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Tatum Girlparts posted:Or maybe he was just pointing out how this is a dumb shock project that just makes whatever actual satanist groups exist (I loving assume?) look dumb by proxy so a bunch of internet atheists can smuggo with eachother about when they totally owned those Xtians by spending thousands of dollars to put a Cannibal Corpse stage design reject up. theflyingorc posted:There aren't actual satanist groups, they're all for trolling religious people. The statue isn't going to be constructed and never was, it's a stunt. It's silly and sensationalistic, but the fundamental reason is to provoke the absurd reaction of "this is a faith-based nation" for a country ostensibly founded on freedom of religion, which is sort of a valid thing to point out.
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Jan 8, 2014 08:27
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I dunno it seems like proving that fundamentalist assholes are huge hypocrites about their views of freedom of religion isn't exactly some brave new trail to blaze. Like yea, no poo poo the country where lawmakers literally tried to ban building mosques in some states because they assumed they were terrorist training camps has a decent amount of hosed up people with wrong views. Going to the most obvious shock factor of "WELL WHAT ABOUT A STATUE OF SATAN WHAT NOW" doesn't really make a debate or anything, they could have just gone with one of the actual cases of discrimination or whatever that happen.
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Jan 8, 2014 09:01
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Going to the most obvious shock factor of "WELL WHAT ABOUT A STATUE OF SATAN WHAT NOW" doesn't really make a debate or anything, they could have just gone with one of the actual cases of discrimination or whatever that happen. It doesn't make a debate, except how it's on national news everywhere and everyone's talking about it including you. They should've just made a whiny internet post that no one cares about like yours. And who cares if it starts a debate. It's a hilarious troll and that statue rocks.
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Jan 8, 2014 09:08
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Though I doubt it will get installed on the OK capital, I'm hoping it may get installed elsewhere, because goddamnit I want my picture taken sitting on his lap. At the very least, considering how activistic the Temple of Satan is, it should manage to take some major steps towards having the 10 commandments removed, and keeping the state building a religion free zone, as it should be.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:24
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Yeah it's not about a rational debate as that ship has sailed long ago. It's about calling a bluff and I wish more of this was happening. Sure it's silly and bombastic but that's the only way to get this kind of crap out in the headlines.
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Jan 8, 2014 13:41
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Proposing a statue of Baphomet is pretty much the same a building a statue of John Galt. No matter if the ostentatious motive is good, it ultimately just raises awareness of a group of assholes with toxic beliefs. Plus maybe it reinforces Conservatives' fear that Christianity is under siege by cynical liberals and atheists. Now, if they chose some actual religious icons - you wouldn't even need outlandishly grotesque images. There's probably even a bunch of Monophysite or Nestorian stuff that would fly about as well as Satan. It would actually work even better since it could be seen as a litmus test of how much this whole thing has to do with religion, and how much it has to do with nationalism an xenophobia. steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 13:49 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 13:46
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100Dachshunds posted:Though I doubt it will get installed on the OK capital, I'm hoping it may get installed elsewhere, because goddamnit I want my picture taken sitting on his lap. At the very least, considering how activistic the Temple of Satan is, it should manage to take some major steps towards having the 10 commandments removed, and keeping the state building a religion free zone, as it should be. Considering that robocop statue cost 60k to build, I will bet this never gets made. 20k is far too low for a seven foot statue, with materials and labor. What a waste.
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Jan 8, 2014 14:20
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The stupidest thing about that Baphomet statue, is that the Baphomet depicted there is actually from a drawing by a catholic priest and occultist who was anything but a satanist. He was a theurgist and praising god all the time. His Baphomet isn't a depiction of satan or lucifer, but a symbolic representation of alchemical teachings. I doubt they catch the irony about all this. SpaceGoatFarts has a new favorite as of 14:33 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 14:25
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Dude, we know Stanists don't literally worship Satan. We "get" it. It's just that troll religions are all embarrassingly sophomoric and unbearably smug to everybody who outgrew the "invisible sky wizard zombie carpenter flying spaghetti monster bob dobbs jedi on the census deal w/ it  " phase in their teenage years no matter how much they try and spin it as a joke at the expense of the normies.
