Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

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vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Kro-Bar posted:

Got this one from my normally apolitical mom today.

It'x really quite amazing that anyone can believe those gun ownership stats are accurate for anywhere outside the developed world.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 17:45

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# ? May 16, 2024 11:48

CowHammer: Feb 18, 2013

Kro-Bar posted:

Got this one from my normally apolitical mom today.

I love that they put the cutoff for the first homicide tier at 0-5 considering the US is sitting at 4.7, around the same level as Yemen, but Germany (at 0.8, 1/6 of US's) and Japan (0.3, 1/16 of US's) are somehow in the same tier.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 17:47

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

I especially like how the included Greenland in there. It has a population of 56,000 so 1 homicide or more is going to make it look very bad according to their measure.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 17:51

Thomas13206: Jun 18, 2013

DeusExMachinima posted:

You could say the same thing about involving the state if a racist calls the cops to kick a black kid out of their home.

So long as they're on the business' property, right? Glad we found the line you're willing to stop at when defending civil rights.

You may notice quite a few laws differ regarding operation of a public business and a private household.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 18:04

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

I like how that graph uses a measurement that makes it look like the US's homicide rate isn't over 4x that of the rest of the first world average.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 18:07

Mo_Steel: Mar 7, 2008; Let's Clock Into The Sunset Together; Fun Shoe

Kro-Bar posted:

Got this one from my normally apolitical mom today.

Apparently this came from Breitbart. I'm sure staring at two graphs of raw data and not controlling any other variables makes for a meaningful study on gun violence on the global scale. :eng99:

I'm also pretty entertained that Google Image Searching that image hits this article as a first result:

quote:

The study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, examines the National Rifle Association�s (NRA) claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to increased gun violence. It is the largest study conducted to date into the correlation between gun ownership and firearms violence, and the first to comprehensively examine the issue since the tragic shooting last December of 20 children and 7 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

The study, covering 30 years (1981-2010) in all 50 states, found a �robust correlation� between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level, even when controlling for factors typically associated with homicides. For each 1 percentage point increase in the prevalence of gun ownership, the state firearm homicide rate increases by 0.9 percent, the authors found.

I don't need to tell you again about it, search your own image for the study that tells you about it for me.

Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Feb 26, 2014

# ? Feb 26, 2014 18:10

Tempest_56: Mar 14, 2009

Kro-Bar posted:

Got this one from my normally apolitical mom today.

I rather like that places such as Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan are shown on this as fairly safe places. They're what I totally think of when it comes to countries without significant gun violence. But gently caress Greenland, it's a deathtrap. :allears:

# ? Feb 26, 2014 18:25

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

CB_Tube_Knight posted:

I like how angry people seem to get when you try to simply add diversity to things.

"We don't want females with their vagainas all over our video games!"

"We don't need more blacks in colleges!"

"Gays shouldn't be shopping where me and my straight kids shop!"

What gets me about Hollywood is they will actively take stories that are cultural and about a certain group and just make everyone white, toss one black guy in for good measure and go with it.

Yeah I had a similar reaction from people (and I mean men) when I posted a thing about maybe people should stop telling rape jokes. Of the 7 people involved in that discussion there were 2 women that agreed with that and I was the only guy that agreed with the notion as well the rest (including the guy who would go on to call my friend a monkey) were set against it for reasons varying from "it limits my rights," to something about humor is subjective so you can't declare rape jokes unfunny to one reasonable thing about denying rape victims the healing power of humor, though the fact most rape jokes aren't said for those purposes but to demean people didn't seem to matter.

