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Typhus733 posted:Has anyone tried building an even semi-competitive Minotaur deck now that BNG is out? I'm not much of a deckbuilder so all I've came up with is this but, while not tier one, I think it's an idea for a deck that can be fun and a little more effective than one might think at first glance given all the great removal available in red and black right now. I'd love to see some more mindfully built lists for the idea if anyone else has been looking at it. I know I am going to sound like a broken record, but I prefer Magma Jet over Lightning Strike...2 Scry is really nice.
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Feb 7, 2014 04:08
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Olothreutes posted:I just noticed you dropped Nylea from the deck, is the loss of trample a big thing or no? Yes and no. She might find a place in the sideboard since she was fantastic against control and mono black, but I haven't done enough testing yet to notice any significant loss.
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Feb 7, 2014 04:27
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Typhus733 posted:Has anyone tried building an even semi-competitive Minotaur deck now that BNG is out? I'm not much of a deckbuilder so all I've came up with is this but, while not tier one, I think it's an idea for a deck that can be fun and a little more effective than one might think at first glance given all the great removal available in red and black right now. I'd love to see some more mindfully built lists for the idea if anyone else has been looking at it. A friend of mine was running Minotaurs last fall and I was surprised at how quickly things could get out of hand after turn 3. If you drop the number of Spiritbinders definitely put more Kragma Warcallers in, turn 2 Deathbellow -> turn 3 Rageblood -> turn 4 Warcaller is a lot scarier in person than on paper. My friend was running Duress/Doom Blade/Lightning Strike as his non-creature suite, so what you have in that regard seems to be headed in the right direction. And Mutavault, if you have any laying around. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Feb 7, 2014 |
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Feb 7, 2014 04:43
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Here's a Minotaur deck template from pro Frank Karsten: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/spoiler-spotlight-ragemonger/ quote:Main Deck
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Feb 7, 2014 04:46
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OssiansFolly posted:I know I am going to sound like a broken record, but I prefer Magma Jet over Lightning Strike...2 Scry is really nice. I actually totally agree with you, I run a full set in my RDW just because scry can be so powerful for fixing draws. Thanks for all the suggestions, I definately don't expect to see it become a highly competitive deck but maybe someone brings one around to a bigger tournament for shits and giggles. Personally I'm interested in it just because it's a hell of a lot cheaper for me to build than R/G Monsters based on what I already own and it's at least somewhat different than my straight all one/two drop aggro deck.
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Feb 7, 2014 05:00
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Yes and no. She might find a place in the sideboard since she was fantastic against control and mono black, but I haven't done enough testing yet to notice any significant loss. I'll have to keep this in mind. I haven't played standard since Flametongue Kavu was legal, and I've moved across the country in the mean time, so I have no idea what the meta here looks like for standard. Should be fun to actually have to think about adjusting a deck for a meta for once.
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Feb 7, 2014 06:01
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OssiansFolly posted:I know I am going to sound like a broken record, but I prefer Magma Jet over Lightning Strike...2 Scry is really nice. We'll have to see how the meta adapts to know for sure, but I have a feeling that with Drown in Sorrow around people are definitely going to try to get 3 toughness on a lot of things. Something to keep in mind.
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Feb 7, 2014 09:35
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Jabor posted:We'll have to see how the meta adapts to know for sure, but I have a feeling that with Drown in Sorrow around people are definitely going to try to get 3 toughness on a lot of things. Something to keep in mind. I'm more worried about seeing Drown in Sorrow against Murderhorse...
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Feb 7, 2014 14:54
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OssiansFolly posted:I'm more worried about seeing Drown in Sorrow against Murderhorse... It's not really any worse than Supreme Verdict or Anger of the Gods. Horse survives, Purphoros survives, Trading Post survives. You don't care about it killing Tymaret, it doesn't actually kill Gnawing Zombie, and YP already had an effectively zero life expectancy against mono-B.
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Feb 7, 2014 15:04
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Jabor posted:It's not really any worse than Supreme Verdict or Anger of the Gods. Horse survives, Purphoros survives, Trading Post survives. You don't care about it killing Tymaret, and YP already had an effectively zero life expectancy against mono-B. Yea but keeping a couple 3/3 on the enemy side standing while I have nothing to chump block with can be troubling mid to late game.