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Jan 8, 2014 14:52
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Jesus Christ people, have none of you seen a poisoned well before? This is (for lack of a better word) trolling on a level that you rarely see in the real world. The point of this statue is to be the vice that forces assholes to face the fact that either they can live in a Christian nation, or a free one. The whole thing is a brilliant stunt, and the only way it can fail is if they actually try to build it and run out of funds.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:14
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Darkhold posted:Yeah it's not about a rational debate as that ship has sailed long ago. It's about calling a bluff and I wish more of this was happening. Sure it's silly and bombastic but that's the only way to get this kind of crap out in the headlines. Yeah normally I'd agree with people and say why not build a hindu statue instead of being a "lol religion sucks amirite" tryhard so people see that there are serious objections to littering government with religious crap, but well a Hindu group did want to build a statue on the capitol grounds and nobody's talking about that.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:20
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My point is that this Baphomet character is actually a symbol of everything the atheist satanists despise (spirituality, selflessness, etc) . This is the irony I'm talking about. Hardcore protestants will of course see nothing but the devil because "aaargh the devil is a goat", but it's almost like these satanists will troll themselves too with such a symbol they don't really understand.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:20
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:Jesus Christ people, have none of you seen a poisoned well before? This is (for lack of a better word) trolling on a, level that you rarely see in the real world. The point of this statue is to be the vice that forces assholes to face the fact that either they can live in a Christian nation, or a free one. They raised over 20k. The point is lost if they don't build the statue and actually try to get it erected. If its all a joke, then its no better than the slacktivism over kony2012.
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Jan 8, 2014 15:20
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SpaceGoatFarts posted:My point is that this Baphomet character is actually a symbol of everything the atheist satanists despise (spirituality, selflessness, etc) . Have you considered the possibility they're trolling the opposition by putting forward a "false" satan and waiting for the reaction?
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Jan 8, 2014 16:01
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a medical mystery posted:Have you considered the possibility they're trolling the opposition by putting forward a "false" satan and waiting for the reaction? No because the church of satan adopted the sigil of baphomet as one of their symbol since the beginning. It's just they are clueless about it. Also they inverted the pentagram on that statue while the original is upward facing. This baphomet is a gnostic/hermetic symbol. Actually it's only since they appropriated it that such a symbol is related to satanism in people's mind. Gnostics and occultists weren't regarded highly by the church, but they were anything but atheist and materialist. But in Lavey's mind the ennemies of his ennemy were his allies. And this is how materialist atheists adopted a gnostic (spiritual and theist) symbol for all the wrong reasons.
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Jan 8, 2014 16:09
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Autechresaint posted:They raised over 20k. The point is lost if they don't build the statue and actually try to get it erected. If its all a joke, then its no better than the slacktivism over kony2012. And Kony 2012 was a giant misdirection to donate money to an unaccountable charity through easy pressure tactics, the terrorists won.
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Jan 8, 2014 16:09
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Autechresaint posted:They raised over 20k. The point is lost if they don't build the statue and actually try to get it erected. If its all a joke, then its no better than the slacktivism over kony2012. "If Oklahoma City refuses to allow us to donate a monument, all funds will go toward efforts to appeal or contest the rejection, and/or place another Satanic monument in another relevant location." and the point is already made once people start fighting to stop them from putting up the statue. If the opposite said "yeah thats cool, guess it would be kinda hypocritical if we didn't" then the point would be moot. but that aint gonna happen. SpaceGoatFarts posted:No because the church of satan adopted the sigil of baphomet as one of their symbol since the beginning. It's just they are clueless about it. Also they inverted the pentagram on that statue while the original is upward facing. you are legit dumb if you care about this EvilTobaccoExec has a new favorite as of 16:19 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 16:14
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Hm, perhaps the smartest thing Oklahoma City decision makers could do would be to grant the request and hope that a) The statue will never be made b) Public outrage will convince the group to abandon the project, or will paint its members as bullies abusing the benevolence of OC's representatives by defacing public property.
