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I think my favorite detail about the Franklin subplot was how he echoed Lecter in exactly the same sort of ways that Lecter was echoing Du Maurier at the time--Just as Franklin would poorly emulate Hannibal's clothing styles and social life, there were the small details of things like Hannibal having more garish ideas of the same sort of living that Du Maurier did, like the living wall for example. And then in both cases the patient was hopeful that they and their therapist could be friends outside of the office (Something you never, ever want to do.) Also, there could be an argument made for the loneliness of both men, desperately seeking friends in this world.
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Mar 28, 2014 03:13
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I see Hannibal as an audience stand-in figure. He's a super aware being that's also ultimately removed from what's happening, aside from a certain degree of amused interest. Just like the audience he forms attachments to some characters, although those can be fickle, and gets pleasure from the suffering of others. I mean, let's be honest, part of the reason we watch the show is for the beautifully gory visuals. Just like the audience, Hannibal is a connoisseur of the grotesque. If you want to know Hannibal's motivations, ask yourself what your motivations are in seeing dozens of people get butchered.
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Mar 28, 2014 03:39
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Nice little teaser photo released today;
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Mar 28, 2014 04:27
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SoroScrew
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Assuming they get the rights, how do you think they're going to tackle the Clarice Starling storyline? Certainly Crawford isn't going to make the same mistake of knowingly sending ANOTHER rookie agent to the Chesapeake Ripper. On that note, as a non book reader, I've always wondered what it was about Clarice that sparked interest in Hannibal. Certainly she's a smart and capable federal agent, but Hannibal has dealt with many intelligent agents in the field before. I don't think it's because she shared her story of the lambs either because frankly Hannibal is no stranger to misery and it was he who prompted the game of quid pro quo to begin with, indicating that he had some interest in her beforehand and desired to know more. Is it because he just thinks she's hot? I'm curious to see how the show will go into that seeing as Mads seems to play Hannibal as an asexual force of nature lacking any real sexual desires or interests.
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Mar 28, 2014 04:41
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Just all this discussion about the nature of the character of Hannibal really makes me appreciate just how much a virtuoso acting performance can truly elevate a show, make it transcend itself and become more than the sum of its parts. I just have a hard time imagining this show with anyone else in the lead role - without Mads' presence, charisma, physicality, and personality centering the show and filling out the frame, I really don't think it would work. That article that was quoted at the end of the last page makes a very good point about his eyes. I don't know what it is, but Mads is able to pull off his own totally originally take on the Kubrickian "thousand yard stare". He just does this thing (I mostly recall it in sessions he had with Du Maurier) where his face is just utterly motionless and expressionless, and his eyes are just these deep black pools reflecting some sort of emptiness. I can't quite articulate what I mean, I just feel like there's something really special and interesting and different about how this character is being approached from an acting standpoint
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Mar 28, 2014 04:54
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Choco1980 posted:I think my favorite detail about the Franklin subplot was how he echoed Lecter in exactly the same sort of ways that Lecter was echoing Du Maurier at the time--Just as Franklin would poorly emulate Hannibal's clothing styles and social life, there were the small details of things like Hannibal having more garish ideas of the same sort of living that Du Maurier did, like the living wall for example. And then in both cases the patient was hopeful that they and their therapist could be friends outside of the office (Something you never, ever want to do.) Also, there could be an argument made for the loneliness of both men, desperately seeking friends in this world. There was also the fact that everyone expected him to end up in Hannibal's storage locker.
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Mar 28, 2014 04:57
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I just assumed that Hannibal liked Clarice because she talked with Hannibal as a human being and consultant on a case rather than an obstacle in her way or a caged freak. That, and the other people Jack sent in to talk to Hannibal were more like tools of Jack Crawford than people with any real interest in the case. Hannibal didn't want to help Crawford out, but he'd help Clarice Starling because he liked her. That's why he didn't send Jack's people to Gumb's house. He sent them out on a wild goose chase so Starling could catch the killer all by herself and be a hero. Basically, Clarice got around Hannibal's defenses because she was a good person and not a bureaucrat or "stuffed shirt" who didn't respect Hannibal.
