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Aziraphale posted:Is anyone else getting mad reading Vulkan Lives? Don't Read Vulkan Lives.
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Jan 12, 2014 08:18
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I just started it and I kinda had a laugh at how much of a drama queen Vulkan is right from the bat. Just gets blown across the battlefield by the missile barrage and sees his dead captain and goes straight into the big WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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Jan 12, 2014 08:50
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VanSandman posted:Don't Read Vulkan Lives. I already spent 16 bucks on it, so I'm committed 
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Jan 12, 2014 09:05
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hopterque posted:Uh, there were "wolves" before Leman Russ came, remember that humans had been living there for ages before Leman Russ came in the early imperium/pre crusade years. Yes, it's exactly this. Fenris was settled during the Dark Age of Technology, and the genetic engineers of that time created the Canis Helix to give the settlers the ability to survive in that very harsh environment. For a portion of the recipients, the Helix caused them to turn into wolves, or possibly give birth to wolves, that isn't specified (for good reason  ). But regardless, the wolves are descended from human settlers who overexpressed the Canis Helix, not from failed Marine recruits - those are the Wulfen.
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Jan 12, 2014 14:01
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Kylaer posted:Yes, it's exactly this. Fenris was settled during the Dark Age of Technology, and the genetic engineers of that time created the Canis Helix to give the settlers the ability to survive in that very harsh environment. For a portion of the recipients, the Helix caused them to turn into wolves, or possibly give birth to wolves, that isn't specified (for good reason That must be what is meant when it's said 'there are no wolves on fenris.' What the poo poo is this? Is it some alternate universe where Horus wins? I see it's not of the Horus Heresy series, but of an Imperium Secundus, so the second founding? Also, BlackLibrary must be having some problems, because I can't find an ebook of Eisenhorn to save my life. Instead I get a ton of French and Spanish language short stories about Raevenor. lite_sleepr fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jan 12, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 14:20
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Aziraphale posted:What the poo poo is this? Is it some alternate universe where Horus wins? I see it's not of the Horus Heresy series, but of an Imperium Secundus, so the second founding? Did you read the description? It's what Guilliman does since the warp storms cut off Ultramar from the rest of the galaxy. Apparently they assume that Terra fell so he starts a new Empire and a bunch of people show up (including Vulkan). I haven't read it yet, so I don't know how Sanguinus gets from this second empire back to Terra in time to get murdered by Horus.
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Jan 12, 2014 21:01
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Potential Spoilers, if you care about that kind of thing: In various other boooks, Lorgar and the Word Bearers raise a giant warp storm and manage to cut Guilliman's Five Hundred Worlds of Ultramar off from the outside universe entirely. They can't communicate outside of it. They can't even see the Astronomicon to try and escape it. Completely isolated in the storm, Guilliman has no idea how the rest of the Imperium is doing. For all he knows, the Emperor is already dead. Imperium Secundus is Guilliman's last ditch effort to preserve the Imperium by creating a "backup Imperium" out of Ultramar to maintain a line of succession in the event that they find that they are all that's left of the Imperium when the warpstorm dies. The book is called "Unremembered Empire" because Guilliman's hope is that when the warp storm dies the Imperium will still be there. If that's the case he'll just quietly put the Imperium Secundus down and then walk away from it while pretending it never happened, making it an unremembered empire.
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Jan 12, 2014 21:08
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Aziraphale posted:Also, BlackLibrary must be having some problems, because I can't find an ebook of Eisenhorn to save my life. Instead I get a ton of French and Spanish language short stories about Raevenor. Which reminds me - never, ever read something from Abnett in Spanish. All the amazing play-on-words he does is completely lost in these translations, since they just go straight for the word he's actually replacing.
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Jan 13, 2014 00:02
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Kylaer posted:For a portion of the recipients, the Helix caused them to turn into wolves, or possibly give birth to wolves, Aziraphale posted:What the poo poo is this? Is it some alternate universe where Horus wins? I see it's not of the Horus Heresy series, but of an Imperium Secundus, so the second founding?
