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MMD3 posted:So should I just give up on thoughts of a budget R/G monsters deck then? I was really liking my nessian wilds ravager, Messina asp, sedge scorpion, etc. but I guess I should branch out. GR monsters is probably the worst deck to attempt to budget since basically every card it plays is rare or mythic, and since it is a midrange deck it needs the increased efficiency those cards provide. MonoB is kinda expensive too if only due to the Mutavaults and Thoughtseizes. I'd say if you really want to play a low cost deck try playing RDW hyper aggro, IE nothing but 1 and 2 drops. One of the regs at my store does that and he has a pretty impressive showing every week.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:32
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ManiacMatt posted:As another possible way to take advantage of tokens, what are the thoughts on Sanguine Bond and Bubbling Cauldron. I just don't know what you would drop with it. But once they're on board, it's an 8 point life swing every token you sac. It's also late getting online. But just throwing that out there. You could probably drop the Cauldron and use Trading Post which is already in the deck to achieve a similar effect.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:33
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Zoness posted:To be fair that kind of thing looks appealing solely based on prize structure. Prize structure nothing, 3 packs for $8 is a good deal. Getting to open the packs and play a few games with them right then is value++. The chance for prize packs on TOP of that is gravy on top of an already great bargain.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:45
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Fish Of Doom posted:In my experience, Rakdos Aggro destroys mono black. Side out the Marauders for thoughtseizes and burn, and side out the doom blades for dark betrayals. Mono black is usually just too slow to deal with something that wins turn 4 or 5. I've never lost to mono black with it, though this was all pre Drown in Sorrow, which probably hurts the match up a bit. How big of a hit is not having Thoughtseize? I've got the deck built except for those and I'm not really excited about purchasing a whole playset that costs more than the rest of the deck. Any suggestions for other SB candidates in lieu of Thoughtseize?
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Feb 12, 2014 21:57
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Cactrot posted:How big of a hit is not having Thoughtseize? I've got the deck built except for those and I'm not really excited about purchasing a whole playset that costs more than the rest of the deck. I'm sorry but if you haven't played with the card you really should. It's pricy to acquire but just proxy it up and test the list with some friends then replace it with a Duress and you can see the difference. Duress exists but Thoughtseize is really that good.
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Feb 12, 2014 21:59
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Cactrot posted:How big of a hit is not having Thoughtseize? I've got the deck built except for those and I'm not really excited about purchasing a whole playset that costs more than the rest of the deck. Duress isn't terrible, but it's no Thoughtseize. They are a really solid investment because of modern. The price will almost certainly never go down.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:00
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ScarletBrother posted:^^^^ This is like what I said when I was buying Hero's Downfalls...I kept saying "I can just get Doom Blade or Ultimate Price". Having played using both Hero's Downfall and the other options the difference is noticable. I bought Thoughtseize to keep in my sideboard for Murdergoat after I played with Duress...being able to get rid of creatures as well as anything that isn't a land is fairly noticable. Getting rid of a Burning Tree Emissary or Fanatic of Mogis BEFORE it hits the board will actually make you see the difference.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:03
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Since we're on the subject, this is an excellent article dealing with Thoughtseize.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:11
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EDIT: R/W/T Thoughtseize, the initial version of MG.dec ran 4 mainboard and 4 Duress with 3-4 Slaughter Games in the Sideboard. Needless to say, Control decks got wrecked post-game 1.  If Control ever gets as pervasive and annoying as it was during INN-RTR/Super Standard, I'll probably start building towards that again. I even have the two Rakdos's Returns.Tharizdun posted:I put together Rakdos Humanggro and I just can't understand Exava's role. She's a 4/4 Haster for 4, sure, but is that enough? I keep coming back to Cryptborn Horror as an alternative, because dropping him on 4 and also firing off a Thoughtseize to take their board-wipe or big green dude seems good. Beaten like a Frostborn Weird in combat with an Unleash'd Exava, but her 4 power and first strike are what make her really good. Kudos to whomever pointed out she also has a Human subtype. Cryptborn is also entirely dependent on how much damage your opponent took before playing it, which can make it anything from useful to absolute dogshite depending on the context; Exava doesn't hit the same peaks Cryptborn is capable of but doesn't trawl through the same valleys, either. ManiacMatt posted:As another possible way to take advantage of tokens, what are the thoughts on Sanguine Bond and Bubbling Cauldron. I just don't know what you would drop with it. But once they're on board, it's an 8 point life swing every token you sac. It's also late getting online. But just throwing that out there. OssiansFolly posted:You could probably drop the Cauldron and use Trading Post which is already in the deck to achieve a similar effect. Yeah, Cauldron is nice but Trading Post and Tymaret are pretty nice sac outlets by themselves and tend to be more flexible - moreso in the current version of the deck that runs Ratchet Bombs maindeck, so artifact recursion is more important (especially when you can just discard it to 'Post to gain 4 life and then get it back later). Maybe if Cauldron makes it into M15 and Trading Post doesn't. I hope not; I love me some goats.  