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Lolie posted:Or they were turned on and India shot the aircraft down when they couldn't identify it (unlikely, but so are most of the other theories). They only shoot it down when it stops them from raping so if the plane said "Stop assaulting that woman!" then they prolly shot it. Okay I think I'm beating a dead horse a bit much here.
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Mar 15, 2014 10:56
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That wouldn't explain 7 hours of pings unless it circled in the Bay of Bengal until it got noticed.
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Mar 15, 2014 10:58
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Sinjang posted:That wouldn't explain 7 hours of pings unless it circled in the Bay of Bengal until it got noticed. The comments I've heard from "the experts" state that they don't know whether the plane was flying when those pings were received. All it seems to "prove" is that the plane probably wasn't underwater during the time it was pinging. It's interesting how we accept that the ocean is a vast place into which things can simply disappear but we're unnerved by the possibility of large objects disappearing over land and not being discovered relatively quickly. I suspect that if we ever learn the truth it will be worthy of a Seconds from Disaster episode and involve a perfect storm of circumstances. Lolie fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Mar 15, 2014 |
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Mar 15, 2014 11:08
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I'm not really sure how to take the Malaysian announcement that they are certain the plane was hijacked. Unless they have some information which isn't made public, they just seem to be basing this off the flightpath tracked by military radar. While that pattern of flying could indicate a hijacking or a struggle in the cockpit, it could also indicate a flight crew that is disorientated or distracted by another on board emergency such as a fire etc. Again, looking at Air France 447, the copilot put the plane into a steep climb before the plane stalled out and dropped 38,000 feet in just over 3 minutes and other crashes caused by pilot confusion have resulted in similar patterns of erratic flying. I can't help but feel that from the fake passport onwards people have decided it was terrorism and are fitting any new developments into that theory but they still have no evidence, only a theory which happens to fit the facts.
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Mar 15, 2014 11:39
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Skipjack posted:I'm not really sure how to take the Malaysian announcement that they are certain the plane was hijacked. Unless they have some information which isn't made public, they just seem to be basing this off the flightpath tracked by military radar. While that pattern of flying could indicate a hijacking or a struggle in the cockpit, it could also indicate a flight crew that is disorientated or distracted by another on board emergency such as a fire etc. Again, looking at Air France 447, the copilot put the plane into a steep climb before the plane stalled out and dropped 38,000 feet in just over 3 minutes and other crashes caused by pilot confusion have resulted in similar patterns of erratic flying. Well the disconnected transponder is probably the most damning evidence at this point.
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Mar 15, 2014 11:53
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That could still have been caused by a fire though.
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Mar 15, 2014 11:57
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It's possible they are adding 1+1 and getting 5. I don't really trust their judgement at this point.
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Mar 15, 2014 11:59
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Skipjack posted:That could still have been caused by a fire though. There's just too many wierd stuff happening that would never be caused except through human intervention, every means of communication turned off, plane flying west for hours and possibly ending up in china, nobody on the plane attempting to make contact or even open their cell phones. if it had been a natural crash, then debris or something wouldve showed up by now in the area of the original flight path, and no one would be saying that the plane had been tampered with and there wouldve been some transponder or engine data happening as the plane went to it's doom. I still think the plane crashed,hijacked or not, because (and I'm projecting here) if I had been a passenger on the plane I wouldve opened my cell phone and turned on roaming GPS or something by now, unless the hijackers confiscated all the phones or threatened me at gunpoint to not turn it on.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:02
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I think the authorities are forcing a narrative to fit the limited evidence - it already smacks of a covering asses job.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:08
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WastedJoker posted:I think the authorities are forcing a narrative to fit the limited evidence - it already smacks of a covering asses job. I really could give a poo poo. I just hope they use jizz and bjays.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:14
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CactusWeasle posted:It's possible they are adding 1+1 and getting 5. I don't really trust their judgement at this point. There was some British aviation expert who was shown on news-clips here saying that he didn't regard the available data as conclusive evidence of high-jacking rather than some kind of disaster. Even the media themselves were pointing out tonight just how much inaccurate information is coming out and how frequently it's rebutted soon after release. This is an event which involves experts assessing massive amounts of technical data and which is being reduced to simple statements by the media. It's inevitable that their "translations" will be misleading or even outright incorrect.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:17
