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Maybe there is a secret incredibly deep fire emblem game I have not played (admittingly I have only played a couple of games in the series) but the ones I have played the only real options open to me are playing RPS with the artificial intelligence enemies.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:27
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Nah I'm a huge fan of the FE series and even I'd say the games aren't that deep, but the RPS mechanics stop mattering pretty quickly, since your stats increase far faster than the enemy's do, so you can usually overcome the small bonuses/losses of the weapon triangle system with sheer force of numbers. It's a weird thing to hone in on, with that in mind.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:31
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I guess because there's no reason to ever stop playing RPS. Why would you not, unless your power so far outstrips the enemy that nothing you do even matters, which is even worse. e: that's kind of a common problem in SRPGs for some reason. You can kill everyone on the map with Ramza in FFT if he's a calculator, or a ninja, or a squire, or anything. The endgame of most Front Missions also ends with you just killing everything with one hit, except for the boss battles of FM5 against the special mechs. GulagDolls fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 00:32
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Well, sometimes there are situations where you need to attack an axe dude with a lance guy, or a sword person with an axe bro. Iunno man. The best maps in FE games are ones where you need to accomplish objectives under some sort of time constraint so that the game becomes a matter of conservation of movement, so things like that are both plausible things you'd have to do and probably beneficial. Unfortunately a lot of FE games didn't get the memo. That said I'd say the lack of depth is one of FE's best features, unlike a lot of RPGs the numbers are so simple that you can just do math in your head. I know gently caress all about what Cecil having 125 strength and a 45 attack weapon means, besides higher = better, but I know that Ike having 10 strength and an 8 mt weapon = 18 damage. Endorph fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 00:34
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Endorph posted:Well, sometimes there are situations where you need to attack an axe dude with a lance guy, or a sword person with an axe bro. Iunno man. The best maps in FE games are ones where you need to accomplish objectives under some sort of time constraint so that the game becomes a matter of conservation of movement, so things like that are both plausible things you'd have to do and probably beneficial. What Fire Emblem games have stuff like that? I can't remember ever playing a FE mission that wasn't "kill everyone" or "seize the throne"
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Feb 5, 2014 00:36
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GulagDolls posted:What Fire Emblem games have stuff like that? I can't remember ever playing a FE mission that wasn't "kill everyone" or "seize the throne"
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Feb 5, 2014 00:37
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There are also the occasional "survive for X turns" or "protect X NPC for Y turns" maps. I'm pretty sure there's at least one of those in every game, but I'm not actually positive.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:39
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King of Solomon posted:There are also the occasional "survive for X turns" or "protect X NPC for Y turns" maps. I'm pretty sure there's at least one of those in every game, but I'm not actually positive.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:41
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Endorph posted:Which ones have you played? In a lot of FE games those might be the main objectives, but you usually have secondary objectives within the map itself that have to be completed under some sort of turn constriant. Villages you have to get through before bandits burn them down, dudes you have to recruit before they leave the map or gets themselves killed, whatever. Oh...I've played Genealogy, Awakening, and whatever the first GBA one is. Also the second GBA one but I lost interest. I actually think I only beat the first GBA one. I got bored of the rest. I think I might try Genealogy again if anything. I liked the huge maps and art style. as for those secondary objectives, it always seemed like whatever I had to get to before it was destroyed was always really close or easy to get to.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:48
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GulagDolls posted:Oh...I've played Genealogy, Awakening, and whatever the first GBA one is. Also the second GBA one but I lost interest. I actually think I only beat the first GBA one. I got bored of the rest. I think I might try Genealogy again if anything. I liked the huge maps and art style. And yeah Genealogy is cool, even if you wind up kind of broken by end-game at least it's an interesting kind of broken instead of just 'more numbers = win more.' FE5 (Thracia 776) is also pretty good since the game's pretty hard, has some neat mechanics, and caps all stats except HP at 20 so that you don't wind up just massively outpowering your enemies. There's a few instances of hosed game design though, like the fact that you have to have everyone escape before Leaf on escape maps or else they get left behind and die (the game never tells you this), or the map where random tiles teleport units into inescapable rooms. On an escape map. Remember the 'left behind and die' thing? Yeah. That said that and one other thing are the only real instances of it and they're easy to prepare for if you know they're coming. Endorph fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 00:51
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Robotrek is just really, really grindy. The plot is really weird though.
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Feb 5, 2014 00:52
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Isn't that one only in Japanese though? There was an LP of it and the author mentioned having to write the translation patch himself. Although with less Literally Invincible Dragons.
