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A Buttery Pastry posted:I will argue for globes until the day Paradox implements them.   You can't do this with globes.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:06
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Nightblade posted:Globes are awful. Yeah, but you can't spin that map around real fast while making "Whee" noises, so it kind of balances out.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:07
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V for Vegas posted:I am actually a bit irked by the map projection. Is it impossible to have the engine model a globe? "If it's not feasible for them to program bread, let them develop cake!"  Globes is hard, dude, a lot harder than just whipping up an unfucked flat map. gradenko_2000 posted:I was about to say Civ 4, but then I realized that even that just wraps a flat grid over a globe but still doesn't let you cross over the poles. Kavak posted:EDIT: ^^^^ Supreme Ruler does that, and we all know how that series turns out... Populous: The Beginning had a full-3D globe thing going on too, and P:TB was the best RTS ever made by man or God. Though actually I think they faked it with some weird spiral-cylinder-torus coordinate system or something. Kavak posted:How the hell does he have over 500 posts? Or does Paradox just shut discussions down and not necessarily ban the posters? You can get banned for doing something ban worthy, and for lesser offences you get infracted. Accrue enough infractions and you get a temp ban, but I don't think they ever roll up into a full ban. And no, just being a full blown nazi is not enough for an infraction, not unless you start questioning the legitimacy of the holocaust or throwing around racial slurs. Plus, I think the regular mods don't like kicking things up the chain of command too often, so they're more likely to drop a thousand infaction points on you than request a ban. Plus, mods can be nazis themselves!  When the criterion for modhood is "least worst poster in the HOI forum", that's not a high bar to clear. fspades posted:Literal Nazis are one thing, but what's up with Paradox forums and self-proclaimed "monarchists". Who the hell are these people? Do they live with us here in the 21st century? Why do I never encounter them in the real world? Monarchists are totally a real thing and in real life, dude! For instance, I'm fairly certain the entire reader base of the Daily Mail are monarchists. And yeah, of course they gravitate to the spergy history game forum, where else are they going to go? Reactionaries are like fascists from before fascism was cool.  Besides, Kaiser Wilhelm crazies are pretty tame by Pdox standards. There's this one hoopy frood (I want to say canonized?) who's convinced that the Middle Ages were, no joking, Europe's Golden Age, and that it's all been downhill since the Protestant Reformation. Like, hey, 95% of the population spend their entire lives toiling in filth and squalor to someone else's benefit, with no hope of improvement, and the land is riven with plague and war and famine, but at least everyone has a clearly defined position in a divinely-ordained hierarchy under the guidance of the one true and undivided Catholic Church.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:16
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Kavak posted:Yeah, but you can't spin that map around real fast while making "Whee" noises, so it kind of balances out. Only if spinning too fast causes your armies to shoot out into space.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:16
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Nightblade posted:Only if spinning too fast causes your armies to shoot out into space.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:28
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Autonomous Monster posted:(I want to say canonized?) Orinsul, that was it.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:30
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Autonomous Monster posted:Besides, Kaiser Wilhelm crazies are pretty tame by Pdox standards. There's this one hoopy frood (I want to say canonized?) who's convinced that the Middle Ages were, no joking, Europe's Golden Age, and that it's all been downhill since the Protestant Reformation. Like, hey, 95% of the population spend their entire lives toiling in filth and squalor to someone else's benefit, with no hope of improvement, and the land is riven with plague and war and famine, but at least everyone has a clearly defined position in a divinely-ordained hierarchy under the guidance of the one true and undivided Catholic Church. You may be thinking of Karl/Charles I of Austria, the last emperor of Austria, who was beatified (but not canonized) in 2004.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:30
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This is the guy running the post-apocalyptic America mod. Needless to say, nothing is getting done and they've spent years and haven't even planned out the map yet, let alone begun to program it into the game. The thread is literally nothing but them hashing out this scenario that nobody will ever turn into a mod and Orinsul waving his dick and claiming ownership over it. I started a competing one just to show them up, but really the only interesting part was turning New York City into a CK2 map (which I still have, if anybody wants to put it to use). *e* Oh man, this is rich. Orinsul's HD died, so he totally lost whatever progress he did make on the mod. Like, he never even thought to put it on Dropbox or Google Drive. Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 13:37
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The Narrator posted:You may be thinking of Karl/Charles I of Austria, the last emperor of Austria, who was beatified (but not canonized) in 2004. Aha, no, sorry, I should have been clearer: there is actually a crazy Paradox poster with the username "canonized" (all lower case). He is bonkers, and once wrote a bizarre, gargantuan narrative AAR involving time travel, but he was not actually the crazy I was looking for.
