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Amused to Death posted:That is less than encouraging. Although every time he makes a new statement, Erdogan sounds even more cartoonish for some reason. Muffiner posted:There is a disturbing amount of pro-Ardogan sentiment among most anti-regime Syrians right now. A lot of 'he is such a great leader' posts on Facebook. Turkey (and probably Ardogan on a personal level) has been the most sympathetic country when it comes to Syrian refugees. All of Syria's Arab neighbors have been absolutely atrocious when it comes to dealing with Syrians who have been forced out of their homes, so the contrast between the two is very evident. What surprises me is how everybody has simply overlooked all of Ardogan's autocratic and corrupt practices, when it is a similar mindset of impunity in Turkey now that lead to the events we see happening today in Syria. Speaking of refugees, lately there's been a problem with supposedly roaming Syrian gangs assaulting people here in Beirut. The amount of people living on the streets has become pretty ridiculous as well, so yeah "atrocious" is an apt description.
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Mar 31, 2014 14:14
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Muffiner posted:There is a disturbing amount of pro-Ardogan sentiment among most anti-regime Syrians right now. A lot of 'he is such a great leader' posts on Facebook. Turkey (and probably Ardogan on a personal level) has been the most sympathetic country when it comes to Syrian refugees. All of Syria's Arab neighbors have been absolutely atrocious when it comes to dealing with Syrians who have been forced out of their homes, so the contrast between the two is very evident. What surprises me is how everybody has simply overlooked all of Ardogan's autocratic and corrupt practices, when it is a similar mindset of impunity in Turkey now that lead to the events we see happening today in Syria. Well there was this one hilarious picture from the Gezi Park protests, held up by a Syrian refugee: 
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Mar 31, 2014 14:29
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Lots of Turks on Facebook complaining about dodgyness in the election, here's one examplequote:This picture of ballot receipt from a polling station in Ankara appears to indicate that, at this particular polling station, there were 272 total votes counted, although there were 284 ballots cast. Those numbers should presumably be identical. Further, it indicates that there were 173 valid votes, and 67 invalid votes. 67 + 173 = 240, which is neither 272 nor 284. It also says that there were 185 valid votes for Erdogan's ruling AKP party, which is in the best position to perpetuate election fraud… Even though there were only 173 valid votes total. None of these numbers add up to each other. This is just from one receipt from one polling station in one city.  One other complaint is the envelopes ballot were put into before being put into the ballot box already had another ballot inside it for another part of the election, the inclusion of which would invalidate the vote on the other ballot. Anyone who failed to remove this other ballot would have invalidated their vote, and it was apparently easy to miss, and shouldn't have been in there.
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Mar 31, 2014 16:20
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fspades posted:Ballot counting has stopped abruptly in Ankara just after the CHP candidate Yavas was beginning to close the narrow gap between him and the AKP candidate. Yavas is claiming election fraud in twitter. Watch Erdogan Start A loving War
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Apr 1, 2014 02:49
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The way Erdogan has acted for the past few months make me think he's genuinely begun to lose his grip on reality. Bad times lay ahead for Turkey...
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Apr 1, 2014 02:57
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/31/obama-admin-confirms-we-may-free-israeli-spy-to-save-peace-talks.html I don't care much about Pollard one way or another (though I think he's a traitor), but this seems like a waste. There's zero indication these negotiations are going to lead to anything concrete. Israel's basically saying "accede to our demands or we want even talk to the Palestinians," which doesn't exactly bode well for their willingness to actually negotiate. Xandu fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 03:20
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Israel holds all the cards; they have little reason to negotiate, except to placate people and extract favours from governments. Settlement construction continues, and many see no reason to slow down.
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Apr 1, 2014 03:46
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Xandu posted:http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/31/obama-admin-confirms-we-may-free-israeli-spy-to-save-peace-talks.html Unless these "concessions" are "return to 1967 borders with mutually agreed upon land swaps" then it's a complete non-starter for me. I really hate how the pro-Pollard people keep saying "HE'S THE ONLY PERSON TO SPEND THIS LONG IN PRISON FOR SPYING FOR AN ALLY!!!!!" No, you dipshits, there's no such thing as "spying for an ally" there's just "spying." Pollard was motivated by financial gains more than patriotism for Israel, and it's one of the seedier things in Israeli politics that this greasy fat gently caress is lionized as a hero when his newfound love for Zionism only came about after he was imprisoned.
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Apr 1, 2014 03:53
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I imagine Netanyahu starts talking about Snowden to put pressure on Kerry to free Pollard. 'Why should I keep doing these negotiations if you don't trust me and spy on me? :' But one condition for freeing him should be full Israeli citizenship for everyone in the West Bank, otherwise it is just a punchline to the two state joke.
