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Ceciltron re: the boss: http://youtu.be/1aJCrMDl-H4
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Jan 21, 2014 21:53
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Ceciltron posted:
Cecil, a few things: Good job on getting out of a situation you clearly hated, BUT! 1. Do not look for an apartment. That is way premature. 2. I admire your desire to see a lawyer and to fight it out with this lady, but know your visa is going to get canceled...and are they going to give you a release before that happens? YOU NEED TO MAKE AN EXIT PLAN. Go home, change your passport number, and come back at the end of New Year.
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Jan 21, 2014 21:59
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As long as you lawyer up and get that release letter you should be able to go to HK and apply for a new Z with your new company. Just make sure they put HK on the forms for where you will be applying. You're not gonna be able to stay in country between jobs though. Actually I lied. It's possible that your lawyer can try to force them to transfer your RP to your new employer, instead of just releasing you, but uhh hope you find a good lawyer to get a lovely employer to do that. FearCotton posted:Go home, change your passport number, and come back at the end of New Year. Don't do this nonsense though Arakan fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 21, 2014 |
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Jan 21, 2014 23:01
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By refusing to work you have now broken your contract. Whether or not the employer has broken it too is something which would take effort to prove but your breach is clear, plain and provides an immediate basis for action. Current employer is now under no obligation to release you and has every right to report you the relevant authorities. You have hosed yourself harder than they ever could. If you can wriggle out of this by getting a new job I will be very impressed but your thoughts at this stage should not be of getting apartments, simply of buying plane tickets. Does your "new" employer have a full and complete picture of your visa situation? Arakan posted:Don't do this nonsense though gently caress are you doing up and posting at 0600?
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Jan 21, 2014 23:19
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Hey man good job telling your boss to gently caress off for being an rear end in a top hat to your translating girlfriend. I will be in Japan from February 3 to 9 but I'm sure the hk goon refuge will host for you. Hopefully you have saved yourself some nest egg money but if you have trouble with airfare, I am willing to spot you a return spring airfare shenyang to hk. Go get that z visa, new job and move up on the teaching career track. You have the backing of a internet stranger forum.
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Jan 21, 2014 23:24
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GuestBob posted:gently caress are you doing up and posting at 0600? Like I would be awake at 6, in America til next month.
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Jan 21, 2014 23:31
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Ceciltron posted:Today I had the gall and nerve to present my contract and ask for two days off this week. I had made it clear before hand that I would request this. My girlfriend was around so she came by after work to translate for me. Move back to America and bring your girlfriend. Problem solved.
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Jan 22, 2014 00:19
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GuestBob posted:
if they refuse to release him, he may have to do this nonsense.  I think if you're refused it becomes tied to your visa, so just doing an HK run for a new Z/followed by an RP when he returns to the mainland wouldn't be possible. They may not want the bad press, though, and so MIGHT release rather than report him. When our school fired a (laughably awful) teacher last year they reported her and pulled her visa; when she went to HK with new employment ready to go she was denied and only granted a very limited tourist visa to come back and get her stuff. In her case it was a warranted firing (as opposed to your truly awful situation Ceciltron), but nevertheless you're now in a very similar situation. edit: my grammar was sad, and also ^I agree with Cab. Move on and be happy! FearCotton fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 00:50
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I can sorta understand why, but  at the idea of bringing your girlfriend to work to mediate between you and your boss
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Jan 22, 2014 01:20
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Jesus christ, does this sort of thing happen in non-teaching jobs? I remember hearing similar stories from people working at Kai En English before the owners abruptly closed all of the branches and fled the country with customer money.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:05
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I think you will find that the barrier to entry to a particular role is inversely proportionate to the likelihood of this kind of poo poo happening. It's unfortunate for the genuinely good/committed/dedicated teachers out there that so many people are capable of having the base requirements, so this kind of thing can just carry on because, hey, there's no shortage of supply of stupid laowais if we need to replace the current one who doesn't like being treated like poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2014 02:34
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Ceciltron posted:Today I had the gall and nerve to present my contract and ask for two days off this week. I had made it clear before hand that I would request this. My girlfriend was around so she came by after work to translate for me. GuestBob posted:By refusing to work you have now broken your contract. Whether or not the employer has broken it too is something which would take effort to prove but your breach is clear, plain and provides an immediate basis for action. I understand you are pissed Cecil but you need to get out of the country. If your boss turns you over to the police for this stuff you are totally boned. If you are at a hotel, the hotel registered you with the local police so they know exactly where you are. You need to get out of the country. Just so people in this thread know, this was literally The Worst Thing Someone Could Have Done. Go and beg for forgiveness. That or get out. Go home and change your passport number if you ever want to come back.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:06