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Jan 13, 2014 14:39
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Azran posted:Which reminds me - never, ever read something from Abnett in Spanish. All the amazing play-on-words he does is completely lost in these translations, since they just go straight for the word he's actually replacing. I think it depends on how good the translator is rather than the language, but yeah, the spanish version don't do justice to Abnett, it sucks but it's pretty common. I have a lot of black library books in spanish and I switched to the original version in ebooks to avoid crappy translations.
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Jan 13, 2014 15:02
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I had no sleep tonight. I foolishly sat down in be around midnight with a copy of Helsreach a friend gave me and decided hey, I don't like Black Templars, but I might as well take a peek at this. Armageddon, and stuff. The next time I looked up from the book, it was getting light outside the window. It's a very intense book, clearly a Stalingrad-themed last stand epic. It's one of the best books in detailing how divorced Space Marines are from humans, enough to make you wonder if it is only the sheer weight of tradition that keeps them protecting mankind instead of simply reaving their way around. Orks aren't funny in this book; they are like a hateful force of nature. At the same time, it gives Depth to the Black Templars in a very powerful way. I'd expect maybe a Salamanders or even a Space Wolves apothecary to be broken to the point of tears and nearing a breakdown as he harvests the geneseed of his whole dying company, but never a Black Templar. And yet it makes sense, because the Crusade is all they have, and they are removing themselves from it. The attrition between their way of war and the Salamanders is also handled tastefully: strong enough to matter, but not veering into "So if Wolverine fights Lobo, who'd win?"
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Jan 13, 2014 19:16
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Echoing the love for "Scars". Chris Wraight is one of my favorite BL authors right now. I put him on that solid second tier with guys like French & Mitchell. I liked his space wolf books and the Scars are a similar bunch and he gives them a good treatment. If this was an audition for a full HH scars line then I think he deserves to pen one.
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Jan 13, 2014 19:53
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Sephyr posted:I had no sleep tonight. I foolishly sat down in be around midnight with a copy of Helsreach a friend gave me and decided hey, I don't like Black Templars, but I might as well take a peek at this. Armageddon, and stuff. I really enjoyed the sequel as well. Unfortunately for me, I read Helsreach after Blood and honor, but it doesn't really matter. ADB is a fantastic writer of 40k.
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Jan 13, 2014 22:00
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I think it would be fair to just say "ADB is a fantastic writer."
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Jan 13, 2014 22:27
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Sephyr posted:I had no sleep tonight. I foolishly sat down in be around midnight with a copy of Helsreach a friend gave me and decided hey, I don't like Black Templars, but I might as well take a peek at this. Armageddon, and stuff. I found that the best part about Helsreach is how utterly flawed and dysfunctional the Black Templars. I thought ADB did a great job highlighting the fact that though they're genetically modified super soldiers armed with the best that the Imperium has to offer, they're also emotionally stunted manbabies and have trouble adapting to other people's opinions or objectives. Chapters like the Black Templars are divorced from humanity simply because they chose to be. A chapter like the Salamanders, the Space Wolves or the Ultramarines would be happy working with the various elements of the Imperium and solving a bigger problem together whereas Grimaldus never compromises and will break everybody's toys if he doesn't get his way.
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Jan 13, 2014 23:58
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Kegslayer posted:I found that the best part about Helsreach is how utterly flawed and dysfunctional the Black Templars. I thought ADB did a great job highlighting the fact that though they're genetically modified super soldiers armed with the best that the Imperium has to offer, they're also emotionally stunted manbabies and have trouble adapting to other people's opinions or objectives. "Take a child, allow it to develop without ever understanding the frailties of human weakness, and force it to grow through the ingesting nothing but the virtues of obedience, loyalty, and combat prowess. Surround it in ceramite. Arm it with fire. Tell it that it answers to no authority beyond its equally powerful, equally unrestrained brothers. That is a Space Marine."
