can take. When you die, you reveal what your 'friends' have always suspected: that you are literally a heartless monster. Tell us which other player has your heart - who did you give it to? Why didn't they know they had it? Set your HP to 0. You can no longer heal or take damage by any means, and as long as your heart is safe, you will live on. When your heart is destroyed, you finally die. quote:- Permafrost could use a "specify one thing that you know for certain does melt your ice" clause. Or some sort of "this is not Dragonfire-proof" only-under-normal-conditions clause. Otherwise, indestructo-armor forever! Done. I mean, it's not like their armor is something that costs them anything to restore, but losing it for a few crucial moments could definitely be a really cool moment, which would be dumb to take away. quote:Wow, that seemed like a lot of complaining. I will specify that there's a lot of stuff in both playbooks that look extremely fun and that a couple of my players tried an earlier preview of Dragon Mage and loved it. It's just that Winter Mage in particular had a lot of eyebrow raising stuff even from an initial readthrough. These really need more playtesting and sanity checking before going up on DTRPG I think. I should probably stop writing for dungeon world and start writing for that superheroes *world game I've been meaning to do forever, huh. After I finish a few more mages, I think that is what I will do. UrbanLabyrinth posted:The Star Mage currently has "What drives you to expand your collection? Choose one:" as their Drive, and the first Drive from the Collector. It isn't done, yeah. 
gnome7 fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 16:50
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gnome7 posted:I should probably stop writing for dungeon world and start writing for that superheroes *world game I've been meaning to do forever, huh. After I finish a few more mages, I think that is what I will do. Hey now, that's what I'M doing!  Honestly, I'm surprised a superhero PBtA game hasn't been done already. It seems like a logical "next step" to take.
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Jan 9, 2014 17:58
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Spincut posted:Hey now, that's what I'M doing! There are a few in the works, but I haven't sen anything finished or in the style I want. I think part of the reason is that "superheroes" is actually a very broad concept and doesn't really tell you what the game is about or what player interactions are like. Supers have a very broad range of themes, and most people approach them the same way they do zombies - from the perspective that the framing, the window dressing is the focus of the genre. I'd love to see (or work on) a superhero game where the play books are more about your image, your role in the story, and your motivations, and then powers.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:54
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gnome7 posted:Ah, yeah. I think "different playstyles" sums it up well. I don't like +numbers, as a general thing, and those two playbooks put a lot of emphasis on that. I really love the ones that do not - the Channeler and Shaman are some of my favorite playbooks around. I agree with most of this but also the Necromancer is my favorite playbook I've seen among any published DW classes outside of Walker and Captain.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:09
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gnome7 posted:Death Move: Heartless This still seems like targeting/destroying the heart would become somewhat arbitrary/DM fiat-y. How about "Tell us which other player has your heart - who did you give it to? Why didn't they know they had it? Restore your Chill to its maximum. You can no longer heal or take damage by any means. When the holder of your heart takes damage, lose an equal amount of Chill. When your Chill reaches 0, your heart finally melts and you die."? (whether this is metaphorical, or whether the heart is literal and the person holding it can change by handing it around is up to GM/player interpretation)
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Jan 10, 2014 00:17
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madadric posted:There are a few in the works, but I haven't sen anything finished or in the style I want. Yeah, that's for certain. I'm going for more of an X-men inspired background, which I think fits really well for the consequences that are a central part to PBtA games. Your last sentence is also something I'm struggling with currently. I want the power sets to be the main thing, but I also want to make playbooks that mess with the mechanics of the game. Like Reputation is a central aspect, but I also want a Sadist playbook that feeds off of anguish and gets more powerful by losing Rep. It's all a big balancing act of whether or not things fit in the fiction. Luckily you can do a lot of out-there poo poo with super heroes.
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Jan 10, 2014 01:24
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