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This picture kind of pissed me off. A modernized (and maybe ruggedized) version of this thing would be so goddamn useful. It'd cost like five grand and would actually work. Instead, ladies and gentlemen I give you the severely hampered capabilities of army rotary wing and the F-35.
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Mar 26, 2014 00:31
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And it would have 1/10 the survivability of the A-10, which is already a pretty low mark.
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Mar 26, 2014 00:33
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How is Army rotary wing hampered?
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Mar 26, 2014 00:38
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Godholio posted:And it would have 1/10 the survivability of the A-10, which is already a pretty low mark. surely America's aeronautical engineers can come up with a reasonably survivable light attack aircraft design. Mortabis posted:How is Army rotary wing hampered? By the helicopters
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Mar 26, 2014 00:41
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bewbies posted:surely America's aeronautical engineers can come up with a reasonably survivable light attack aircraft design. How? The best things for survivability are speed and altitude, which are exactly the opposite of light and attack. Triple redundant systems aren't much use when all three of your tails get blown off. If you want to be low and slow, you probably have to go drone/disposable, and hope to improve the sensory capability so you have enough situational awareness to not fratricide enough to get on the news much. Slo-Tek fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 00:48
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BIG HEADLINE posted:The best thing? There's an existing precedent for compensating those injured in UK unconventional weapons tests, but they still told the above to gently caress off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Maddison#Second_inquest Wikipedia posted:The Ministry of Defence delivered Ronald Maddison's body in a steel coffin with the lid bolted down to maintain secrecy.[9] A large number of samples of body parts including brain and spinal cord tissue, skin, muscle, stomach, lung, and gut were retained without his family's knowledge and used over several years in other toxicology experiments.[6] Maddison's father, John Maddison, was paid £40 to cover the funeral expenses, made up of £20 for black clothes, £16 for undertaker's fees and £4 for catering.[8] Good lord.
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Mar 26, 2014 00:59
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Slo-Tek posted:How? The best things for survivability are speed and altitude This is completely incorrect, at least against modern air defense systems. The easiest things to detect and engage are large, fast targets at altitude. Low, slow, small targets are far more difficult both to detect and defeat; this is why the US military is so concerned about tactical UAS right now.
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Mar 26, 2014 01:03
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Now I'm no expert but I feel pretty confident that this dude: is not going to be shooting at any high flying fast moving aircraft.
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Mar 26, 2014 01:07
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bewbies posted:This picture kind of pissed me off. A modernized (and maybe ruggedized) version of this thing would be so goddamn useful. It'd cost like five grand and would actually work. Dead Reckoning posted:I can't wait to go to war in the very best the 1950s had to offer. Seriously, the T-37 is rear end in a lot of ways that simply cannot be fixed without going to a brand new design. For example, the throttle response was so awful that a set of bleed valves were installed which allowed the pilot to reduce thrust on approach by bleeding engine pressure, because it would take too long for the engines to spool up in the event of a go-around. bewbies posted:This is completely incorrect, at least against modern air defense systems. The easiest things to detect and engage are large, fast targets at altitude. Low, slow, small targets are far more difficult both to detect and defeat; this is why the US military is so concerned about tactical UAS right now. Anyone rocking double digit SAM systems is also going to have either the SHORAD capability or fighters to gently caress up a light, cheap attack plane.
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Mar 26, 2014 01:11
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bewbies posted:This picture kind of pissed me off. A modernized (and maybe ruggedized) version of this thing would be so goddamn useful. It'd cost like five grand and would actually work. Instead, ladies and gentlemen I give you the severely hampered capabilities of army rotary wing and the F-35. The time to get those would've been about a decade ago. They needed to be fast tracked under some sort of Big Safari-ish type program where you give an O-6 and a small staff money and a desired end goal within 12 months and let them go execute. Trying to do things through the traditional procurement channels led to the complete waste of time and money that was LAAR/LAS. I agree that a Super T type aircraft (like Dead Reckoning said the A-37 specifically was kind of rear end because of overall issues with the Tweet platform) would be pretty useful in a niche capacity...RPAs are great for about 85% of what a platform like that could do, but just like how U-28/MC-12-style manned ISR has a role that isn't 100% supplanted by Reapers, same is true for light attack (less so in a straight up pop-centric COIN fight with relatively large troop formations, more towards support for small numbers of SOF, like what we're going to be doing in various corners of the world for a while). Unfortunately niche roles can't exist in today's budgetary environment...SOCOM/AFSOC are having difficulty just with recapitalizing their existing aviation capes (various flavors of Herks with AFSOC, helos with everyone else), rolling out a completely new platform isn't really a thing that's possible any time in the near future. And yeah, any platform like this would strictly be permissive air only because anyone with a semi-functioning air defense system would blow it out of the sky...like I said, I'd envision something like that being bought in relatively small numbers for supporting SOF operating outside of a full blown Afghanistan/Iraq style combat zone. Unfortunately "small numbers"/"dedicated SOF support" is like the definition of a niche capability, and given that we are having to choose between shitcanning the entire A-10 fleet, the entire Bone fleet, or "only" a third of the Vipers, niche really isn't in our budget right now. bewbies posted:By the helicopters lol it's funny cuz it's true.
