Drug legalization thread

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showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

Yiggy posted:

The person in line near me that seemed the most up-to-date on his info seemed convinced that suppliers will never feel any pressure to lower prices

They will once a competitor realizes they can undercut everyone else in town by charging less, but probably that will have to wait until everyone is reasonably sure that the DEA isn't gonna arrest every legal weed store in Colorado or whatever.

Edit: I guess you can't arrest a store but whatever

showbiz_liz fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jan 8, 2014

# ? Jan 8, 2014 17:38

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 10:41

mdemone: Mar 14, 2001

showbiz_liz posted:

They will once a competitor realizes they can undercut everyone else in town by charging less, but probably that will have to wait until everyone is reasonably sure that the DEA isn't gonna arrest every legal weed store in Colorado or whatever.

Yeah, we really need to table the pricing discussion until late spring when the emergency yields are hitting shelves and general paranoia has receded a bit.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 17:46

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Yiggy posted:

I think a question that remains is whether they'll boost supply enough for the price to ever fall any, or if it'll hold steady either due to slow increase in taxes or just sticky prices in general. After years of shopping around in Austin, the price I was able to get on 1/1/14 was only ~$5.00 worse for a quarter of flower that was way better than anything I'd ever been able to find at that price point. I'm not complaining, but surely that price can come down. The person in line near me that seemed the most up-to-date on his info seemed convinced that suppliers will never feel any pressure to lower prices, but I feel like over time, onerous or not, more people will go through the process of obtaining retail licenses and competition has to kick in at some point.

I don't think there's any question that the supply will increase many times over. There will eventually be hundreds of shops in Colorado, right now there are about 30 statewide. Not to mention the $5 over street prices includes a hefty ~36% tax.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 18:12

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Its legal now. And its barely been a week. Give it time. All i hope for is that weed stores dont become fronts. It would seriously damage the movement and give a lot of rhetoric for the opposing side to keep repeating.

There is no way that any of the CO retailers currently would risk their license to deal on the side or whatever. Once profit margins thin out, that may change, but for now you needn't worry.

As for people waiting, people who smoked pot before it was legal will continue to smoke if the legal source drys up and there is another source available. It's fine. Black Markets exist because of inefficiencies in the market, the primary driver is lack of supply. Once the legal supply meets demand, the next driver will be price and I don't think people are too upset about the pricing right now and it's only going to go down. Black Markets are not really a problem because once they don't have a reason to exist anymore they won't.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 18:13

Pryor on Fire: May 14, 2013; they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

There is no supply problem, there is not a single shop that is out of anything in the entire state. I don't know where this silly piece of media fiction came from but it's completely false.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 19:21

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Pryor on Fire posted:

There is no supply problem, there is not a single shop that is out of anything in the entire state. I don't know where this silly piece of media fiction came from but it's completely false.

Some people were turned away when they hit up a retail store on day 1, so therefore there must be crushing under-supply.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 19:24

mdemone: Mar 14, 2001

Pryor on Fire posted:

There is no supply problem, there is not a single shop that is out of anything in the entire state. I don't know where this silly piece of media fiction came from but it's completely false.

Regardless, we can't really talk about price discovery until supply and demand are a little more comparable. And it's good to hear that stores are still stocked. *clicks on Priceline.com*

# ? Jan 8, 2014 19:29

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

Powercrazy posted:

There is no way that any of the CO retailers currently would risk their license to deal on the side or whatever. Once profit margins thin out, that may change, but for now you needn't worry.

Definitely they won't. As one of the guys on the Young Turks said, having a license to sell weed is a license to print money, and no business owner would jeopardize that. Part of the reason shops have to grow 80% of the product they sell is to combat selling on the side as well. Each plant is tagged with an RFID tag and the plant matter is accounted for from seed to bud with barcodes.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 19:48

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

NathanScottPhillips posted:

Each plant is tagged with an RFID tag and the plant matter is accounted for from seed to bud with barcodes.

I'm glad that we as a society have decided this is worth spending money on.

