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What is that room made of anyways? Wolverine's bones? Other questions: -Why did Sif have to recruit the super-spy agency (which it is becoming harder to sympathize with as their super-spying capabilities become more fleshed out--a theme I expect we'll be beat over the head with in Cap 2) when Heimdall can literally see everything in the Nine Realms that the plot doesn't require him not seeing--oh wait. :< Well, at least those things usually get the courtesy of an expository hand-wave. -If Thor is already the self-anoited guardian of Earth, why did Odin (aka Loki) send Sif? I realize that perhaps he doesn't want Thor popping back into Asgard, but you think Thor would be more suspicious of the All-Father stepping on his turf. -Is Thor even going to do anything between now and his next movie aside from tickle Jane Foster with his beard? Cap's been running with Widow, possibly Hawkeye, maybe Falcon, and the rest of S.H.I.E.L.D., Stark is presumably -Why did we get a third of a season of existential angst over this miracle goo (before we knew it was miracle goo) when it seems the writers knew all along how dumb this poo poo was and had Skye piledrive it into oblivion like ten seconds at the end of an episode? -We got an episode of Simmons with Chitauri pox, will we get one of Ward with Asgardian herpes ("The Rash Eternal")? Jamesman posted:I kind of took it as he was already being seduced. Her touch just put him under control. You'd think Ward, getting the full debriefing and having a non-lethal weapon, would shoot first and ask questions later.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:47
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Hmm, why would they not send Thor to confront the lady who can control men with her voice, hummmm.
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Mar 12, 2014 16:59
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First Bass posted:What is that room made of anyways? Wolverine's bones? Other questions: She didn't really recruit Shield so much as Shield Showed up with a strike team right where she landed, and why the hell not use whatever resources are at your disposal in this world you aren't familiar with. If Loki is really building a group of criminals to use as weapons then Thor is the last person he would want involved. Also Thor is very much a dude, who could very much be controlled by Lorelai Thor is probably going to show up in Avengers 2(which is before Thor 3), but Loki/Odin probably doesn't want Thor around much at all, just to minimize risk of someone like him figuring it out. The Miracle goo isn't the problem for Coulson, more so his memories being overwritten, and the fact that Shield/Sword/Hydra/*insert organization shield is working with here* has a goddamn alien and pumping poo poo from it. And he can't find or talk to Fury to get answers. Or the Writers are just advancing the story quicker realizing that it wasn't resonating and are just moving things along quicker after seeing the response to the first part of the season. Also Jaimie Alexander is cheaper to bring onto a TV show than Chris Hemsworth.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:03
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greatn posted:Hmm, why would they not send Thor to confront the lady who can control men with her voice, hummmm. One of the only justifiable decisions they made, really.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:04
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greatn posted:Did anyone catch the name of that Blue alien Sif said had visited Earth 1000 years ago? (and was that just the species name of the frost giants?) The full list is Interdites, Levians, Pheragots, Kree, Sarks, Centaurians and Frost Giants. Sif mentions that the Frost Giants tried to conquer Earth "a millenia ago."
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Mar 12, 2014 17:14
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Dexo posted:Also Jaimie Alexander is cheaper to bring onto a TV show than Chris Hemsworth. duh, I'm simply poking holes in the plot they made with the resources they had alternative solution for the writers: stop shoehorning in loving asgardians (as much as I really enjoyed parts of this episode, jamie alexander is a irl goddess as well as plays one on TV) greatn posted:Hmm, why would they not send Thor to confront the lady who can control men with her voice, hummmm. like literally one line "Thor asked me to do this because of that past event we will continue to reference throughout this episode for no reason"
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Mar 12, 2014 17:17
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You don't really need a line justifying why you don't send Superman to fight Poison Ivy.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:21
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First Bass posted:duh, I'm simply poking holes in the plot they made with the resources they had ... Or you can not be obtuse and put together that the last loving thing you send against a person who can control men, is literally the strongest who has been seen in the Marvel Universe.