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Mar 26, 2014 01:19
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Other fun Tweet facts: -The T-37's ground clearance is so low that untied shoelaces are a FOD hazard. Fortunately, the first stage compressor blades are as thick as your thumb, so it's not as big a deal. -The air conditioning unit is outperformed by the one found in a modern desktop computer. The fact that we then turned around and sold it to South Vietnam indicates that the USAF of the time were either sadists or expressing an unconscious desire for the Vietnam War to fail. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 01:25
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Dead Reckoning posted:-The air conditioning unit is outperformed by the one found in a modern desktop computer. The fact that we then turned around and sold it to South Vietnam indicates that the USAF of the time were either sadists or expressing an unconscious desire for the Vietnam War to fail. You know, you could really make that argument for a lot of things we sold the VNAF.
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Mar 26, 2014 01:39
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Dead Reckoning posted:USAF of the time were either sadists or expressing an unconscious desire for the Vietnam War to fail. First branch to adopt the M16. 
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Mar 26, 2014 01:40
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bewbies posted:surely America's aeronautical engineers can come up with a reasonably survivable light attack aircraft design.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:09
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^^^ lol if you think that's survivable.iyaayas01 posted:I'd envision something like that being bought in relatively small numbers for supporting SOF operating outside of a full blown Afghanistan/Iraq style combat zone. Unfortunately "small numbers"/"dedicated SOF support" is like the definition of a niche capability, and given that we are having to choose between shitcanning the entire A-10 fleet, the entire Bone fleet, or "only" a third of the Vipers, niche really isn't in our budget right now.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:12
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A bunch of really pissed off autonomous quadcopters
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Mar 26, 2014 04:35
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Bunch of noobs up in here. What you need is a multi-service, multi-role low-observable 5th generation jet fighter that would be equally at home operating from an air force base, aircraft carrier, or improvised runway at a FOB. With commonality across the services, training, maintenance and operating expenses will be reduced by at least a factor of 20 compared to current aircraft platforms. This jet is also future ready, with the capability to mount laser-based weaponry. The low observable stealth characteristics will allow the same jet to knock down the door on day one, fly CAS on day two, and loiter and patrol on day three. If you are interested, please contact me at movax@lockheedmartin.com e: I really couldn't keep a straight face after the first 20 words or so, but I tried.
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Mar 26, 2014 04:59
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movax posted:Bunch of noobs up in here. What you need is a multi-service, multi-role low-observable 5th generation jet fighter that would be equally at home operating from an air force base, aircraft carrier, or improvised runway at a FOB. With commonality across the services, training, maintenance and operating expenses will be reduced by at least a factor of 20 compared to current aircraft platforms. This jet is also future ready, with the capability to mount laser-based weaponry. The low observable stealth characteristics will allow the same jet to knock down the door on day one, fly CAS on day two, and loiter and patrol on day three. I was momentarily concerned that Grover had somehow gotten his mod star back.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:01
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Since y'all love the F-35: http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140304/DEFREG02/303040039/US-Navy-Budget-Takes-Bite-Out-Aircraft-Weapons Mostly the interesting bits are about killing the Tomahawk but there's also this: quote:The aircraft accounts show more severe reductions. While procurement of the short-takeoff or vertical launch F-35B Joint Strike Fighter for the Marine Corps holds at previous levels, buys for the F-35C carrier variant were slashed, dropping from last year’s plan to buy 49 from 2015 to 2018 to 20. Is that even two carriers worth of airframes?
