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a pipe smoking dog posted:Should you put a spread tech councillor in a high or a low tech province? I've always been vague on that. Low. Councillors increase the rate at which tech spreads into a province. At least, that has been my understanding.
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Feb 26, 2014 23:55
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Low. Councillors increase the rate at which tech spreads into a province. Spymaster pulls tech OUT of a province and into your capital as if it was neighboring it. Other councillors pull tech INTO the province they are stationed to, from all available sources of tech spread. The ideal strategy is to have your spymaster in a hightech city at all times he is not needed for  and your councillors in your capital at first, then a county bordering both capital and also as many of your other provinces as possible (once your capital is roughly on par with the hightech city).
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Feb 27, 2014 00:21
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fool_of_sound posted:If I were asked to come up with a new system for random revolts, I'd probably have a revolt start off as a nasty province modifier rather than troops (something like -50% income, -50% levies), and have it kick off an event chain against the province owner (probably a different event chain for each of angry peasant, cultural, religious, heretic, and nationalist revolts), that they could respond to based on attributes and traits to try to contain or put down the rebellion. Responding well could reduce the penalties or remove them entirely, while responding badly could worse them or actually kick off a full revolt with troops. Also a benefit to having king vassals - they'll take care of revolts in their territory (though they can sometimes react a little slow).
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Feb 27, 2014 01:12
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Excelzior posted:Spymaster pulls tech OUT of a province and into your capital as if it was neighboring it. Here's the giant essay I wrote on Technology Spread for a buddy of mine who emailed me about it; I'm pretty sure all of this is accurate. *** Technology is DISCOVERED by spending your tech points in the technology menu with the button that looks like little gears. Your Court - your advisors - have no impact on this whatsoever. You get technology points to spend in the following ways: --1) You earn a (small) number of points per month based on your stats. You get Military Tech Points based on your character's Martial+Learning scores; Economic from Stewardship+Learning; Cultural from Diplomacy+Learning. You get 0.04 points per month per stat point (so that a dude with Martial 8 and Learning 8 gets 16*0.04, or 0.64 military points per month). Kings get a +20% bonus to this growth; Emperors get a +40% bonus. Counts don't develop Tech Points because Counts suck, I guess. Note that this is based off of your character's stats - your advisors' stats and your spouse's stats have no impact whatsoever. --2) You can construct buildings in vassal holdings to boost your point production; every Monastic School you build in a vassal bishop's bishopric gives you 0.04 Cultural Points per month; every University you build in a vassal Mayor's city gives you 0.04 Economic points per month. --3) fighting battles (whether your character is leading troops or not) gives you a few Military tech points for each battle, unless it was a one-sided slaughter (like taking 10k dudes to hunt down a 2k peasant rebellion). --4) Finally, you get tech points as a result of certain events. You spend these Tech Points to develop new Technologies; these increase the Tech Level IN YOUR CAPITAL PROVINCE and nowhere else. If I'm the King of Ireland and my Capital is Dublin, when I click the button to get Improved Keeps II then poof! Dublin has Improved Keeps II. Oriel or Leinster do NOT. The way technology spreads out from your capital to the rest of the world - or from the rest of the world into your capital! - is the Technology Spread mechanic. Technology naturally spreads from a province that has it into a bordering province that doesn't have it (so that in the above example, Improved Keeps II will naturally spread from Dublin into Leinster without you having to do anything). This happens at a pretty slow rate, however. If you go to a province you'll see, under the box for the main holding, three symbols (a helmet, a chest, and a stack of books) with numbers next to them; these are the province's technology levels. You can mouse over the number to see details, and if you do you'll see if a technology is improving naturally thanks to tech spread; there's a yearly chance that it will improve (by .1 level - so from 1.8 to 1.9, for instance). Depending on the RNG this can take ages. The way you speed it up is by using your advisors. The various 'research' missions improve the rate of tech spread into the province that you've assigned the advisors to - so if you want tech to move from Dublin to Leinster more quickly, you place the advisors in Leinster. So that's simple enough, right? There are two little tweaks to remember, however. One is that every province in your demense is considered to border one