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Feb 5, 2014 01:00
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http://www.romhacking.net/translations/761/ The translation for Eternal Filena is here. NOT safe for 1995 american value system
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Feb 5, 2014 01:07
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GulagDolls posted:http://www.romhacking.net/translations/761/  paging feminist frequency
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Feb 5, 2014 01:08
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GulagDolls posted:Oh...I've played Genealogy, Awakening, and whatever the first GBA one is. Also the second GBA one but I lost interest. I actually think I only beat the first GBA one. I got bored of the rest. I think I might try Genealogy again if anything. I liked the huge maps and art style. Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn are really good about swapping up the map objectives. They can also change up the map variety more just because the system is stronger than the GBA.
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Feb 5, 2014 02:44
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The sixth Fire Emblem has at least a few instances where you have a lot to do in one chapter even within the context of every map being Seize, especially since a number of chapters have a time limit to get to side chapters that you need for legendary weapons. But yeah, Fire Emblem in general is at its best in the hard modes or the harder games' earlier levels where you can't just brute force everything, IMO.
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Feb 5, 2014 02:56
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On SNES RPG chat, I can't believe nobody's mentioned Live-A-Live. It's seven different RPG adventures across ALL OF TIME WHOA! Metal Gear your way through a castle as a kickass ninja! Go on a Street Fighter world wrestling tour and Megaman their moves! Engage in caveman slapstick! Play through the Karate Kid except there's three kids and also you play as Mr. Miyagi! Pilot a giant robot powered by liquid people with your telekinesis! It's COOL AS HELL and also has Hella Excellent music.
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Feb 5, 2014 03:27
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I really liked Adventures of Hourai High. It wasn't "great", but it had a neat class system tied in with school clubs, had a story that wouldn't have felt out of place in Cromartie High and didn't overstay its welcome.
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Feb 5, 2014 03:49
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alcharagia posted:On SNES RPG chat, I can't believe nobody's mentioned Live-A-Live. You forgot the best two: the I, Robot and Fistful of Dollars chapters. The second one is great: you're protecting a town from bandits that are coming in the morning, and you have to raid the town for traps and weapons under a fairly generous time limit. The catch is that the people helping you set up the traps work at different speeds and will be either speedy or useless, and setting a trap means you can't chuck it at the bad guys when you go to fight them. Also there's three secret chapters that I'm not supposed to tell you about for a total of ten games in one. A sequel's probably against the spirit of the thing but a spiritual successor would be great. E: no wonder it was so good, the guy behind it was the director of Chrono Trigger, FF4, and Parasite Eve. Any one of those games would be worth a million-dollar Kickstarter campaign. Captain Walker fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Feb 5, 2014 |
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Feb 5, 2014 03:51
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That Rudra game was very good.
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Feb 5, 2014 03:55
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alcharagia posted:On SNES RPG chat, I can't believe nobody's mentioned Live-A-Live. Y'know, I used to dig Live-A-Live, but I find that it's really hard to play now. Half the chapters have weird progress flags that are too much of a pain in the rear end to deal with, and then the Wrester's chapter is a straight-up crapshoot every time you go into a match.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:09
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The White Dragon posted:Y'know, I used to dig Live-A-Live, but I find that it's really hard to play now. Half the chapters have weird progress flags that are too much of a pain in the rear end to deal with, and then the Wrester's chapter is a straight-up crapshoot every time you go into a match. I really can't imagine playing Live-a-live without a guide when it came out. it just would have been a ....loving nightmare.....!!!!!!!! karl fungus posted:That Rudra game was very good. It is very pretty and the music has a lot of life. I would have loved to see that composer grow but it was not to be. I also really like the magic system. Rudras also has really, really bad storytelling but if you can look past that it is cool.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:12
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GulagDolls posted:I really can't imagine playing Live-a-live without a guide when it came out. it just would have been a ....loving nightmare.....!!!!!!!! I did that right after the translation patch. gently caress me, there were a few places where I had to just run around punching everything. I wish I remembered enough of it to give warnings on where those places were anymore.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:15
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Syrg Sapphire posted:I wish I remembered enough of it to give warnings on where those places were anymore. 2) The entirety of the Near Future chapter 3) The middle of the Kung Fu chapter 4) The latter half of the Final chapter
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Feb 5, 2014 04:25
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The White Dragon posted:4) The latter half of the Final chapter YES. That one stuck out even to this day. "Where the gently caress am I going and what the gently caress do I need to do" and from memory there's at least one fight where winning it is a game over? God, that finale.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:26
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The ninja chapter was also pretty horrifying.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:27
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I'll totally defend the ninja chapter because it was a cool implementation of the idea: if you find the hidden path, you don't need to fight, OR you can go balls-out and just attack your way to poo poo but it might cause problems later. That WAS Live-A-Live, right? I'm not misremembering?