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Mar 26, 2014 05:05
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Are there missing zeroes? IIRC even 49 isn't one CAW.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:06
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It's certainly not an entire air wing. I'm thinking it's pretty light just for putting one squadron each on two decks.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:12
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A single VFA squadron is 10-14ish aircraft. So... two lightweight squadrons.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:17
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movax posted:Bunch of noobs up in here. What you need is a multi-service, multi-role low-observable 5th generation jet fighter that would be equally at home operating from an air force base, aircraft carrier, or improvised runway at a FOB. With commonality across the services, training, maintenance and operating expenses will be reduced by at least a factor of 20 compared to current aircraft platforms. This jet is also future ready, with the capability to mount laser-based weaponry. The low observable stealth characteristics will allow the same jet to knock down the door on day one, fly CAS on day two, and loiter and patrol on day three. Forgot "Possesses next generation EO/IR suite that will render maneuvering irrelevant." Regarding slashing the number of -C's, reading the tea leaves that is the USMC throwing a temper tantrum and getting their way, yet again...NAVAIR probably was told that they were only getting enough money to keep one of the two F-35 variants on track, and since the USMC has insisted, repeatedly and against all reason, that the F-35B WILL declare IOC in July 2015 (with a hamstrung and barely combat capable OFP), NAVAIR's hands were tied. Worth mentioning that the -C is only supposed to replace legacy Hornets right off the bat, with the Super Bugs hanging around for quite a while...most CVW's only have 1-2 squadrons of legacy Hornets, so you're only looking at replacing 12-24 aircraft per CVW. So 20 is one, maybe two CVW's worth of F-35s, if they're only replacing the legacy Hornets. Of course in reality the Navy isn't planning on declaring IOC until 2018-2019ish anyway so those birds would be training/pipeline aircraft to start to continue developing cadre, and I'm sure NAVAIR's plans have a sharp uptick in the amount of -C's bought in the 2018-2019 timeframe.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:19
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The more I read this thread the more I hate the Marine Corps.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:22
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The F-35 has to be one of the very few aircraft whose success makes me sad. I saw an Australian newspaper article talking about the RAAF's future acquisition of the F-35 with pride, and comparing it to the "it's practically a strategic bomber!" (my thoughts, not theirs) F-111 with a straight face. It's like, come on! Eagles and Falcons are sleeker, Gripens and Hornets are cuter, all of the above are cheaper and probably work better at the moment, get those instead! 
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Mar 26, 2014 05:27
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The best close air support is obviously the railgun charges of the verified Only Remaining Naval Gunfire Support Ship, the Zumwalt destroyer.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:38
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hailthefish posted:The more I read this thread the more I hate the Marine Corps.  Davin Valkri posted:The F-35 has to be one of the very few aircraft whose success makes me sad. I saw an Australian newspaper article talking about the RAAF's future acquisition of the F-35 with pride, and comparing it to the "it's practically a strategic bomber!" (my thoughts, not theirs) F-111 with a straight face. It's like, come on! Eagles and Falcons are sleeker, Gripens and Hornets are cuter, all of the above are cheaper and probably work better at the moment, get those instead! I take no joy in the failures of the F-35, because the US has literally put all its tacair eggs in the F-35 basket. At this point I would be ecstatic if the JSF program completely turned around and delivered on each and every one of its promises, while coming in underbudget from this point forward. Also I would also be ecstatic if pigs flew and Mila Kunis was sucking my dick every night. And I do take a little joy in the failures of the F-35, same joy I take in anything the USAF/DoD does that goes poorly. e: Going to make the "which budget are you talking about when you say 'underbudget'?" joke for myself. e2: The ROKAF officially selected the F-35 as the FX-III winner. Glad to see that LockMart's iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 05:40
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Wow, the RAAF is planning on ordering up to 100 F-35As even after getting a bunch of F/A-18Fs? I always had assumed the Aussies had an even more cash starved military than us Canucks but I guess not. Must be all the jewelery stores those Aussie hoodlums are robbing  I'm still holding out hope that one of the other bids (c'mon Rafale!) pans out in the "revamped" competition the RCAF is having. LOL no it'll still be the F-35A regardless.
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Mar 26, 2014 05:57
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iyaayas01 posted:Glad to see that LockMart's This whole thing makes so much more sense when you think about it as the Starfighter II. It's even got the wing loading to make the analogy work!