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Mar 28, 2014 04:57
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I think there was also a measure of boredom for Hannibal, after Will left the only person he could really talk to for a long period of time was Barney. Given that Jack sends her in and she is so clearly out of her depth (nothing against her personally, but she's a trainee after all) she must have also been fascinating. I think his interest in her starts off as a bored Hannibal wondering just what the hell Jack is up to, and then he comes to appreciate her in her own right (so far as Hannibal can appreciate anybody).
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Mar 28, 2014 05:03
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ShirtPunch has two more Hannibal designs for today's shirts:  Not sure if I'd actually wear these ones, but they made me chuckle.
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Mar 28, 2014 05:18
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I burned through season 1 over like 2 days, and am now caught up with season 2. How is this show on NBC? It's way too good (and gory?) for network television.
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Mar 28, 2014 05:26
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True, when you put it in that context I can see why he would open up to Clarice. She's a great character, my favorite scene in SOTL is her commanding a group of chatting police officers to leave the room so she could conduct a respectful autopsy on a Buffalo Bill victim and they all look at her like she took a dump right in the middle of the floor. As a character she really had a lot to say about sexism in the workplace, especially in male-dominated careers like the police force. If that had been a male FBI agent demanding them to leave they would have cleared out in a heartbeat, and respectfully, but because it was a female barking orders she was just a bitch. It's gonna be fun to contrast that unspoken, implicit sexist dynamic of 20 years ago with today's frenzied rush to defend the killed off Beverly Katz; a movement totally not asked for, even by Hetienne Park.
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Mar 28, 2014 06:44
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Carbon Thief posted:ShirtPunch has two more Hannibal designs for today's shirts: I wouldn't wear them, but I would definitely buy those cereal brands.
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Mar 28, 2014 06:45
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Carbon Thief posted:ShirtPunch has two more Hannibal designs for today's shirts: Ahaha these are cute. Will is so manically enthusiastic about his cereal  What's the second marshmallow thing supposed to be though?
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Mar 28, 2014 08:12
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Prism Mirror Lens posted:Ahaha these are cute. Will is so manically enthusiastic about his cereal It's a mouth mask/guard like Hannibal wears in the movie.
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Mar 28, 2014 08:57
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escape artist posted:It is the benchmark for terrible television. Like I said, even if the entire writing staff was malevolent, and their whole goal was to piss off viewers, they still couldn't have orchestrated a catastrophe so perfectly. It's fascinating. The absolutely best thing about Dexter was that the final season was just so utterly godawful that after a couple of episodes, when the shock of how bad it was had begun to wear off, goons stopped being bored by how stupid it was and started to get angry. The last half of the final season was some of the best TV I ever watched simply because we were all hate-watching it at that point. It was magical   Some kind of forcefield!
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Mar 28, 2014 11:33
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Full Fathoms Five posted:Will pilfers his closet and shows up every day to interview him in his own suits. Not going to lie, had to look up pocket squares. Always thought they were handkerchiefs. Never worn a suit in my life, no intention of doing so. But Hannibal's are pimpin, pocket squares too.
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Mar 28, 2014 12:00
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Gorilla Salad posted:
That moment was loving great. But the hardest I laughed was the last few scenes of the series finale. As soon as Dexter left the hospital to get on his boat, to the final lumberjack scene I could not stop laughing. Just... the melodramatic green screen storm on the boat, Dexter monologuing, Hannah and Harrison, lumberjack out of nowhere. It was the worst of all possible conclusions to an overall horrible series.