NOTICE: ALL POT SHOPS WILL BE SUBJECT TO RANDOM GENE SEQUENCING. IF THE GENES PRESENT IN YOUR BUDS DON'T MATCH THE GENOTYPE LISTED IN THEIR TAG YOU WILL BE FINED $50000 AND HAVE YOUR POT LICENSE REVOKED.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 8, 2014

# ? Jan 8, 2014 20:07

McGurk: Oct 20, 2004; Cuz life sucks, kids. Get it while you can.

Jeffrey posted:

I'm glad that we as a society have decided this is worth spending money on.

NOTICE: ALL POT SHOPS WILL BE SUBJECT TO RANDOM GENE SEQUENCING. IF THE GENES PRESENT IN YOUR BUDS DON'T MATCH THE GENOTYPE LISTED IN THEIR TAG YOU WILL BE FINED $50000 AND HAVE YOUR POT LICENSE REVOKED.

It's more to track yields, I doubt they care about strains.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 20:22

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

TheManWithNoName posted:

It's more to track yields, I doubt they care about strains.

Ahh the two sentences next to each other lead me to assume that that was a legal requirement as part of the 80% rule, this makes a lot more sense.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 20:35

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Yeah if 600 pounds leaves your farm and only 400 show up at your stated retail and medical purchasers - cops going to be interested in what the other 200 did.

# ? Jan 8, 2014 20:37

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

The money train keeps on a-rollin'...

HuffPo posted:

Colorado Recreational Marijuana Sales Exceed $5 Million In First Week

Colorado marijuana dispensaries made huge sales in the first week of legal recreational marijuana.

Owners of the 37 new dispensaries around the state reported first week retail sales to The Huffington Post that, when added together, were roughly $5 million.

That's a lot of green for Colorado's legal weed.

Colorado, the first state to allow retail recreational marijuana sales to adults age 21 and older, has projected nearly $600 million in combined wholesale and retail marijuana sales annually. The state, which expects to collect nearly $70 million in tax revenue from pot sales this year, won't have its first official glimpse at sales figures until Feb. 20, when businesses are required to file January tax reports, according to Julie Postlethwait of the state Marijuana Enforcement Division.

Denver's 9News was first to report statewide retail sales on New Year's Day, the first day legal pot shops were allowed to operate, exceeded $1 million. Interest dropped in the days that followed, according to shop owners, but many reported customers still waiting in lines out the door.

"Every day that we've been in business since Jan. 1 has been better than my best day of business ever," Andy Williams, owner of Denver's Medicine Man dispensary, told The Huffington Post.

Owners of larger shops told HuffPost they sold from 50 pounds to 60 pounds of marijuana in the first week. Smaller shops sold 20 pounds to 30 pounds, proprietors said.

Under state law, Colorado residents may legally buy up to one ounce of marijuana in a transaction. Tourists can purchase up to one-fourth ounce.

But the initial rush to buy legal weed was so great that many shops imposed caps on the amount each customer could buy, or raised prices to curb demand and stave off a possible shortage. So far, none of the retailers reported supply problems.

Prices also were boosted by the state's 25 percent tax on retail purchases, including a 15 percent excise tax and a 10 percent sales tax. Voters approved the levy in November. Local taxes can add more to what customers pay.

Shop owners said their sales were biggest the first day. Each day since, sales have been roughly half the New Year's Day volume, the business owners said.

One-eighth of an ounce of marijuana was selling for an average of $65 around the first of the year, according to Marijuana.com.

Despite the surging sales, Joaquin Ortega, co-owner of Denver Kush Club dispensary, was quick to note to HuffPost that federal laws against marijuana sales and possession present obstacles to Colorado's legal retailers. The Justice Department has said it won't challenge legalization laws in Washington state and Colorado as long as the states prevent out-of-state distribution, sales to minors and drugged driving, among other conditions.

Still, the federal prohibition means banks won't accept marijuana businesses for traditional bank accounts, and retailers said they can't take advantage of traditional business tax writeoffs.