another for the purposes of tech spread. If your capital is in Dublin and your demense also includes, say, the Isle of Mann, tech spreads from Dublin to Mann; it doesn't have to go from Dublin to Oriel to Ulster to Galloway to Mann. So if you have a spread-out demense it can actually be useful for your kingdom, because you can use your demense to generate several "hotspots" of technology that can then spread out into your vassals' holdings. The other thing is the Spymaster. When you send your Spymaster to Study Technology in a foreign province, that province is considered to be part of your demense for the purposes of technology spread, except tech only flows FROM the Spymaster TO you, not the other way around - that is, your Spymaster causes tech to spread from wherever you send him into your demense, but he doesn't cause tech to spread from your demense to wherever you sent him (so that if you have way more military tech than someone but they have more cultural tech than you, you can send your Spymaster to steal their Cultural Tech without worrying about them getting your Military Tech). So this means, basically, there are two Good Approaches to technology, depending on whether you're a tech leader or not. If there are people on the map with better tech than you, it's best to drop your Spymaster into their Capital (because any new tech they develop will pop up there first) and set your Marshal, Steward, and Chaplain in your capital on research missions to improve the speed of tech spread (assuming, of course, that you don't have more urgent missions for them). This increases the rate at which tech flows from the other guy's capital into your own capital. You want tech to pop up in your capital because most of the Cultural and Military techs give you bonuses when they're present in your capital but do you no good at all anywhere else. If you are the top tech nation - or at least among the top nations - on the map and there's nowhere to steal any tech from, keep your Spymaster at home. The technologies that are most useful to have spread are the Economic ones - they let you build new stuff in those provinces - so send your Steward into provinces in your demense other than your capital and have him research economic tech, to spread it out ASAP and let you build better keeps and training grounds and such. Military and Cultural techs only need to be in your capital in order to help you, so send your Marshal and Chaplain off to do other poo poo. If they're researching there is a chance they'll fire an event that gives you 50 tech points in their area of specialization - but by the time you're technology leader, 50 points ain't enough to make keeping them away from other jobs worthwhile. One last thing: Dukes and Kings generate tech points, even as your vassals. If your heir is a Duke or a King, he's developing Tech; when you die and he assumes the throne on succession, he brings his Tech Points with him. They get added to the total tech points you've discovered - which can be a pretty sizable boost sometimes, especially if he's been running an area that has lots of universities and monastic schools. Something to consider for long-term planning. *** I am, as I said, pretty sure all this is accurate; if someone from Paradox wants to correct anything I got wrong that'd be awesome.  Otherwise maybe this could go in the OP since questions about tech spread tend to pop up every couple of weeks like clockwork...
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Feb 27, 2014 01:17
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fool_of_sound posted:If I were asked to come up with a new system for random revolts, I'd probably have a revolt start off as a nasty province modifier rather than troops (something like -50% income, -50% levies), and have it kick off an event chain against the province owner (probably a different event chain for each of angry peasant, cultural, religious, heretic, and nationalist revolts), that they could respond to based on attributes and traits to try to contain or put down the rebellion. Responding well could reduce the penalties or remove them entirely, while responding badly could worse them or actually kick off a full revolt with troops. This would be actually really cool, not just because of giving more to do at varying levels, but just generally makes the interaction between you and your populace more interesting and varied. Yes, I get the main aim of the game is interacting with nobility and the like to ensure the survival of your dynasty, but no noble could turn a totally blind eye to their people, whether they addressed the issues peacefully, or rather messily reminded everyone that they were the ones with an army. This sort of thing could also make conquering/acquiring new provinces more interesting. Yeah you get penalties based on new ownership and whatnot, but what about replacing those with/also factoring in the sliding scale based on the opinions of the people, improving to a 'base' level after a certain amount of time has passed? It could even open up scenarios where, if the populace of a neighbouring (or distant but vaguely tied to you by relation) county/duchy/kingdom hate their current rulers so much that they invite you to invade, with the bonus of a major opinion boost with them compared to just regularly conquering folks.
