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danbanana posted:If they can actually run, they're not actually beer nerds. it's analogous to moms who flip over a car because their kids are trapped inside.
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Feb 12, 2014 23:55
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HatfulOfHollow posted:Tria Taproom just opened a few months ago on 21st and Walnut (not to be confused with Tria on 18th and Spruce). It's like 2 blocks from the Mutter Museum and they have been getting a lot of buzz. Just wanted to say I was here a couple weeks ago and thought it was great. They had a really good taplist, got to try some stuff I'd been wanting and never had, and their draft menu is on Ipads that they pass around. They show the description of the beer, size, ABV etc, and a graphic of the percentage left in the keg. I don't know if this is commonplace nowadays but I thought it was pretty sweet.
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Feb 13, 2014 00:17
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To whoever was unaware of Hopslam prices earlier in the thread - a local grocery store (Giant) had 6packs for $25 (and, predictably, lots of it). Of course I bought one, who needs to pay off debt. I don't even care about this beer, I just want it to taste like the second time I had it. 
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Feb 13, 2014 01:03
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ChickenArise posted:To whoever was unaware of Hopslam prices earlier in the thread - a local grocery store (Giant) had 6packs for $25 (and, predictably, lots of it). The one in Arlington at Spout run? I grabbed one from there too. My friend sent me a pic of the stack they had there today and went after work. They had like 7 cases. This after hearing that people lined up at 12:28 at one of the whole foods and all of it sold out there in two minutes. I read somewhere that Giant gets so many just cause they stock so much other Bell's beer. I'm off work tomorrow so I'm about to crack one open now.
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Feb 13, 2014 01:07
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Yep. The parking lot was worse than I've ever seen with OMG SNOW people, and I just needed a case of Yeungling and some DIPA so I can hold onto some bombers that I'm saving for the weekend.
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Feb 13, 2014 01:20
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One of the liquor stores by my house is charging 4 dollars a bottle for Hopslam, and they have one by the register. I'm not entirely unconvinced that they're stockpiling it in back and basically charging 24 bucks a sixer.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:25
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after having aged Peche Mortel on draft a few years back and thinking it was amazing, i decided, "hey, i know these are coffee beers, but what the hell, let's age a few!" so, in the last two days, i have opened a 2011 Wake-n-Bake, 2011 FBS, and 2011 Peche Mortel... and ended up dumping both of the latter. WnB had zero coffee and was just sort of a regular sweetish stout, but the other two were really bitter, ashy, and astringent. i could've choked either down, but it would not have been fun. drinking a 2013 Peche Mortel to compare and, yeah, i don't know what kind of magic happened with that keg,* but this is definitely a beer that needs to be consumed fresh. again, i know, coffee beers and all, but figured it would be at least mildly educational, and the more i try aging beer for multiple years, the more i realize that it doesn't do a lot of them any favors. *cold storage in a keg vs cellar storage in a screw-top bottle, probably
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Feb 13, 2014 02:25
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funkybottoms posted:after having aged Peche Mortel on draft a few years back and thinking it was amazing, i decided, "hey, i know these are coffee beers, but what the hell, let's age a few!" so, in the last two days, i have opened a 2011 Wake-n-Bake, 2011 FBS, and 2011 Peche Mortel... and ended up dumping both of the latter. WnB had zero coffee and was just sort of a regular sweetish stout, but the other two were really bitter, ashy, and astringent. i could've choked either down, but it would not have been fun. drinking a 2013 Peche Mortel to compare and, yeah, i don't know what kind of magic happened with that keg,* but this is definitely a beer that needs to be consumed fresh. I've pretty much resolved to only cellar things for flavour development that are well known to develop well over time like lambics, Expedition, regular BCBS, and a few others. Pretty much everything else I have now is going to be drank within a year or so, most of it sooner than that.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:33
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I hate bragging about prices but man, the bottle shop near my work has a 10% off deal on all their beer, plus another 10% off if you buy 6+, and another 10% off if you check in on Facebook. So I walked out with 3x Sucaba at $9.80ea along with 3 other nicely discounted beers for BIF.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:34
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funkybottoms posted:after having aged Peche Mortel on draft a few years back and thinking it was amazing, i decided, "hey, i know these are coffee beers, but what the hell, let's age a few!" so, in the last two days, i have opened a 2011 Wake-n-Bake, 2011 FBS, and 2011 Peche Mortel... and ended up dumping both of the latter. WnB had zero coffee and was just sort of a regular sweetish stout, but the other two were really bitter, ashy, and astringent. i could've choked either down, but it would not have been fun. drinking a 2013 Peche Mortel to compare and, yeah, i don't know what kind of magic happened with that keg,* but this is definitely a beer that needs to be consumed fresh. I started putting things away, including a ton of different imperial stouts, few FBS and a Peche Mortel, a few years ago. After I move, I'm going to start drinking them down, but I'm not expecting a whole lot out of most of them.