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Feb 11, 2014 13:40
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Nightblade posted:Globes are awful. Globe: Pros:
Development - No need to ever fiddle with projections again, allowing Paradox to more easily update maps between games/expansions. Gameplay - Allows over-the-Pole action in games set in the modern era Cons:
Autonomous Monster posted:"If it's not feasible for them to program bread, let them develop cake!"
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Feb 11, 2014 13:48
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Ofaloaf posted:I never really "got" native localization for everything. It just made it confusing to decipher events, oftentimes still ended up being irregulary applied due to limitations ("Roi of France" comes to mind for CK2), and didn't make much sense from an RP perspective either (if the character was a German than all the names should be in German because that's how he'd see it, right? Except then translation conventions come into play and it all comes out as English anyways). Yeah, I think there's a case for it where in English (or whatever localised language the game is set to) we called the country differently depending on who was ruling it, but I'm not fond of the localisations otherwise. So I'm fine with the Duchy of Galloway being the Petty Kingdom of Strathclyde when there's a welsh ruler, because that's the English name of the Brythonic kingdom that inhabited the area during the early part of the game's timeframe, but changing everything to local names doesn't make sense to me when I have the game's language set to English. It wouldn't even be that bad if they at least did with localised names what they do with Dynasty-named states and put the unaltered name alongside when you highlight the coat of arms. So we get "Seljuk Sultanate [Sultanate of Persia]" why not have "Petty Kingdom of Strathclyde [Duchy of Galloway]"?
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Feb 11, 2014 13:51
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Autonomous Monster posted:Aha, no, sorry, I should have been clearer: there is actually a crazy Paradox poster with the username "canonized" (all lower case). He is bonkers, and once wrote a bizarre, gargantuan narrative AAR involving time travel, but he was not actually the crazy I was looking for. Whooops. Well, now I feel quite a fool  That's... quite a user. The Pdox forums are always good for some interesting character studies.
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Feb 11, 2014 14:03
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Can you explain why globes are so hard? Because flat maps are inherently hosed. (And Paradox maps are even more hosed than just the translation into flat maps requires.) Obviously flat maps can be sorta unfucked if you stick to a projection and don't move continents around, by having formulas that make sure distances work like on a globe instead of a map, but aren't you starting to move into the same sort of complexity you would have to deal with on a globe map then?
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Feb 11, 2014 14:11
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fspades posted:Literal Nazis are one thing, but what's up with Paradox forums and self-proclaimed "monarchists". Who the hell are these people? Do they live with us here in the 21st century? Why do I never encounter them in the real world?
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Feb 11, 2014 14:15
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I think they've said they don't want to/won't do a globe. But yeah, I think it would be cool. Especially for something like HOI4 with the day night cycle. It would just look so much neater if you could zoom out and it would be all 'Xcom'.
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Feb 11, 2014 14:16
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Autonomous Monster posted:Aha, no, sorry, I should have been clearer: there is actually a crazy Paradox poster with the username "canonized" (all lower case). He is bonkers, and once wrote a bizarre, gargantuan narrative AAR involving time travel, but he was not actually the crazy I was looking for. My favorite bit is that no one actually understands the plot, but they're sure its really good!
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Feb 11, 2014 14:16
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Kainser posted:You do realize that most Monarchies in Europe at least are supported by a large majority of the population right? Monarchs were pretty much all loved by their people. When bad stuff happened it was usually blamed on those dastardly advisers leading the king wrong!
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Feb 11, 2014 14:25
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:Is it even possible to model a globe in the way you're thinking? Pretty much every globe visualization in town just projects a flat texture onto a sphere. I wouldn't even know how Paradox would go about making and texturing such a thing without relying on the same 2d graphical doodads they use now. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 14:35
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Fintilgin posted:I think they've said they don't want to/won't do a globe. Remember how in XCOM the Skyranger would sometimes fly in one pole and out the other? Globes are the worst! More seriously, it would be quite a lot of effort to make, so it's unlikely to be something we do until/unless we really need to be able to travel over the poles like in a cold war or modern era game.