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Feb 27, 2014 01:27
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Otherwise maybe this could go in the OP since questions about tech spread tend to pop up every couple of weeks like clockwork... I'm not sure why you would keep your spymaster at home once you've clinched the top dog spot; the chance for a mission success +50 tech points can fire regardless - you'd be missing out! edit : Removed my second point which was wrong Excelzior fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 01:28
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Excelzior posted:I'm not sure why you would keep your spymaster at home once you've clinched the top dog spot; the chance for a mission success +50 tech points can fire regardless - you'd be missing out!
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Feb 27, 2014 01:42
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That's assuming you don't need him to stab or blackmail anyone, and are willing to risk him coming back sans eyes or testicles. Also, does military tech only count in the capital? I know Siege and Organization does but I was under the impression that military tech affected the levies of that province.
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Feb 27, 2014 01:57
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fool_of_sound posted:If I were asked to come up with a new system for random revolts, I'd probably have a revolt start off as a nasty province modifier rather than troops (something like -50% income, -50% levies), and have it kick off an event chain against the province owner (probably a different event chain for each of angry peasant, cultural, religious, heretic, and nationalist revolts), that they could respond to based on attributes and traits to try to contain or put down the rebellion. Responding well could reduce the penalties or remove them entirely, while responding badly could worse them or actually kick off a full revolt with troops. I'd be inclined to argue that peasant revolts as anything more than occasional events and minor province modifiers pretty much should not exist until the late game, because they were pretty much unheard of before the 12th century. I'd argue that the chance of peasant revolts ought to be tied to the date, the plague (which if I remember right isn't currently modeled in the game though the traits exist) and three useful cultural technologies, Legalism, Noble Customs, and Majesty. The technologies each represent a factor which contributed to the upswing in revolts at the end of the period, specifically greater state control and taxation over free peasant farmers and city dwellers (Legalism), the change in class perceptions due to the development of nobility as something distinct from just "people who do the fighting" (Noble Customs) and the the growing ostentatiousness of the noble classes in highlighting the disparity of wealth between themselves and the peasants (Majesty). So in respect of your proposed system, I'd agree your system would be good (and it was good, being the system used in CK1 and early CK2+), with the caveat that other than minor flavour events, revolts should just straight up not happen until it's 1300, or the province has suffered bubonic plague, or a province has reached a certain level (maybe 6?) in one of those three technologies. So essentially revolt risk would be capped at 0%, then after 1300 the cap would be raised maybe to 1% and maybe 1% for each of he other possibilities. Meaning a fully advanced province which has suffered the black death after 1300 can have a max revolt risk of 5%. That might sound small, but honestly peasant revolts shouldn't be annoyances or sudden appearances of thousands of troops, they should be very rare late game narrative events which you can expect to see maybe once if you play a game start to finish.