"People think we all became millionaires," Ortega said. "But as a business owner, I can't write anything off for the last three years."

Banks have said they fear they could be implicated as money launderers if they offer traditional banking services to the pot businesses.

Marijuana businesses often cannot accept credit cards, leaving them to conduct transactions in cash. They say that's a burden for taxes and payroll, and a safety risk.

Monday night, Denver City Council urged banking regulators to grant Colorado marijuana businesses access to the federal banking system, so they can use the same banking services as other businesses.

Rep. Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.) is seeking reformed access to banking for marijuana businesses with his Marijuana Business Access to Banking Act (H.R. 2652), which would create protections for banks that offer services to state-sanctioned marijuana-related businesses.

"The banking legislation sponsored by Congressman Ed Perlmutter is a common sense approach to bring financial legitimacy to the legal marijuana industry," Denver City Councilman Albus Brooks told HuffPost. "It's ludicrous and unsustainable to force large neighborhood businesses to operate entirely with cash. Congress needs to act, and act now."

The Wall Street Journal reported Monday that the Department of Justice is also drafting legal guidance on how banks can work with marijuana businesses in states like Colorado and Washington, which both legalized recreational marijuana for adults 21 and over.

Dispensaries in Washington state are expected to open later in 2014.

Source

# ? Jan 9, 2014 16:13

NurhacisUrn: Jul 18, 2013; All I can think about is your wife and a horse.
We are working on some SERIOUS SHIT in here.

Nice find Soul, please sir let that be the sound of dominoes and Eek-A-Mouse across this beleaguered nation.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 16:28

brokowski: May 13, 2013

Here is a good story from a humboldt county weekly paper on legalization in Washington and its effects on the economy here.
[url] http://www.northcoastjournal.com/humboldt/this-is-what-legalization-looks-like/Content?oid=2463723[/url]

# ? Jan 9, 2014 17:56

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

TheRamblingSoul posted:

The money train keeps on a-rollin'...

Source

Is there some sort of law requiring every article about marijuana to contain at least one stupid pun? "A lot of green" my rear end.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:05

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

showbiz_liz posted:

Is there some sort of law requiring every article about marijuana to contain at least one stupid pun? "A lot of green" my rear end.

Until weed becomes a normal everyday thing like coffee instead of a stigmatized Other-ized drug, then yes.

[e]: If this was about coffee legalization, you bet your rear end you'd have X-teenth articles about coffee entrepreneurs starting from the "grounds" up.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:16

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

Does anyone know who in congress is pro-legalization?

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:29

rscott: Dec 10, 2009

Putting stupid puns in headlines and lead ins to articles is like one of the few pleasures an editor gets you guys.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:38

AreWeDrunkYet: Jul 8, 2006

TheRamblingSoul posted:

The money train keeps on a-rollin'...

$70m isn't a small amount of money, but keep in mind CO's budget is $20b. Not that it won't influence policy decisions, but I don't know how much of a difference 0.35% of the budget is going to make for other states considering legalization - especially since CO is likely to see the most revenue from being first. If/when the floodgates open, there's not going to be any gains from tourism really and revenue may very well decrease as prices come down.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:38

Teriyaki Koinku: Nov 25, 2008; Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

$70m isn't a small amount of money, but keep in mind CO's budget is $20b. Not that it won't influence policy decisions, but I don't know how much of a difference 0.35% of the budget is going to make for other states considering legalization - especially since CO is likely to see the most revenue from being first. If/when the floodgates open, there's not going to be any gains from tourism really and revenue may very well decrease as prices come down.

Hey, at least it's $70 mil in new money for the state as opposed to zero from the black market.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:52

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

showbiz_liz posted:

Is there some sort of law requiring every article about marijuana to contain at least one stupid pun? "A lot of green" my rear end.