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goldboilermark posted:I understand you are pissed Cecil but you need to get out of the country. If your boss turns you over to the police for this stuff you are totally boned. If you are at a hotel, the hotel registered you with the local police so they know exactly where you are. You need to get out of the country. Thankfully my girlfriend registered the hotel room. edit: So I really should leave, huh? I wish it hadn't come to this, but I was really convinced that my boss was going to call the police on me and have me evicted. Ceciltron fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 03:10
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You guys are so loving melodramatic my goodness. Step 1 consult your lawyer, step 2 don't take anyone's advice in this thread.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:12
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They are going to report you missing then. And if your visa is cancelled, you are in the country illegally. If you try to leave, it can be a pretty big fine. Last year happened with someone with my company and was over 10,000RMB when they tried to leave. Your company owns you and if you cut ties with them, they cut ties with you. And then you're illegal.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:13
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Arakan posted:You guys are so loving melodramatic my goodness. Step 1 consult your lawyer, step 2 don't take anyone's advice in this thread. It's a little late for that.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:14
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What makes you think a shady language mill is going to immediately go to the PSB and cancel your RP, particularly if they are contacted by a lawyer on your behalf? Especially if either the contract you signed was in clear breach of the law and/or they have been breaching said contract. I really hope you have contacted that lawyer by now though.Ceciltron posted:edit: So I really should leave, huh? I wish it hadn't come to this, but I was really convinced that my boss was going to call the police on me and have me evicted. It really depends when you contacted the lawyer and what the lawyer said. If you still haven't and don't want to then welp, you aren't going to be able to navigate this process on your own. Arakan fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 03:18
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It can't be that shady if they can offer RPs. This isn't Web International Kid English that is getting college students over here illegally. If they are using actual RPs, some company was at least legit. If he didn't show up for work, he broke his contract and was in the wrong. It doesn't matter if they were breaking contract, no one over here cares about that. And I assume his company has more money than he does to deal with the legal ramifications that could possibly ensue. If you are on a RP, your company owns you and is responsible for you while you are in China. They are supposed to know where you are at all times...leaving the city? My company has us sign something saying where we are going and when we are coming back. If you have told them to bugger off and that you're finished with them, they are not going to take responsibility for you anymore. Why would they? They will cancel the visa and wash their hands of you. Report the cancelled visa to the police station and the foreign registry. You're now illegal. This is how it works. I've seen it done. It's a dodgy thing to get out of your RP or transfer it and this certainly isn't the way to do it. So either leave or ask for forgiveness. You don't tell your boss in China to gently caress off. You just don't.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:25
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LentThem posted:Jesus christ, does this sort of thing happen in non-teaching jobs? I remember hearing similar stories from people working at Kai En English before the owners abruptly closed all of the branches and fled the country with customer money. Depends how much of a schmuck you are. I'm a pretty big schmuck.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:38
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Who are the other China newbies this year? New Coke, Rental Sting, and who else?
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Jan 22, 2014 03:48
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The moment a foreign worker goes off radar they become a liability for the employer. They can get fined in all kinds of ways for your continued existence inside the middle kingdom. If you start working in addition to existing then they can get fined in even more ways. Trust me, your employer will cancel your paperwork as a matter of priority. Hell, when we are issuing paperwork for staff moving to other places we check everything with SAFEA first to make sure we don't get fined because they'll even fine you for clerical errors which result in breaches of the regulations. There is nothing dramatic about this: it's exactly how it would work in the UK or US. Hell, having worked with the UKBA in the past I think China probably does a better job of things. Cecil, as the actress said to the bishop, it's time for a properly managed withdrawal before things get more messy and expensive than they already are. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 03:49
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Except in the United States, if you want to leave, you can just leave the country. At a lot of airports, they don't care about leaving. You can just simply go without worrying about immigration. In China, they scan your passport and visa every single time you enter and exit. GuestBob is correct.
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Jan 22, 2014 03:52
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caberham posted:Who are the other China newbies this year? New Coke, Rental Sting, and who else? Facepalm Ranger? Or is he not in China yet?