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Jan 8, 2014 16:22
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steinrokkan posted:b) Public outrage will convince the group to abandon the project, or will paint its members as bullies abusing the benevolence of OC's representatives by defacing public property. Considering that the entire purpose of the project is to generate outrage, I doubt this would work. The smartest thing they could would be to suggest they'd be willing to get rid of the Ten Commandments monument, then use the resulting public outcry/outrage to simultaneously justify them keeping the Ten Commandments monument and shifting attention away from the satanic monument. Great Rumbler has a new favorite as of 16:30 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 16:24
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:you are legit dumb if you care about this I don't really care. It simply shows to me that religion in the US is such a polarizing subject that it leads most people to always define themselves in opposition to the other side, instead of, you know, based on what they personally think? I mean they could have chosen to erect a giant penis statue or something, that would have been awesome. Instead they just picked something from another tradition because they have the feeling it will piss off clueless christians somehow. Maybe I'm dumb but their stunt is dumb too. SpaceGoatFarts has a new favorite as of 16:35 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 16:26
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Espy posted:And Kony 2012 was a giant misdirection to donate money to an unaccountable charity through easy pressure tactics... That's what I mean, this feels like an easy way to drum up support for thousands of dollars from internet atheists that will end up no where on account of ' sticking it to those christians'. I'll be impressed only when they actually go through with building this statue, rather than threatening to, because right now it rings hollow and empty.
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Jan 8, 2014 16:43
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SpaceGoatFarts posted:I mean they could have chosen to erect a giant penis statue or something, that would have been awesome. Instead they just picked something from another tradition because they have the feeling it will piss off clueless christians somehow. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't go for a statue of Cthulhu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster but I guess they were going for something that would piss off the 'Xtians' as much as possible. Cthulhu would have raised more than $20k, however.
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Jan 8, 2014 16:44
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:I'm somewhat surprised they didn't go for a statue of Cthulhu or the Flying Spaghetti Monster but I guess they were going for something that would piss off the 'Xtians' as much as possible. flying spaghetti monsters people also applied to put up a statue so did PETA actually
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Jan 8, 2014 16:55
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Rebuild the Colossus of Rhodes, with the state capitol betwixt his legs.
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Jan 8, 2014 17:01
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Nuke Oklahoma City and call it a monument to humanity. EDGY
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Jan 8, 2014 17:05
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crowfeathers posted:flying spaghetti monsters people also applied to put up a statue It's like an endless parade of obnoxious, self-important organizations. So when are the MRA's going to apply?
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Jan 8, 2014 17:05
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dijon du jour posted:It's like an endless parade of obnoxious, self-important organizations. Right after the bitcoin shrine goes up. Someone get on that, I'm just the idea guy.
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Jan 8, 2014 17:07
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dijon du jour posted:It's like an endless parade of obnoxious, self-important organizations. "The Oklahoma section of /r/MensRights/ would like to donate this fedora electroplated in copper to the capitol to be displayed as an hommage to all the brave souls who were friend-zoned once".
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Jan 8, 2014 17:13
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The Fedora of the Unknown Nice Guy
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Jan 8, 2014 17:23
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Bad Munki posted:The Fedora of the Unknown Nice Guy Noooooo don't put ideas into their doughy fat heads
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Jan 8, 2014 17:40
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SpaceGoatFarts posted:No because the church of satan adopted the sigil of baphomet as one of their symbol since the beginning. It's just they are clueless about it. Also they inverted the pentagram on that statue while the original is upward facing. The history of any symbol has always been completely irrelevant in comparison to the commonly understood meaning.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:04
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:The history of any symbol has always been completely irrelevant in comparison to the commonly understood meaning. See: swastikas.