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Feb 11, 2014 14:36
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Now I'm envisioning a Paradox game where you have to manage your nation in the age of XCOM. Manage expenditures between media suppression, riot control/police, funding for XCOM, rebuilding of collateral damage and economic expansion to keep up with rising costs. How long can you keep telling The Commander that he can address the abductions in the other countries, you don't need the help just yet? Do you buy spare Plasma Rifles off the Grey Market to fund your own paramilitary force? Do you want to take advantage of the rising terror in the neighboring country to send some troops there on a "peacekeeping mission"? Can you keep your advisors uncorrupted by the Ethereals long enough for the final strike against Cydonia?
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Feb 11, 2014 14:47
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DrProsek posted:rebels all use the Rome civil war mechanics so you can switch over to the communist rebels and lead the people's revolution against your own government. Please make this a thing. Victoria's rebel system is so stupid at the moment.
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Feb 11, 2014 15:58
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Darkrenown posted:Remember how in XCOM the Skyranger would sometimes fly in one pole and out the other? Globes are the worst! Well, the poles would be impassable wasteland anyway, so that problem's solved. It's one of those features that's totally fluff/aesthetic, so I totally understand why you guys don't do it, but I don't think it would LOOK pretty amazing, especially for something like HOI. I honestly think it would move copies and get good previews, just because it would visually be a big jump like moving from the old 2D EUII style maps to the new 3D ones. Playing at zoomed in level would like 95% the same anyway.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:14
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Autonomous Monster posted:
James The 1st fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 16:25
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Fintilgin posted:It's one of those features that's totally fluff/aesthetic, so I totally understand why you guys don't do it, but I don't think it would LOOK pretty amazing, especially for something like HOI. I honestly think it would move copies and get good previews, just because it would visually be a big jump like moving from the old 2D EUII style maps to the new 3D ones. There are still people mad we moved to 3d maps, imagine what would happen if we made globes 
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Feb 11, 2014 16:25
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^^^^^^^ DIE DIE DIEFintilgin posted:big jump like moving from the old 2D EUII style maps to the new 3D ones. Biggest mistake they ever made. Can anyone mod EU3 DW's map into EU4 for me? TIA Edit: I'd be fine with flat textures on a globe though.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:30
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Darkrenown posted:There are still people mad we moved to 3d maps, imagine what would happen if we made globes What you ought to do is to make Morporkia Universalis. A fully 3D map of a flat world balanced upon four elephants who balance atop a giant turtle, who swims through space.
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Feb 11, 2014 16:32
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Tomn posted:What you ought to do is to make Morporkia Universalis. A fully 3D map of a flat world balanced upon four elephants who balance atop a giant turtle, who swims through space. This exists
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Feb 11, 2014 16:34
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Tomn posted:What you ought to do is to make Morporkia Universalis. A fully 3D map of a flat world balanced upon four elephants who balance atop a giant turtle, who swims through space. I totally want this to be a thing Rumda posted:This exists wut?
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Feb 11, 2014 16:40
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Rumda posted:This exists I'm aware of the mod, but it's not fully 3D and it doesn't model the turtle and the elephants, does it? Can you look at the underside of the Disc? I thought not. Edit: Fairly certain this is what he was talking about. Tomn fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 16:48
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Rumda posted:This exists  Tell me more. I will buy whatever game and dlc required
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Feb 11, 2014 16:48
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fspades posted:Literal Nazis are one thing, but what's up with Paradox forums and self-proclaimed "monarchists". Who the hell are these people? Do they live with us here in the 21st century? Why do I never encounter them in the real world? I'm actually friends with a bunch of Americans who are legit monarchists. They're all right-wing Catholics who reacted to the "everything was poo poo" popular misconception about the Middle Ages by saying "no, everything was sunshine and roses and it's been downhill since the 1500s." (They're nice people but very crazy.)