Samael posted:bhsman, have you ever thought of using Goblin Rally as a finisher? 3RR for 4 tokens in this deck could probably absolutely lethal late game with purphoros and pyromancer out, instant 10 damage to the face. Eh, like Sanguine Blood I feel like the deck shouldn't go above 5 CMC unless there's a good reason (Trading Post is effectively 5 CMC already), and Goblin Rally just feels like a win more. Dropping a Molten Birth with Young Pyromancer out, dealing six, getting back, and playing it again in the same turn only requires a little bit of luck and one more mana for 12 damage and 6 tokens, and all without having to make room for new cards. bhsman fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 22:13
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bhsman posted:Eh, like Sanguine Blood I feel like the deck shouldn't go above 5 CMC unless there's a good reason (Trading Post is effectively 5 CMC already), and Goblin Rally just feels like a win more. Dropping a Molten Birth with Young Pyromancer out, dealing six, getting back, and playing it again in the same turn only requires a little bit of luck and one more mana for 12 damage and 6 tokens, and all without having to make room for new cards. I still say the best thing is being able to cycle Tymaret because of the Legendary rule. In any normal deck he is really sub par, but in this deck he shines as a master of recurrence.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:19
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OssiansFolly posted:I still say the best thing is being able to cycle Tymaret because of the Legendary rule. In any normal deck he is really sub par, but in this deck he shines as a master of recurrence. Block-recur-recast (2 damage via Purphoros) with Murder King must be the most maddening thing you can do to someone with this deck. Well, it would be if they understood what all your cards do none of them do  .EDIT: Part of me wants to sit down and just write out all the different interactions this deck has. bhsman fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 12, 2014 |
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Feb 12, 2014 22:23
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bhsman posted:Block-recur-recast (2 damage via Purphoros) must be the most maddening thing you can do to someone with this deck. Oh I posted like a page back or so how I cast Tymaret, sacced a creature to put one back in hand, dropped Tymaret and then sacced a creature for 2 damage and my opponent swept and cried the whole rest of the night about the "gimmick".
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Feb 12, 2014 22:25
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ScarletBrother posted:^^^^ It will certainly drop after it rotates out of standard. Sure it's a modern and legacy staple but the sheer quantity of them opened and played as a 4-of in standard is going to inevitably reduce demand.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:35
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OssiansFolly posted:Oh I posted like a page back or so how I cast Tymaret, sacced a creature to put one back in hand, dropped Tymaret and then sacced a creature for 2 damage and my opponent swept and cried the whole rest of the night about the "gimmick". These are my favourite type of decks. Decks that just have stupid gimmicks and play to them, and force the opponent go  I like "Janky" decks that are just good enough/tricky enough to weasel games out of people who think their net deck should never lose.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:40
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A big flaming stink posted:It will certainly drop after it rotates out of standard. Sure it's a modern and legacy staple but the sheer quantity of them opened and played as a 4-of in standard is going to inevitably reduce demand. So much magic is being played now that a Standard reprint is the only thing that reliably drops the price of a staple card anymore.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:42
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ScarletBrother posted:In terms of budget decks, it really depends on how competitive you want to be. Are you just going to be playing against your friend(s)? Do you want to compete at FNM? GPTs? PTQs? How much is your budget? so... I'm just playing casually with friends, not planning on doing FNM, might keep doing pre-release sealed tournies here and there for fun. budget is whatever, I don't want to spend $200 upfront on building a good fun deck to play constructed with friends, but I'd maybe spend $50 up front and then grow it into a $100+ deck if I enjoy playing it enough over the coming months. I also don't want to have like 5 x $50 decks just yet. Building a couple of well-rounded budget decks for fun casual play with friends that doesn't result in me being steam-rolled everytime is really my only goal. I like the idea of pauper but I don't like the idea of not ever being able to play with the shiny rares I open up and I'm sure my friends would all agree that it's too limiting. When tapped is back up I'll link to the BU heroic deck my friend just built to give you an idea of what I'm hoping to play up to. What's this about murdergoats? is there a deck list somewhere? Thanks for the advice.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:42
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Entropic posted:So much magic is being played now that a Standard reprint is the only thing that reliably drops the price of a staple card anymore. Unless it's named Mutavault 
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Feb 12, 2014 22:43
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MMD3 posted:What's this about murdergoats? is there a deck list somewhere? <-See the hyperlink in my avatar text? Click that. EDIT: TappedOut seems to be down, you might have to check later. As an aside, I think we should take any further discussion of the deck to the Brewhaus at this point.