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Feb 7, 2014 15:05
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Typhus733 posted:Has anyone tried building an even semi-competitive Minotaur deck now that BNG is out? I'm not much of a deckbuilder so all I've came up with is this but, while not tier one, I think it's an idea for a deck that can be fun and a little more effective than one might think at first glance given all the great removal available in red and black right now. I'd love to see some more mindfully built lists for the idea if anyone else has been looking at it. I'd keep the thoughtseize, and more hand hate if you can. So many of the competitive decks out there rely on a few specific cards (supreme verdict, Thassa, Pack rat, etc) and getting rid of them while they're still in hand is the best way to deal with them. I don't know if you have access to them, but if you're going to run any sort of tribal deck in standard, you probably should have mutavaults in there. The anger of the gods are probably not a good idea, since it'd kill all your own creatures. I'd put either a few more cheap creatures like Felhide Brawlers, or draw spells, or lightning strikes instead. Good luck!
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Feb 7, 2014 15:55
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Blompkin posted:I'd keep the thoughtseize, and more hand hate if you can. So many of the competitive decks out there rely on a few specific cards (supreme verdict, Thassa, Pack rat, etc) and getting rid of them while they're still in hand is the best way to deal with them. You can swap out Anger for Mizzium Mortar. A bit more pricey for a full side clear, but at least it won't hit you.
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Feb 7, 2014 16:10
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Drown in Sorrow may end up not being so great with the number of >2 Toughness creatures in the format (Fleecemane, Pack Rats with at least one other copy out, even stuff like Fiendslayer Paladin doesn't care with an Ethereal Armor/Unflinching Courage out). The better option might be something like Bile Blight to deal with Heliod's tokens, though Ratchet Bomb is better at dealing with that even with anthem effects out. I guess the answer is more Ratchet Bomb.
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Feb 7, 2014 17:24
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bhsman posted:Drown in Sorrow may end up not being so great with the number of >2 Toughness creatures in the format (Fleecemane, Pack Rats with at least one other copy out, even stuff like Fiendslayer Paladin doesn't care with an Ethereal Armor/Unflinching Courage out). The better option might be something like Bile Blight to deal with Heliod's tokens, though Ratchet Bomb is better at dealing with that even with anthem effects out. Drown in Sorrow is going to be format-defining. It will single-handedly destroy mono blue and RG devotion and becomes the 3CC arms race. If fiendslayer comes down on T3 he gets drowned. If you rat t2 or t3? Drown. Drown is Blacks supreme virdict right now and its going to trivialize all <3 toughness creatures. More than 3 toughness? Its not like black has targeted removal or anything. All those mana dorks you'd normally sac to Desecration Demon? T3 Drown, T4 Demon. Hope you've got an answer!
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Feb 7, 2014 17:38
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Balon posted:Drown in Sorrow is going to be format-defining. It will single-handedly destroy mono blue and RG devotion and becomes the 3CC arms race. Sorry, I should have specified that I was referring to MURDERGOATS.dec; Drown is going to be amazing for MBC/D.
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Feb 7, 2014 17:46
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bhsman posted:Drown in Sorrow may end up not being so great with the number of >2 Toughness creatures in the format (Fleecemane, Pack Rats with at least one other copy out, even stuff like Fiendslayer Paladin doesn't care with an Ethereal Armor/Unflinching Courage out). The better option might be something like Bile Blight to deal with Heliod's tokens, though Ratchet Bomb is better at dealing with that even with anthem effects out. I was testing out your deck last night (gonna give it a shot over mine to see how it works), and drawing I got a TON of mana, never saw a Ratchet, and had a lot of removal. I am wondering if you see that you have a lot of mana, but not that 1 or 2 cards you want? I am wondering if I can pull a couple mana for another Ratchet and possibly something else...
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Feb 7, 2014 17:52
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OssiansFolly posted:I was testing out your deck last night (gonna give it a shot over mine to see how it works), and drawing I got a TON of mana, never saw a Ratchet, and had a lot of removal. I am wondering if you see that you have a lot of mana, but not that 1 or 2 cards you want? I am wondering if I can pull a couple mana for another Ratchet and possibly something else... I actually went and upped the number of Doom Blades by one and took out Molten Birth b/c I felt like I drew it too much when I needed more removal in real games as opposed to goldfishing. I'm also surprised that you're seeing so many lands when random goldfishing loves to give me 0-1 land hands.  I'd recommend Ratchet Bomb if only because it gives the deck an out against Illness in the Ranks.