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Jan 22, 2014 03:52
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According to that chinalawblog website you have 30 days to leave after they cancel your RP. That's much longer than I thought so you guys should be even less dramatic about things. And again all you (your lawyer) have to lean on them for is a release letter during this time period if you want to work somewhere else. You will have to make a visa run though because obviously at this point you aren't going to get them to transfer your RP.
Arakan fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 03:56
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Arakan posted:According to that chinalawblog website Good luck Cecil! Post as you go along what happens here. If you're going with a lawyer against your company, I don't think it will end well for you now that you've broken contract, but again, good luck!
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Jan 22, 2014 04:00
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GuestBob posted:Trust me, your employer will cancel your paperwork as a matter of priority. Hell, when we are issuing paperwork for staff moving to other places we check everything with SAFEA first to make sure we don't get fined because they'll even fine you for clerical errors which result in breaches of the regulations. I can't speak to much in this discussion authoritatively, but GuestBob's right here. I saw what happened when our university had to shitcan a terrible teacher (I was part of the process of taking out that particular piece of trash, as was fearcotton), and nuking the paperwork came about five minutes after the termination.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:02
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If he had money to fight it, I'd be more optimistic. But from some of his other posts, he sounds pretty much broke? When my visa got cancelled they gave me 10 days to leave the country, fwiw. But it was an F visa.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:06
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blinkyzero posted:I can't speak to much in this discussion authoritatively, but GuestBob's right here. I saw what happened when our university had to shitcan a terrible teacher (I was part of the process of taking out that particular piece of trash, as was fearcotton), and nuking the paperwork came about five minutes after the termination. You know goons are just begging to hear all the details  But man, sometimes being a foreigner can give you so much leeway in this side of the world.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:08
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I don't know what you're getting at, but the police and immigration won't bend the rules for him in a situation like this.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:10
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Arakan posted:According to that chinalawblog website you have 30 days to leave after they cancel your RP. That's much longer than I thought so you guys should be even less dramatic about things. And again all you (your lawyer) have to lean on them for is a release letter during this time period if you want to work somewhere else. Have I found the right post? http://www.chinalawblog.com/2011/12/how_to_change_your_china_employer_and_keep_your_work_visa.html This is not clear: it says "it seems that there are ways in which an employer can...leave you with 30 days", well, there are also circumstances where the local E/E PSB "can" take you to the nearest airport and put you on a plane home, billing your embassy who then bill you. If your RP expires then you can get put onto a 30 day zero entry L visa to enable you to leave the country. That is the purpose of this visa, to enable you to leave the country, not enable you to search for other work. As far as I know there are no circumstances in which the E/E PSB will let you float about China without a document which has a firm end date on it. The first time I worked in China I got a zero entry L after my contract finished so I could take a lazy route home. It needed to be applied for at the local E/E PSB and it got stuck in my passport. My employer was also involved in this - we took the police a bag of melons and a crate of beer - although I am not sure if they needed to be by law (the employer being involved obviously, not the provision of melons and beer). GuestBob fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 04:11
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China's hosed up.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:11
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caberham posted:You know goons are just begging to hear all the details Absolutely not in a situation like this.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:13
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GuestBob posted:Have I found the right post? I'm too lazy to go search in Chinese but yea that's the best I could do in English. I also found similar mentions of 30 days on foreigner forums like the Beijinger but I figured the law blog was at least the most reputable of them. I originally thought you had to leave immediately cause when I got those guys deported for assaulting me they had to leave pretty quickly, but I guess that's cause they were criminals at that point or something. But, canceling/not canceling an RP only matters if you were going to transfer it to a new employer. If he can get a release letter and make a visa run then he should be ok as far as I'm aware. Though I guess there's no telling how hard it will be to get that release letter even with a lawyer.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:16