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Feb 27, 2014 02:02
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Reveilled posted:I'd be inclined to argue that peasant revolts as anything more than occasional events and minor province modifiers pretty much should not exist until the late game, because they were pretty much unheard of before the 12th century. I'd argue that the chance of peasant revolts ought to be tied to the date, the plague (which if I remember right isn't currently modeled in the game though the traits exist) and three useful cultural technologies, Legalism, Noble Customs, and Majesty. The technologies each represent a factor which contributed to the upswing in revolts at the end of the period, specifically greater state control and taxation over free peasant farmers and city dwellers (Legalism), the change in class perceptions due to the development of nobility as something distinct from just "people who do the fighting" (Noble Customs) and the the growing ostentatiousness of the noble classes in highlighting the disparity of wealth between themselves and the peasants (Majesty). This sounds pretty rad. Rebellions as they exist now quickly grow to be unbelievably tedious, not to mention absurd (nationalist peasant revolts in 867?). It's a little crazy that the Black Death isn't modeled as anything more than a few random courtiers getting offed. I'm not asking for some huge, sophisticated pandemic simulation but it should at least get as much attention as the mongol arrival. Fuligin fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 02:06
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The black death is already totally a thing in the game, it just burns itself out way too fast for you to ever notice it. EDIT: Fuligin posted:not to mention absurd (nationalist peasant revolts in 867?). There are no nationalist revolts in CKII. Peasant revolts are presumably just pissed-off peasants fed up with the nobility, kingdom revolts are about restoring a traditional title, and all other revolts are religious in nature. DStecks fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Feb 27, 2014 |
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Feb 27, 2014 02:31
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DStecks posted:Agreed, but that seems like it could be tricky under CKII's revolt system. This could be a case where EU's rebellion mechanics might work a little better, since revolts in CKII are just like any other war, meaning they're targeted only against the liege, so vassals are under no obligation to do anything. I wonder if something that's based on traits of low-level vassals might work? e.g. a cruel count may be a good reason for peasants to rebel, etc. The modifier idea kinda sounds good in that respect, too: presumably the count will put down the rebellion themselves, but it may hurt the economy of their land.
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Feb 27, 2014 02:54
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DStecks posted:There are no nationalist revolts in CKII...kingdom revolts are about restoring a traditional title Those are nationalist revolts. Take a look at what the CB is called next time you see a kingdom revolt.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:00
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OddObserver posted:I wonder if something that's based on traits of low-level vassals might work? e.g. a cruel count may be a good reason for peasants to rebel, etc. The modifier idea kinda sounds good in that respect, too: presumably the count will put down the rebellion themselves, but it may hurt the economy of their land. All that's really doing is pushing around the numbers, though, and not changing the fundamental structure of the revolt system. Not to mention that I don't really see any gameplay purpose for revolts to happen at a county level, you're already so potentially vulnerable that you hardly need that added to your problems. fool_of_sound posted:Those are nationalist revolts. Take a look at what the CB is called next time you see a kingdom revolt. It's not nationalism. Liberation revolts are about restoring a title. If the HRE conquers all of the Byzantine holdings, then even though a bunch of Germans are running the place, nobody will mind so long as the de jure kingdom titles exist, even if it's Germans holding said titles. That is not nationalism by even the most generous definition.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:03
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Cutting off revolts until 1300 is a bit silly, because by 1300 you can smack down any revolts with your retinues and not even notice.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:07
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DStecks posted:It's not nationalism. Liberation revolts are about restoring a title. If the HRE conquers all of the Byzantine holdings, then even though a bunch of Germans are running the place, nobody will mind so long as the de jure kingdom titles exist, even if it's Germans holding said titles. That is not nationalism by even the most generous definition. They. are. literally. called. nationalist. revolts. by. the. game. That's why people refer to them as nationalist revolts, regardless of if they are actually nationalistic or not. Arguing about if that's actually nationalism or not isn't helpful.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:16
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fool_of_sound posted:They. are. literally. called. nationalist. revolts. by. the. game. No they're not? The war screen calls them "Liberation Revolt For the Kingdom of Whatever".