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Feb 7, 2014 18:14
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Boco_T posted:Here's a Minotaur deck template from pro Frank Karsten: Don't be cowards, Wizards. Reprint Didgeridoo.
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Feb 7, 2014 18:23
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bhsman posted:I actually went and upped the number of Doom Blades by one and took out Molten Birth b/c I felt like I drew it too much when I needed more removal in real games as opposed to goldfishing. I'm also surprised that you're seeing so many lands when random goldfishing loves to give me 0-1 land hands. Goldfishing last night I did 5 hands for a fair average. By 10 draws in I had no less than 7 lands on the field in 80% of those games. And I don't have shocklands or the Scry lands (yet), so I am using guildgates. I only saw like 1 guildgate in all of those games too. I've said before I have horrible and weird luck in my draws...maybe things will balance out when I give it a shot this weekend.
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Feb 7, 2014 18:26
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Speaking of RDW, is there anything in BNG that's worth swapping in? The only thing I see that I really like is the tribute Phoenix. Other than that nothing is really jumping out at me as a must-have. Even then, I only have so many 4-mana slots in my RDW and it seems like Fantatic of Mogis and Chandra, Pyromaster are both better than the Phoenix.
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Feb 7, 2014 18:45
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Elephant Ambush posted:Speaking of RDW, is there anything in BNG that's worth swapping in? The only thing I see that I really like is the tribute Phoenix. Other than that nothing is really jumping out at me as a must-have. Arhcetype of Aggression seems pretty amazing, as is Searing Blood.
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Feb 7, 2014 19:02
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bhsman posted:Arhcetype of Aggression seems pretty amazing, as is Searing Blood. Does RDW really care about trample since it's pretty much swinging with everything every turn? I'm on the fence about Searing Blood. It seems good but it's also 2 mana, and the reason I replaced my Magma Jets with Shocks is that 2 mana isn't always easy to come by in most games.
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Feb 7, 2014 19:19
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Balon posted:Drown in Sorrow is going to be format-defining. It will single-handedly destroy mono blue and RG devotion and becomes the 3CC arms race. I really don't see it being as format-defining as you think. Sure, people will have to take it account and maybe alter their deck builds slightly and play around it, but the current meta can adjust for the threat fairly well. First off, it is sorcery speed, and black's real selling point as far as removal goes is the fact that its entire removal suite is instant. Second, it kills your own Pack Rats unless you have three of your own out. Mutavault pumps don't even help. It is 3cc which forces you to either tap out or near tap out any turn it is useful (3-4). Because after that, the creatures get too big for it to be effective. And without haste, black can't even take advantage of the temporarily lowered P/T on the opponent's guys. Everything it kills in Mono-U was effectively controlled for using 1 for 1 removal anyway with the possible exception of Tidebinder Mage. It doesn't kill Sylvan Caryatid which is the best mana dork G has. It is a horrible top deck against anything late game with the exception of Elspeth tokens. And that is just delaying the inevitable at that point.
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Feb 7, 2014 19:28
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Mono-black devotion already beats mono-blue devotion anyway. Drown is just a kick in the dick. The only thing mono-blue really got was Thassa's Rebuff and even if mono-blue maindecks 4 of those it's not enough to handle all the Drowns and Gray Merchants.
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Feb 7, 2014 19:40
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Elephant Ambush posted:Does RDW really care about trample since it's pretty much swinging with everything every turn? I'm on the fence about Searing Blood. It seems good but it's also 2 mana, and the reason I replaced my Magma Jets with Shocks is that 2 mana isn't always easy to come by in most games. I think the archetype is good and a good pick in sealed but I dont know about constructed uses. Searing blood though, I think is amazing. Between that and satyr firedancer I'm hoping burn decks can make a real return. If you use searing blood right, it's always at least a 2 for 1. If you have any combination of young pyro or satyr firedancer out, you get even more value out of an already effecient card. I dont think it replaces magma jet because jet serves its own purpose with scry. Worst case scenario is that you have to sideboard searing blood out against U/W control or something like that.