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Mar 28, 2014 14:57
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marktheando posted:Hahaha, so stupid. Except the incest thing almost makes sense- always thought those two had really bad brother/sister chemistry (always funny when an actor clearly fancies his tv sister). Was not surprised to hear the actors were a couple in real life. For even more awkward acting go to Modern Family where the kid who plays Manny has just hit puberty at full speed and has to do scenes with his "mom", Sofia Vergara who is wearing extremely low cut tops. Such awkward eyelines. I don't blame the kid in the slightest but since they are supposed to be mother and son, awkward
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Mar 28, 2014 15:12
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So what was the general consensus regarding Hannibal's coin toss? Was he merely doing it out of a sense of irony or did he leave it up to chance? I noticed this exchange between Bella and Hannibal at the start of the episode. Bella: quote:Lazarus had it good. My social circle doesn't include someone with power over death It makes me lean towards Hannibal deciding to bring her back (Let's see if she dies in 4 days) as that would make him the 'friend' (God / Jesus) with the power over death.
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Mar 28, 2014 15:21
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Catsplosion posted:So what was the general consensus regarding Hannibal's coin toss? Was he merely doing it out of a sense of irony or did he leave it up to chance? It was just being discussed a couple of pages ago. I believe most of us are of the impression that Hannibal could've gone either way. The irony of using the coin to determine her life/death outcome is just great writing. However, cases could be made that Hannibal could've said gently caress it to whatever the coin said so he could have his preferred outcome. Another sign of good writing.
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Mar 28, 2014 15:50
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Catsplosion posted:So what was the general consensus regarding Hannibal's coin toss? Was he merely doing it out of a sense of irony or did he leave it up to chance? Seems like most people agree he was actually using the coin toss to make some sort of decision there, but there are differing opinions on what exactly the other alternative was. The options are let her die right there in his office and deal with the consequences, or "save" her life but keep her locked up and torture Jack Miriam Lass-style. Personally I think the latter is more likely because I see Jack as the focus of all this, and sending him a piece of Bella would be much much worse on him than if she just died without him there. In fact I think Hannibal probably agrees with Bella that a quick death without Jack there to witness it would be the best thing for both of them. That's why he can't allow it.
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Mar 28, 2014 15:59
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I took it to mean that Hannibal had gotten what he wanted out of her (establishing a trusting relationship with Jack) and at that point she didn't interest him as a victim, an instrument or a friend, so he left it up to fate. It's especially cruel, since we never really see Hannibal doing anything without an ulterior motive.
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Mar 28, 2014 16:00
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I originally caught this series about halfway through season 1, and have only just begun to catch up the first season. It looks like there's a Clarice Starling cameo in episode 2, where Will's just finished giving his lecture on Garrett Jacob Hobbs and Alana or Jack comes up to talk to him; as they begin their conversation one of the FBI students comes up behind Will and stands for about two seconds like she'd love to talk to him but doesn't want to interrupt, then walks away. Her hair and poise is very similar to a young Jodie Foster, and she's center frame for just a little too long for it to be accidental.
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Mar 28, 2014 16:30
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One Swell Foop posted:I originally caught this series about halfway through season 1, and have only just begun to catch up the first season. Any other show I'd disagree with you hardcore. This show? I believe it.
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Mar 28, 2014 16:57
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With all this talk about the coin flip, I noticed something while rewatching this season's third episode: During Will's trial, when Chilton is on the stand, he says (paraphrased) about Will "He likes to play God, saving lives is as exciting as ending them". Considering that at this point everyone is trying to unknowingly force their description of Hannibal onto Will, I think it reinforces what some have said about Hannibal flipping the coin because he considered both outcomes equal.