But so as promised some highlights from that thread, these are all going to be from the racist guy

Some Racist rear end in a top hat posted:

Imagine the outrage if they they came with WET (white entertainment television) or a game called White College Football, as they did with Black College Football

So your implying that because people, who I have no relation with have punished me and my future generations by actions that they committed, long before I was born? That is racist bullshit. I don't care about their being things like "black" channels or whatever, but white people should be allowed to have those things as well without having to get the fall out. I should not suffer for actions I did not commit. Its racism, maybe racism with the intent of equalizing society, but it is racism nonetheless

Thats ludicrous, If you want to adjust how people are benefited via things like affirmative action and the such, then do so based on the society in which on was raised. I was raised in a bad neighborhood, with horrible school, yet I don't get the benefits of being considered an inner city youth literally because of the color of my skin. The color of my skin has been detrimental in society because I dont have an extra quote possibility to get taken into account, I am not giving extra points on certain city tests, etc.

Begin white has put me in many lesser standings in many situations in this society, Don't be the ignorant fool that you seem to be by thinking you are the only one who gets prejudiced again. You just sound like the "woe is me" type. Open your eyes to the grand scheme while still looking at the individual as equally as you can.

Affirmative action is an inherently racist action. To favor one race over another racist. It's bullshit. If you wanted to adjust standings depending on how and where one was brought up, thats one thing, but by making it race specific, you enter the realm of racism. So, read a book before you argue for the hand outs that are given to you illogically

After this my friend who had been arguing with him got angry and told him to shut the gently caress up and his response

Some Racist rear end in a top hat continued posted:

Look at the monkey getting wild in his cage haha. If you are going to turn this conversation into a shouting contest, clearly you never really evolved from our prime-ape ancestor. I am sorry to disappoint you, you ignorant slave to society, but black people shoot at white people too. You are turning this conversation into a race war, when it was a discussion about true equality. Clearly though, you have no level of intellect to grow and become better then you are, which is an un-evolved, uncultured human. In other words, you are indeed, acting like a monkey. You think people of all races arent prejudiced against? You're an idiot and belong in a zoo. Now go run along with your uneducated comments. Im sure a Mcdonalds will hire you somewhere.

What? Do you think your the only one who is prejudiced against? Keep playing the violin and feeling sorry for yourself. It will get you no where in life. And ofcourse, you idiocy assumes anything I say has to do with racial comments. I explained, your a monkey, because your unevolved and your a slave to society, but I am sure in your lack of sophistication will assume it means whatever you want it to mean. Fool.

After that last comment he posted a picture of Obama with the words Deal With it as a caption. I blocked him on facebook right after this cause I don't need no shithead like that commenting on facebook. He's obviously trolling at points but still I think enough that he's a loving racist.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 18:41

LeJackal: Apr 5, 2011

Mo_Steel posted:

Apparently this came from Breitbart. I'm sure staring at two graphs of raw data and not controlling any other variables makes for a meaningful study on gun violence on the global scale.

Well it claims to show homicide in general, not violence overall, or the even narrower subset of gun violence. Its pretty much a useless image because its attempting to demonstrate causality that doesn't exist. Homicide is more closely linked to socioeconomic factors than the regulatory control of firearm ownership, but that is a complex relationship that is a lot more difficult to discuss than LOLguns. Most people find it easier to say and believe 'more/less guns will solve the crime problem!' instead.

Mo_Steel posted:

I'm also pretty entertained that Google Image Searching that image hits this article as a first result:

"" posted:
The study, covering 30 years (1981-2010) in all 50 states, found a �robust correlation� between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level..

I don't need to tell you again about it, search your own image for the study that tells you about it for me.

Yeah, and the more SUVs you have on the road, the higher the rates of SUV-involved auto accidents. Tautologies are fun.
If only good government policy could be formulated using misplaced causation, tautologies, and Just World fallacies.

LeJackal fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Feb 26, 2014

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:05

Knight: Dec 23, 2000; SPACE-A-HOLIC; Taco Defender

Someone was using their work email to spread this... whatever this is.

quote:

Beloved Ones, you are all wondering about the "fake snow" that has been falling across the U.S. It lays on the ground without creating puddles for long periods of time, and if you make a snowball with your hands, they feel greasy afterwards. If you make a hard snowball and place it over a flame, you will wait anywhere from 12 seconds to three minutes before you see anything reminding you of a drop of water melting. Do this same test with the frost from your freezer and you will see the dramatic difference.

