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goodness posted:I will definitely have to look into doing it on a grill. We have one outside the apartment, but I have actually never used a charcoal grill before. Only ever cooked on gas or electric. Breaky posted:Give yourself 1 try to gently caress it up then you'll probably get it right everytime after. It's not hard to work with. This. People are really unduly afraid of grilling with charcoal. You don't have to be a seasoned woodsman to build a charcoal fire. Unlike that romantic fire you're trying to impress your Valentines date with, this one actually wants to burn. Most foods you would think to grill are actually exceedingly forgiving. And a smoked food like this bacon/salmon curing is the most forgiving of all. In my experience, most grilled foods are messed up because the fire was too low and the cook time was therefore too short. People are too afraid they'll turn their food to a cinder so they overcompensate and make tiny fires. That is exactly what you're looking for here. It takes hours to screw it up with a tiny fire. Hell, even if you forgot about it and the fire went out for an hour, it's still gonna be just fine. Inside of the grill/smoker is a bacterial dead zone. There is tons of heat and the pH is super hosed up for them. Even if it comes down to 'room temp' it's 100% recoverable. (within reason; don't let it sit for hours and hours) Just don't try to grill a chicken until you have a grilling season under your belt. They are nefarious to grill right. *shudder*
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Feb 15, 2014 00:36
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holttho posted:Ultimately, minion method should really only be used with lump/chunk charcoal/wood. If you are using briquettes, just light them outside the grill and let them burn for just a tiny bit to get rid of the bad stuff. Then toss them in. I don't agree with this. Natural lump is way too inconsistent to work well with the minion method. If you are worried about the binder or whatever then Kingsford makes a "Competition" grade charcoal that is supposed to mimic lump but be more consistent. I stopped using lump after finding poo poo like tongue-and-groove flooring, very obvious chunks of pine, and loving fiberglass insulation in various bags of lump. That stuff is literal scrap from the flooring and foresty industry and I don't trust it to be any more free on contaminants then briquettes. Now, if you want to get really nuts, you can make your own charcoal. I am going to try this someday, but for now when I grill and have the time I build a hardwood fire and cook on that.
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Feb 15, 2014 00:41
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bunnielab posted:I don't agree with this. Natural lump is way too inconsistent to work well with the minion method. If you are worried about the binder or whatever then Kingsford makes a "Competition" grade charcoal that is supposed to mimic lump but be more consistent. I guess I've never had a problem with lump, but I am the type of guy who loves to fiddle with the fire even when it's doing well. (I got a pair of welding gloves and get my hands right in there!  ) Otherwise, I am just warning against cheap briquettes. You've rightly pointed out the high quality ones that I had mentioned are perfectly workable. And analogously there are cheap lump charcoals that are also to be avoided. Though you do bring up a good point that should be fleshed out a little more: soft woods like pine. Soft woods are soft because they contain creosote, or creosote-like-substances. This stuff, in quantities easily attained with the time it takes to smoke food, can poison you and is significantly more carcinogenic than hard wood fires. Like powers of ten worse. Do NOT use soft woods. However, their needles and sapling branches are relatively creosote free and can add nice notes of spruce or rosemary to your food. Just toss them on in the last 20 minutes or so for a new dimension. My brother makes his own charcoal, but his is for blacksmithing. He keeps telling me, "man, you should grill with this!" but keeps forgetting to add, "it burns upwards of 1400F with little to no bellowing"
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Feb 15, 2014 00:54
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holttho posted:My brother makes his own charcoal, but his is for blacksmithing. He keeps telling me, "man, you should grill with this!" but keeps forgetting to add, "it burns upwards of 1400F with little to no bellowing" Big Green Egg + Steak + this = perfection? Or for pizza - massive heat, low time. I'd play with it 
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Feb 15, 2014 01:16
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bunnielab posted:I don't agree with this. Natural lump is way too inconsistent to work well with the minion method. If you are worried about the binder or whatever then Kingsford makes a "Competition" grade charcoal that is supposed to mimic lump but be more consistent. Quit buying cheap lump charcoal. I use the Big Green Egg Lump charcoal and have never seen crap like you mention and I go through a bag a month. There's a website that ranks lump charcoal by user reviews where you can weed out the crap brands that have junk in the bags.