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Feb 27, 2014 03:45
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Fuligin posted:This sounds pretty rad. Rebellions as they exist now quickly grow to be unbelievably tedious, not to mention absurd (nationalist peasant revolts in 867?). It's a little crazy that the Black Death isn't modeled as anything more than a few random courtiers getting offed. I'm not asking for some huge, sophisticated pandemic simulation but it should at least get as much attention as the mongol arrival. I'm annoyed that Syphillis seems to spread randomly like a normal disease. You shouldn't be able to catch it unless you're banging someone who already has it.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:52
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Main Paineframe posted:No they're not? The war screen calls them "Liberation Revolt For the Kingdom of Whatever". Look at the CB name in the top left hand corner next time you encounter one (hover over the fist icon). It says Nationalist Revolt.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:53
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fool_of_sound posted:Look at the CB name in the top left hand corner next time you encounter one (hover over the fist icon). It says Nationalist Revolt. The text could say "Communist Revolt" but that wouldn't make it communist.
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Feb 27, 2014 03:54
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DStecks posted:The text could say "Communist Revolt" but that wouldn't make it communist. But if they were called that for some unfathomable reason it'd still be reasonable to use that name when discussing game mechanics!!
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Feb 27, 2014 03:56
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Rincewind posted:But if they were called that for some unfathomable reason it'd still be reasonable to use that name when discussing game mechanics!! It would be, but it wouldn't be reasonable to call the game absurd for including communism in medieval times. Fuligin posted:not to mention absurd (nationalist peasant revolts in 867?)
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Feb 27, 2014 04:18
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What is raise county levies any why would i ever choose it over raise realm levies?
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Feb 27, 2014 04:25
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Excelzior posted:I'm not sure why you would keep your spymaster at home once you've clinched the top dog spot; the chance for a mission success +50 tech points can fire regardless - you'd be missing out! Like I said, by that point I find the 50 point bonus to be nice, but not necessarily worth missing the chance to use my spymaster to boot people out of factions or assassinate people. Once you hit top tech nation status, you're usually more at risk from internal rebellion than any outside source - at least, the way I play you are - so it's worth foregoing an occasional bonus event in order to increase your stability at home, I find. It is, however, a matter of taste.
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Feb 27, 2014 05:01
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Rather than taste, I'd say it's a matter of necessity. If your emperor's been sitting on the throne for 40 years and the realm is just about as stable as can be, park the spymaster somewhere to go research tech. If a nasty faction appears, tell the spymaster to knock it off and come help you threaten people. Realm size doesn't really enter into it - if factions are forming or you want someone stabbed, then the spymaster's faction-busting and stab-helping tasks are incredibly helpful no matter how big your realm is. But if there aren't really any factions to worry about and you're not really looking to have anyone killed, at least he can go pass the time stealing someone else's tech until the next time intrigue is afoot. It beats court chaplains, who can just plain have nothing to do sometimes.
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Feb 27, 2014 05:22
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Charlz Guybon posted:I'm annoyed that Syphillis seems to spread randomly like a normal disease. You shouldn't be able to catch it unless you're banging someone who already has it. Your ruler gave a few peasants a good tumble.
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Feb 27, 2014 05:38
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Baron Porkface posted:What is raise county levies any why would i ever choose it over raise realm levies? It allows you to raise the levies from only your direct vassal barons, mayors etc. Basically if you want a little (and I mean little) extra oomph for a siege stack or something and don't want to risk pissing off the vassals that could actually threaten you.
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Feb 27, 2014 06:30
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Honestly nationalist revolts in 867 isn't TOO bad because "gently caress people who talk funny" has been a sentiment for a lot longer than "people like me are neato."
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Feb 27, 2014 08:05
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reignonyourparade posted:Honestly nationalist revolts in 867 isn't TOO bad because "gently caress people who talk funny" has been a sentiment for a lot longer than "people like me are neato." The problem with "gently caress people who talk funny" is that every other village talked funny. There wasn't really nationalism back then, probably the closest thing you could get to "nationalism" was support for different feudal lord. And that was something peasants didn't really care about.
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Feb 27, 2014 08:15
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Sometimes this game is so funny. I'm still trying to get my claim on Byz as Amalfi, but the genius daughter of the empress refuses to marry one of my male relatives. I spend the first 5 years of her adulthood murdering her husbands until her father dies and she's willing to join my court. By the time she agrees, she's married to an ex-peasant leader. 