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Feb 13, 2014 02:45
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crazyfish posted:I've pretty much resolved to only cellar things for flavour development that are well known to develop well over time like lambics, Expedition, regular BCBS, and a few others. Pretty much everything else I have now is going to be drank within a year or so, most of it sooner than that. Bramble is drinking better than ever right now....
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Feb 13, 2014 02:57
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crazyfish posted:I've pretty much resolved to only cellar things for flavour development that are well known to develop well over time like lambics, Expedition, regular BCBS, and a few others. Pretty much everything else I have now is going to be drank within a year or so, most of it sooner than that. like i said, it's more educational than anything else- i started holding on to a bunch of high-ABV beers a few years back to see what this aging thing was all about and, aside from a few sets of verticals, wild/sours, and barleywines, have decided that, yes, one year should be the maximum, not the minimum.
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Feb 13, 2014 03:34
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funkybottoms posted:like i said, it's more educational than anything else- i started holding on to a bunch of high-ABV beers a few years back to see what this aging thing was all about and, aside from a few sets of verticals, wild/sours, and barleywines, have decided that, yes, one year should be the maximum, not the minimum. What's the consensus on things like Belgian quads? I have a few Rochefort 10s I'm gonna hold on to, and I'd like to see what happens with some other readily available Belgians. Also I have some barleywines, a couple sours, and some stouts that are known to age well. I have a lot of other stouts in my cellar that I kind of just keep until the occasion comes up where I want to open it. And what about things like The Beast which is like 18%, and Mephistopheles which is 15%? Likely just to stay the same over a few years?
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Feb 13, 2014 04:09
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nosleep posted:What's the consensus on things like Belgian quads? I have a few Rochefort 10s I'm gonna hold on to, and I'd like to see what happens with some other readily available Belgians. Also I have some barleywines, a couple sours, and some stouts that are known to age well. I have a lot of other stouts in my cellar that I kind of just keep until the occasion comes up where I want to open it. The trappist quads are generally known to age well. Kulminator in Antwerp sells Chimay Blue and various other quads from the '80s at shockingly reasonable prices.
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Feb 13, 2014 04:18
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nosleep posted:What's the consensus on things like Belgian quads? I have a few Rochefort 10s I'm gonna hold on to, and I'd like to see what happens with some other readily available Belgians. Also I have some barleywines, a couple sours, and some stouts that are known to age well. I have a lot of other stouts in my cellar that I kind of just keep until the occasion comes up where I want to open it. In my experiences quads tend to hold on to age nicely. The oxidation effects aren't as pronounced as in other styles since Quads tend to have a lot of the fig/grape flavors that are associated with oxidation (byproduct of aging) to begin with. I find that stouts are one of the worst styles to age, but then again I hate any sort of huge fig notes in my stouts. Anything as high as 15%+ will hold it's age nicely, though some beers like Dogfish Head's World Wide Stout aged gracefully (yes I know I said I hated aging stouts). I find that, to my taste, big imperial stouts are best around 6-9 months, once the hops have faded nearly completely. Barleywines, if American, should be drank fresh, if English style best drank any time before 2 years. Sours I've not enough experience with, but I tend to not worry about their age, I haven't aged any to compare to fresh. In my opinion if you want to age anything make sure you have had it fresh and can get it fresh to see how it's changed. Some examples that are near me that make great aging candidates would be Victory's Storm King, Great Divide's Yeti, North Coast's Old Rasputin, Port Brewing's Old Viscosity, Weyerbacher's Blithering Idiot, Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot and Brooklyn's Monster Ale. I don't agree with aging all of these, but I list them since they are ageable styles/beers that are rather consistent in flavor batch to batch.
