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There's no amount of PDFs that would convince me to drop $100 without a hardcover book and maybe a softcover with additional material forming the core of the offer.
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Mar 5, 2014 14:57
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Ettin asked me to post this for context - here's what he's thinking of making the $100 tier:Ettin posted:$100: Gimmick Tier (X total) The total cost is because this will most likely be done via DTRPG PoD using coupons.
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Mar 5, 2014 15:15
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I recently stumbled on this kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/252728880/the-clay-that-woke-an-rpg-about-minotaurs for what looks like an amazingly evocative story-game about being Ancient NotGreek Minotaurs (instead of dice or cards, you generate randomness by placing tokens in a bowl and drawing lots! For added authenticity, smash clay pots and scrawl the symbols onto ostraca!). It's already fully funded and has met all its stretch goals, but it doesn't say much about the actual rules, which makes me a little wary to back it. Does anyone have experience with the creator's earlier game, My Life With Master? It seems to get positive reviews on the internet, but it's never clear how much to trust them. Basically I'm worried that it might be full of evocative feel but not that fun to play. Thoughts? At $14 I'll probably go for the pdf in any case, but I'm itching to splurge on the book + tokens tier.
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Mar 5, 2014 16:02
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Currently owning but not having played My Life with Master, I'm not a great deal of help to you in this regard. I have heard, on a number of occasions, other's recollections of the games they've played and they sound excellent – definitely something I want to experience. It is a specific style of game, one that is designed to somewhat demonstrate what it's like to be in an abusive relationship and finding the will to stand up to them. It's not beating you over the head with this throughout, but that is the underlying theme that bleeds through. I'm probably making it sound bad, presenting something in the same positive light I see it as is not a skill I possess. The Clay that Woke has sold me immediately. I'll whip up my own tokens, but the printed book is definitely something I'll be getting. I like owning the book as well as the PDF in most cases, even more-so when the art is appealing as what we've been shown.
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Mar 5, 2014 16:50
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I hope this still counts as something that belongs in the KS thread, but James Mathe of Minion Games (of Hegemonic and "where are all my drat space coins?" fame) has put out his KS port-mortem. I don't think he owns his own contribution to his woes as much has he ought, but he sees the issues, and there's a lot of good Kickstarter insight in there, for those in this thread thinking of running one for their own games someday.
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Mar 5, 2014 17:04
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ianvincible posted:I recently stumbled on this kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/252728880/the-clay-that-woke-an-rpg-about-minotaurs for what looks like an amazingly evocative story-game about being Ancient NotGreek Minotaurs (instead of dice or cards, you generate randomness by placing tokens in a bowl and drawing lots! For added authenticity, smash clay pots and scrawl the symbols onto ostraca!). My Life With Master is amazing and if I hadn't already dropped a couple hundred bucks on Kickstarters thanks to this goddamn thread I would absolutely splurge on the book + token level for The Clay That Woke.
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Mar 5, 2014 17:39
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I'm fairly addicted to good looking tabletop minis, even if I never end up playing the game, so I backed on Drake II: Horizons, to add to my pile of cool minis. One of the big bonuses is that shipping is included to the US and Canada, so you pledge the amount shown without having to fiddle with adding more for shipping based on how much you pledge etc. You get a really nice amount of stuff in the pledge tiers, and the game has some interesting mechanics (when you take damage over your hit points, it sits on you til the end of the phase, and then you roll your endurance to see if it kills you or merely injures you) The game is well beyond funded, at this point 84k for a 15k target. Agressive shipping schedule, too, looking to be shipped by October.
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Mar 5, 2014 17:58
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Now that all the Kickstarters I backed have been funded I decided to look at random boardgame projects when I ran into Lineage. Basically you have 1-5 players playing as masters of some school of martial arts trying to do... Well, something. I didn't really understand what. Then there's one player playing the Emperor, trying to unify the land. The game seems interesting, I like how one player has a completely different objective to the rest of the players. I also like the theme (though not enough to back it instantly), and it doesn't look too pricey (at least if you're in the US). Can people who know more about boardgames maybe give their opinions on how fun-sounding the game mechanics are? Really, the shipping cost is pretty much the reason I'm asking for more opinions before deciding if I should back it or not.