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Feb 7, 2014 19:44
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AlternateNu posted:I really don't see it being as format-defining as you think. Sure, people will have to take it account and maybe alter their deck builds slightly and play around it, but the current meta can adjust for the threat fairly well. Black's 1-for-1 removal suite is instant, but if it can 2-for-1 or better it's more than happy to do it at sorc speed. It kills your rats if you play them early, but knowing the kind of deck you're up against means you'd be pretty bad to play a Rat and have a reason to Drown. And again, if you can 2-for-1 or better there's no reason not to tap out. Your opponent played a Cloudfin in to a Tidebinder? Why the hell wouldn't you tap out on turn 3? And again, why would you use a 3cc instant 1-for-1 spell when you can get a 2-for-1 or better at sorcery speed? 1-for-1 removal is for the threats Drown can't hit, not for that 1/2 Cloudfin flying at you. And as a top deck late game? You do know what deck you're talking about right? Late game Drown becomes "2B: Put an X/X rat in to play..."
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Feb 7, 2014 19:50
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AgentSythe posted:Don't be cowards, Wizards. Reprint Didgeridoo. Reserve list unfortunately, and it is by far the most expensive card in Homelands now.
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Feb 7, 2014 20:07
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I think the archetype is good and a good pick in sealed but I dont know about constructed uses. Searing blood though, I think is amazing. Between that and satyr firedancer I'm hoping burn decks can make a real return. If you use searing blood right, it's always at least a 2 for 1. If you have any combination of young pyro or satyr firedancer out, you get even more value out of an already effecient card. I dont think it replaces magma jet because jet serves its own purpose with scry. Worst case scenario is that you have to sideboard searing blood out against U/W control or something like that. That seems like a separate Young Pyro/Firedancer deck as opposed to RDW though. I'll experiment with Searing Blood. It seems like it might be better than Magma Jet in an aggro deck but at the same time I'm hesitant to sacrifice speed for a little extra damage. I've been wrong before and I could be now. 
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Feb 7, 2014 20:09
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I've been playing a somewhat casual (in that it includes Possibility Storm and Opportunity just for kicks) U/R burn deck for a bit now but with the new cards I think it could have some legs. Here's a mockup of what I've been thinking of: 4 Young Pyromancer 3 Frostburn Weird 4 Satyr Firedancer 4 Guttersnipe 3 Spellheart Chimaera 3 Springleaf Drum 2 Shock 4 Lightning Strike 4 Izzet Charm 3 Searing Blood 3 Magma Jet 2 Divination 4 Steam Vents 11 Mountains 6 Island It's pretty decent against aggro, but struggles with midrange decks that lands too-large creatures quickly. Springleaf Drum is still experimental, it's good as a one-drop this deck otherwise lacks that lets you tap out turn 2/3 for a creature and still keep up Shock, but doesn't do anything later in the game. Spellheart Chimaera is a deceptively powerful creature that can sometimes just win you the game as a topdeck. Sideboard wise I think I'd be looking at Fated Conflagration for midrange, perhaps Negate/Dissolve for control and black decks (Drown in Sorrow  ), and I don't know what else.
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Feb 7, 2014 20:45
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Bugsy posted:Reserve list unfortunately, and it is by far the most expensive card in Homelands now. I want to trade mine away so bad.
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Feb 7, 2014 20:48
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Anything you guys would change to this G/W Hexproof deck? 4 Hopeful Eidolon 4 Gladecover Scout 3 Hero of Iroas 3 Voice of Resurgence 4 Fleecemane Lion 4 Eidolon of Countless Battles 4 Witchstalker 4 Ethereal Armor 4 Unflinching Courage 2 Selesnya Charm 2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride 4 Temple Garden 4 Temple of Plenty 7 Plains 7 Forest Sideboard 2 Selesnya Charm 2 Mending Touch 3 Revoke Existence 1 Voice of Resurgence 4 Fiendslayer Paladin 3 Skylasher I am getting handed this deck to play at a big event tomorrow. I haven't played standard in a while. Anything glaring missing? Feedback appreciated. TIA.
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Feb 7, 2014 20:48
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ScarletBrother posted:Anything you guys would change to this G/W Hexproof deck? I've been experimenting with something similar: http://deckbox.org/sets/593324 I like blue for Aqueous Form and Ordeal, a big weakness of a deck like this has always been inconsistency of draws and lack of extra ones. These solve both problems while boosting your Eidolon.
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Feb 7, 2014 20:50
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Fingers McLongDong posted:I think the archetype is good and a good pick in sealed but I dont know about constructed uses. I think Archetype has a spot in RDW/MRD because: -It gives a useful 3-drop to complement Hammer of Purphoros. -It provides 2 devotion to red, making your Fanatics better (both for the ETB effect and his 4 power). -It makes even your Rakdos Cackler and other 2-power creatures useful because it means you can't be blocked by 1/1s all day and gets damage by.
