p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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Cybernetic Vermin: Apr 18, 2005

one thing i do know is that students hate learning obvious toys. this is the one angle that i actually like javascript from; sit them down in front of the ie11 they have installed anyway, have them go to the university homepage, hit f12, go to the console, and make some elements dance around with some tiny snippets. calculate the area of the logo. proceed to write a function or two. that kind of stuff

javascript is sort of poo poo though so i am not about to walk into the swamp of department politics to trial it ;q

# ? Mar 10, 2014 23:41

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 22:16

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

when I was a kid I messed around with logo and some flowchart-based logic thing

with actual programming I started with excel macro recorder which was my gateway into learning VBA.

Then at uni I did maths + compsci and on the cs side of things they taught Java and Haskell in first year.

# ? Mar 11, 2014 00:40

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

when i was 10 i wanted to learn C so i could write cool games like exile: escape from the pit. i got a book about C and read it but couldn't figure out how to get a C compiler. i bought a cd on ebay that i thought included a c compiler, but it turned out to be a collection of delphi & pascal code snippets

# ? Mar 11, 2014 00:48

seiken: Feb 7, 2005; hah ha ha

MeramJert posted:

when i was 10 i wanted to learn C so i could write cool games like exile: escape from the pit. i got a book about C and read it but couldn't figure out how to get a C compiler. i bought a cd on ebay that i thought included a c compiler, but it turned out to be a collection of delphi & pascal code snippets

this is how you learn to program imo

# ? Mar 11, 2014 00:51

suffix: Jul 27, 2013; Wheeee!

when i was idk 12 some friends of mine wanted to make games, so they got a big C++ book by bjarne stroustup from the library, and i think it scared them off programming for good

good for them

# ? Mar 11, 2014 00:56

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

lol if you learned to program

# ? Mar 11, 2014 01:17

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

i learned to pogrom in the ukraine,

# ? Mar 11, 2014 01:35

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

kraftwerk singles posted:

oh you hate that kids in school and a lot more people in general will be able to play with embedded devices?

is it horrible because there's one more layer of abstraction over the hundreds of layers you're already working over?

why not have an IDE that compiles your bespoke javascript/LOGO/Whatever directly into microcontroller code. maybe include an advanced mode that transpiles that code into C, so beginners can see how blink(Pin1, 250); looks like in "computer language". like the Arduino IDE... but with javascript.

suppose that, internet.connect(ip); would initialise the device and open a connection at the ip address. what is the difference if that were really just a C macro vs. intepreted javascript source code from the point of view of: a) a student and b) the device?

a) no difference, b) you can do more stuff because it executes quicker

it's horrible because you won't be able to do much more then blink 8 LED's before the javascript interpreter melts the solder.

kraftwerk singles posted:

javascript might not be the best but you really think basic is better?

as a kid who was first taught BASIC in junior highschool, then Visual Basic in senior highschool; Yes.

# ? Mar 11, 2014 02:56

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

i learned trash eighty basic but at home my parents only had a pc

so my first language that i could really use was C. i dont recommend it

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:10

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Mr Dog posted:

gotta love c# enums. "Hey let's have a strongly-typed enum facility in our language that actually isn't strongly typed at all fart fart fart fart"

(whereas java treats the possible values of enums as opaque global static instances of that enum type instead.)

AlsoD posted:

in Haskell enums are implemented in terms of ints and functions to convert back and forth between the enum and the int

idk if you'd consider that good or bad

all enum types are "bad" and inelegant. they make no sense as a core feature of a type system. but they help with a problem set that every programmer encounters on a regular basis

working, non-hacky* enums are a sign of a language that cares more about practical use than hypothetical elegance

* (p-langs that give us hashtables from string to int need not apply)

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:14

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

i do my enums with #define

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:16

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

all enum types are "bad" and inelegant. they make no sense as a core feature of a type system. but they help with a problem set that every programmer encounters on a regular basis

working, non-hacky* enums are a sign of a language that cares more about practical use than hypothetical elegance

* (p-langs that give us hashtables from string to int need not apply)

Why? How else would you store a month, for instance?