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Jan 14, 2014 00:05
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Kegslayer posted:
This makes me curious, how would other people rank Astartes chapters in terms of not being dickholes? My list starting with the ones you mentioned would probably go something like this-- Tier 1: Salamanders, Space Wolves Tier 2: Ultramarines with Tier 1 being the chapters who retain a surprising amount of empathy for its own sake, and Tier 2 being the ones who are more aloof but who are actively engaged in being benevolent guardians to the planet(s) under their rule. I don't know how many tiers I'd put, but poo poo like the Marines Malevolent and Minotaurs would be at the very bottom, with stuff like the Templars being in the bottom half but not at the bottom.
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Jan 14, 2014 02:54
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JerryLee posted:This makes me curious, how would other people rank Astartes chapters in terms of not being dickholes? My list starting with the ones you mentioned would probably go something like this-- The Iron Hands would be pretty low on the list, with their mass executions and sending their allies on suicide missions.
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Jan 14, 2014 03:25
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I don't know how one ranks the Space Wolves as more benevolent than the Ultramarines.
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Jan 14, 2014 03:46
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Uroboros posted:I don't know how one ranks the Space Wolves as more benevolent than the Ultramarines. The Space Wolves like people, and if they don't they're not all superior about it. Some Ultramarines are reeeeal dicks, though. Not all, just some. It's the metal rod up their rear end that does it.
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Jan 14, 2014 03:50
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Aren't Blood Angels also really nice and super compassionate (when not frothing mad and drinkign blood and stuff)?
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Jan 14, 2014 04:48
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Would the Ultramarines have gone to war with the Inquisition over the purge of Armageddon?
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Jan 14, 2014 04:50
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Khizan posted:Would the Ultramarines have gone to war with the Inquisition over the purge of Armageddon? No, they'd have pulled their weight to compromise, and resolve the situation with less casualties on all sides.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:07
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Nephilm posted:No, they'd have pulled their weight to compromise, and resolve the situation with less casualties on all sides. Exactly how do you compromise on genocide to silence a people? I mean what, the Ultramarines only let them kill 1 billion people instead of 2 billion? The Inquisition lets the knowledge that some of the Emperor's sons fell to chaos and still roam the galaxy become common knowledge at a slower rate? What is the middle ground here, and how does it still not make the Ultramarines dickbags?
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Jan 14, 2014 05:38
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Fried Chicken posted:Exactly how do you compromise on genocide to silence a people? Honestly after the battle was done the Ultramarines would probably pack up and leave. Not their territory, not their problem.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:43
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I'd have to imagine the Blood Drinkers would be bottom tier. They only save people to use them as walking juice boxes. I'd also probably put The Black Dragons as a Tier 3. Sure they pretty much sacraficed their humanity and became monsters, but its to protect the people of the Imperium. Not sure where I'd put the Grey Knights. Probably mid-tier.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:43
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VanSandman posted:Honestly after the battle was done the Ultramarines would probably pack up and leave. Not their territory, not their problem. The Ultramarines wouldn't have abandoned the battlements and taken higher casualties to keep the population from seeing anything either. The Wolves took the harder method and sacrificed marines to save lives. Ultrasmurfs wouldn't do that EyeRChris posted:Not sure where I'd put the Grey Knights. Probably mid-tier.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:45
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EyeRChris posted:I'd also probably put The Black Dragons as a Tier 3. Sure they pretty much sacraficed their humanity and became monsters, but its to protect the people of the Imperium. This reminds me, no one should read Death of Antagonis. Ever.