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Mar 5, 2014 17:59
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Mehuyael posted:Now that all the Kickstarters I backed have been funded I decided to look at random boardgame projects when I ran into Lineage. There's a print and play version linked in the Kickstarter, why not try it for yourself?
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Mar 5, 2014 18:12
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Jedit posted:There's a print and play version linked in the Kickstarter, why not try it for yourself? I don't have the resources to print, making play difficult.
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Mar 5, 2014 18:15
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homullus posted:I hope this still counts as something that belongs in the KS thread, but James Mathe of Minion Games (of Hegemonic and "where are all my drat space coins?" fame) has put out his KS port-mortem. I don't think he owns his own contribution to his woes as much has he ought, but he sees the issues, and there's a lot of good Kickstarter insight in there, for those in this thread thinking of running one for their own games someday.
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Mar 5, 2014 18:59
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dwarf74 posted:I dunno, it sounds like he knows the responsibility was all his and he bungled it. It ups his image, for me. I agree. It sounds like he knows exactly what went wrong, and takes the blame for not having planned well for the projects. That's quite a helpful blog post he's got there.
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Mar 5, 2014 20:29
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NTRabbit posted:There's no amount of PDFs that would convince me to drop $100 without a hardcover book and maybe a softcover with additional material forming the core of the offer. In this particular case there are pricier packages (around 60 pounds) that include a hardcover core book and a print player's guide (which I think is softcover) for the game in question. But to me, print books are dead weight that add a great deal of printing and shipping expense as well as storage issues. A nice print book is a lovely thing to have and all, but I'm only going there for stuff I expect to be using heavily (with a few possible exceptions for people I respect greatly, like Greg Stolze and Luke Crane). I'm picking up Mutant Chronicles and Achtung Cthulhu because they look like professional productions with some cool ideas, not because I have any solid expectation of getting them to table, much less playing them enough to justify print copies.
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Mar 6, 2014 00:41
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I have Achtung! Cthulhu and am backing Mutant Chronicles at the 60 pound level for the same rewards. Hardcover Main Book and Player's Guide, plus all the unlocked pdfs. I think it's a fair price and a hell of lot better than what Earthdawn 4th had set its levels.
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Mar 6, 2014 03:37
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malkav11 posted:In this particular case there are pricier packages (around 60 pounds) that include a hardcover core book and a print player's guide (which I think is softcover) for the game in question. But to me, print books are dead weight that add a great deal of printing and shipping expense as well as storage issues. A nice print book is a lovely thing to have and all, but I'm only going there for stuff I expect to be using heavily (with a few possible exceptions for people I respect greatly, like Greg Stolze and Luke Crane). I'm picking up Mutant Chronicles and Achtung Cthulhu because they look like professional productions with some cool ideas, not because I have any solid expectation of getting them to table, much less playing them enough to justify print copies. I certainly appreciate this, but if I was skipping a hard copy entirely $15 would be my starting point for the main book in pdf format, and there'd need to be a hell of a lot of additional content and/or a good slice of creative invitation to make $100 worthwhile. Then again, I'm probably not the person they're looking at as an average or potential backer, because I'd need a tier that also sends me friends to play with 
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Mar 6, 2014 04:07
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Ettin posted:So hey, KS thread: Self-insertion. Nah but the one the other guy posted for you is actually a pretty great deal.
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Mar 6, 2014 04:08
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NTRabbit posted:I certainly appreciate this, but if I was skipping a hard copy entirely $15 would be my starting point for the main book in pdf format, and there'd need to be a hell of a lot of additional content and/or a good slice of creative invitation to make $100 worthwhile. Yeah, $15 is about my ceiling for a PDF and my expectations are pretty high for that. They're asking 20 ($30-ish) pounds for the core book + player guide in PDF and I wouldn't pay that. But the 40 pound tier ($60-ish) in this particular KS throws in all the unlocked books - another 8 sourcebooks so far and potentially up to 15 depending on how crazy the last few days turn out. (I'm guessing probably 10-11ish but who knows). And the Achtung Cthulhu addon is the core plus player guide plus another 9 books for the same 40 pounds. So that's a lot of stuff. And I'm a sucker for bundling. malkav11 fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 05:02
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I cant imagine paying 100 or more for anything that was all-digital. Even the video games I backed I opted for the physical tiers.