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Mar 26, 2014 06:03
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Hey, I remember the ROKAF thing! They had an initial bid submission last year where a bunch of jets showed up, and the officers in charge of the committee picked the F-15SE over the competitors, including the F-35, because it was cheaper and played well with the F-15Ks they already had. Then the government went all "The F-15SE is old hat with new makeup, we need a FIFTH-GENERATION FIGHTER for a NEW GENERATION  !"and scrubbed the contract entirely. Then they re-released it with a requirements list that I think straight-up had "must be FIFTH-GENERATION" and the F-35 was the only on the block for that. I think that's when I went from "The F-35 could probably be done better, right?" to "Seriously, what the gently caress, F-35 program?!" It just makes me  . If I ever make a game about air combat in the modern jet age, the F-35 is going to be the equivalent of stuff like the MiG-21 in Ace Combat: used mostly by the enemy and shot down in droves!
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Mar 26, 2014 06:08
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Davin Valkri posted:Hey, I remember the ROKAF thing! They had an initial bid submission last year where a bunch of jets showed up, and the officers in charge of the committee picked the F-15SE over the competitors, including the F-35, because it was cheaper and played well with the F-15Ks they already had. Then the government went all Regardless of bribes, this is an extremely Korean thing to do
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Mar 26, 2014 06:18
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Is anyone going to actually built the F-15SE? I'd love to be able to at least see what it's supposed to look like. edit: 'Silent Eagle' sounds like a bad Steven Segal movie Karl Rove fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Mar 26, 2014 |
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Mar 26, 2014 06:35
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Karl Rove posted:Is anyone going to actually built the F-15SE? I'd love to be able to at least see what it's supposed to look like. Boeing has a flying mockup with the canted out tails and a conformal internal weapons bay converted from a Mud Hen CFT (they've successfully fired an AMRAAM from the bay), but that's it. As for is Boeing going to actually build one, with the full blown RAM treatment, fully developed internal bays, and all the avionics goodies that are supposed to be packaged with it? Signs point to no. The F-15 line is open through 2018 thanks to the massive Saudi order, but I don't see Boeing investing that much more time/effort in the SE project. Of course, most of the avionics goodies are already in development or fielded, just not all in the same package...the new Saudi F-15SAs are getting FBW and the BAE DEWS EW suite (also weapons carriage on Stations 1 and 9), and the various flavors of AESA radars (V3 and APG-82) are in development or already fielded for various customers. So really the biggest investment was going to be the RAM treatment and finishing development of the weapons bays...maybe they'll push a less advanced version, but I just don't see it.
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Mar 26, 2014 07:01
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xthetenth posted:This whole thing makes so much more sense when you think about it as the Starfighter II. It's even got the wing loading to make the analogy work! Doesn't the F-35 have way similar performance to the F-105 Thunderchief? (Well, slightly more bombs but slower  )
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Mar 26, 2014 07:01
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xthetenth posted:This whole thing makes so much more sense when you think about it as the Starfighter II. It's even got the wing loading to make the analogy work! Dear God, with Putin acting like Hitler 2.0, the Luftwaffe may be in the market for a new low level strike fighter. This is gonna happen, isn't it.
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Mar 26, 2014 14:27
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ArchangeI posted:Dear God, with Putin acting like Hitler 2.0, the Luftwaffe may be in the market for a new low level strike fighter. This is gonna happen, isn't it. Speaking of the Putin, apparently he talked with the Argentinian PM about the double standard of self-determination between the Falklands and Crimea. Because, you know, Ukraine invaded the Crimea and took it by force in 1993. Also, there was a B-52 flying around Ellsworth AFB today. Those things are so cool to see. Must have been visiting from Texas.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:13
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Burning Beard posted:Speaking of the Putin, apparently he talked with the Argentinian PM about the double standard of self-determination between the Falklands and Crimea. Because, you know, Ukraine invaded the Crimea and took it by force in 1993. No BUFFs in Texas, either Barksdale in LA or Minot in ND.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:24
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iyaayas01 posted:No BUFFs in Texas, either Barksdale in LA or Minot in ND. Best thing about San Antonio was seeing c5s doing touch and gos all day. I have no idea how those planes stay in the air.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:37
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iyaayas01 posted:No BUFFs in Texas, either Barksdale in LA or Minot in ND. Oops, probably Minot then. One of the very few perks living here, perhaps the only one, is seeing B-1s and occasionally B-52s flying. So cool to hear then see.
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Mar 27, 2014 00:02
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I live two miles from the west gate of Barksdale. As awesome as the BUFF is I look forward to the air show every year to see some fighters. Driving near Tinker on business was an absolute pleasure, getting to watch f-16s do touch and go's.
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Mar 27, 2014 01:28
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