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Feb 27, 2014 08:27
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The Mideast has been a clusterfuck of civil wars since game start which has lead to this gem.
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Feb 27, 2014 09:45
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Knuc U Kinte posted:Sometimes this game is so funny. I'm still trying to get my claim on Byz as Amalfi, but the genius daughter of the empress refuses to marry one of my male relatives. I spend the first 5 years of her adulthood murdering her husbands until her father dies and she's willing to join my court. By the time she agrees, she's married to an ex-peasant leader. Stab him.
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Feb 27, 2014 10:30
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Charlz Guybon posted:The Mideast has been a clusterfuck of civil wars since game start which has lead to this gem. Huh, is it normal for a captain that took territory from his employer to remain "lowborn"? I thought they got a dynasty name assigned to them when they take over a country/title?
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Feb 27, 2014 10:39
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Charlz Guybon posted:I'm annoyed that Syphillis seems to spread randomly like a normal disease. You shouldn't be able to catch it unless you're banging someone who already has it. I once had a ruler catch Syphillis right after the pregnant wife event fired. Was rather amusing considering she wasn't infected.
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Feb 27, 2014 10:57
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LunarShadow posted:I once had a ruler catch Syphillis right after the pregnant wife event fired. Was rather amusing considering she wasn't infected. Look man, there was a party, we all got very drunk, I don't want to talk about it.
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Feb 27, 2014 11:08
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Torrannor posted:Stab him. He was a corpse the moment I noticed his existence...the problem now is that I think the guy I married her to is impotent because it's been over 5 years and no babies. 
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Feb 27, 2014 11:18
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Knuc U Kinte posted:He was a corpse the moment I noticed his existence...the problem now is that I think the guy I married her to is impotent because it's been over 5 years and no babies. Well, if I were her husband I don't think that I could perform my marital duty due to stress. How many of her husbands did you say died from "unfortunate accidents"?
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Feb 27, 2014 11:24
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double nine posted:Huh, is it normal for a captain that took territory from his employer to remain "lowborn"? I thought they got a dynasty name assigned to them when they take over a country/title? It's because his highest-level title (Captain of a mercenary band) can be held by a lowborn character. Likewise, if you give the Pope a county, he won't gain a dynasty. If somehow he were to gain a King-level title (though I'm not sure if that's entirely possible for mercenary captains in any way whatsoever) he would gain a dynasty.
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Feb 27, 2014 11:38
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occipitallobe posted:It's because his highest-level title (Captain of a mercenary band) can be held by a lowborn character. Likewise, if you give the Pope a county, he won't gain a dynasty. If somehow he were to gain a King-level title (though I'm not sure if that's entirely possible for mercenary captains in any way whatsoever) he would gain a dynasty. That could get problematic, as I recall all of the "lowborn" are considered to be related to one another...
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Feb 27, 2014 11:50
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DStecks posted:It's not nationalism. Liberation revolts are about restoring a title. If the HRE conquers all of the Byzantine holdings, then even though a bunch of Germans are running the place, nobody will mind so long as the de jure kingdom titles exist, even if it's Germans holding said titles. That is not nationalism by even the most generous definition. I agree, the restore kingdom CB is probably one of the few revolts that make sense since they're reflected in history through the Scottish Wars of Independence and the Uprising of Asen and Peter which restored the Bulgarian empire. However, they really shouldn't happen for kingdoms which have not existed yet, and that's what makes them seem like nationalist revolts. There shouldn't be revolts in, say, the Kingdom of Denmark's duchy of Yorvik to restore the Kingdom of England when the Kingdom of England has never existed at any point. Or alternatively, why can the Slavic people in pomerania revolt to "restore" the kingdom of Pomerania after being conquered by Germany? There should be a check for if the kingdom has had any prior holders to prevent that.
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Feb 27, 2014 13:21
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