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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Incidentally, that's one of the changes I'm least happy with in 5. I hope for 6 they go back to a slider. 5's system is just too inflexible for my tastes. I think the problem I had with the slider was that it was just so stark. You were presented with a choice: make money or science or culture, you cannot have all three. A less "painful" way to set that up is to allow the player to decide which of those things their civ is going to focus on, e.g. by which buildings they choose to prioritize in their cities. If you think it's more important to build a Market before a Library, then you're putting gold ahead of beakers (EDIT: similarly, building a Library first means paying the opportunity cost of the gold value of the Market's hypothetical income during that time). I will grant that that approach (which is more or less the CiV approach) doesn't allow you to tank your science for a few turns in order to build up a huge stockpile of gold...but I find myself wondering how realistic that is anyway. A more simulationist model would be to allow your civ to go into debt (against its population) by issuing bonds, which would give you gold in the short-term but reduce your income over the next X turns, with happiness penalties (and unit revolts, etc.) if you can't pay up. TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 11, 2014 |
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Mar 11, 2014 21:11
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There are many disadvantages to playing this game high.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:35
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I am Reverend posted:There are many disadvantages to playing this game high. They really need to make snow give anything. ANYTHING Don't we have researchers in the antarctic? loving give snow Science or something, who cares.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:38
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I am Reverend posted:There are many disadvantages to playing this game high. Does that tiny patch of ice prevent you from being able to send out ships? 
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Mar 11, 2014 21:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I think the problem I had with the slider was that it was just so stark. You were presented with a choice: make money or science or culture, you cannot have all three. A less "painful" way to set that up is to allow the player to decide which of those things their civ is going to focus on, e.g. by which buildings they choose to prioritize in their cities. If you think it's more important to build a Market before a Library, then you're putting gold ahead of beakers (EDIT: similarly, building a Library first means paying the opportunity cost of the gold value of the Market's hypothetical income during that time). Realism should never be a concern. Neither model is realistic at all. Civ V's lead designer was actually critical of his own design with regards to the game's science model. Simply put, permanent choices aren't as interesting in a strategy game, and players generally enjoy more flexible systems that allow them to more easily adapt their country to evolving situations. That's also one of the reasons I like the Civics system better than the Social Policy system. That's not to say that there shouldn't be any important permanent decisions at all, but they should be used in places where it makes the most sense. Science vs gold income isn't necessarily that. Putin's idea is a pretty good compromise. It would basically be a further enhancement of the specialist system, making them more important. Dad Jokes posted:Does that tiny patch of ice prevent you from being able to send out ships? Yep, looks like it!  turns you into an AI, apparently.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:42
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Dad Jokes posted:Does that tiny patch of ice prevent you from being able to send out ships? I can make cargo ships but can't send them anywhere. I can't make fishing boats at all, and my other cities are on the coast on the other side so I can't upgrade those pearls.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:46
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Doltos posted:They really need to make snow give anything. ANYTHING This actually makes sense to me.
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Mar 11, 2014 21:56
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Speedball posted:This actually makes sense to me. "Sir! Our researchers in the Arctic have just had a breakthrough! Check out these new weapon prototypes!" "Excellent. With these new...spears...our enemies shall fall before us as wheat before the scythe!"
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Mar 11, 2014 22:10
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Good thing that you put that fort there to stave off invasion from the east.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:21
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Make snow give culture. Your people are having waaayyyy to much fun making snow angels and snowmen and other snow sculptures to worry about such petty things like food, production or gold!
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Mar 11, 2014 22:22
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Make it give happiness and watch the new ICS strategy become building as many lovely snow forts as possible to support the happiness of your sprawling empire.