Yes, it is "freaky," as some of you have noticed. It contains elements not seen in snow before, although your rain has contained certain components similar to what you now observe in the snow. Fortunately, all across the world, people are beginning to notice the strange snow. It has caught the attention of home scientists as well as professional researchers. We hope that the results will be widely published in coming weeks.

This is the last-ditch effort of the silent World government - the one which has wielded the real power for many generations. They are desperate, and they are showing their true intentions by "pulling out all the stops." This is designed to make you feel overwhelmed, filled with fear and dread at the power of unknown and unnamed persons to destroy you and your environment. You are supposed to blame your elected officials, of course, since they are the ones who supposedly control these things.

You see, it is a massive attempt to drive everyone into a state of fear, mistrust, and eventually, a sense of hopelessness. Then the physical symptoms are supposed to appear, sending everyone running to their doctors to get medication for the mysterious illnesses which are intended to sicken large numbers of people. A pharmaceutical "treatment" or "cure" will then be found for the maladies, providing billions of dollars in profits to drug companies and their representatives, while the guinea pig population succumbs to illness and despair.

This is the gruesome picture which was planned for Earth's less powerful Beings. Those in power believed they could protect themselves, of course, while everyone else fades away. They have provided themselves with underground shelters, relatively unadulterated water supplies, and the best medical care. Of course this is silly - to think they could poison the Earth and remain unscathed themselves. They also needed backup in case they should need to escape - and so they have developed extensive space programs and space ships to carry them to bases on the moon and several other planets.

With the trillions of dollars which went missing during the Iraq War and the massive profits gleaned from previous wars and manufactured diseases, there was a nearly unlimited taxpayer-financed secret space science and technology boom, completely hidden from the public eye. It was also unknown to most of the elected representatives in Congress, except for a few carefully placed operatives, who made sure the information was kept classified, especially when it affected the well-being of the masses.

We tell you these things now not to frighten you, but to spur you on to greater efforts to take back your own destiny and that of your beloved Mother Earth by using the most powerful tool in the Universe, Love. Take this information we have given you to awaken your hearts, to stir in you the memory of freedom and joy which you will recapture with your own hands and hearts and minds. This time, you will not have to fight for your freedom - just the opposite. We have laid the groundwork for you to succeed with the power of Creation.

It is your own creative powers which will carry the day - your ability to create the energy forms which will defeat Darkness in all its expressions, whether it be disease, an oppressive political and social system, or supposed military might. Nothing can stop the wave of movement toward Light which has overtaken the planet now. It has been decreed by Prime Creator that Earth will not be destroyed ever again, and that humankind will be victorious over the Darkness which has plagued them for thousands of years. You are being given help from On High, but you are not being controlled or dictated to.

You, Beloved Ones, decreed this monumental Shift, and made it possible by coming here, lifetime after lifetime, to hold the Light for your fellow creatures, valiantly returning even against impossible odds because of your belief in the goodness and joy which could be restored to dear Mother Earth. And so it shall be.

The time of Great Change has indeed arrived. There are powerful Families of Light on the planet who have shared your vision of Peace, Harmony and Endless Love. They have given of their time, energy and resources to make possible the beginning of the first wave of Prosperity Funds. You will be surprised to find that help comes from the most unexpected sources when you are on your path, raising your vibration to experience the essence of Pure Love. Do not falter, do not lose Faith, Beloved Ones. Your time has come.

The Dark Ones had to be neutralized before your material blessings could be dispersed to you. It would have simply increased the conflicts and secret control over the military and financial resources on the planet, had they not been identified, maneuvered into position and entrapped by the sting operation which was a prime part of the revaluation of currency. It has been a masterful plan, thoroughly thought out and patiently executed, step by step. The details and remarkable success of this plan will be revealed to you very soon. Of course, we could not reveal how and why each step was being developed and carried through. Obviously, one does not publicize the elements of a sting operation or it would not work.