This has been due for at least the last 30 years.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:52

Necc0: Jun 30, 2005; by exmarx; Broken Cake

edit: nm I misread the article

# ? Jan 9, 2014 18:58

Mrit: Sep 26, 2007; by exmarx; Grimey Drawer

# ? Jan 9, 2014 19:01

NathanScottPhillips: Jul 23, 2009

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

$70m isn't a small amount of money, but keep in mind CO's budget is $20b. Not that it won't influence policy decisions, but I don't know how much of a difference 0.35% of the budget is going to make for other states considering legalization - especially since CO is likely to see the most revenue from being first. If/when the floodgates open, there's not going to be any gains from tourism really and revenue may very well decrease as prices come down.

Small towns are the hardest up for cash and weed shops will allow them to add in a little more sales tax for themselves. Also the $55 an eighth a tourist spends on weed during their trip is nothing compared to one night in a hotel or two nights worth of meals. Personally, I think $70m/year is on the very low end.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 19:12

superjew: Sep 5, 2007; No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!

How much does the state save by not incarcerating non-violent offenders?

# ? Jan 9, 2014 19:26

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Let's be realistic here: how much money and property were police departments seizing for themselves when they busted people for having marijuana?

# ? Jan 9, 2014 19:38

Zwabu: Aug 7, 2006

So did medical marijuana basically disappear overnight in CO and WA? Did those dispensaries just increase inventory and retool as regular pot stores?

I'm trying to envision the Phillip Morris ad campaigns, the TV commercials for pot with smiling yuppies out for a night on the town, brosephs watching the football game etc. Will they be able to blaze one on the commercial or will they just be holding unlit joints like a dork?

Will we have Martha Stewart Rosemary Hash Brownie recipies in magazines and on cooking shows? Oh Brave New World! :allears:

# ? Jan 9, 2014 19:58

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Zwabu posted:

So did medical marijuana basically disappear overnight in CO and WA? Did those dispensaries just increase inventory and retool as regular pot stores?

I'm trying to envision the Phillip Morris ad campaigns, the TV commercials for pot with smiling yuppies out for a night on the town, brosephs watching the football game etc. Will they be able to blaze one on the commercial or will they just be holding unlit joints like a dork?

Will we have Martha Stewart Rosemary Hash Brownie recipies in magazines and on cooking shows? Oh Brave New World!

It's going to be fun to have people complain about how all of this mainstream weed ruined the culture.

It'll almost be as funny as watching people now complain about taxes on weed after campaigning that weed would pay for itself in taxes if legalized.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 20:00

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Zwabu posted:

So did medical marijuana basically disappear overnight in CO and WA? Did those dispensaries just increase inventory and retool as regular pot stores?

Absolutely not. Only a few of them even opened up retail sales.

Many of them believe they'll either be safer against being a DEA target than a retail or medical/retail store. Others think they'll be able to continue to get business from people who simply won't ever bother to come into a regular retail store. And a few seem to think that eventually medical weed will be covered by insurance, and that insurance companies would prefer to pay out to a medical store rather than a retail store.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 20:01

Yiggy: Sep 12, 2004; "Imagination is not enough. You have to have knowledge too, and an experience of the oddity of life."

Zwabu posted:

So did medical marijuana basically disappear overnight in CO and WA? Did those dispensaries just increase inventory and retool as regular pot stores?

No, most of the dispensaries didn't go though the process of retail licensing. So in Denver most of the dispensaries were actually for people with medical card only, and so they didn't experience lines or congestion really. Some smaller markets had some medical but no retail dispensaries. They're still on the same business model supplied by the same medical growers. Over time you might start seeing more and more go retail, but at that point retail supply will probably be established and it won't matter much.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 20:27

platzapS: Aug 4, 2007

showbiz_liz posted:

Is there some sort of law requiring every article about marijuana to contain at least one stupid pun? "A lot of green" my rear end.

They should just get it all out of their system at once.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 21:18

KingEup: Nov 18, 2004; I am a REAL ADDICT
(to threadshitting)

Please ask me for my google inspired wisdom on shit I know nothing about. Actually, you don't even have to ask.

From the Washington Times comes this gem:

quote:

activists are totally uneducated about the severe consequences of smoking pot.