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Jan 14, 2014 05:49
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Has anyone else read the ADB advent story yet? Abaddon:Chosen of Chaos? It's real good. I mean, it's only 3 pages long, but if that is how the Warmaster chronicles will be, I'm stoked. Abaddon as paternal and casually cruel works so much better than the near rabid dog he is in the Horus heresy opening novels or battle fleet Gothic books. ADB also drops like 7 potential plothooks in those 3 pages to, so as an example of things to come, hell yeah. I'll stop now because its so short if I comment more I'll give it all away
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Jan 14, 2014 06:01
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Fried Chicken posted:Exactly how do you compromise on genocide to silence a people? The Ultramarines have the resources of a legion, an empire of 500 worlds and a shitload of allies and goodwill so they have much more negotiating power than the Space Wolves. It's hard to imagine that the Inquisition would have acted the same way but given that the Ultramarine are pragmatists, I assume they would have made deals with other inquisitors, sold out the survivors to save more lives somewhere else or just outright have assassinated anyone who opposed.
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Jan 14, 2014 06:57
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Fried Chicken posted:The Ultramarines wouldn't have abandoned the battlements and taken higher casualties to keep the population from seeing anything either. The Wolves took the harder method and sacrificed marines to save lives. Ultrasmurfs wouldn't do that The sad thing is, the Inquisition is right to be paranoid, malevolent fucks who will unflinchingly drat a million to save a billion. Considering what they're up against, if they didn't, everyone would be dead already. The Wolves have the luxury of compassion and humanity in a galaxy that works tirelessly to turn those traits into deadly vices.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:43
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Cream_Filling posted:Aren't Blood Angels also really nice and super compassionate (when not frothing mad and drinkign blood and stuff)? I've never heard about this one way or another (probably because good quality fiction about the Blood Angels or successors seems to be really hard to come by). The closest thing I've heard is that they were really looked up to because of Sanguinius's legend as one of the Emperor's most noble and benevolent sons, but nothing about how you can expect them to treat people in practice. Some of their successors go pretty far off the handle, like the aforementioned anecdotes about the Blood Drinkers. And it's interesting to hear about the Black Dragons, I didn't know much of anything about them except that they are a cursed founding chapter and the Inquisition has its eyes on them because they like to grow bone spines (which does start to make them cooler in an enemy-of-my-enemy kind of way). VanSandman posted:The sad thing is, the Inquisition is right to be paranoid, malevolent fucks who will unflinchingly drat a million to save a billion. Considering what they're up against, if they didn't, everyone would be dead already. The Wolves have the luxury of compassion and humanity in a galaxy that works tirelessly to turn those traits into deadly vices. I would argue that the Wolves actually show that there's another way and that the Inquisition is overzealous and errs too readily on the side of atrocity. Disaster hasn't resulted because the Wolves are bros, either after Armageddon in particular or the ten-thousand year period in general.
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Jan 14, 2014 07:59
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JerryLee posted:
It's a legion of armored up Barakas from Mortal Kombat
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Jan 14, 2014 08:14
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JerryLee posted:I've never heard about this one way or another (probably because good quality fiction about the Blood Angels or successors seems to be really hard to come by). The closest thing I've heard is that they were really looked up to because of Sanguinius's legend as one of the Emperor's most noble and benevolent sons, but nothing about how you can expect them to treat people in practice. I think the Blood Angels are suppose to be pretty chill since they're renowned for their nobility, grace and honour and Dante is a champ. Your ordinary trooper isn't going to know about the Red Thirst or understand who the Death Company are so I can't imagine anyone would have problems with them. The legions that are benevolent can probably afford to be while those that don't have the resources of a First Legion like the Celestial Lions would probably have difficulty surviving in the 40k Imperium. Speaking of which I didn't realise there was a sequel for Helsreach with the Celestial Lions and the Black Templars. Is it worth reading?