Those of you who are experiencing the lifting of the Veil have sensed the movement of something great, and have felt the awakening of your memories of why you are here. You may not have known the specifics of what is unfolding or how it will unfold, but you feel a resonance with our words, as we have taken you step by step through the process of lifting your vibrations, preparing yourselves for Ascension and beyond. This was our intention - to create a step by step, day by day guide for you, so that you could feel our presence and know that your reawakening is real, that the things you see happening around you are real, and that the injustices you experienced were indeed the result of a Dark masterplan to take over and control the planet.

Those who scoff and call this a "conspiracy theory" as an excuse for ignoring the warning signals are simply playing into the hands of those who created the Darkness. It is not an intelligent approach to ignore evidence that has been carefully gathered and presented. Neither is it intelligent to simply believe something because it has been said many times. You are all going through a period of investigation and exploration. You must search beyond the preliminary presentations to do your own investigating.

There has been a very good example of this need in your current experience. The snow is falling in historic amounts in the East of the U.S. while the West is experiencing historic drought. "Chem" (chemical) trails have filled the skies in both places, crisscrossing the sky in checkerboard patterns. You are told they are only the vapor from jet planes in their regular flights. If you believe this, you have been completely hoodwinked. It is easy enough for anyone who cares to question this to discover that flight paths are carefully monitored and constructed in such a way that airplanes would never criss-cross one another at similar altitudes. Your air traffic control would not permit such traffic patterns on the part of commercial jets.

You have been told officially told that HAARP is indeed a weather monitoring system, and that clouds can be seeded to produce rain. If this is true, why have they permitted the devastating drought to continue? Why is there no official explanation for the lack of positive results when there are obviously constant trails in the skies across the entire country? Would it not be an obvious conclusion, using only the facts, that the immediate result of the chem trails is indeed what we see immediately following their appearance? This would require, of course, that you be willing to open your mind to the possibility that there is indeed a group in power who are engineering the very droughts and floods you see happening around the world.

You protest, "But that doesn't make sense! Why would anyone want to destroy the crops (in the West) and bring the greatest business centers on Earth to a standstill?" Why indeed? You have heard the term, "Follow the money." Now, do it. Who would benefit from the failure of the crops that are being currently grown, while simultaneously rescuing their businesses from the investigations and prosecutions which are now underway? The producers of GMO technology and its accompanying profitable factory farm procedures. Billions of dollars are at stake. People are awakening to the truth that their food supply is dangerous and toxic to humanity, and that it is being controlled by a few very powerful corporations.

Now, in addition to following the money, you must also follow the legislation being written and passed in governments around the world. GMO crops have been banned in large areas across the world, and action is being taken in small communities across the U.S., in the absence of Congressional action. The market for these ungodly creations has been shrinking. Does it seem logical to investigate why the areas with the greatest vulnerability to being taken over by these practices are the very ones being manipulated in this latest "environmental disaster?"

We recommend that you watch the movie, "Thrive" if you wish to have a beginner's background for understanding what is happening on your dear planet this week, this month, this year. It has been a struggle between Light and Dark. You have been at the center of this struggle. How can you remain asleep while the destiny of the entire population - human, flora and fauna - of your entire planet is being decided?

You are fortunate, Dear Ones, to have the assistance of The Company of Heaven in this struggle. By that, we mean the entire group of Ascended Masters, Archangels, and incarnated Masters here to help you. In addition to those who have dedicated their eternal Light to the success of this project, you are also being assisted by the great Legions of Star Brothers and Sisters, under the loving eyes of the Ashtar Command. All have come to assist, whether by bringing Light or by helping with the neutralization of the technologies of the Dark Ones, or by assisting in your physical and mental healing.