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Mar 12, 2014 17:24
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There were bits of this episode that I liked, but overall it felt like a wasted opportunity. For one thing, it wastes the chance to let SHIELD be smart for once. Rather than go with a mixed gender team then lose Ward in the first encounter and then bring in all female SHIELD agents for the Vegas raid, they should have done that from the start. Have Coulson, Ward, and Fitz stay back on the plane and help coordinate by radio while Sif, May, Skye, and Simmons are the only ones in the field. Especially since Simmons needs time out of the lab which Fitz got on his mission with Ward but Simmons really hasn't. And yes, obviously Skye's too shot up to be much use in the field right now, but there's no particular reason you couldn't have had this episode be the one that happens right after Thor: The Dark World. It would even make more sense for Sif to be in hot pursuit of Lorelai rather than them both showing up weeks after the Dark Elf attack. For THAT matter, having Lorelai mention that Ward has "the heart of a berzerker" would be nice foreshadowing of the Berzerker Staff if they swapped this episode in the order for the one they actually showed. And, now that I think about it, the hidden Asgardian having kept secrets leading to people getting hurt would be a better parallel for Coulson's decision to go rogue in order to learn SHIELD's secrets. If you still want the second half of the story on the plane then all you need to do is have Lorelai escape the battle at the bar and trail the girls back to the Bus. Then she ambushes Fitz and Ward and the story goes on exactly as it did in the second half without the team seeming to be stupid in general and Ward a moron in particular. Or, if you don't want to re-write the whole thing, have Ward pull the trigger than have it turn out that Asgardians are too tough to be Night-nighted, or their physiology is too different or something. It would still be stupid for him to even be there but at least they wouldn't have the ridiculous scene they actually showed.  In short, don't loving insult my intelligence, show. Be smarter than this. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 17:53
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Dexo posted:... Or you can not be obtuse and put together that the last loving thing you send against a person who can control men, is literally the strongest who has been seen in the Marvel Universe. Also, didn't Sif kind of imply that Thor might have been caught by her once before?
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Mar 12, 2014 18:01
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Didn't she also somewhat imply that she had to kill the guy she was referring to? Making it not thor.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:04
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Jamesman posted:To get together an all-female strike force would have taken too long and would have been almost pointless. This is very likely true, but I did like the fact that when they tried to catch Lorelai and Wars in Vegas it was with an all female team. SHIELD, they're slow-learners but they do catch on.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:04
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Javid posted:Didn't she also somewhat imply that she had to kill the guy she was referring to? Making it not thor. I thought that was a different line. I thought she mentioned something about how even the strongest in Asgard were unable to resist her or something along those lines.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:05
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Dexo posted:... Or you can not be obtuse and put together that the last loving thing you send against a person who can control men, is literally the strongest who has been seen in the Marvel Universe. Okay, let's put that aside: Lorelei is quite possibly the best thing to have on your side if you want to turn the God of Thunder into your personal bootycall. After the sacking of Asgard, huge time gap forgotten, Lorelei finds her way to Earth. The only way to leave Asgard aside from the Bifrost, which she probably didn't waltz across (but then again S.H.I.E.L.D. did find her last location through tracking the anomalous readings which could be the Einstein-Rosen bridge or simply another gravitic anomaly), is through the secret passages only Loki and Thor know the locations of. This lends credence to the idea that Lorelei was sent to Earth to wreak havoc for pseudo-Odin (Pseudodin? Psodin?). But then ignoring the possibility of Loki being truly reformed or, if not that, then was at least content finally having a kingdom over which to rule, giving him no incentive to see Lorelei escape Asgard in the first place or antagonize Thor who was perfectly happy on Earth and posed no threat to his rule, why would he direct Sif, the one warrior in Asgard who knows Lorelei better than anyone else and is immune to her charms, against her in place of Thor, or in place of engineering a circumstance in which Thor would be forced to intervene and risk his agency? Even if Loki had to send Sif to keep Sif or Thor from growing suspicious, then he could at least have sent Lorelei with some insurance that she would have been able to deal with Sif (which is another way S.H.I.E.L.D. could have helped instead of the space collar becoming victim to a shotgun, which all things considered makes it pretty loving shoddy when the person its on can take bullets like a champ and bench press cars, and then Fitz somehow fixing the technology of a civilization so advanced that they fight with skipped right past death rays and black hole grenades to swords and shields). tl;dr  plotholes ahoy, episode should have been this: Javid posted:Didn't she also somewhat imply that she had to kill the guy she was referring to? Making it not thor. I was really confused too, they seemed to be talking about both Thor, even to the point of explicitly mentioning Thor, and a not-Thor, but I can't be sure because I watched this at like 3 AM.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:30
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She was definitely talking about someone else who was her former lover that got taken by Lorelei.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:33