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:16

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Mr Dog posted:

Why? How else would you store a month, for instance?

if you implement months as a dumb enum you should be shot

i18n 101 itt

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:18

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

seriously though there are a ton of great use cases for enums but they don't really make sense as a fundamental type

including enums is a Good Sign in a language, someone somewhere actually tried to use it

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:19

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

But but my garden of pure ideology... :qq:

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:25

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

elegance isn't desirable as a goal for a programming language design. it doesn't improve usability. consistency, safety, simplicity, and expressiveness are much more important. a language that strikes a good balance between those factors is elegant. what people call elegance is often novelty, or simplicity taken to an extreme. concept languages

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:33

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

if you implement months as a dumb enum you should be shot

i18n 101 itt

unless your product is explicitly limited in its geographic scope, e.g. a govt website. i had to convince my boss that we didn't need a database table of US states.

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:35

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Mr Dog posted:

Why? How else would you store a month, for instance?

however JodaTime wants. date/time code is just as easy to screw up as crypto.

don't write a datetime

# ? Mar 11, 2014 03:41

emoji: Jun 4, 2004

Tokamak posted:

why not have an IDE that compiles your bespoke javascript/LOGO/Whatever directly into microcontroller code. maybe include an advanced mode that transpiles that code into C, so beginners can see how blink(Pin1, 250); looks like in "computer language". like the Arduino IDE... but with javascript.

suppose that, internet.connect(ip); would initialise the device and open a connection at the ip address. what is the difference if that were really just a C macro vs. intepreted javascript source code from the point of view of: a) a student and b) the device?

a) no difference, b) you can do more stuff because it executes quicker

it's horrible because you won't be able to do much more then blink 8 LED's before the javascript interpreter melts the solder.

as a kid who was first taught BASIC in junior highschool, then Visual Basic in senior highschool; Yes.

maybe i want to help ugandan kids with AIDS program embeddable devices in fay or clojurescript and get mad hn swagger

# ? Mar 11, 2014 04:06

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

kraftwerk singles posted:

maybe i want to help ugandan kids with AIDS program embeddable devices in fay or clojurescript and get mad hn swagger

don't encourage me to drink myself to death.

# ? Mar 11, 2014 05:17

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

kraftwerk singles posted:

maybe i want to help ugandan kids with AIDS program embeddable devices in fay or clojurescript and get mad hn swagger

are you sam hyde

# ? Mar 11, 2014 05:19

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

i wrote two sonic adventure trivia-based rpgs in mirc script and ran the bots for them on an irc server you could get to from the original dc game when i was 14

i learned a lot about terrible languages and software back then, but you know, mirc was surprisingly stable, i think i had to reboot windows more frequently than the two or three bots i ran crashed

i was crashing programs on a c64 when i was like two tho, i don't remember when i learned basic because 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 and "lO "$",8" seem like my native language

my first memory of actually doing something programming-related was patching a broken piece of software when i was about 9 i think?

i was using bbses when i was six tho, and i recall being at bbs meet-ups earlier than that

# ? Mar 11, 2014 05:37

Janitor Prime: Jan 22, 2004; PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean; Fun Shoe

Dessert Rose posted:

i wrote two sonic adventure trivia-based rpgs in mirc script and ran the bots for them on an irc server you could get to from the original dc game when i was 14

i learned a lot about terrible languages and software back then, but you know, mirc was surprisingly stable, i think i had to reboot windows more frequently than the two or three bots i ran crashed

i was crashing programs on a c64 when i was like two tho, i don't remember when i learned basic because 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 and "lO "$",8" seem like my native language

my first memory of actually doing something programming-related was patching a broken piece of software when i was about 9 i think?

i was using bbses when i was six tho, and i recall being at bbs meet-ups earlier than that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43GChXc6RVY

# ? Mar 11, 2014 05:40

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

elegance isn't desirable as a goal for a programming language design. it doesn't improve usability. consistency, safety, simplicity, and expressiveness are much more important. a language that strikes a good balance between those factors is elegant. what people call elegance is often novelty, or simplicity taken to an extreme. concept languages

brainfuck is elegant in a way

# ? Mar 11, 2014 05:40

Dessert Rose: May 17, 2004; awoken in control of a lucid deep dream...

Janitor Prime posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43GChXc6RVY

dont post my childhood

# ? Mar 11, 2014 05:40

emoji: Jun 4, 2004

code:

so tessel
so servo-pca9685 as thing

port is plz tessel.port with 'A'

servos is plz thing.connect with port

very degrees is 0

such movement
  plz servos.moveServo with 1, degrees& 
  rly degrees is 0
    degrees is 180
  but 
    degrees is 0
  wow
wow

plz setInterval with movement, 500&

# ? Mar 11, 2014 05:49

duck.exe: Apr 14, 2012; Nap Ghost

my "Programming Language Concepts" professor is teaching us agda, a functional language even more useless than the haskell it's built on. on a recent student eval form he actually asked "should this class switch to haskell in the future?"