All the Multiverse has combined energies during this period of Ascension. You are being lifted, literally, into a higher dimension, but it is not something that can be done to you or for you. You, the "boots on the ground," are the crucial component in the success of this mission. Without your presence there in human bodies, receiving the Light and transmitting it to Mother Earth and all her creatures, the evolution of your beloved planet would not occur. We are sending Love, endless and pure. You must receive it and use it to lift yourselves and each other. This is your mission and your promise.

Long ago, you all joined with us and with Sananda and Sanat Kumara and the others from Venus to accomplish this honorable and ambitious mission. It reaches far beyond what you might have surmised. It is not just a mission to defeat evil and reclaim Planet Earth. It was also planned as a laboratory for reclaiming and restoring all Beings to the Light of God. This included those Dark Ones who have created the terrible problems you experience now. It was not our mission to destroy or kill the perpetrators who caused the suffering, across Earth and in other quarters of the lower dimensional worlds. It has always been our mission to rescue and restore the Dark Ones, who were also our beloved children, the creation of our hearts.

You have been the team of Lightworkers who were on the front lines of this endeavor, incarnating among the Dark Ones, even offering your bodies as a harboring place for the Reptilians whose DNA was restored by the experience of living in a loving human body. This you are familiar with this program, now successfully completed, which was described and explained to you during August of 2013 in our messages and radio shows. That was just the beginning.

You are now involved in another such program - the Sting Operation which was designed to entice and capture the most greedy and powerful of the Dark Hats. You offered to invest your hard-earned money, your patience and your Faith to act as the decoys who would take part in the currency revaluation, with the promise of great wealth to be shared. It could not have been successfully completed without your participation in great numbers. You defied popular wisdom and financial "common sense" to take part in this project, which was called illogical, a scam, and worse. And so you created the scene, built the props and laid the traps, along with our beloved and much-maligned Tony TNT, in order to attract the bears to the honey, as you might call it.

It has been successful beyond expectation. Those who would greedily steal your blessings and use it to increase their power over you have been rounded up and will be charged and prosecuted for their crimes. The same is being done with the perpetrators of the current "weather problems". They are a consortium of conspirators who hoped to tighten their grip on the entire population by bringing you to your knees, through starvation, poverty and illness. You have assisted every step of the way, including your lively discussions and debate on the internet.

Now, our Beloved Children, congratulate each other in Love and Compassion. Send great waves of Love to those who have been pulled down into low vibrational states, which they then joined willingly, in the state of free will. Put your shoulders to the wheel together, in joy and triumph, as we complete the final phase of this magnificent endeavor - the lifting out of despair and deprivation of the entire human race, and the recognition of all the creatures of the air, land and sea as your beloved Brothers and Sisters of the Light.

We embrace you with Joy, we revel in your great triumph, and we Love you beyond words. Together, we are victorious in the power of our Love.

We are your Mother/Father God, together with all the Company of Heaven, in service to Prime Creator, who is the Creator of All.

Via Kathryn E. May, February 15, 2014, 11 am, EST.

I had to look up several of these terms to make sure it wasn't an ARG, but mostly was just amused how often it describes how powerful and far-reaching the conspiracy is while simultaneously reassuring the audience that they don't need to do anything because the defeat of the conspiracy is a foregone conclusion.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:06

Swan Oat: Oct 9, 2012; I was selected for my skill.

quote:

Black College Football

Are HBCUs even included in the NCAA Football video games?

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:07

Nyarai: Jul 19, 2012; Jenn here.

Knight posted:

Someone was using their work email to spread this... whatever this is.
I had to look up several of these terms to make sure it wasn't an ARG, but mostly was just amused how often it describes how powerful and far-reaching the conspiracy is while simultaneously reassuring the audience that they don't need to do anything because the defeat of the conspiracy is a foregone conclusion.