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Feb 12, 2014 22:44
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MMD3 posted:so... I'm just playing casually with friends, not planning on doing FNM, might keep doing pre-release sealed tournies here and there for fun. http://www.mtgvault.com/decks/search/?q=hyper-budget&searchtype=decktags
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Feb 12, 2014 23:07
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A big flaming stink posted:Unless it's named Mutavault They sank down to 17 when M14 came out. You had your chance.  As did I 
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Feb 12, 2014 23:48
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Count Bleck posted:They sank down to 17 when M14 came out. The one really good call I made this Standard: got my set at that time, including a foil for less than a normal one is worth now. If only the rest of my purchases had worked out nearly as well 
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Feb 13, 2014 00:12
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I've been hanging onto a grip of mutavaults since last summer. I kinda want to build mono-B; do you guys think I should keep or dump while they're over 30?
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Feb 13, 2014 00:15
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BaronVonVaderham posted:The one really good call I made this Standard: got my set at that time, including a foil for less than a normal one is worth now. If only the rest of my purchases had worked out nearly as well I just traded a Elspeth for a mutavault yesterday, dunno if that is a good trade or not.  Now I need one more to put in my deck, though I can't seem to find one under £20.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:24
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Samael posted:I just traded a Elspeth for a mutavault yesterday, dunno if that is a good trade or not. I usually see elspeth for around $18 and I've seen mutavaults selling regularly for $30-40 so it sounds like someone ran off with a good trade. I hate mutavaults because I dont have any and they're so expensive and theyre good in almost every deck. Cant wait for them to rotate out.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:27
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Samael posted:I just traded a Elspeth for a mutavault yesterday, dunno if that is a good trade or not. Elspeth averages about 25 in the States, Mutavault 40. I'd say you made out. Fingers McLongDong posted:I usually see elspeth for around $18 and I've seen mutavaults selling regularly for $30-40 so it sounds like someone ran off with a good trade. I hate mutavaults because I dont have any and they're so expensive and theyre good in almost every deck. Cant wait for them to rotate out. I can wait because then Izzet goes back to being mediocre at best after we get all our new toys in April.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:27
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Boco_T posted:If you'd like to try out a few different types of decks, there's a guy on MTG Vault that's been doing "hyper budget" builds. You can generally order all the cards for these for under $5 on TCG Player, so basically if you say "Instead of buying 2 booster packs today I'm going to order 2 decks" and then you can have something for your friends to play or whatever. wow, these are pretty awesome, thanks! It'd be nice to see some variants though... are there any series' like this that are closer to a $30-40 budget with some key rares thrown in?
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Feb 13, 2014 01:17
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Odds are pretty good that you can improve any of those decks with the addition of some money. It's a bit of a toss up whether those cards would hit the price point you're looking for, but since they're generally running sub-optimal cards, simply slowing subbing in the optimal ones gives the deck a growth curve. This is actually what I'm planning with my GR monsters - use fanatic of Xenagos or Boon Satyr over Courser of Kruphix and Forgestoker over Stormbreath. Those are really big downgrades, but it at least lets me put a deck together if I want to run it at FNM. The deck is very questionable without Domri, though, and I have zero of four.
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Feb 13, 2014 01:36
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Count Bleck posted:Elspeth averages about 25 in the States, Mutavault 40. Awww, you never know. Keranos may be the most brokenest god ever. I'm thinking..."every time a sorcery or instant is put into your grave, deal 2 damage to target opponent". Hello Steam Augury! How are you?