:wtc:

duck.exe fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Mar 11, 2014

# ? Mar 11, 2014 07:14

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

i assume you mean "useless" instead of "unless", in which case i will say that haskell is cool & useful

# ? Mar 11, 2014 07:35

motedek: Oct 9, 2012

DukeDuke posted:

my "Programming Language Concepts" professor is teaching us agda, a functional language even more useless than the haskell it's built on. on a recent student eval form he actually asked "should this class switch to haskell in the future?"

sounds like a pretty cool professor

# ? Mar 11, 2014 07:52

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

DukeDuke posted:

my "Programming Language Concepts" professor is teaching us agda, a functional language even more useless than the haskell it's built on. on a recent student eval form he actually asked "should this class switch to haskell in the future?"

it's a "Programming Language Concepts" class. how much use the language gets in ~the real world~ is irrelevant, what matters is its ability to demonstrate language features. and if you want to demonstrate the power of dependent types, Agda is one of only a handful of possible options.

having said that im surprised the class works in only one language, because itd be as educational to look at bad language design as good language design.

coffeetable fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Mar 11, 2014

# ? Mar 11, 2014 10:09

kitten emergency: Jan 13, 2008; get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

coffeetable posted:

it's a "Programming Language Concepts" class. ho.

having said that im surprised the class works in only one language, because itd be as educational to look at bad language design as good language design.

most colleges already teach c tho

# ? Mar 11, 2014 14:41

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

Dessert Rose posted:

brainfuck is elegant in a way

so's your face

# ? Mar 11, 2014 15:14

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

coffeetable posted:

having said that im surprised the class works in only one language, because itd be as educational to look at bad language design as good language design.

i really dont think they should teach php in colleges

# ? Mar 11, 2014 15:16

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

code:

$ c++filt __ZThn760_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize
non-virtual thunk to wxGrid::GetSizeAvailableForScrollTarget(wxSize const&)

code:

$ c++filt __ZThn792_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize
non-virtual thunk to wxGrid::GetSizeAvailableForScrollTarget(wxSize const&)

gently caress you C++ language

__ZThn760_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize

gently caress

__ZThn792_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize

youuu

# ? Mar 11, 2014 15:39

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

hackbunny posted:

code:
$ c++filt __ZThn760_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize
non-virtual thunk to wxGrid::GetSizeAvailableForScrollTarget(wxSize const&)
code:
$ c++filt __ZThn792_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize
non-virtual thunk to wxGrid::GetSizeAvailableForScrollTarget(wxSize const&)
gently caress you C++ language

__ZThn760_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize

gently caress

__ZThn792_N6wxGrid31GetSizeAvailableForScrollTargetERK6wxSize

youuu

dont use wxwidgets

# ? Mar 11, 2014 15:47

Pie Colony: Dec 8, 2006; I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

seriously though there are a ton of great use cases for enums but they don't really make sense as a fundamental type

including enums is a Good Sign in a language, someone somewhere actually tried to use it

enums are just a sum type with only nullary constructors, all the languages with enums are just _so close_ to getting it

# ? Mar 11, 2014 16:53

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

my favorite thing to do in java is shove a shitload of code into enums, its like having a list of functions :v:

# ? Mar 11, 2014 16:55

havelock: Jan 20, 2004; IGNORE ME; Soiled Meat

C# enums accept arbitrary ints for versioning reasons. Sum types force you to handle all cases at compile time, enums (in C# anyway) explicitly don't. As long as you have a default: in your case statement then you're fine.

# ? Mar 11, 2014 17:57

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

Malcolm XML posted:

dont use wxwidgets

not my fault, was just doing an OSX build of Password Safe

issue went away, it was probably due to compiling wxWidgets with gcc and the application with llvm, which possibly resulted in mismatched object layouts between app and library, which conceivably could result in different this-adjusting thunks (whose names inexplicably all demangle to the same string regardless of adjustment offset. cmon even Microsoft got it right)

# ? Mar 11, 2014 18:35

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 22:16

Bloody: Mar 3, 2013

hackbunny posted:

Microsoft got it right

never surprising

# ? Mar 11, 2014 18:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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