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Feb 13, 2014 04:53
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Midorka posted:Some examples that are near me that make great aging candidates would be Victory's Storm King Has anybody done this to confirm? I get a case of Storm King every winter but, uh, it never seems to stick around.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:05
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Tapechat: Upon trying to explain the concept to my fiancée, she asked if home brews would be "mixtapes"  We're heading down to the National Harbor, MD area for the weekend - no time to visit any good bars unfortunately, but I'm looking forward to seeing what the shops have! Though we might hit a DuClaw brewpub on the way back up north Sunday.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:06
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funkybottoms posted:aside from a few sets of verticals, wild/sours, and barleywines, have decided that, yes, one year should be the maximum, not the minimum. The counterpoint to this is Orval which I have heard (from multiple sources) is better at 1 year and continues to develop for up to 2, at which point further cellaring doesn't really do any good. If I could find fresh Orval on any sort of regular basis I'd like to do this comparison myself. And I've heard similar things for a lot of Belgian beers. They're great fresh but get much better with a year or two on them. My only personal experience with this was t'Gaverhopke Extra, which is great fresh but way better with 6+ months on it.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:23
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crazyfish posted:The trappist quads are generally known to age well. Kulminator in Antwerp sells Chimay Blue and various other quads from the '80s at shockingly reasonable prices. On aging chat, there are some things I deliberately age for verticals or just because I think they need to mellow or whatever. There are also a lot of things I age unintentionally because I buy things that interest me faster than I, personally, can consume them. Also I moved, so most of my beerfriends are in a different state now. Slightly related, I sure as hell wish I could find more Sucaba. Only saw it at one shop so far here, and they only got 12 bottles, so 1 per person limit of course.
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Feb 13, 2014 05:59
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Manky posted:Has anybody done this to confirm? I get a case of Storm King every winter but, uh, it never seems to stick around. Storm King is basically an imperial black IPA. If you age it, like Yeti, the hops fall off and you're left with a great imperial stout. Outside of 8 months I've never found it to grow to my liking. It's worth a try though as it's a consistent beer with aging potential. HatfulOfHollow posted:The counterpoint to this is Orval which I have heard (from multiple sources) is better at 1 year and continues to develop for up to 2, at which point further cellaring doesn't really do any good. If I could find fresh Orval on any sort of regular basis I'd like to do this comparison myself. Any beer with Brett, Orval, can be aged. The amount you're going to like it is completely indicative by how much you like Brett. Brett will make a beer more dry and leathery (my experience) as time goes on. Brett beers, in my experience, peak at 1 year before the Brett is way out of balance. Edit: Aging Sucaba, don't worry about it. IMO it barely changes, source: did a 3 year vertical. Firestone know their barrel process more than any other brewery and rarely releases beer not ready to drink at 100% or near it.
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Feb 13, 2014 06:44
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Midorka posted:Edit: Aging Sucaba, don't worry about it. IMO it barely changes, source: did a 3 year vertical. Firestone know their barrel process more than any other brewery and rarely releases beer not ready to drink at 100% or near it. We had an Abacus from 2011 at the goon share and I'm pretty much convinced that stuff ages like gold. Granted, I didn't do a vertical and am basing my opinion off tasting different years at different times. I think the only barleywines that I've really enjoyed fresh is BCBBW and probably Revolution's Straight Jacket. Rev's Straight Jacked with time was just ok...though their 2013 3rd Anniversary Beer (BW aged in Rum barrels) was drinking absolutely fantastic at the event last Saturday.
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Feb 13, 2014 14:21
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funkybottoms posted:the more i try aging beer for multiple years, the more i realize that it doesn't do a lot of them any favors. 
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Feb 13, 2014 14:45
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Compusaurus posted:though their 2013 3rd Anniversary Beer (BW aged in Rum barrels) was drinking absolutely fantastic at the event last Saturday. This is good to know. I thought it was overly hot when new. And I know of a place in the burbs that still had a couple bottles on the shelf. Also, not to be that guy, it's technically a wheat wine.
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Feb 13, 2014 14:51
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My brewing professor (Charlie Bamforth) said that aging beer is a silly concept, if it's not at its optimum flavor when the brewers release it for distribution then the brewers aren't doing their job right ... of course he is coming from a more macro-centric mind set and background and I do disagree a bit as I've had some really excellent aged beers, but I just thought it interesting to hear his perspective on it.
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Feb 13, 2014 14:53
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HatfulOfHollow posted:The counterpoint to this is Orval which I have heard (from multiple sources) is better at 1 year and continues to develop for up to 2, at which point further cellaring doesn't really do any good. If I could find fresh Orval on any sort of regular basis I'd like to do this comparison myself imo Orval is worth checking out bottles out every 4-6 months ad infinitum. It's a cool beer. I haven't personally enjoyed Storm King with much age, but I love the hops. Another important exception to the above - fruited sours shouldn't be kept for too long. A lot of the fruit character goes away with age.