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The full list is Interdites, Levians, Pheragots, Kree, Sarks, Centaurians and Frost Giants. Sif mentions that the Frost Giants tried to conquer Earth "a millenia ago." I wonder if Gnobians were intentionally left off that list, or if this kills that theory.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:11
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First Bass posted:Okay, let's put that aside: Lorelei is quite possibly the best thing to have on your side if you want to turn the God of Thunder into your personal bootycall. After the sacking of Asgard, huge time gap forgotten, Lorelei finds her way to Earth. The only way to leave Asgard aside from the Bifrost, which she probably didn't waltz across (but then again S.H.I.E.L.D. did find her last location through tracking the anomalous readings which could be the Einstein-Rosen bridge or simply another gravitic anomaly), is through the secret passages only Loki and Thor know the locations of. This lends credence to the idea that Lorelei was sent to Earth to wreak havoc for pseudo-Odin (Pseudodin? Psodin?). But then ignoring the possibility of Loki being truly reformed or, if not that, then was at least content finally having a kingdom over which to rule, giving him no incentive to see Lorelei escape Asgard in the first place or antagonize Thor who was perfectly happy on Earth and posed no threat to his rule, why would he direct Sif, the one warrior in Asgard who knows Lorelei better than anyone else and is immune to her charms, against her in place of Thor, or in place of engineering a circumstance in which Thor would be forced to intervene and risk his agency? Even if Loki had to send Sif to keep Sif or Thor from growing suspicious, then he could at least have sent Lorelei with some insurance that she would have been able to deal with Sif (which is another way S.H.I.E.L.D. could have helped instead of the space collar becoming victim to a shotgun, which all things considered makes it pretty loving shoddy when the person its on can take bullets like a champ and bench press cars, and then Fitz somehow fixing the technology of a civilization so advanced that they fight with skipped right past death rays and black hole grenades to swords and shields). Or Loki used this as an excuse to get Sif out of Asgard for one reason or another. Loki doesn't give a poo poo about killing Thor after the second movie. He has the throne. Loki honestly has only been antagonistic to Thor in his pursuit of a throne. Loki has the throne and Thor doesn't want it. Now that Loki has the throne he probably doesn't give a poo poo about Thor, beside realizing that Thor can't figure out that he's alive. Also those aren't really plot holes, just stuff they didn't choose to surface. It can't be a plot hole unless it is something that's impossible to explain, there could very easily be explanations for how Lorelai got to earth and why Sif was sent. Those explanations just aren't a part of the scope of the show. Whether the show picked the right scope so to speak is up for debate. But them choosing not to go in depth on something does not a plothole make. It's like a comics crossover event where the non event books will have random unexplained stuff happen that makes no sense until you see the whole picture. Dexo fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 19:18
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Who says Loki even sent Lorelei at all? Maybe she actually got out and found the secret passage or whatever on her own. He probably wants her for him to make use of, sure, hence needing her alive.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:21
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Dexo posted:Also those aren't really plot holes, just stuff they didn't choose to surface. But you see the thing about that is, we are never, ever, ever going to see the Sif-Lorelei-Loki connection, or anything of remote significance from this episode, in either Avengers 2 or, more likely, Thor 3 which we can probably expect in 2016 or 2017.  The real gripe here, as I've tried tried to spell out (though which I've sort of drowned out in nitpicking, but to prove a point!), isn't the shoddiness of the story in and of itself, but the tenuous nature of its relation to the narrative of the show. It's a tie-in episode that will never have any meaningful connection to the thing its tying into, unless Marvel decides it wants to subject us to yet more "Sif wants to jump Thor's hammer" tripe, which can be done without referencing a 45-minute episode that happened three years ago by the time a movie would hit theaters. I get it, though, we're being reminded that this is a universe with Asgardians who are making a habit of popping in every once and a while, but there are so much better ways to world-build (this issue includes the fact that S.H.I.E.L.D. is the best-advertised clandestine organization on the planet, what with the fact that it has its logo on everything from otherwise-unmarked cars to loving water bottles), and I feel it comes at the expense of what could really be a great show on its own instead of a commercial with really inconsistent air dates.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:42
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It is also possible Loki just wanted her back in jail where she belonged, Idris Elba perceived her when she started using her power on Earth, and Loki sent the most qualified Asgardian to track her down.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:03
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greatn posted:She was definitely talking about someone else who was her former lover that got taken by Lorelei. They even gave the dude a name, Haldir or something like that.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:14
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Javid posted:Who says Loki even sent Lorelei at all? Maybe she actually got out and found the secret passage or whatever on her own. He probably wants her for him to make use of, sure, hence needing her alive. Probably when she escaped she just went of to Heimdall and said "Send me to Earth" and since he's a man he said "Okay."