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Feb 15, 2014 01:33
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ShadowStalker posted:Quit buying cheap lump charcoal. I use the Big Green Egg Lump charcoal and have never seen crap like you mention and I go through a bag a month. There's a website that ranks lump charcoal by user reviews where you can weed out the crap brands that have junk in the bags. Yeah, but no where with in a reasonable distance sells anything other then cheap stuff and I don't have anywhere to store enough to make the drive worthwhile. My house is heated with a woodstove so I always have a ton of hardwood on hand and like I said, unless I am in a huge hurry I just light and burn down a fire to get coals. One of my projects this summer is to replace my cheap grill with a nice campground style one so I can just start and cook in the same spot. Question for the group: I posted this in the smoking thread but didn't get much feedback. I have built a crude cold smoker in my yard and my test bacon is most of the way cured. I am looking for advice regarding the cold smoking process. Specifically about time and temp and how to deal with feeding it. I have ran a few fires through it and while I can get a nice thin blue smoke, every time I have to feed it the fire flares up and a ton of thick white smokes pours out for like 15-30m.
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Feb 15, 2014 02:36
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bunnielab posted:I have built a crude cold smoker in my yard and my test bacon is most of the way cured. You don't know the meaning of the term, "cold smoker". That will make sense in a day or so.
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Feb 15, 2014 03:13
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bunnielab posted:Question for the group: You want a white smoke. A cold smoker is not a low heat smoker. A cold smoke is a separate unit that you funnel smoke into. While the smoke travels, it cools, and does not raise the temperature in the cold smoker. Think of a still, you want the smoke cold when it reaches your meat, you don't want to try and keep a fire that is 100F or below.
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Feb 15, 2014 05:21
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:You want a white smoke. A cold smoker is not a low heat smoker. A cold smoke is a separate unit that you funnel smoke into. While the smoke travels, it cools, and does not raise the temperature in the cold smoker. Yeah, that is what I built, but I have never heard of wanting voluminous white smoke being desirable for any kind of smoking? Here is my ugly baby, now under about a foot of snow and ice. 
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Feb 15, 2014 06:19
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ShadowStalker posted:Quit buying cheap lump charcoal. I use the Big Green Egg Lump charcoal and have never seen crap like you mention and I go through a bag a month. There's a website that ranks lump charcoal by user reviews where you can weed out the crap brands that have junk in the bags. I HAVE found that poo poo in the BGE charcoal, 2 or 3 times actually. It's overpriced royal oak and I'll never buy it or cowboy charcoal again. Wicked Good charcoal is my go-to for grilling.
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Feb 15, 2014 18:14
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Tweek posted:You don't know the meaning of the term, "cold smoker". Tweek posted:Realize your smoke box is hard to reach due to recent snowstorms.
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Feb 16, 2014 06:59
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Add delicious smoke flavor to your squash and mushrooms.
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bunnielab posted:
Whenever I have to feed my smoker, I start up a batch of charcoal and wood chunks in my chimney starter and let it burn down a bit. Otherwise I run in to exactly that same problem. Also thick white smoke is the exact opposite of what you want (unless you somehow want your bacon to taste like a damned ashtray), you're spot on with the thin blue smoke.
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Feb 16, 2014 07:04
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I put this up in the 'General Questions' thread. Since no one answered it, I figure I'm A-OK, but I'm putting this out there in case law enforcement ever comes calling. I'm making Tjälknöl. I took an eye of round beef roast, put some salt and black pepper on it, trussed it, and froze it out doors. I've since de-trussed it, and placed it in a 190 degree oven, where it will sit, on a rack, for the next 8-10 hours. After that, it's going into a chilled brine for 4-5 hours before being sliced and eaten. Will this kill me? Would my death interest you?