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Jan 14, 2014 11:33
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Kegslayer posted:Speaking of which I didn't realise there was a sequel for Helsreach with the Celestial Lions and the Black Templars. Is it worth reading? I sat down and read it in one sitting last night. It's about 40ish pages on a kindle, but I thought it was a great follow up to Helsreach and offered some neat story points. The Celestial Lion story circle was also pretty great. I actually have a question for anyone else who read the Armageddon books: Is that stormtrooper captain Andrej a perpetual ? I mean he just keeps popping up and that little bit with him on the Eternal Crusader in the end was really out of place. Immanentized fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jan 14, 2014 |
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Jan 14, 2014 14:54
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handbanana125 posted:I actually have a question for anyone else who read the Armageddon books: Is that stormtrooper captain Andrej a perpetual ? I mean he just keeps popping up and that little bit with him on the Eternal Crusader in the end was really out of place. Nah, he is just some well-placed comedy in an otherwise really grim set of stories. The final joke is that the story ends really bitter with Grimaldus saying that even that funny comedic relief guy dies in the end, and then literally on the last page he pops up again complaining about how he isn't getting retirement pay because some dumbass Space Marine hammered his name onto a big monument and now he needs to run back down there and cross the name out. It's the weird dark comedy that makes ADB books so good.
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Jan 14, 2014 15:25
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Nah, he is just some well-placed comedy in an otherwise really grim set of stories. The final joke is that the story ends really bitter with Grimaldus saying that even that funny comedic relief guy dies in the end, and then literally on the last page he pops up again complaining about how he isn't getting retirement pay because some dumbass Space Marine hammered his name onto a big monument and now he needs to run back down there and cross the name out. It's the weird dark comedy that makes ADB books so good. I figured he was being played for the comedy, but he seems to make it through the heaviest fighting without a scratch in both sets of stories. Maybe I'm being a giant goon, but I couldn't help but think ADB was doing something funky with him. Adventures of Grim and Andrej trilogy 2016?
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Jan 14, 2014 15:35
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Nah, he is just some well-placed comedy in an otherwise really grim set of stories. The final joke is that the story ends really bitter with Grimaldus saying that even that funny comedic relief guy dies in the end, and then literally on the last page he pops up again complaining about how he isn't getting retirement pay because some dumbass Space Marine hammered his name onto a big monument and now he needs to run back down there and cross the name out. It's the weird dark comedy that makes ADB books so good. To add to the grimness, the female Guardsman apparently died as well. It's been a while since I read it, but I recall something along the lines of Grimaldus: "Did you find her?" Andrej: "Yes"  Grimaldus: "Awkward silence" Does BL bundle the Advent stories afterwards? I'd like to read them, but I'd rather not buy them one by one.
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Jan 14, 2014 15:35
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Kegslayer posted:The Ultramarines have the resources of a legion, an empire of 500 worlds and a shitload of allies and goodwill so they have much more negotiating power than the Space Wolves. It's hard to imagine that the Inquisition would have acted the same way but given that the Ultramarine are pragmatists, I assume they would have made deals with other inquisitors, sold out the survivors to save more lives somewhere else or just outright have assassinated anyone who opposed. I thought that the Ultramarines were only chapter-strength and that their 500-world empire had been diminished in the Heresy and then split among their successor chapters, though they have an easy time in calling for the aid of their pals. Given that their primarch was the guy who went out of their way to have Astartes be controllable by the High Lords of Terra (The Shadow Crusade alone wiped 100 worlds clean of line, and the warp storm that came later probably didn't help), I don't think they'd be starting crap with the Inquisition, let alone assassinating anyone in the Imperial chain of command. They may feel awful about it, but they'd likely wash their hands of the matter.
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Jan 14, 2014 15:53
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By the "resources of a legion", I'm assuming he meant that the Ultramarines are the agreed-upon chief successor chapter to the original Ultramarines Legion. The chapter master of the Ultramarines is a de facto legion master through the strength of his authority as the successor of Guilliman, and the chapter masters of Ultramarine-founded chapters see him as their "spiritual liege". I'm not sure about this, though. Such a described legion-emulating structure is more associated with the Dark Angels.
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