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Mar 6, 2014 05:57
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I know it's not technically a TG but the thing that got me to pledge $100 for Shadowrun Returns was the personalized Docwagon ID card. So I'd say cool personalized items.
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Mar 6, 2014 06:17
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Yeah for a hundred bones there better be something physical I can hold in my hands and lament that I spent too much money on Kickstarter again. In other news, I got my hardcopy of Tears of a Machine today, I had actually completely forgotten that I backed that at a physical tier.
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Mar 7, 2014 00:15
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As new backer I wish people would post photos of good and bad things they have received. Looking at KS there are some sketchy projects out there...
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Mar 7, 2014 02:11
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I backed a card game who went with the lowest possible bidder out of China, resulting in the ink coming off the cards. They did a reprint, promised to send out replacement copies, and then never did. What's most annoying, I think, is when the creator is clearly unable to complete the project, yet refuses to acknowledge that, give refunds, or really say anything at all. This happened to me with two software projects; one where I pledged and lost $5 and one where I lost $85. Good results: Torchbearer, Golden Sky Stories, Dungeon World, Fate Core. All produced really good quality books, of which I expect folks in this thread have already posted pics. (It's worth noting that every single one of those projects was based on a pre-existing, successful product.)
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Mar 7, 2014 03:45
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Post apocalyptic skirmish game called Across the Dead Earth looks interesting, but while they've posted beta test reports, they haven't actually put up a beta of the rules for backers to read. They're also letting backers vote on the next stretch goal, another gang, terrain, mercs or dogs. Backed it to see how it turns out at least. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Mar 7, 2014 |
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Mar 7, 2014 05:38
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Not related to any particular kickstarter, but I was just listening to the latest Shut Up and Sit Down podcast where they were discussing some TG kickstarter projects. Their contention was that we're consistently seeing wonderfully crafted miniatures projects that come with truly atrocious rules. It's easy to design — and even produce — all the gloss, but the crunch just isn't up to snuff. People still back them because the miniatures can be repurposed for something more useful and actually make for a better deal than going through more ordinary channels. That got me thinking. First of all, is this something people agree with? And if so, could it be that in time, we'll see more and more “generic” projects that simply are miniature sets. If the physical items are easy and the rules hard, how long will it take before it becomes the norm to separate the two? In other words, there will be some projects that create [random stripperific fantasy theme] models and a different project that would be well served by using some random stripperific miniatures you might have lying around.
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Mar 7, 2014 06:48
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Tippis posted:Not related to any particular kickstarter, but I was just listening to the latest Shut Up and Sit Down podcast where they were discussing some TG kickstarter projects. Their contention was that we're consistently seeing wonderfully crafted miniatures projects that come with truly atrocious rules. It's easy to design — and even produce — all the gloss, but the crunch just isn't up to snuff. People still back them because the miniatures can be repurposed for something more useful and actually make for a better deal than going through more ordinary channels. Miniatures are pretty much iAccessories for the deeper levels of geekdom. Human beings are very visual beings by nature, so whenever we see something that attracts the eye, whether they are prototype sculpts or just even concept art, we covet it. What we are not, and I have no idea how to say this without sounding like some combination of cynical, condescending and pretentious, are deep thinkers. Most gamers, let alone the general populace, do not really care about the inner workings of game design or whether a game is actually any good. For the most part, a game is just a convenience around which a social gathering can take place. What the game actually plays like is secondary to things like the company, the mood, and likely the copious amounts of alcohol. Thus, we have a top tier of reviewers where the most "insightful" thing they'll say about a game is that it's "just fun," because that is what most people care about, without the additional need to ask "Why?" Because "why" is a tough question to answer. At least much tougher than "Yes/no?" Thus, people see something flashy and likely overproduced and likely expensive, and equate all that to "this is a quality game," because things with money behind it can't possibly be bad, right? This will eventually lead to a delusion about the game actually being fun, when it's most likely the fact that you just like hanging around with your friends and rolling dice or whatever. I doubt you would ever see a generic project as you imagine because, as mentioned, the miniatures are what draw people to a game or, more appropriately, their wallets. Sure, Cthulhu Wars COULD probably function as an alright game with cardboard tokens instead of the miniatures, but would we be talking about it if it weren't for the ridiculously overproduced miniatures (disclaimer: I backed the gently caress out of this because of those minis)? The reason I even noticed Lagoon in the first place was because of the art previews shown on BGG. And I don't think anyone even cares that Kingdom Death's mechanics are apparently a chore to play through. Christ, I'm thinking about backing Tokaido's collector edition because of all the stuff they're packing in, and I'm not even the biggest fan of that game. We haven't evolved much from liking shiny objects, even if that shiny object is part of a trap. Although, I suppose the argument could be made that those "generic projects" you're talking about are just called "role-playing games." At least that's what I keep saying I'll use those Cthulhu Wars figures for.