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Feb 16, 2014 08:14
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Big Beef City posted:I put this up in the 'General Questions' thread. Seems like a really interesting method, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be safe since I doubt anything nasty has a real chance of getting a foothold during any of those stages. Let us know how it turns out, I'm really curious.
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Feb 16, 2014 10:05
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Big Beef City posted:I put this up in the 'General Questions' thread. Unless your meat was spoiled going into this process, you are beyond fine. Freezing it will kill virtually all the bacteria on it or parasites in it. The only thing freezing won't kill is spores. As far as the oven, meats are pasteurized after a scant few minutes at 140F. The surface will be sterilized after 1 second at 190F. A salt brine solution will desiccate anything that in defiance to the laws of physics made it through the process. All you're missing is smoke and an acid and you would have the whole hand of food preservers. This sounds very interesting; and as a good Swede, I feel I must try it. It is my project for tomorrow.
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Feb 16, 2014 11:18
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Safety Engineer posted:Whenever I have to feed my smoker, I start up a batch of charcoal and wood chunks in my chimney starter and let it burn down a bit. Otherwise I run in to exactly that same problem. Also thick white smoke is the exact opposite of what you want (unless you somehow want your bacon to taste like a damned ashtray), you're spot on with the thin blue smoke. Yeah, that is what I do with my WSM, but I was hoping to find a way to just toss split logs into this one. I was going to just use hickory out of my landlord's huge rear end pile. I am hoping when I redo the lid and door to the smoke box I can restrict the air inflow enough that if I cap the outflow before I open it up I can minimize or eliminate the flair up. hah, how long were you able to use that?
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Feb 16, 2014 16:21
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bunnielab posted:hah, how long were you able to use that? Long enough to add smoke to seven pieces of mushrooms. I had to keep digging it out to re-light it. Next time bigger air holes. I mean, it was effectively the type of smoker you would make out of a cardboard box, only made with snow instead of cardboard. A snowbox if you will. There's still plenty of snow, I should make a bigger one and put the food inside rather than on top.
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Feb 16, 2014 16:27
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Safety Engineer posted:Seems like a really interesting method, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be safe since I doubt anything nasty has a real chance of getting a foothold during any of those stages. Let us know how it turns out, I'm really curious. Just to follow up - it's excellent. Truly very good. I followed these two recipes, and took the advice to let it sit in a dry plastic bag for an extra day. I made a plate of thin sliced beef, sweet pickled peppers, olives, marinated mushrooms, cheese and bread for dinner for my wife and I tonight and it's excellent. Little horseradish on the side...oooh yea.
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Feb 18, 2014 00:39
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 Reporting in on this. So I did a little reading and a little thinking on how to make this the best I can. I got a nice eye roast and froze it in my deep freeze (a good -25F) for a solid 48 hours. I then thawed it completely, then REfroze it again in the deep freeze. I figure this will most accurately mimic the conditions of a piece of reindeer that is kept outside in a box during the long Scandinavian winter. I also will figure that this will allow ice crystals to grow and regrow in the meat and shred up any toughness that is there. I then S-V the meat at 140F for about 6 hours to attain equilibrium and then brine as prescribed. One final step that isn't included in the before recipes is I smoke the meat for about 30 minutes over the smallest fire I can manage. The result is superb. Superlative. It is tender and juicy and yet still with a pleasant tooth. Though there is incredible room for improvement. Next time I make this (and I will, as I will never buy deli roast beef again) I will slice the roast in half top-to-bottom, as to reduce the penetration depth of the brine; the outer 0.5" of the meat is perfect, the inside is untouched by brine. The aforementioned day-long rest will also help. Next, and most importantly, I think I will reduce the salinity of the brine and more finely grind the spices. That way, I can have the meat in the brine longer than the fairly short 5 hours. Not enough herb and spice made it deeply enough. Like reduce the salt:water by 60%. (granted, I haven't done the math on it, so that number may not be entirely accurate) Finally, the only changes I would make to the flavor is to maybe up the juniper and I think just teeny-tiny-est of grill sear will add just another layer. Other than that, I find this to be an awesome addition to my repertoire and an even greater addition to my culinary heritage.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:46
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holttho posted:
And on that day was born the Sous-Viking.