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Feb 13, 2014 14:58
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Jerome Louis posted:My brewing professor (Charlie Bamforth) said that aging beer is a silly concept, if it's not at its optimum flavor when the brewers release it for distribution then the brewers aren't doing their job right ... yeah, we seem to cover some of this same ground every few months, hence my "i know, coffee beers and all" caveat. that's why i'm running these personal experiments with shelf beers- they act as a measuring stick for other, less-common beers i might potentially want to hold on to. with a few exceptions, like HotD, yes, beer is bottled when the brewer feels that it is "ripe," but that doesn't necessarily mean that's when i feel that it tastes best- we all know someone that likes green bananas or brown, mushy bananas, right? Storm King is essentially a black IPA, so aging it seems to be missing the point of the beer.
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Feb 13, 2014 15:11
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Jerome Louis posted:My brewing professor (Charlie Bamforth) said that aging beer is a silly concept, if it's not at its optimum flavor when the brewers release it for distribution then the brewers aren't doing their job right ... funkybottoms posted:yeah, we seem to cover some of this same ground every few months, hence my "i know, coffee beers and all" caveat. that's why i'm running these personal experiments with shelf beers- they act as a measuring stick for other, less-common beers i might potentially want to hold on to. with a few exceptions, like HotD, yes, beer is bottled when the brewer feels that it is "ripe," but that doesn't necessarily mean that's when i feel that it tastes best- we all know someone that likes green bananas or brown, mushy bananas, right? I've had pretty good luck with holding onto bottles 6 months after they were filled to rough out the edges of a beer. Maybe it's silly, as it really doesn't have that much of an effect, but I much prefer Fou Foune with 6 months on it (it's not nearly as sour when it's fresh). I think you really have to think about where you want the flavors to go before you decide to age a bottle. Do you want more brett character? tart character? Less fruit? oxidation qualities? Feel free to age them. Despite was XxGirlKisserxX recommends, I'm more than willing to experiment and see what happens to CCB's Lacto Guava Grove. I find it interesting that aging beer is considered a silly concept by some in the beer industry - are there people like that in the wine world?
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Feb 13, 2014 15:20
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http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/01/31/flavor-stability-in-beer-with-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-74/ found this podcast with Charlie talking about flavor stability in brewing. Haven't listened to it but I'm sure he'll talk about what happens as beer ages
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Feb 13, 2014 15:31
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Bag of Sun Chips posted:I've had pretty good luck with holding onto bottles 6 months after they were filled to rough out the edges of a beer. Maybe it's silly, as it really doesn't have that much of an effect, but I much prefer Fou Foune with 6 months on it (it's not nearly as sour when it's fresh). I think you really have to think about where you want the flavors to go before you decide to age a bottle. Do you want more brett character? tart character? Less fruit? oxidation qualities? Feel free to age them. Wine is very specific. Most table wines are meant for immediate consumption and while they can last for a few months to a year, they don't improve and then fall off sharply. It isn't determined by price either: although the cheap stuff always ages poorly, many pricey bottles also are strictly intended to be drank within a year and then start getting worse. Then you have certain high quality stuff that often "needs" a year in the bottle and can last 5-10 years depending on the wine. I personally don't find it surprising that wine really mirrors beer in this regard. The percentage of ageable wines is definitely higher, but vintners and brewers both regularly hold back the product from market release to let it age in the foeder/barrel/etc and then bottle it when it's right. The intent for bottle conditioning needs to be a carefully thought out part of the process. However, once you get to fortified wines, all bets are off. Vintage port is generally considered prime at the 10-40 year range while the highest-end blended ports can have a minimum age of 40 years. Madeira, due to its unique oxidation process, can last significantly longer. Like, over a century.
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Feb 13, 2014 15:37
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I know that Prairie and Jester King distribute to California, but what beers are you missing from the full lineup (guessing obvious ones include brewery only releases)? I'm specifically interested in SoCal/LA area.