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Arakan posted:I originally thought you had to leave immediately cause when I got those guys deported for assaulting me they had to leave pretty quickly, but I guess that's cause they were criminals at that point or something. You don't have to be a convicted criminal to get kicked out of China at pace: there wasn't time for a court case was there? Merely charges. Those guys were most likely tossed because the university revoked their student visas (simplest and quickest way to do it I would think). Arakan posted:But, canceling/not canceling an RP only matters if you were going to transfer it to a new employer. If he can get a release letter and make a visa run then he should be ok as far as I'm aware. Though I guess there's no telling how hard it will be to get that release letter even with a lawyer. This is true.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:23
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caberham posted:Who are the other China newbies this year? New Coke, Rental Sting, and who else? Me! I have no problems though and my boss absolutely loves me so no drama from me unfortunately.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:25
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Oh right Jimmy. Good to know, where are you based in again? SB35 needs to update the goon roster in the OP. When my sister fired her domestic helper it was an awkward scene. "Hello, you are fired, here's 2 months pay, more than the legal minimum and a ticket back home. GTFO now. My other sister was stressing over firing her incompetent zuoyue baby caretaker. She gave another extra month's pay to avoid confrontation. But then again, they are really nice people. goldboilermark posted:Absolutely not in a situation like this. Yeah that was more of an inside joke. That person was destructive. Claiming a new passport number and turning around in HK/home country for a new job is still pretty drat convenient. Anyways Ceciltron good luck! Send me a PM if you need minor financial help 
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Jan 22, 2014 04:34
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caberham posted:Oh right Jimmy. Good to know, where are you based in again? SB35 needs to update the goon roster in the OP. That's what the Google docs spreadsheet is for. Although I probably have been a bit lazy with it recently. Promise I'll check it soon. Maybe even start newbie/veterans list.
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Jan 22, 2014 04:53
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quote:I saw what happened when our university had to shitcan a terrible teacher (I was part of the process of taking out that particular piece of trash, as was fearcotton), I almost hate to ask, but what exactly does an ESL teacher have to do to get fired? edit: yep, Caberham calledit, begging for details here New Coke fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 05:10
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caberham posted:
Yeah, it was a REALLY bad situation. She got about two weeks after her RP got pulled, so maybe things change depending? But this deals directly with what BadAstronaut said--when English teachers are thick on the ground people are more apt to have terrible business practices, even if some of those teachers are freakin' crazy and do things like steal mattresses. BUT it also means that people who are qualified will land on their feet eventually. Ceciltron, you're clearly a professional who is in demand--you already have another job lined up. That is good, and you shouldn't have to put up with nonsense from employers--and neither should your girlfriend. With a new passport and a valid Z you can roll back into Harbin without issue. Getting massive fines, however, are not so good. And you don't have to go "home", wherever that is--you can always do this in HK, which I presume would be far less expensive. And of course all of this is moot if you speak to a lawyer, and/or if the school wants to avoid trouble. I really do hope things work out for you.
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Jan 22, 2014 05:12
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So New Coke what do you do? I'm not an English teacher, but somehow I have dated my share of English teachers and seen quite a few. My current super awesome amazing darling of all goons girlfriend use to teach in EF Hangzhou. New Coke posted:I almost hate to ask, but what exactly does an ESL teacher have to do to get fired? Just read the last few pages of the South East Asian Travel Thread.
Tolerable behaviour
It's such a big variable industry when it comes to English Teaching. What I listed is pretty much bottom tier lowing hanging fruit crap. Personally, I think it's fine if someone wants to be more non committed with their work. It's just a matter of personal responsibility. Kenner116 did gigs here and there to get by and he just roamed around all of South East Asia and China for a few years. His work load was light but he was never some drunk rear end in a top hat. And now let me quote my internet idol Pompous Rhombous. I have only briefly met him in my Japanese goongrilmage with Bloodnose. I think he's awesome and handsome  but Bloodnose just thinks that he's some creepy guy with cameras all over his floor. Instead of food in his fridge he just stuffs it with rolls of Medium Format Film From the ESL thread. Pompous Rhombus posted:ESL is pretty popular among lotus-eater types because there are plenty of undemanding positions that only require an undergraduate degree and maybe some basic kind of certification/experience. You totally can use it to fund a chillax lifestyle in pursuit of _______, but I personally prefer the options that having a real career/somewhat specialized certifications and/or skills brings. It's nice to be professionally certified, it brings good job security and pride in your work. But if you want to be some professional travel photographer, writer, a la Peter Hessler I think that's pretty cool too. DON'T be that angry bitter drunkard who just wastes his savings away at the bar. I don't like to mention names but there are a few in the forum who are/were like that. Blaming their bad decisions/life choices on being in ____________ country instead of owning up to themselves. caberham fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jan 22, 2014 |
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Jan 22, 2014 05:44
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