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Feb 23, 2014 14:46
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 Coppa, lomo, hickory smoked ham, fennel salami, all done through a class at http://www.pdxmeat.com/
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Mar 2, 2014 06:23
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This is my first time trying Charcuterie, and there seems to be a lot that can or has gone wrong that I might not be aware of. I might need some help. I followed Ruhlman's recipe in the OP, but since I was using a 1.5kg (3.3lbs) slab of pork belly, I practically halved the ingredients in the recipe. I also couldn't find any pink curing salt and had to resort to Morton's Tender Quick, using the recommended amounts (1 tablespoon for approximately 0.5kg of meat). Picture below was the result I got:  After checking again, there was a quite a bit of liquid in the packages and I'm kind of worried they'll develop into something that will kill me by the time the week's up. Is there anything I should do at this point?
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Mar 4, 2014 15:25
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Mchangin posted:This is my first time trying Charcuterie, and there seems to be a lot that can or has gone wrong that I might not be aware of. I might need some help. I followed Ruhlman's recipe in the OP, but since I was using a 1.5kg (3.3lbs) slab of pork belly, I practically halved the ingredients in the recipe. The liquid is good, leave it alone. Where do you live that you can't find pink salt? You can order it on Amazon or from sausagemaker.com.
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Mar 4, 2014 16:18
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I live in Singapore; If possible I wanted to get it locally because online purchases are pretty inconvenient for me at the moment, and I guess getting excited about making my own bacon got the better of me. But Prague Powder's practically unheard of, and despite going to the most stocked up supermarket I've seen in my entire life today I couldn't actually find it. Thanks for the info by the way, I can stop panicking now.
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Mar 4, 2014 16:59
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Also remember that many cultures still slow-cure meat with just regular salt, no sodium nitrate or nitrite at all. Even Ruhlman & Polcyn's Salumi doesn't call for pink salt in many of the recipes. If this is bacon and you'll be either smoking it or cooking in a low oven, you'll kill anything that the salt didn't anyway.
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Mar 4, 2014 17:11
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Yea, the liquid is A Good Thing; do not dump it out. Doubly so a good thing, actually. First, it acts with the salt already in the bag to created an even brine, rather than the uneven dry cure distribution. Secondly, the less water you have in your final product, the longer shelf life it will have. (if it's in the bag, it's not in the meat.) With bacon, the final water content isn't as critical, as it goes from brine to smoker to fridge/freezer. Things never have a chance to grow. But with dry cured meats (pancetta, guanciale, or any number of sausages) you need that water to come out otherwise it will provide water for bacterial growth. That water that is lost is part of what is called 'water activity', which is essentially the water that is not bound up with molecules or free ions (such as salt ions). If the water is free from this bondage, it is usable by things that need water to grow: fungi and bacteria. If you reduce the amount of active water, there isn't anything for the bugs to drink, (or more accurately, maintain their cellular processes) and they shrivel up and die. Or at least, are unable to reproduce to any number that could possibly harm you. This is precisely what making cured foods and jams/jellies is all about. Since both salt and sugar break down on the molecular level when in aqueous solution, rather than just stay whole but suspended in the liquid, they gobble up all the water so nothing else can use it. But you can use it only because you eat so little of it compared to your body weight. If you ate a lot of it, you would die just like them. Things like smoking, acid-pickling, and fermenting work similarly, but slightly differently. As for the pink salt, you definitely don't need it, but it does have helpful effects and does impart some of the distinctive cured-food flavor and pleasant reddish color. (Though the color is a chemical reaction with hemoglobin, not the pink dye they put in it. The dye is just so you never mistake it as table salt) Regular pink salt (curing salt #1) has sodium nitrite in it which, among other things, kill botulism spores. Long term pink salt (curing salt #2) has sodium nitrate in it as well. Nitrates break down over time and turn into nitrites, giving you an extended protection for things that need to cure for extended times. Yes, both nitrates and nitrites have gotten bad press, some unjustly and some justly; but typically have only caused Bad Things when cooked to extreme high temperatures and then consumed copiously. As with all things, especially cured foods, moderation is key. Eat it to enjoy the flavor, not to derive sustenance and you will never have a problem with nitrate/nitrite. If you eat a pound of bacon every day because you're goonish beyond societal redemption, yes, nitrates are bad for you.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:36