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Feb 11, 2014 17:06
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That Discworld mod is actually pretty cool looking, as far as interesting maps go. Also, is there any particular reason why the EY4 in all its weird oddity, just asked me as Muscovy, to challenge the Glorious Lithuanian-Genoese Personal Union in a succession war? I wasn't aware I was even connected to Genoa in anyway, let alone this absurdity.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:11
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I will never understand monarchists. The idea of a hereditary head of state should have died with this guy.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:15
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And yet the idea of holding a popularity contest to see who gets to rule is still done.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:25
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Westminster System posted:That Discworld mod is actually pretty cool looking, as far as interesting maps go. Same dynasty, probably.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:25
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I think the kind of 'monarchists' you see talking about how everything was so much better during the middle ages or whatever, are more generally just hardcore romanticists of that era, which ends up folding in the Arthurian image of a shining King that lives and reigns as a beacon for all (which amusingly enough doesn't fit that well with the lore itself, however many changes its seen). Their logic is that everything was better then, including Kings, and therefore the Kings must have been a key part in the utopias they imagine. Generally, what has sustained the notion of a monarchy in Europe has been a combination of change, practical usage (yes, this is a thing), some good PR, and possibly comedic levity. I suppose its because stuff like Crusader Kings is focused on the continuation of one's dynasty against other dynasties that the politics of keeping yourself popular to the people is 'don't fire up revolts' and not much else, and it would admittedly add on a tonne of potential mechanics that would need so much extra work to implement into games proper. But, it would be cool if like, say you failed in stopping a peasant revolt, or otherwise sparked a civil war that saw your dynasty banished, you then get prompted about the possibility of an English Restoration style scenario wherein you can regain your crown, at the cost of certain caps on your power.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:32
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Somebody posted a fantastic modding tool for Darkest Hour out of nowhere last night. Had to restart my computer to get it to cooperate, but it works.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:34
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Riso posted:And yet the idea of holding a popularity contest to see who gets to rule is still done. Dubya was at least capable of forming words.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:34
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StashAugustine posted:I'm actually friends with a bunch of Americans who are legit monarchists. They're all right-wing Catholics who reacted to the "everything was poo poo" popular misconception about the Middle Ages by saying "no, everything was sunshine and roses and it's been downhill since the 1500s." (They're nice people but very crazy.) Frankly, I can see where they're coming from. The 8th-13th centuries are probably my favorite period to study, and a lot happens in terms of scientific development and cultural change that's just brushed over with the really ridiculous "poverty and squalor and ignorance" brush that just infuriates me when I see people talk here and elsewhere. How the idea of planting clover to more rapidly recharge soil originated in Flanders and slowly appears/disappears again in a sort of patchwork over Europe for the next four hundred years is one of my favorite topics. The beginning of using oxen as draft animals around 1000, one of the biggest advances ever in terms of agricultural efficiency (the vaunted Romans never did that!), is similarly ignored. A lot of history buffs like to talk about cities, about Rome and Constantinople, or Florence and Venice, or London and Paris, and there's a whole exciting world out there in the fields that they never address, so during the eclipse of the cities they just think "welp, nothing's going on." Rural history has always been fascinating to me, and in the Middle Ages where it takes the forefront it is even more so. I just really hate it when people bash the Middle Ages because it doesn't contain enough urban life and act as if there aren't amazing, exciting changes (more rapid regeneration of soil! The three-field rotation system!) going on in this period.
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Feb 11, 2014 17:35
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Riso posted:And yet the idea of holding a popularity contest to see who gets to rule is still done. Monarchies are such a weird roll of the dice. Yeah, sometimes you get the kind of driven, farsighted, ambitious person who changes history and gets monuments dedicated to them a thousand years after their death, but more often you get their socially awkward , incompetent children who never would have got anywhere near real power if they hadn't been born in to it. Like Marcus Aurelius and Commodus, Edward I and Edward II ,  George Bush and George W. Bush. I guess it's nice if you think you're going to be one of the nobles, but there's a reason most of the landed nobility were killed or lost power in Europe and it sure aint because they were so nice and benevolent. Raskolnikov38 posted:Dubya was at least capable of forming words. He's a very misunderestimated man. Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Feb 11, 2014 |
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Feb 11, 2014 17:45
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