Here's a rebuttal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmT3wcu8Ed0

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:16

Peanut3141: Oct 30, 2009

LeJackal posted:

Yeah, and the more SUVs you have on the road, the higher the rates of SUV-involved auto accidents. Tautologies are fun.
If only good government policy could be formulated using misplaced causation, tautologies, and Just World fallacies.

Your poor tautology analogy demonstrates that you don't know what one is. It's throughly possible that SUVs are so much safer to drive that their accident total would decline if they came to dominate the roads and drive out more dangerous models.

Note: I do not hold this to be true for SUVs, but it could easily happen as self driving cars take over the roadways.

Peanut3141 fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Feb 26, 2014

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:19

Guilty Spork: Feb 26, 2011; Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

KomradeX posted:

Yeah I had a similar reaction from people (and I mean men) when I posted a thing about maybe people should stop telling rape jokes. Of the 7 people involved in that discussion there were 2 women that agreed with that and I was the only guy that agreed with the notion as well the rest (including the guy who would go on to call my friend a monkey) were set against it for reasons varying from "it limits my rights," to something about humor is subjective so you can't declare rape jokes unfunny to one reasonable thing about denying rape victims the healing power of humor, though the fact most rape jokes aren't said for those purposes but to demean people didn't seem to matter.

But so as promised some highlights from that thread, these are all going to be from the racist guy

After this my friend who had been arguing with him got angry and told him to shut the gently caress up and his response

After that last comment he posted a picture of Obama with the words Deal With it as a caption. I blocked him on facebook right after this cause I don't need no shithead like that commenting on facebook. He's obviously trolling at points but still I think enough that he's a loving racist.

It's been said a zillion times but it bears repeating: If you want a "White Entertainment Television" channel, for all intents and purposes you've got hundreds already. The entertainment industry skews towards white people by a hefty margin, and it's not weird that some black people might try to carve out an exception to the overwhelming whiteness of media.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:22

pig slut lisa: Mar 5, 2012; irl is good

Swan Oat posted:

Are HBCUs even included in the NCAA Football video games?

They were in NCAA Football 2005, but for some reason EA decided to take out all the 1-AA schools a couple years later.

(along with a bunch of other good features, while simultaneously not fixing the persistent gameplay issues :arghfist:

)

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:24

Gygaxian: May 29, 2013

So quick question; I don't normally post pictures at all, so how would I get my conversation with the "taxation is theft" guy onto here? I've anomynized it with social fixer, but all I normally use for posting photos on the net is photobucket, so what should I do to get the conversation here? Just print screen, cut out the unnecessary parts, and post it on photobucket (which is linked to my facebook), then post it here?

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:36

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Use imgur.com or lpix.org

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:41

FuzzySkinner: May 23, 2012

Swan Oat posted:

Are HBCUs even included in the NCAA Football video games?

No.

They were included in past versions though. (PS2)

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:43

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

Just in case..

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/studentid.asp

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:46

MisterBadIdea: Oct 9, 2012; Anything?

The most succinct rebuttal to the taxation-as-theft argument I've ever heard is this: 1) The concept of theft is based on the principle of property rights, but 2) rights are a meaningless concept if not protected by a government, which 3) cannot exist without taxes to support it. Ergo, your property rights cannot exist without taxation, meaning that taxation is not a violation of your rights but a necessary condition of them.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:51

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Guilty Spork posted:

It's been said a zillion times but it bears repeating: If you want a "White Entertainment Television" channel, for all intents and purposes you've got hundreds already. The entertainment industry skews towards white people by a hefty margin, and it's not weird that some black people might try to carve out an exception to the overwhelming whiteness of media.

I know this but it doesn't seem to matter he's also sine the why no white history month bullshit. He also acted like I was a exist for stressing that Affirmative Action actually benefits white women the most just another his whole affirmative action is racial in nature is bullshit.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 19:52

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

MisterBadIdea posted:

The most succinct rebuttal to the taxation-as-theft argument I've ever heard is this: 1) The concept of theft is based on the principle of property rights, but 2) rights are a meaningless concept if not protected by a government, which 3) cannot exist without taxes to support it. Ergo, your property rights cannot exist without taxation, meaning that taxation is not a violation of your rights but a necessary condition of them.