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Mar 7, 2014 07:15
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How do you guys feel about RPG Kickstarters that offer the game re-written for other systems as stretch goals? Iron Edda did this almost exclusively, and I'm wondering if it's really that appealing to people.
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Mar 7, 2014 07:52
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I don't know if it's something every TRPG kickstarter should do, but a major appeal of Iron Edda for myself was having the rules done not just for other systems but for systems other than the bog standard Pathfinder/D&D/Dungeon World. Offering stuff like Pendragon rules made it stand out from the competition.
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Mar 7, 2014 07:59
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I pledged for Wicked Fantasy because of the Dungeon World stretch, but only after the stretch goal was actually unlocked.
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Mar 7, 2014 08:00
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Tippis posted:Not related to any particular kickstarter, but I was just listening to the latest Shut Up and Sit Down podcast where they were discussing some TG kickstarter projects. Their contention was that we're consistently seeing wonderfully crafted miniatures projects that come with truly atrocious rules. It's easy to design — and even produce — all the gloss, but the crunch just isn't up to snuff. People still back them because the miniatures can be repurposed for something more useful and actually make for a better deal than going through more ordinary channels. I backed Sedition Wars primarily because the minis would be good for any sort of Sci-Fi RPG I ran, and secondly because I played the game at a con and it was ok. I think a TON of people pledge for minis, especially because in some kickstarters you can get minis along a theme that would be more substantially more expensive to collect otherwise.
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Mar 7, 2014 08:04
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PublicOpinion posted:I pledged for Wicked Fantasy because of the Dungeon World stretch, but only after the stretch goal was actually unlocked. Same here. It's what I would probably have done for Iron Edda if the dude writing the DW rules had any design experience with DW - I don't think he's made anything PbtA before.
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Mar 7, 2014 09:19
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Same here. It's what I would probably have done for Iron Edda if the dude writing the DW rules had any design experience with DW - I don't think he's made anything PbtA before. To be honest these extra system stretch goals almost always are a turn-off for me. Unless the project is almost entirely setting details, the system is a huge chunk of what will make it work, and so I'm always leery of people seeming to think they can fit their game into another system without a lot of effort. In my experience the resulting system conversion is either phoned in and pretty weak, or creates a large delay. Then again, I mostly back storygames where the system is finely tuned to create a desired play experience; I imagine in the more traditional or OSR kickstarter campaigns the audience is used to treating rules systems interchangeably, so it could work better there.
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Mar 7, 2014 11:17
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Flavivirus posted:without a lot of effort. Yeah, this is the kicker. It's totally possible to fit pretty much anything into Fate or *World as long as you put the effort into writing a real adaptation of the fiction to those rules frameworks, but people so seldom do it because it's so much effort. Wicked Fantasy just involved race moves and a couple of CCs (written by Sage/Adam), so that was guaranteed to not be too bad. Iron Edda has fiction that is so different from Dungeon World (you're Norse warriors magically fused to the bones of giant skeletons to fight giant dwarven robots! i.e. it's Norse fantasy mecha instead of D&D) that it won't work as supplemental material - you would need to rewrite the base moves to make it work. If the stretch goal isn't "we'll write a PbtA hack based on this, it will be due out at least six months after the current game," that's a sign that the people doing it probably don't really get how PbtA works.