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Mar 11, 2014 22:23
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:"Sir! Our researchers in the Arctic have just had a breakthrough! Check out these new weapon prototypes!" Makes as much sense as jungles giving science unless you count dead Predator loot. e: or The Thing 
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Mar 12, 2014 00:07
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warcrimes posted:Makes as much sense as jungles giving science unless you count dead Predator loot. The polar regions, though, you pretty much need modern technology to do anything more than (impressively) surviving in.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:09
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The White Dragon posted:The polar regions, though, you pretty much need modern technology to do anything more than (impressively) surviving in. Maybe units trained in polar zones could get special promotions, then? I don't know exactly how this would work though. You'd probably have to disallow rush-buying them and then say any unit "born" above or below certain latitudes get the promotions.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:13
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Make snowcones and/or freezy-pops a snow-tile-only luxury resource.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:16
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Have snow give tourism and gold, say, at Flight. Make it a tile improvement just because I think it would look cool. Computers give ludicrous gold output on unimproved snowy hills because the rich use helicopters to get at the untouched slopes. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 03:22
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+2 science from snow tiles in cities with a research lab would make a ton of sense. You would need plastics to live in that kind of environment anyway. I also don't understand why Dance of the Aurora doesn't apply to snow tiles. e: I'm also disappointed that none of the various Israel mods have 'border settlements' tile improvements. Your borders don't expand on their own, but you can build them adjacent to your territory to take the land. Throw in +1 faith for every couple of specialists and you've got yourself a fun civ. Count Mippipopolous fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 03:22
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Platystemon posted:Have snow give tourism and gold, say, at Flight. That... makes no sense. It's not like Siberia or Northern Canada are popular tourist destinations. The Snow tile represents barren wastelands with barely any life.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:25
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I'd just add a seals resource that's something like +2 food, and another food or production with a camp. Maybe let it show up on coastal tundra too. I don't think every iceball city needs to be productive, but there should be a few viable spots with the right resources.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:27
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That... makes no sense. It's not like Siberia or Northern Canada are popular tourist destinations. The Snow tile represents barren wastelands with barely any life. It makes about as much sense as science yield. There’s research done in Antarctica for various reasons, but not so much in Siberia or northern Canada.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:29
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My idea for an Inuit civ(back when i was still bothering to try to mod for this game)was to give them internal trade route bonuses if the trade route travels through an inuksuk UI, which could only be built on snow. That was my plan for making snow tiles useful for someone. I think snow should suck for most civs though. Snow Sucks in real life. There an Inuit civ coming up from this thread soon. Might have a better take than the existing inuit mods. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=488283
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Mar 12, 2014 04:03
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I'm still waiting for that guy to make a Haitian civ. I've seen a half dozen different Inuit mods for Civ5. It's a reasonably popular idea on civfanatics without the loaded nationalism you see from most of their suggested civs; I'm really hoping Firaxis will just embrace them for Civ6. They skirmished with the vikings, after all.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:29
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Echo Chamber posted:I'm still waiting for that guy to make a Haitian civ. Well, or Haitians, but their country can barely fund public schools, forget about locals having quad-core computers.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:52
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One of the richer Haitians who escaped over to the DR might be able to! A Haitian Civ would be awesome though.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:57
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I just want Olga of Kiev in the next game because she was the most metal leader of all time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_of_kiev quote:Princess Olga was the wife of Igor of Kiev, who was killed by the Drevlians. Upon her husband's death, their son, Svyatoslav, was three years old, making Olga the official ruler of Kievan Rus until he reached adulthood. The Drevlians wanted Olga to marry their Prince Mal, making him the ruler of Kievan Rus, but Olga was determined to remain in power and preserve it for her son.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:20
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Holy loving poo poo. I would love to see her in the game, but only if she has to be at war with every country every turn of the game.
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Mar 12, 2014 06:53
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It sounds like Olga overreacted. A trait still held by all women named Olga to this day.
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Mar 12, 2014 07:15
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Platystemon posted:It makes about as much sense as science yield. There’s research done in Antarctica for various reasons, but not so much in Siberia or northern Canada. Siberia and Northern Canada are mostly tundra with plenty of forest.  ^ Yellowknife, Northwest Territories  ^ Noyabrsk, Siberia Still useful for science but resemble temperate areas more than full on no-poo poo arctic biospheres. As far as full blown glaciers and long cold snow-deserts are concerned you generally don't see those until you get to the Canadian Arctic Archipelago or the most northern portions of Sibera.
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Mar 12, 2014 09:07
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Taiga. Not tundra. It's something that has never been properly distinguished in civ. Trees don't grow in tundra.