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Mar 28, 2014 17:12
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Snak posted:With all this talk about the coin flip, I noticed something while rewatching this season's third episode: During Will's trial, when Chilton is on the stand, he says (paraphrased) about Will "He likes to play God, saving lives is as exciting as ending them". Considering that at this point everyone is trying to unknowingly force their description of Hannibal onto Will, I think it reinforces what some have said about Hannibal flipping the coin because he considered both outcomes equal. Yeah, the arousing quote we saw on twitter a few days ago. Man, Chilton is such a ham. I'm so glad he survived. One can grow to love beets. And that student was focused on for a few seconds, Will's shuffling some papers, she looks at him, at the papers, back up, walks a few inches away, stares forlornly at a student, kinda mills around, then Alana finally makes it there. It's either an over-established establishing shot of the class, or a loooovely detail that makes me go even more crazy about Fuller. And I never was angry about the coin flip, just trying to reconcile an unspoken concept with his very detailed actions. I kind of want to lean towards either option being 'good enough' for Hannibal, hence the coin flip.
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Mar 28, 2014 17:30
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Instead of continuously chasing our tails and repeating ourselves about the goddamn coinflip, I'd like to hear some people's opinion of the themes brought out by the beekeper. How easing pain or removing disease can be a worse fate than simply accepting it. This obviously seque's into Bella's struggles, but I think it's still important on its own. I think it says a lot that her victims were elderly men. The one that survived had been suffering from his symptoms for the lion's share of is life and was now "better", he had lived a long life dealing with things, and now was a vegetable when others took his pain away. As this is clearly seen as the worst option, is the show trying to tell us we need to holding on to our pain, eschewing the cost our treatments have, saying we might not realize how often we're making ourselves worse? Funny enough I'm personally in this fix. Last week I had some minor surgery and they had to give me heavy duty pain killers. By two days later I had to quit because of how much the narcotics affected me psychologically. I didn't start to feel clear headed until 4 days later. Right now I'm still in quite a bit of pain, but my mind is clear, and I'd rather that balance than the other.
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Mar 28, 2014 17:58
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Hannibal made the semi-finals. Now up against Community http://www.hulu.com/bestinshow?round=3 This should be a no-brainer Looks like the finals will likely be Hannibal against Game of Thrones.
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Mar 28, 2014 18:18
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So this is the big one, that Fuller has been hyping up?
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Mar 28, 2014 18:33
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Choco1980 posted:Instead of continuously chasing our tails and repeating ourselves about the goddamn coinflip, I'd like to hear some people's opinion of the themes brought out by the beekeper. How easing pain or removing disease can be a worse fate than simply accepting it. This obviously seque's into Bella's struggles, but I think it's still important on its own. I think it says a lot that her victims were elderly men. The one that survived had been suffering from his symptoms for the lion's share of is life and was now "better", he had lived a long life dealing with things, and now was a vegetable when others took his pain away. As this is clearly seen as the worst option, is the show trying to tell us we need to holding on to our pain, eschewing the cost our treatments have, saying we might not realize how often we're making ourselves worse? Funny enough I'm personally in this fix. Last week I had some minor surgery and they had to give me heavy duty pain killers. By two days later I had to quit because of how much the narcotics affected me psychologically. I didn't start to feel clear headed until 4 days later. Right now I'm still in quite a bit of pain, but my mind is clear, and I'd rather that balance than the other. I though it was more to compare the issue of choice and who is making it. The two elderly gentlemen apparently had long suffering issues, and depending on the quality of life and nature of their illness's (i.e is it going to kill them in a few month anyway) its possible they might logically make the choice to end their own life, but their not given the choice, the beekeeper makes it for them, something she had absolutely no right to do. you get the inverse with Bella/Hannibal. Bella made a very informed decision about her life. She had only a set time left to live, she was weakened and in pain due, she had, had prior experience with how her last weeks dying from cancer would effect her self, and her loved ones, and she had thought about the decision at length with a clear state of mind at length. She had made a firm decision of what she wanted and was following through with it. Hanniable like the bee lady subverted that choice. Even though one chose to give life and one chose to give death, they both committed the same sin of deliberately robbing another person of the most fundamental choice they have, to be alive or bee dead. Which sort of gets back to the coin flip... er sorry about that. Anyway to sum up; playing god is usually a dick move.