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Jan 8, 2014 21:17
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:The history of any symbol has always been completely irrelevant in comparison to the commonly understood meaning. "Did you know the Jesus fish, historically, was a pictograph referring to an animal that lived in water?"
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Jan 8, 2014 21:29
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The star and crescent we know today began in ancient Byzantion, as a symbol of the city's patron Hecate, Goddess of Magic and the Moon, who had protected them from the conqueror Phillip of Macedon (father of Alexander). It remained as the emblem of the city through the eras of Macedonia and Rome, even after Constantine the Great moved his capital to Byzantium. When the Ottoman Turks finally conquered Constantinople, the star and crescent continued to persist, becoming the emblem on the Turkish flag. And since the Ottoman Empire was the most powerful Islamic state for centuries, controlling almost the entire Middle East, the symbol transferred again and became a symbol of Islam itself.
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Jan 8, 2014 22:01
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What, you mean Jack Chick was lying???
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Jan 8, 2014 22:19
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"Kickstarter thread posted:Symbolism This is best derail. Honestly, it is worth pointing out that the choice of a Baphomet statue would piss off Christians, mainly because that is the crux of what the church is planning. As Phiz stated earlier, the success of the campaign now forces the ball into OKC's hands: if they put up the statue, they're going to catch flak for it from the heavily Christian community. If they don't, it opens them up for even more attention to stuff like this, exposing the hypocrisy on a much wider scale. Also as pointed out, there was a petition to put a Hindu statue, a PETA display and an FSM display up as well, but those don't generate near the amount of attention. The fact that this statue, depicting this figure and sponsored by this organization is getting the press only furthers the point they're trying to make. From the Washington Times article: Rep. Don Armes, 63rd District posted:
So, yeah, I want to see what the results are and I'm glad they got funding.
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Jan 8, 2014 22:35
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It's an incredibly dumb stunt, because they're asking Christians to choose between a) being hypocritical by rejecting a vague notion of separation of church and state, and b) accepting a statue and worship of the ultimate evil force in the universe. Where did they think Christian opinions were gonna fall on this one? I agree that I wish the effort and funds here would go towards something more positive instead of a "lol Christians suck" monument. Always be constructive, not destructive.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:17
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Drunk Tomato posted:It's an incredibly dumb stunt, because they're asking Christians to choose between a) being hypocritical by rejecting a vague notion of separation of church and state, and b) accepting a statue and worship of the ultimate evil force in the universe. It's not "Christians" it's the state government. The only way what the Oklahoma did (give free hosting on public land to an explicitly Christian item) can be justified as not a violation of the 1st amendment is to give equal hosting to any other religion or group's stuff.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:24
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It's Christians because it's Satan. They wouldn't use Satan unless they were trying to specifically offend Christians. The problem is that the government in the area, a prominently Christian area, is made up of mostly Christians, like their constituents. The ridiculousness of the proposal is what made it so popular, along with the r/atheism internet outcry as previously noted. The end result, though, is that people in the city would have to live looking at a monument to the most evil thing in the universe to them. So are they really going to allow it? The answer is no. if it had been something else, maybe there could be a discussion about equality and diversity that actually loving goes somewhere instead of this stupid prank/stunt.
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Jan 9, 2014 02:35
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Drunk Tomato posted:It's Christians because it's Satan. They wouldn't use Satan unless they were trying to specifically offend Christians. The problem is that the government in the area, a prominently Christian area, is made up of mostly Christians, like their constituents. The stupid stunt was Oklahoma thinking they could get away with state support of a religion in direct contradiction of the drat bill of rights you clown. Similar things have been struck down by the courts when other states and governments tried it. Oklahoma set themselves up to have this specific kind of thing happen when they tried to play it off as "open to any group".
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Jan 9, 2014 02:38
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