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Mar 12, 2014 09:41
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Phobophilia posted:Taiga. Not tundra. It's something that has never been properly distinguished in civ. I stand corrected. Still, they aren't cold deserts which is what I've gotten the impression that snow and ice tiles in Civ are supposed to be.
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Mar 12, 2014 09:43
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How about a ski resort tile improvement? It doesn't help flat snow tiles but at least it's a somewhat plausible reason for getting gold and tourism from a tile like that.TooMuchAbstraction posted:"Sir! Our researchers in the Arctic have just had a breakthrough! Check out these new weapon prototypes!"
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Mar 12, 2014 11:45
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Reminder: it’s possible to unlock destroyers before triremes. I call this the Vogon approach to civ.
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Mar 12, 2014 11:47
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Platystemon posted:Reminder: it’s possible to unlock destroyers before triremes. I call this the Vogon approach to civ.
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Mar 12, 2014 11:55
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Poil posted:How about a ski resort tile improvement? It doesn't help flat snow tiles but at least it's a somewhat plausible reason for getting gold and tourism from a tile like that. That would be more suited to mountains in better climates... there are not many ski resorts north of the arctic circle. Though there are resorts in lapland.
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Mar 12, 2014 12:02
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Poil posted:I prefer frigates without gunpowder, steel or even bronze working. Especially since you require iron, a resource you have no knowledge about whatsoever, in order to build them. I like Internet without Computers.
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Mar 12, 2014 12:24
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Poil posted:I prefer frigates without gunpowder, steel or even bronze working. Especially since you require iron, a resource you have no knowledge about whatsoever, in order to build them. You know, I never thought about the fact that forgoing sailing would block Biology and therefore oil. It’s really dumb to skip techs for so long (unless exploiting compounding beaker overflow), so I hadn’t tried it. KKKlean Energy posted:That would be more suited to mountains in better climates... there are not many ski resorts north of the arctic circle. Though there are resorts in lapland. Firaxis should just rename “tundra” to “taiga” and “snow” to “tundra”. That would be more consistent with the way they’re treated. They’re not averse to fudging tile utility for gameplay purposes, though. Modern universities derive a lot of research from jungles. Medieval universities did not, but jungle tiles need to get their science relatively early to keep things interesting. Why is it that I can’t cultivate/breed resources like wheat/cows/horses/bananas/citrus elsewhere? Am I to believe that only a handful of tiles are suitable for them? I’m perfectly alright with these from a gameplay perspective, just as I would be with ski resorts in the arctic. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 12:31
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All this talk about snow tiles is reminding me of how much the games theme is limiting its design space. Every civ has to be somewhat recognizeable so there's only so many things you can do to make them different, although the game would allow for many more possibilities. Things like terraforming abilities, cities acting as tile improvements, tile improvements producing units or colonization of inhabitable tiles come to mind. Sadly you couldn't explain these things in a historical context unless you're with the History Channel.
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Mar 12, 2014 12:37
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quote:Things like terraforming abilities, cities acting as tile improvements, tile improvements producing units or colonization of inhabitable tiles come to mind I'm curious as the the ideas in bold. I'm familar with Civ 3, where you could put colonies on resources JUST out of reach. The first one sounds like the 'Cottage' system I've heard of as Civ 4.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:12
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Bloodly posted:I'm curious as the the ideas in bold. I'm familar with Civ 3, where you could put colonies on resources JUST out of reach. The first one sounds like the 'Cottage' system I've heard of as Civ 4. Those were just random things I came up with that would expand the gameplay but would be hard to make plausible in a historical context. The colonization of inhabitable tiles I idea I got from Call to Power 2 which let you build cities under water in the late game.
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Mar 12, 2014 14:42
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Most people hate Barbarians but I love em. They really slow down players who are slingshotting for NC or Hanging Gardens, or players that are ignoring all military infrastructure to jump out ahead in culture and science and food. I almost never have a problem with barbs now that I take early game slower and establish guards for my workers. So, that being said, I propose that if you leave a barbarian encampment alone long enough, it should turn into a militaristic barbarian city state that wages wars on all the players until the city state is razed. This needs to be a mod.
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Mar 12, 2014 15:03
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