Rights are endowed by the creator and governments are formed only to protect them. I just need my ~~adolescent male power fantasy~~ gun to protect me from the government

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:03

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

MisterBadIdea posted:

The most succinct rebuttal to the taxation-as-theft argument I've ever heard is this: 1) The concept of theft is based on the principle of property rights, but 2) rights are a meaningless concept if not protected by a government, which 3) cannot exist without taxes to support it. Ergo, your property rights cannot exist without taxation, meaning that taxation is not a violation of your rights but a necessary condition of them.

Until WWI, the biggest source of U.S. government revenue was tariffs. Which, while they're certainly tax-like, aren't really the thing that libertarians tend to get as huffy about.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:07

Mo_Steel: Mar 7, 2008; Let's Clock Into The Sunset Together; Fun Shoe

LeJackal posted:

Well it claims to show homicide in general, not violence overall, or the even narrower subset of gun violence. Its pretty much a useless image because its attempting to demonstrate causality that doesn't exist. Homicide is more closely linked to socioeconomic factors than the regulatory control of firearm ownership, but that is a complex relationship that is a lot more difficult to discuss than LOLguns. Most people find it easier to say and believe 'more/less guns will solve the crime problem!' instead.

Yeah, and the more SUVs you have on the road, the higher the rates of SUV-involved auto accidents. Tautologies are fun.
If only good government policy could be formulated using misplaced causation, tautologies, and Just World fallacies.

It's not at all a tautology that increased firearms ownership is strongly correlated with increased gun homicides(see also: the NRAs apparent claims to the contrary in the context giving paragraph that you deliberately removed when quoting me).

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:16

Gygaxian: May 29, 2013

Okay, so here's the conversation so far. The guy in yellow (whose name keeps changing because he keeps posting something new and I have to re-anyomize to keep up with) is my main "debate" opponent. He's an old friend of mine from high school (to be fair, we're only a few years out of high school). Relevant point: it was a "philosophical" charter school, and a couple of the teachers basically taught a bizarre form of moralistic libertarianism. No, I don't know how that works.

There's a bit at the end where he asks for help from one of the teachers, but I didn't feel like including it. Also, if the images are too large, please let me know how to make them smaller.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:16

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

Just like you pay a fee to the power company for your electricity, taxes are the fee you pay to the government for society.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:18

Gygaxian: May 29, 2013

duz posted:

Just like you pay a fee to the power company for your electricity, taxes are the fee you pay to the government for society.

B-but MAH CONSENT! Seriously though, I pointed out that most people consent to taxes as a necessary thing. My friend didn't care.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:33

MisterBadIdea: Oct 9, 2012; Anything?

Ron Jeremy posted:

Rights are endowed by the creator and governments are formed only to protect them.

If someone were to actually say this, I wouldn't disagree and I don't think it contradicts the argument.

quote:

Just like you pay a fee to the power company for your electricity, taxes are the fee you pay to the government for society.

Now this one, I'm not sure would be convincing, because libertarians argue they're not allowed to disconnect themselves from society the same way they can disconnect their power.

quote:

Until WWI, the biggest source of U.S. government revenue was tariffs. Which, while they're certainly tax-like, aren't really the thing that libertarians tend to get as huffy about.

Hrm, interesting. Could the government, or any government, conceivably have survived on tariffs alone?

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:36

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

MisterBadIdea posted:

Hrm, interesting. Could the government, or any government, conceivably have survived on tariffs alone?