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Al-Saqr posted:There's just too many wierd stuff happening that would never be caused except through human intervention, every means of communication turned off, plane flying west for hours and possibly ending up in china, nobody on the plane attempting to make contact or even open their cell phones. There's no cell coverage over the ocean so the fact no one called home isn't particularly surprising. Likewise, turning on your GPS wouldn't do anything because it is a passive service; your phone looks for signals being broadcast by satellites. Without a cell signal there's no way of relaying your position to the rest of the world. Also if the plane was flying west it'd be flying away from China. If it was going to be used in a 9/11 style attack, it looks most like the target was somewhere in Malaysia, hence the plane turning back on itself, and then there was a struggle where the plane was turned away from the mainland and eventually crashed, maybe due to passengers trying to fly the plane in place of the flight crew who were incapacitated. The thing is, that's just as feasible as a fire breaking out on board which slowly disabled electrical systems, starting with the radio, prompting the pilots to attempt to turn back before getting disorientated as their instrumentation failed. There doesn't seem to be any specific evidence to lead more in one direction than the other which makes it doubly confusing that Malaysia are announcing it was terrorism for defs.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:18
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Fortuitous Bumble posted:I tried the tomnod website but all I found were some whales Congratulations, you are officially more capable than the Malaysian government at providing intelligence information on this disappearance.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:18
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Skipjack posted:I'm not really sure how to take the Malaysian announcement that they are certain the plane was hijacked. Unless they have some information which isn't made public, they just seem to be basing this off the flightpath tracked by military radar. While that pattern of flying could indicate a hijacking or a struggle in the cockpit, it could also indicate a flight crew that is disorientated or distracted by another on board emergency such as a fire etc. Again, looking at Air France 447, the copilot put the plane into a steep climb before the plane stalled out and dropped 38,000 feet in just over 3 minutes and other crashes caused by pilot confusion have resulted in similar patterns of erratic flying. I'm sure they know more than we do and the fake passports were pretty much immediately thrown out by all investigators and people on the ground. The fact is the transponder and ACARS were shut off separately (could be a slow moving electrical fire, I suppose) roughly at the point of handoff from Malaysian air traffic control. The plane then flew for more than seven hours, including a known stretch along waypoints that would have to be set manually, even if autopilot finished them. It's possible they set them during some catastrophe and were then knocked out a la the Helios flight but that seems less likely than foul play. US investigators have been leaking stuff about possible foul play and onwards flight days before the Malaysians. Clearly the Malaysians are ready to begin to acknowledge this narrative publicly, so it's probably the best they're working with. Edit: the waypoints are what really throw me off about possible disorientation. MothraAttack fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Mar 15, 2014 |
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Mar 15, 2014 12:27
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Skipjack posted:I'm not really sure how to take the Malaysian announcement that they are certain the plane was hijacked. Unless they have some information which isn't made public, they just seem to be basing this off the flightpath tracked by military radar. While that pattern of flying could indicate a hijacking or a struggle in the cockpit, it could also indicate a flight crew that is disorientated or distracted by another on board emergency such as a fire etc. Again, looking at Air France 447, the copilot put the plane into a steep climb before the plane stalled out and dropped 38,000 feet in just over 3 minutes and other crashes caused by pilot confusion have resulted in similar patterns of erratic flying. My understanding is that it's based on the totality of circumstantial evidence that they have (some of which hasn't been made public). Any one part of the picture could easily result from a mechanical failure, but it's not so much what went wrong, as what went right. The route that would be programmed into the autopilot deviated significantly from the information we have as to the plane's location in flight, scant as it is. I think it's based on the following factors (all times in local): 1. Communications A: Last ACARS transmission at 0107, last verbal at 0130. B: The transponder and ACARS were disabled, by whatever means, after 0130 C: Last confirmed satellite communication at 0811 2. Radar A: After transponder was disabled, primary radar shows an aircraft that was likely MH370 that made a course change which was not following the programmed route of the original flight plan. Either the autopilot was reprogrammed or the route was flown by hand. B: Primary radar tracks are consistent with satellite communications showing route changes. C: MH370 primary radar tracks and satellite communications show the aircraft following a route roughly consistent with navigation waypoints for a north-northeast track, passing near the Andaman islands. D: Possible corridors are from border of Kazakhstan to Thailand (northerly) or Indonesia to southern Indian ocean (southerly) No conceivable mechanical problem