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Feb 5, 2014 04:29
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Yup, that's Live-A-Live. You even get a sword equal in strength to the one you win for beating the secret boss in the Ninja Chapter if you get through it without killing anyone. I'd say "puzzle it out," but the truth is that chapter is impossible to puzzle out and you won't get the Yoshiyuki unless you go in with a guide or experimented by playing the chapter a dozen times to figure out all the scripted ways to avoid combat. The chapter itself actually isn't that bad. It's a big maze with some RPG platforming, but it doesn't really have any arcane event flags.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:33
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I think Live-A-Live would of been better if most of the chapters didn't overstay their welcome, like the Cowboy one. That had a pretty neat gimmick and didn't last long enough to bum me out like the near future one did. Man did that one just go on and on. Though I did like playing (maybe spoilers if your going to play it?)the last chapter as the Cowboy and utterly destroying everything with hurricane shot.
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Feb 5, 2014 04:41
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Captain Walker posted:E: no wonder it was so good, the guy behind it was the director of Chrono Trigger, FF4, and Parasite Eve. Any one of those games would be worth a million-dollar Kickstarter campaign. While Parasite Eve is a lot of fun, it's also incredibly short for an RPG: you can reasonably finish a playthrough in 2-3 hours if you don't waste time. There's a huge bonus dungeon available in New Game+ that tacks on another couple of hours but that's about it. Seems like they blew most of their budget on FMVs (which are, admittedly, really impressive for the time).
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Feb 5, 2014 13:46
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kirbysuperstar posted:I really liked Adventures of Hourai High. It wasn't "great", but it had a neat class system tied in with school clubs, had a story that wouldn't have felt out of place in Cromartie High and didn't overstay its welcome. I'd love to see more small-scale RPGs that don't deal with saving all of the world or whatever. Yakuza, for example, while it's not quite an RPG, is great that you're just going around the red-light district and beating the poo poo out of bad guys to save your clan. Or the beginning of Earthbound, when your toughest foes are a local punk and his robot. What other ones are there? I tend to enjoy the smaller plots more.
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Feb 5, 2014 13:57
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How about Brave Fencer Musashi? You're fighting a big evil empire, but there's only one town, so you get to know its residents as the game progresses. It's also really drat good.
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Feb 5, 2014 14:41
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Wendell posted:How about Brave Fencer Musashi? You're fighting a big evil empire, but there's only one town, so you get to know its residents as the game progresses. It's also really drat good. I always forget that game exists then someone calls back to it and I remember how many good time I had playing it. It really is a very good game.
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Feb 5, 2014 15:09
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Oh this is bullshit, if you change Avan's class in VCII you can't go back to the 2nd/3rd Tiers he was in if you change back? I have to give up a potential Certificate (which seems to be quite rare, if only possible on new missions or new characters) to get him back? I've been holding off on saying much about this game until I had finished it but it's a lot worse than I thought it'd be. I have an exceptionally high tolerance for anime nonsense but this Highschool Plot is a nightmare. I figured at least the gameplay would have been fine, but almost everything that they've changed compared to the original I think was for the worst.
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Feb 5, 2014 15:17
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Thankfully vc3 gets rid of the certificate nonsense. And has a competent main character.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:26
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Thuryl posted:While Parasite Eve is a lot of fun, it's also incredibly short for an RPG: you can reasonably finish a playthrough in 2-3 hours if you don't waste time. There's a huge bonus dungeon available in New Game+ that tacks on another couple of hours but that's about it. Seems like they blew most of their budget on FMVs (which are, admittedly, really impressive for the time). Game's short but it's not THAT short. The speedrun record is about 2 and a half hours without the EX Game. 6-8 hours is a pretty good casual time. The NG+ dungeon can easily double that if you try to get all the loot.
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Feb 5, 2014 16:45
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Does anyone have some suggestions for SRPGs in particular, and RPGs in general, in which the characters' relationships influence their abilities in battle, and which use sensible mechanics? Something with character interactions like the battle-field chats of Fire Emblem or Baldur's Gate's banter, better writing than Sakura Wars, less guess-work/trial and error than Persona 3's Social Links or Valkyrie Profile's good endings, and team-up attacks like those in Chrono Cross/Trigger or the X-Men Legends/Ultimate Alliance series would be ideal.
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Feb 5, 2014 20:27
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Darthemed posted:Does anyone have some suggestions for SRPGs in particular, and RPGs in general, in which the characters' relationships influence their abilities in battle, and which use sensible mechanics? While we're making unreasonable demands, I would like a flying car that dispenses gold bars and transforms into a robot that makes me dinner. Seriously though, that sort of game doesn't, and I don't think will ever exist. It's just asking way too much for any team to make.
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Feb 5, 2014 20:36
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To be fair, what that guy wants is basically Fire Emblem but with team-up attacks.
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Feb 5, 2014 20:38
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Endorph posted:To be fair, what that guy wants is basically Fire Emblem but with team-up attacks. So Fire Emblem: Awakening  (I'd recommend Devil Survivor 2).
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Feb 5, 2014 20:41
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