Cully Stimson was a prosecutor in drug court in San Diego and has served as a military trial judge.

�There�s already a significant number of D.C. residents involved in the criminal justice system,� the senior legal fellow at the Heritage Foundation told me in an interview. �By telling them that marijuana is a medicine and not a drug, then legalizing it, you�re going to have a stoned, dependent community that is even worse than today.�

Mr. Stimson, a former defense attorney, has written extensively on drug policies and the dangers of marijuana. He predicts that Colorado�s social experiment will fail badly.

�Nothing positive will come out of it,� he stated. �You�re going to have lower test scores and a class of people who are unemployable because they are stoned all the time. People are going to die on ski slopes, on the roads.�

The think tank expert further explained, �Countries that have legalized marijuana have experienced negative social effects. They�ve seen more dependency � marijuana is highly addictive and a gateway to harder drugs � and more crime and a bigger black market because the drug cartels undercut legal sellers and also target youth.�

Marijuana proponents who claim that pot is no different than alcohol are ignorant of the science. The body can process alcohol, and in many studies, a few drinks have been proven to have health benefits. Marijuana, on the other hand, is simply a toxin. Pot is more similar to heroin and cocaine than alcohol in how it affects the body. http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/8/egalizing-marijuana-recreational-use-colorado-wash/?page=1

# ? Jan 9, 2014 21:30

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

KingEup posted:

From the Washington Times comes this gem:

As an aside, what's happening with the Washington Times now that Sun Myung Moon died? I was under the impressions that the paper lost millions a year and was propped solely as a personal mouthpiece of the moonies.

# ? Jan 9, 2014 21:43

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Dusseldorf posted:

As an aside, what's happening with the Washington Times now that Sun Myung Moon died? I was under the impressions that the paper lost millions a year and was propped solely as a personal mouthpiece of the moonies.

Well that was in 2012 and his church seems to keep it going? They actually launched their own Fox News clone tv network in the summer of 2013 even, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_America_News

# ? Jan 9, 2014 21:53

BottledBodhisvata: Jul 26, 2013; by Lowtax

KingEup posted:

From the Washington Times comes this gem:

This girl needs to get high.

VVVVV---Wasn't Nancy Grace saying the same poo poo?

BottledBodhisvata fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jan 9, 2014

# ? Jan 9, 2014 22:45

Kyrosiris: May 24, 2006; You try to be happy when everyone is summoning you everywhere to "be their friend".

KingEup posted:

From the Washington Times comes this gem:

There was a similar piece of tripe on the Dallas Morning News yesterday that basically amounted to "poor blacks will just spend their money on getting high if it's legal!".

# ? Jan 9, 2014 22:48

showbiz_liz: Jun 2, 2008

"The body can process alcohol, and in many studies, a few drinks have been proven to have health benefits. Marijuana, on the other hand, is simply a toxin."

1. What
2. Alcohol is processed by the liver specifically because it is a toxin
3. What

# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:08

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

"Toxin" is my favorite nonsense word ever. There are entire industries dedicated to cleaning out all of your "toxins" and they're all bullshit. We know what things are toxic to humans and we put big giant warning labels on those things so that people don't consume them.

It's very clever, it's not exactly saying "toxic" because obviously anyone claiming weed is toxic is just flat out wrong. But "toxin" is vague and using it contributes to FUD quite nicely.

# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:14

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 10:41

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

WampaLord posted:

"Toxin" is my favorite nonsense word ever. There are entire industries dedicated to cleaning out all of your "toxins" and they're all bullshit. We know what things are toxic to humans and we put big giant warning labels on those things so that people don't consume them.

It's very clever, it's not exactly saying "toxic" because obviously anyone claiming weed is toxic is just flat out wrong. But "toxin" is vague and using it contributes to FUD quite nicely.

Whenever you see someone using toxin and toxic who isn't a scientist, first try replacing every use of "toxin" with "demon" and "toxic" with "demonic" and see if what they said makes more sense then.

# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:32

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