would cause the aircraft on autopilot to follow a different route than was originally programmed in. The data we have shows that MH370 followed a route that used navigational aids, and was not due to random chance. Deliberate human intervention of some type would be required to produce the information we now have about the aircraft's position. Given that the aircraft was still transmitting data to satellites as late as 0811, almost 7 hours after all communication was lost, there can be no other reasonable conclusion than a person or persons intentionally disabled MH370's transponder, exceeded the 777-200ER max ceiling for reasons unknown, and then changed course, still following existing navigational aids. Back of the envelope calculations give a reasonable estimate of the range of the aircraft as 3,450 nm based on the minimum legal fuel requirements. The maximum range of the aircraft type, at maximum load, is roughly 8,892 nm air distance (not factoring winds). Whatever happened aboard that aircraft, some person or persons aboard caused it and intentionally evaded detection and communication. We know it was still transmitting at 0811 - whether it was in the air or not at this point is unknown, but the aircraft was intact.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:31
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Skipjack posted:There's no cell coverage over the ocean so the fact no one called home isn't particularly surprising. Likewise, turning on your GPS wouldn't do anything because it is a passive service; your phone looks for signals being broadcast by satellites. Without a cell signal there's no way of relaying your position to the rest of the world. They have not announced it as terrorism for defs skipjack my dear. They have only said that the plane's communication equipment failure and course change were deliberate. anything more is speculation at this point. Also, a fire spontaneously breaking out on board which circumvents all 10 redundancies to somehow disable transponders and communications equipment instantaneously without a chance for the pilots to notify anyone on the ground, which for some reason causes the pilot to turn around and fly in the opposite direction for seven hours is a scenario which has probably been considered and dismissed as not feasible at all, by those who know a bit more about planes than you skipjack.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:36
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Well gently caress me, I didn't realise the new flight path was following waypoints. That makes it easier to understand why they are leaning toward it being some sort of deliberate action rather than malfunction.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:38
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For anyone not in the know, the guardian live blogs are the best place to visit to obsess over this drama and its comments sections have featured the most concentrated collection of posts ending with some variation of "Just saying..." that I've yet seen on the internet. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/mh370-search-for-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-extended-to-southern-indian-ocean
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Mar 15, 2014 12:39
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WastedJoker posted:I think the authorities are forcing a narrative to fit the limited evidence - it already smacks of a covering asses job. I'm really surprised how quick the Malay government went to the pirated 777 theory so I still wanna stick to the Malaysia are trolling the world theory
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Mar 15, 2014 12:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFU_19ujU-M
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Mar 15, 2014 12:41
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Al-Saqr posted:just to illustrate how incredible this feat would be if it's even %1 true:- Holy gently caress, last thing I expected when I woke up. I thought it could have gone to Pakistan or something but all the way up there is crazy. It's especially insane now that it's got to be in a hangar somewhere and no ones taken responsibility... This ain't over yet
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Mar 15, 2014 12:44
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It's almost impossible to hijack in the classical way (which is, get up from your seat, yell at people and storm into the cockpit) nowadays right? I've read somewhere that since 9/11, pilots have to lock themselves in their cockpit. So unless the pilot leaves the cockpit's door broad opened because he doesn't give a drat and/or invited someone in, there are no other possibilities (yes, it's obvious). I mean, I'm not even surprised how lax many pilots are. But then again, the hijackers can't be always sure if this time the pilots would let the door nicely opened.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:51
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I dismissed collaborative terrorism because no one has owned up. However, if I was part of that group, I would wait and see if I could get away with it. Furthermore, the media/investigators have released a "what not to do ammendum" for the next attempt. Bragging about it would also have fbi/asio etc on my arse preventing further hijacks.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:51
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 I think this is where they're getting the Kyrgyz/Chinese border thing from. The last ping was sent from somewhere on this red line. I'm presuming those Malaysian officials have some extra information which leads them to believe it's on the northern line and not the southern one.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:53
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my dad works at nintendo and he told me that they flew to an island with an active volcano and theres a secret base that looks like a skull built into the side of the volcano and the skull mouth opens and a runway comes out of it and they landed on that.