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Mar 28, 2014 19:00
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Fooz posted:So this is the big one, that Fuller has been hyping up? Yuuup. 
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Mar 28, 2014 19:07
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Regarding the last episode I'm pretty convinced that Miriam Lass is alive but would rather not be. I get the feeling the scenario is something like this.
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Mar 28, 2014 19:11
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Toadsniff posted:Regarding the last episode I'm pretty convinced that Miriam Lass is alive but would rather not be. I get the feeling the scenario is something like this. Oh yea, I'm sure if she's alive its not going to be pretty.
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Mar 28, 2014 19:14
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Miriam Lass has spent the last 5 years trapped in a anime.
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Mar 28, 2014 19:14
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Truly a fate worse than death.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:03
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Choco1980 posted:Instead of continuously chasing our tails and repeating ourselves about the goddamn coinflip, I'd like to hear some people's opinion of the themes brought out by the beekeper. How easing pain or removing disease can be a worse fate than simply accepting it. This obviously seque's into Bella's struggles, but I think it's still important on its own. I think it says a lot that her victims were elderly men. The one that survived had been suffering from his symptoms for the lion's share of is life and was now "better", he had lived a long life dealing with things, and now was a vegetable when others took his pain away. As this is clearly seen as the worst option, is the show trying to tell us we need to holding on to our pain, eschewing the cost our treatments have, saying we might not realize how often we're making ourselves worse? Funny enough I'm personally in this fix. Last week I had some minor surgery and they had to give me heavy duty pain killers. By two days later I had to quit because of how much the narcotics affected me psychologically. I didn't start to feel clear headed until 4 days later. Right now I'm still in quite a bit of pain, but my mind is clear, and I'd rather that balance than the other. I don't know...I've been in the same situation as Bella in that I watched my mother die of cancer and told myself that if I should get cancer and it metastasized to an irremediable point, I'm killing myself to spare my loved ones the agony of having to watch me suffer. She was in terrible pain, and we were in terrible pain watching her; it was two years ago and the trauma of witnessing her die like that is still with me. I can't fault anyone who is chronically ill and is trying to escape that suffering in any way, whether it be through mind-altering medication or suicide. BUT, the Beekeeper made that decision FOR her patients -- they didn't come to her for her help with euthanasia. That's a big deal.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:14
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quote:bee lady zoux posted:Yuuup. poo poo, I'm getting some kratom in tomorrow. I'll save the episode for then- I promise I'll gif tomorrow, it'll just be circa noon central US time. Like.. it matters... but I'm OCD. Also; %48 community, %52 Hannibal. gently caress. Yes. And poor youknowwho, that breathing in the loving basement. I didn't catch it the first time and my goddamn eyes lit up like gently caress the second time around- thanks to the thread for bringing that to people's attention. Ugh. This show, this show, this show.  Rabbit Hill posted:I don't know...I've been in the same situation as Bella in that I watched my mother die of cancer and told myself that if I should get cancer and it metastasized to an irremediable point, I'm killing myself to spare my loved ones the agony of having to watch me suffer. She was in terrible pain, and we were in terrible pain watching her; it was two years ago and the trauma of witnessing her die like that is still with me. I can't fault anyone who is chronically ill and is trying to escape that suffering in any way, whether it be through mind-altering medication or suicide. Paradox Personified fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Mar 28, 2014 |
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Mar 28, 2014 20:23
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Toadsniff posted:Regarding the last episode I'm pretty convinced that Miriam Lass is alive but would rather not be. I get the feeling the scenario is something like this. It was already revealed that she is alive last season - quite blatantly. You can't just cut off an arm and have it look fresh years later by keeping it in a freezer.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:49
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Actually, with the Super Food Saver Food Vacuum Sealing System from RonCo, you can!
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Mar 28, 2014 20:53
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I was really hoping to see a DeWalt bandsaw commercial or something after it showed Hannibal with the muralists leg.
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Mar 28, 2014 20:56
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