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I like turtles posted:
I forgot to comment on this, but those look incredible. Especially that coppa. Love it when it is nice and fatty like that. Too often does that get trimmed away.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:42
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I, too, forgot to say how awesome all that salumi looks. I just got a food slicer finally, and I'm gonna hang up a couple of filetti tonight. They've been curing according to the recipe in Salumi for the past three days. Just gotta make sure I remember to grab cheesecloth after work today. Ruhlman never suggests it, but I've seen it a bunch on various charcuterie blogs and I figure anything that slows the drying process and keeps the outer layer from being so hard and dry is a good thing.
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Mar 6, 2014 12:29
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I usually just use a damp paper towel draped lightly. Works nicely.
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Mar 9, 2014 10:37
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These two locally-sourced pork tenderloins: Are now filetti hanging in my basement:  Look at those happy sleeping babies, all swaddled up! I used the Rulhman & Polcyn recipe from Salumi. Toasted cracked pepper and fennel, garlic. Rubbed on and then cured in the fridge for 4 days. Took em out, rinsed them off, rubbed in some white wine, and then coated them with more pepper and fennel, this time finely ground. They'll hang for the next three weeks.
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Mar 9, 2014 20:15
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I've done the Ruhlman filleto cure, it's kinda poo poo tbh. I'd just do the black pepper dusting and smoke it for a few hours before hanging.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:16
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That's unfortunate. Well, we'll just have to see I guess. I'm not gonna smoke these but I might next time.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:20
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It may have been due to the fact that the recipe in the book is wrong. It calls for like 160g of salt, or 5% by weight, but if you compared the salt he suggested with the weight of the tenders he used, he was closer to 10%. I did 5% for my tenders for 48hrs, and they could have used a bit more salt. Also, the fennel was a bit too strong, I would have added some red pepper flakes to the initial cure, and possibly some sugar or molasses.
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Mar 9, 2014 23:36
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Can use Frozen pork belly for bacon or frozen duck breasts for prosciutto?
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Mar 14, 2014 01:30
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Frozen pork belly or duck are just duck and pork belly, but frozen. So yes.
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Mar 14, 2014 11:19
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Martello posted:Frozen pork belly or duck are just duck and pork belly, but frozen. Just thaw them out like any meat and then use?
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Mar 14, 2014 11:28
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goodness posted:Just thaw them out like any meat and then use? Yup. I pretty much always freeze whatever meat I use for salumi because I tend to buy a number of cuts at the same time from my local butcher. I might start one that day but more likely I buy during the week and freeze until the weekend.
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Mar 14, 2014 11:39
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Thanks for the advice a couple weeks ago; after eating a couple of slices I can gladly say this first batch was a huge success. 
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Mar 16, 2014 15:15
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I have a huge belly sitting in my freezer right now. I'm trying to decide what to do with it. I've done bacon once, and pancetta tesa twice, so I want to try something different. I'm thinking rillettes. I'll probably cut the belly in half and make one half into bacon, then after that's done use the bacon and the uncured half to make the rillettes. Any other ideas? I'm also considering using some of it to just braise or grill.
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Mar 16, 2014 16:10
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Oh and my next big project is going to be a deer leg prosciutto. I probably shouldn't even be trying it but I can't resist. I have a deer leg and I must cure it.
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Mar 16, 2014 17:06
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