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Mar 15, 2014 12:54
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The Biscuit posted:I dismissed collaborative terrorism because no one has owned up. Terrorists would claim responsibility if they'd accomplished their goal of crashing the airplane/killing innocents. But... What if they haven't finished? You wouldn't want to give away the endgame and claim responsibility if there's still more to come. If the pilot (the original crew, or "new" pilot) simply wanted to kill himself and everyone onboard, why fly for more than 7 hours after you have control of the aircraft? More specifically, why follow a route if it doesn't lead anywhere special or important? You're not going to bother following navigational aids if you don't care where you navigate to. The frightening thing is - what if you DO care where you're going and how you get there? Basically: 1 - Who? 2 - Why? 3 - What next?
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Mar 15, 2014 12:58
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Maybe the pilots are the terrorists? Might explain how the technical stuff was done. Wasn't one of the pilots already under investigation for letting someone in the cockpit?
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Mar 15, 2014 13:12
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WastedJoker posted:Maybe the pilots are the terrorists? Might explain how the technical stuff was done. Yes, that's why some of the investigators are running with the jizz angle.
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Mar 15, 2014 13:14
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Rupert Murdoch tweeted last Sunday that it was Jihadists and that's what I continue to believe. You don't get as rich as he does selling half-truths and baseless snap judgements.
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Mar 15, 2014 13:26
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If the crew disabled the cabin GPS display, the passengers may have been unaware of their situation right up until that 8:11am point if indeed they were travelling west where sunrise was later. And perhaps that erratic ascent/descent over the Gulf of Thailand was done to mask the change in direction to the south under the guise of turbulence.
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Mar 15, 2014 13:30
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Rashaverak posted:*snip* Terrorists would claim responsibility if they'd accomplished their goal of crashing the airplane/killing innocents. */snip* This a fallacy I've seen repeated around here. Terrorists often don't claim their activities - http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._for_their.html
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Mar 15, 2014 13:35
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With the new information released today, I don't even know what the gently caress to think anymore. I was really resistant to the idea that it was hijacked but now I guess anything is equally possible to anything else. I still reject the notion that a terrorist group hijacked it to reuse it later though, and even if they tried they'd get found out.
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Mar 15, 2014 13:55
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Imagine if it was hijacked and landed successfully.....what would they have done to those people.
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Mar 15, 2014 13:57
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WastedJoker posted:Imagine if it was hijacked and landed successfully.....what would they have done to those people. If the aircraft really did ascend to above its normal operational ceiling on purpose, the people might have been dead or incapacitated when they landed due to hypoxia. The masks would have deployed however (unless the pilot could switch that off? Can pilots switch off safety mechanisms?), so I'd still expect at least one passenger to text a family member about the situation or something if that was the case.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:00
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they're all dead i saw it in the flames
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Mar 15, 2014 14:01
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Does climbing above max altitude really lead to depressurization? I thought it just caused a stall.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:04
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Sinjang posted:Does climbing above max altitude really lead to depressurization? I thought it just caused a stall. Well, I assume that cabin pressure systems are only made to work at the maximum flight ceiling. I don't know exactly how they work, but I'd assume that they would not be able to keep cabin pressure above that maximum rated limit.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:08
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Al Borland posted:What a surprise CNN isn't carrying something relatively important. Instead they'd rather talk about dresses. CNN International is run independently from CNN and is slightly less poo poo as they are a true 24/7 international network.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:14
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In any case, it seems they were quickly back down to 23,000 feet while either still in the Gulf or while crossing the peninsula. Climbing doesn't seem like a sure way to disable everybody on the plane, which is why I'm suggesting the crew made up some excuse about climbing to escape turbulence in order to mask the sharp westward turn they made. It would be easier to control passengers ignorant of the situation than passengers who know there's a crisis going on.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:17
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What if the plane itself was the terrorist? It somehow became sentient, radicalized, and bent on destroying the West.
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Mar 15, 2014 14:22
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