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Feb 13, 2014 01:56
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AlternateNu posted:Awww, you never know. Keranos may be the most brokenest god ever. I'm thinking..."every time a sorcery or instant is put into your grave, deal 2 damage to target opponent". Hello Steam Augury! How are you? Oh man, if this happened, I would be ecstatic. I've had a standard Izzet deck for a while now that's been casual but still very consistent and strong. If something like that popped up, I would definitely try my hand at making it competitive.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:01
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Ramos posted:Oh man, if this happened, I would be ecstatic. I've had a standard Izzet deck for a while now that's been casual but still very consistent and strong. If something like that popped up, I would definitely try my hand at making it competitive. Do you happen to have the list on you? I've been trying to make Izzet work and it just does not agree with me in the slightest despite loving the color combination.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:39
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I'm blanking - do we know the name of the Orzhov god? I feel like it has to be somewhere, but darn if I can think of it.
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Feb 13, 2014 04:14
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Boxman posted:I'm blanking - do we know the name of the Orzhov god? I feel like it has to be somewhere, but darn if I can think of it. Athreos.
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Feb 13, 2014 04:15
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tzirean posted:Athreos. Athreos, god of Extortion. Again. gently caress you.
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Feb 13, 2014 04:17
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In today's Uncharted Realms we learned some neat plot / setting stuff. Apparently Elspeth killing that Hydra really pissed Nylea off, Kruphix (GU God) is apparently the eldest of the Gods and spoke for the first time in forever making all the gods basically retreat into the heavens and lock up the shop after Xenagos got in, which is why Kiora is able to strut around pretending to be Thassa since apparently even Thassa does not want to go against Kruphix what since he is the old guy.
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Feb 13, 2014 04:23
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Zorak posted:In today's Uncharted Realms we learned some neat plot / setting stuff. Apparently Elspeth killing that Hydra really pissed Nylea off, Kruphix (GU God) is apparently the eldest of the Gods and spoke for the first time in forever making all the gods basically retreat into the heavens and lock up the shop after Xenagos got in, which is why Kiora is able to strut around pretending to be Thassa since apparently even Thassa does not want to go against Kruphix what since he is the old guy. Older than Heliod, the supposed Zeus of this Pantheon? drat 
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Feb 13, 2014 04:38
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Zorak posted:In today's Uncharted Realms we learned some neat plot / setting stuff. Apparently Elspeth killing that Hydra really pissed Nylea off, Kruphix (GU God) is apparently the eldest of the Gods and spoke for the first time in forever making all the gods basically retreat into the heavens and lock up the shop after Xenagos got in, which is why Kiora is able to strut around pretending to be Thassa since apparently even Thassa does not want to go against Kruphix what since he is the old guy. Well, this explains the strange favor text on Kiora's Follower that was bothering me earlier this week.
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Feb 13, 2014 04:40
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Count Bleck posted:Older than Heliod, the supposed Zeus of this Pantheon? Yeah Father Zeus isn't the oldest in the Greek pantheon either. I'm getting into Standard right now, very anxiously looking for decks since rotation and found the ones from the SCG tournament last weekend, but has anybody seen decklists from the Super Series tournament? clamiam45 fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 04:46
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clamiam45 posted:I'm getting into Standard right now, very anxiously looking for decks since rotation and found the ones from the SCG tournament last weekend, but has anybody seen decklists from the Super Series tournament?
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Feb 13, 2014 04:53
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Count Bleck posted:Do you happen to have the list on you? http://pastebin.com/mE2eAWjJ It's not amazing, but it ends up working out better than expected far more often than you might think. A few major things: 1. Never play more than one creature card at a time. Now with control having a lot of sweepers, you rather have to do this to force card advantage. Luckily, both Guttersnipe and Young Pyromancer demand removal as they just let you keep getting more. 2. Don't worry about taking damage early on, you can trade up better if you take things slowly. 3. The lack of lands isn't as bad as you think as you will constantly be taking your turn at the end of theirs and often drawing enough cards. 4. Spellheart Chimera is always a finisher. That thing has often got up to 20 power for me before. And no, the sideboard isn't complete, largely because I haven't been taking this deck too seriously. It could probably use a few more islands and few less mountains. Overall, I could be tinkering with it more than I am.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:01
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Any reason you're running Inspiration over Divination? I can't see needing to give your opponents more cards. e: Ah perhaps instant speed works better with the Guttersnipes. I understand it.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:11
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