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Mar 12, 2014 20:21
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Heimdall was able to will himself free from being frozen by the frost giant thing. No way he would fall for her.  At the very least he would have withstood her voice and known better than to let her touch him.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:35
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Stringer Bell don't take no poo poo.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:45
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They outright say in the episode that she snook out using one of Loki's secret passages.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:47
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e X posted:They outright say in the episode that she snook out using one of Loki's secret passages. Don't let facts get in the way of bitching.
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Mar 12, 2014 20:52
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Casting news: http://marvel.com/news/tv/2014/3/12/22144/exclusive_adrian_pasdar_to_play_glenn_talbot_on_marvels_agents_of_shield. Interesting choice of character... Could possibly be revealing, especially considering that everyone has seemed to forget that a live action Hulk show was planned and then dropped around the same time news of AoS started popping up.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:05
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So in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Asgardians aren't gods with magical powers, they are instead just aliens that use super-science to gain abilities that seems like magic... However, in the last episode of SHIELD Sif outright calls Lorelai's power sorcery. She could just be keeping it simple for the poor little mortals, but I wonder if this could also be a literal statement that serves as a bit of world-building for when Doctor Strange is introduced (straight-up magic). Just seems like one of those minor details to note.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:18
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1) Is Glenn Talbot not-Thunderbolt Ross? 2) Is this going to cut into Pasdar's time as Iron Man in nearly every video game, cartoon, and anime? 3) Does this mean Skye is a Hulk?
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Mar 12, 2014 21:19
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ToastyPotato posted:Casting news: Instead of making up random flunkies for the show, they use random flunkies from the comics. I can live with that. Tarquinn fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 21:23
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imperialparadox posted:So in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Asgardians aren't gods with magical powers, they are instead just aliens that use super-science to gain abilities that seems like magic... It's probably either just a thing where "sorcery" is a short-hand for the stuff Loki, Lorelei, and Frigga can do with the Kirby-esque science-is-magic thing, or an oversight. I lean towards the former; it's pretty un-warrior princess-like to just go "oh well technobabble quantum pheromones". Like in The Dark World, it was a Soul Forge  , not a Quantum Field Generator  . Also I did totally miss Sif saying that Lorelei escaped through one of Loki's little secret nooks. The plot doesn't really thicken, though. Four Score fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 21:36
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Dexo posted:... Or you can not be obtuse and put together that the last loving thing you send against a person who can control men, is literally the strongest who has been seen in the Marvel Universe. Hulk strongest one there is, not Thor.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:46
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First Bass posted:
During the whole Skye is an 084 reveal the agent who took off after people started getting killed over it, he stated Skye was found as an infant. And now I want to see an infant Hulk.
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Mar 12, 2014 21:58
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Skye is not, nor will ever be, She Hulk.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:22
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Skye is a Rutan.
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Mar 12, 2014 22:45
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Watching this episode, I wish Sif was played by Claudia Black. She's so much more convincing as a badass.
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Mar 13, 2014 06:44
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Also, this is the first episode that made me start to actually care about the metaplot.
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Mar 13, 2014 06:54
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I give 0.0 fucks, this show owns and if they can put out an episode like that every once in a while, I'll keep watching loyally. Or, hell, just give me an Asgard show.
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Mar 13, 2014 07:48
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Highly enjoyable episode to say the least. loving stupid it takes another bloody break just when things are beginning to roll and fall into place.
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Mar 13, 2014 11:06
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Yeah, it wasn't the worst episode. May jumps to the conclusion Lorlei only controls men a little too quickly and the twist at the end was really shoddily shoved in there, but this was the first time I sat through an episode of SHIELD without falling asleep a dozen times. Progress!eriktown posted:Watching this episode, I wish Sif was played by Claudia Black. Nobody knows who that is.
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Mar 13, 2014 11:59
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