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Feb 13, 2014 15:38
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ChickenArise posted:Another important exception to the above - fruited sours shouldn't be kept for too long. A lot of the fruit character goes away with age. Which may or may not be to your taste. I personally find a lot of fruited beers (sours, stouts/porters) to be overly sweet/syrup-like when young. My preference is some time to let that balance more with the other flavors. BOSC pointed out earlier that Bramble is drinking really nice now (2+ years after release). I feel it peaked at 1 year, when the syrup-like flavor had faded just enough to blend really, really well with the base beer and rye barrel. Unfortunately, I think it has actually dropped off since. I wish I hadn't waited 2 years to drink my last bottle... Bag of Sun Chips posted:but I much prefer Fou Foune with 6 months on it (it's not nearly as sour when it's fresh). Really? I don't think I've had anything older than a year, but compared to the fresher samples I've had, time made that beer intensely sour. And since this comes up every 6 months, I'll write what I write every 6 months: all time does is change a beer, be it for better or worse. And even that is dependent on taste. Experimenting with shelf beers is a good way to discover that. Beer talk: I missed Behemoth this year, didn't I?
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Feb 13, 2014 15:53
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danbanana posted:Also, not to be that guy, it's technically a wheat wine. Wheat wine. You're right, thanks for the correction. danbanana posted:Beer talk: I missed Behemoth this year, didn't I? It came out...2-3 weeks ago? It's on tap at Local Option tomorrow and I doubt it'll disappear quickly. Apparently it tastes like a hoppy poo poo mess fresh though.
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Feb 13, 2014 16:04
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Compusaurus posted:It came out...2-3 weeks ago? It's on tap at Local Option tomorrow and I doubt it'll disappear quickly. Apparently it tastes like a hoppy poo poo mess fresh though. I actually like it fresh, but have a couple bottles from the last few years that I'm hoping will do something interesting with time. Wanted to keep that little vertical going but that poo poo is gone...
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Feb 13, 2014 16:12
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danbanana posted:Really? I don't think I've had anything older than a year, but compared to the fresher samples I've had, time made that beer intensely sour. I recently had 1 month old Fou Foune from the brewery and the sour quality just isn't there when it's first bottled. I like it a lot more with 6 months of time on it. edit: I'm sure there are quite a few people on here who have had fresh Fou Foune at the brewery. For all I know, maybe the fresh bottle I had was just bottle variation compared to others.
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Feb 13, 2014 16:16
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I thought last years behemoth was awful fresh but I really like this years. It's less hoppy which is a plus for me.
LeafHouse fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Feb 13, 2014 |
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Feb 13, 2014 17:10
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had the most recent vintage of BA Behemoth recently and it was awful- samples were dumped and the bottle didn't even get half-emptied
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Feb 13, 2014 17:17
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ShaneB posted:I'd read Let's talk beer 4: You just don't know how to blast tapes. My favorite tape quote is still when danbanana said "you can take that tape and blast it up your rear end"
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Feb 13, 2014 17:23
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air- posted:I know that Prairie and Jester King distribute to California, but what beers are you missing from the full lineup (guessing obvious ones include brewery only releases)? I'm specifically interested in SoCal/LA area. In LA, off the top of my head, we'll generally see the following beers available (easier than figuring out what we don't get): Jester King: Le Petit Prince, Noble King, Black Metal (I think we also get this), Wytchmaker, Mad Meg. Prairie: Puncheon, Funky Galaxy, 'Merica, Bomb!, Prairie Hop, Prairie Ale, The Beer that Saved Christmas
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Feb 13, 2014 17:25
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Eejit posted:Wine is very specific. Most table wines are meant for immediate consumption and while they can last for a few months to a year, they don't improve and then fall off sharply. It isn't determined by price either: although the cheap stuff always ages poorly, many pricey bottles also are strictly intended to be drank within a year and then start getting worse. Then you have certain high quality stuff that often "needs" a year in the bottle and can last 5-10 years depending on the wine. quote:However, once you get to fortified wines, all bets are off. Vintage port is generally considered prime at the 10-40 year range while the highest-end blended ports can have a minimum age of 40 years. Madeira, due to its unique oxidation process, can last significantly longer. Like, over a century.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:26
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Jerome Louis posted:http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/01/31/flavor-stability-in-beer-with-dr-charlie-bamforth-beersmith-podcast-74/ found this podcast with Charlie talking about flavor stability in brewing. Haven't listened to it but I'm sure he'll talk about what happens as beer ages I listened to that the other day, it's good stuff. I always love listening to Bamforth. Brad (the host) is a terrible interviewer but he always lands really great guests and so succeeds at having an interesting podcast in spite of himself
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