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Mar 7, 2014 11:35
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Tippis posted:Not related to any particular kickstarter, but I was just listening to the latest Shut Up and Sit Down podcast where they were discussing some TG kickstarter projects. Their contention was that we're consistently seeing wonderfully crafted miniatures projects that come with truly atrocious rules. It's easy to design — and even produce — all the gloss, but the crunch just isn't up to snuff. People still back them because the miniatures can be repurposed for something more useful and actually make for a better deal than going through more ordinary channels. They're completely right. Every CMON game has been mediocre at best, they are literally the GW of the crowdsourcing era. I don't know a ton about Mantic's properties but I get similar vibes from them. There have already been tons of mini-only releases, (Reaper Bones), but conversely rules-only gamesets don't move at all unless they're branded as RPGs. I get the impression that lots of people will buy into KS games based on sales pitch, and the minis become a mental defense. "Well, the $200 I spent on this lovely game isn't wasted, because look at all the minis I got!" Well, that and most people just have generally lower standards for games than my elitist rear end. But seriously, go lookup the Megaman game kickstarter and watch the gameplay video. It's horrible, and they made $300k because MEGAMAN MINIS!!!!!
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Mar 7, 2014 13:50
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The worrying thing is that some of those games will have one or two interesting ideas to disguise the fact that the rest of their ruleset is entirely horrible. Even that piece of poo poo 'game' Kingdom Death had that (the AI deck thing was legitimately an interesting way to deal with automation of a game-controlled enemy), only to have every action he made be 'roll 5+ and poo poo might happen'.
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Mar 7, 2014 14:25
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Tekopo posted:The worrying thing is that some of those games will have one or two interesting ideas to disguise the fact that the rest of their ruleset is entirely horrible. Even that piece of poo poo 'game' Kingdom Death had that (the AI deck thing was legitimately an interesting way to deal with automation of a game-controlled enemy), only to have every action he made be 'roll 5+ and poo poo might happen'. Which takes me back to the issue that most of these big splashy KS mini-fests don't publish their rulebooks up front. It's not the 90's; if you can't be bothered to have a finished ruleset available for your KS you're telling me that your primary interest isn't good rules.
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Mar 7, 2014 15:24
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Crackbone posted:I don't know a ton about Mantic's properties but I get similar vibes from them. The rules for Kings of War, Dreadball and Deadzone are all highly regarded, and Deadzone at least (the only one I personally backed so far) had extensive beta rules and feedback during the campaign, whereas their miniatures are often controversial and range from excellent to occasionally not up to standard.
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Mar 7, 2014 15:34
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Tippis posted:That got me thinking. First of all, is this something people agree with? And if so, could it be that in time, we'll see more and more “generic” projects that simply are miniature sets. If the physical items are easy and the rules hard, how long will it take before it becomes the norm to separate the two? In other words, there will be some projects that create [random stripperific fantasy theme] models and a different project that would be well served by using some random stripperific miniatures you might have lying around. This is why I backed Sedition Wars. I didn't care about the rules at all and just wanted a good quantity of what looked like well done sci-fi minis for cheap.
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Mar 7, 2014 15:55
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nesbit37 posted:This is why I backed Sedition Wars. I didn't care about the rules at all and just wanted a good quantity of what looked like well done sci-fi minis for cheap. Looked like is right. Then I got it and saw how crappy they were and I tossed it on ebay immediately.
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Mar 7, 2014 16:01
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Wow, so the Wicked Fantasy update today had good news about the Fate conversion, and a link to a really intriguing new KS. Time will tell how :wick: this one will be, but I like the idea and the price sure is right. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2006204732/885905659?token=a4fe0816
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Mar 7, 2014 18:07
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 23:25 |
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GUYS GUYS GUYS THEY FINALLY DID IT https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/637644432/sparow-cutting-tools?ref=discovery 
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Mar 7, 2014 18:17
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