Probably not alone alone. There were scattered temporary income taxes as far back as, what, 1820? Sometimes the government needs cash in a crisis, and tariffs alone aren't going to get it, particularly before the adoption of fiat money. But there are countries out there today without an income tax, mostly small tax havens (perhaps ironically) or petrostates.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:43

PUGGERNAUT: Nov 14, 2013; I AM INCREDIBLY BORING AND SHOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT FOOD IN THE POLITICS THREAD

Why do middle aged family members always insist on tagging everyone they know in unrelated pictures/statuses

I got a notification and thought someone wanted to talk to me

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:44

Redeye Flight: Mar 26, 2010; God, I'm so tired. What the hell did I post last night?

PUGGERNAUT posted:

Why do middle aged family members always insist on tagging everyone they know in unrelated pictures/statuses

I got a notification and thought someone wanted to talk to me

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:47

CowHammer: Feb 18, 2013

MisterBadIdea posted:

Hrm, interesting. Could the government, or any government, conceivably have survived on tariffs alone?

Not the US government, at least not in its current form. Total US exports of goods in 2013 were ~$1.5 trillion and imports were ~$2.3 trillion. Total federal government revenue was 2.5 trillion, which means we would need absurd tariff rates to come anywhere close to our current revenue.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:51

Dr. Arbitrary: Mar 15, 2006; Bleak Gremlin

In Libertarian fantasy land, if you're born into a family that rents an apartment and your parents die, would you be entitled to live rent free in that apartment in perpetuity because you never signed a rental agreement and they can't evict you without initiating force?

# ? Feb 26, 2014 20:55

peak debt: Mar 11, 2001; b& :(; Nap Ghost

Tariffs also discourage international trade which leads to mercantilism which leads to people having no empathy towards citizens of other nations, gladly agreeing into throwing their sons into the meat grinder for whatever stupid war might seem like a good idea at the time.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:00

Strudel Man: May 19, 2003; ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

I'm skeptical of the claim that mercantilism reduces empathy for citizens of other nations. Also, that said empathy has any meaningful effect on the willingness of people to serve in the military when drafted.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:01

ProperGanderPusher: Jan 13, 2012

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

In Libertarian fantasy land, if you're born into a family that rents an apartment and your parents die, would you be entitled to live rent free in that apartment in perpetuity because you never signed a rental agreement and they can't evict you without initiating force?

What are you doing living in an apartment like some limp-wristed city-boy in the first place? Real Americans own their own land and grow their own food.

On that same note, property rights are absolute. The land you are on belongs to them, therefore they have the right to do whatever the gently caress they want on it, whether or not you sign a contract.

I used to strongly believe both of these assertions. :eng99:

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:26

Jazu: Jan 1, 2006; Looking for some URANIUM? CLICK HERE

Centripetal Horse posted:

"Taxation is theft."

"Capital punishment is murder."

"Land ownership is imprisonment."

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:30

Big Hubris: Mar 8, 2011

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

In Libertarian fantasy land, if you're born into a family that rents an apartment and your parents die, would you be entitled to live rent free in that apartment in perpetuity because you never signed a rental agreement and they can't evict you without initiating force?

Libertarians don't believe in private murder. Coercion and Force are codewords they use to display their antipathy for Democracy and the Rule of Law.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:32

E-Tank: Aug 4, 2011

Mo_Steel posted:

It's not at all a tautology that increased firearms ownership is strongly correlated with increased gun homicides(see also: the NRAs apparent claims to the contrary in the context giving paragraph that you deliberately removed when quoting me).

Remember, sometimes the red text is there for a reason, LeJackel has this habit of believing that the only way to keep us men ~~afraid~~ respectful to women is to ensure every single female is armed to the teeth and willing to shoot our balls off.

Instead of...you know, ending rape culture and fighting against misogyny. That'd require actual effort.

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:37

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# ? May 16, 2024 11:48

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

duz posted:

Just like you pay a fee to the power company for your electricity, taxes are the fee you pay to the government for society.

That just opens the gate to "fine, I'll generate my own society :smug:

# ? Feb 26, 2014 21:42

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Got a crazy forwarded political email from your family? Post them here.

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