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Feb 7, 2014 22:12
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Pre-FNM testing report: Dear Springleaf Drum,  -bhsman~
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Feb 8, 2014 03:03
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bhsman posted:Pre-FNM testing report: Is it that bad for Murdergoats, after all the hype? I've been hoping BNG would make the deck playable again, but all I've been hearing is further disappointment.
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Feb 8, 2014 05:03
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Since we were talking red cards earlier, I'd like some input on a standard burn deck build I'm thinking about taking to FNM. I have all the pieces except the BNG stuff. 4x Ash zealot 4x Chandra's Phoenix 4x Satyr Firedancer 1x Aurelia's Fury 4x Boros charm 4x Magma Jet 4x Lightning strike 4x Searing blood 3x Skullcrack 4x Warleader's helix 2x Chandra, pyromaster 4x Temple of triumph 4x Sacred Foundry 14x Mountain I'm really wanting the new satyr and searing blood to push pure faceburn without red devotion into a good deck again. Phoenix is good for obvious reasons, and I feel like zealot is right because its great for early damage or defending vs aggro decks so I dont have to waste as many burns on creatures. Sideboard I'm not sure about yet, right now I'm thinking of keeping boros reckoners on the sb as replacements for the satyrs against decks with little creature presence. Probably a couple burning earths and around 3 chain to the rocks, along with some wear/tears or revoke existence. I'm open to ideas.
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Feb 8, 2014 07:23
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:Is it that bad for Murdergoats, after all the hype? I've been hoping BNG would make the deck playable again, but all I've been hearing is further disappointment.  Who is saying the deck isn't playable? I only made that post because I had a bad run of practice games with Springleaf and took them out - I may still practice with them more, but it just felt too...weird. In any case, I went 3-2, losing to UW Control (I totally forgot Pithing Needle can affect Aetherling, which my opponent was kind enough to remind me about after I had played one, naming Elspeth, with Dreadbore in my hand.  ) and GR Devotion (really interesting deck); both of which involved either making aforementioned dumb plays or not drawing any removal/Slaughter Games/land.From there, I went on to beat: a weird R/W Boros deck played by a younger player, so I pretty much destroyed him  , followed by a R/W Auras deck and B/R Aggro/Minotaurs?, and all three games I pretty much piloted the deck as I expected: blew up their creatures, dropped Akroan Horse + Purphoros, make fat stacks.  I also ended up trading for another Ratchet Bomb, 3 Drown in Sorrows, and 3 Mizzium Mortars (only needed 2 but decided to grab a third because ~gently caress it~), which finishing the deck as found in my avatar. Ratchet Bomb, though! It was really useful!!! It blew up 2-mana aggro dudes, it blew up enemy tokens, and so on. I'm really happy I included it, honestly. It's such a great threat by itself, too. Plus I get to say "Ratchet up" whenever I add a counter to it.  Anyone else run MURDERGOATS.dec tonight?
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Feb 8, 2014 08:08
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bhsman posted:
That's juts my opinion after playing it for months now. Even changing up builds off and on, if your opponent has a clue what you're playing, your odds get much worse, and if they're competent and play a tier 1 deck, you really can't win 65%+ of the time, since the deck is so inconsistent.
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Feb 8, 2014 08:33
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:That's juts my opinion after playing it for months now. Even changing up builds off and on, if your opponent has a clue what you're playing, your odds get much worse, and if they're competent and play a tier 1 deck, you really can't win 65%+ of the time, since the deck is so inconsistent. Sorry to hear that. What have you been running?EDIT: For anyone who cares, I updated the deck. Here's a preview: Sweepers for everyone! EDIT2: I don't know why, but it feels like this version has way more removal than usual; as in I feel like I'm drawing it more reliably. Having a lot of variety helps. bhsman fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Feb 8, 2014 |
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Feb 8, 2014 08:45
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There was a little discussion in the main thread, but how many other people have tried playing the Maze's End deck that did so well in the Vancouver GP? I have made it and I absolutely love it. If you can get the Maze out early, it becomes really hard for the other person to come back. I'm going to experiment with adding Kiora into the maindeck instead of the Bow, which I did like for the life gain (never really had a fear of decking myself) but the extra land drop a turn from two different sources now could make this even faster.
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Feb 8, 2014 09:52
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