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Apr 1, 2014 04:02
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What sucks is that generational trends in Israel are tilting to the right, not the left. Regardless of what you feel about the validity of the state, watching 3 generations be continually shot at by literally all your neighbors hardens perceptions. That's how you get Jewish supremacists like Bennett in office. I predict historians in 2100 (assuming we're here) will look at the parallels between Nazi Germany and the state of Israel in the ~2040's and try not to just write IRONY on the page a thousand times.
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Apr 1, 2014 04:11
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So, let's say, for the hell of it, Turkey declares war on Assad's Syria (and possibly ISIS). What happens? Hm. If Turkey takes over Syria, maybe a Kurdistan could be built?
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Apr 1, 2014 04:36
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Warcabbit posted:So, let's say, for the hell of it, Turkey declares war on Assad's Syria (and possibly ISIS). What happens?
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Apr 1, 2014 04:38
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Their metal hand. Turkey could likely knock out the SAA in short order but the ensuing reality would probably make the U.S.-led occupation of Iraq look charitable.
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Apr 1, 2014 06:06
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Warcabbit posted:
You mean completely eradicated, right? Turkey has a terrible track record when it comes to anything Kurdish
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Apr 1, 2014 06:11
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Turkey hasn't succeeded in eradicating the Kurds in a long while, but no, not terribly likely that they'd "let" Kurdistan form barring some really favourable reasons.
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Apr 1, 2014 06:29
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Pimpmust posted:Turkey hasn't succeeded in eradicating the Kurds in a long while, but no, not terribly likely that they'd "let" Kurdistan form barring some really favourable reasons. Them getting all the rest of Syria might make some sort of twisted sense to Edrogan or something.
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Apr 1, 2014 09:50
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I can't find the AQAP video of the Sana'a prison raid. Anyone have a link?
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Apr 1, 2014 11:02
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Evidence that Finnish and other far rightists have indeed been working on the ground in Syria in a limited role: http://translate.google.com/transla...aana-syyriassa/ Here is a video of an Italian fascist delegation's trip to Damascus last year. It provides a fairly candid view of driving around the city, and the fascists meet some top-level government officials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThY0NSa7Mag It's also possible that the SSNP, which maintains relations with European fascist groups, is active on the Latakia as this recent funeral suggests: https://www.facebook.com/pages/European-Solidarity-Front-for-Syria/280123615449307 edit: for more info Double edit: OK, is there an Italian goon around? Here's a picture of Italian fascists having a pro-Assad chat with high school students in their classroom. What? https://www.facebook.com/FronteEuropeoPerLaSiria/photos/a.447776185327064.1073741851.368748019896548/447776255327057/?type=1&theater MothraAttack fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 13:27
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MothraAttack posted:Evidence that Finnish and other far rightists have indeed been working on the ground in Syria in a limited role: Idiocy makes strange bedfellows.
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Apr 1, 2014 13:50
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MothraAttack posted:
There was a picture of a pro regime fighter putting up the SSNP totally-not-a-swastika flag on the recently taken Krak De Chevaliers fortress so they are involved in some high profile battles.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:03
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CeeJee posted:There was a picture of a pro regime fighter putting up the SSNP totally-not-a-swastika flag on the recently taken Krak De Chevaliers fortress so they are involved in some high profile battles. The SSNP was probably the first non-Shabbiha group to take part in the fight on the regime's side, so nothing new here.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:45
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It's been 2 days since the local elections in Turkey but the election in Ankara is still contested by rival candidates. Since yesterday thousands of people supporting the opposition candidate Yavas camped in front of the Supreme Electoral Committe building in Ankara over widespread evidence of electoral fraud. Today, they were dispersed forcefully by the police. CHP has submitted its official objection to the results. Meanwhile, the people of the Kurdish town of Ceylanpinar is also contesting the results and claiming fraud. There AKP won very narrowly against the Kurdish party BDP, and according to statistics there was a 100% participation rate from the populace. After protests, the governor of Ceylanpinar declared a state of emergency and banned all public gatherings and demonstrations for one month. It is reported that Ceylanpinar became an important staging ground for Al Nusra against the Kurdish PYD in Syria since the start of the civil war.
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Apr 1, 2014 17:19
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MothraAttack posted:Evidence that Finnish and other far rightists have indeed been working on the ground in Syria in a limited role: I find this surreal. How can fascists side with muslims/arabs? Does race not matter to them in this case? They also called out US hegemony which I thought was interesting, I didn't know the far right had an issue with that. Strange stuff, thanks for sharing.
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Apr 1, 2014 17:31
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Count Roland posted:I find this surreal. How can fascists side with muslims/arabs? Does race not matter to them in this case? They also called out US hegemony which I thought was interesting, I didn't know the far right had an issue with that.
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Apr 1, 2014 18:02
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Count Roland posted:I find this surreal. How can fascists side with muslims/arabs? Does race not matter to them in this case? They also called out US hegemony which I thought was interesting, I didn't know the far right had an issue with that. It is the most natural thing in the world. Fascism is not a monolith, and many groups know as well as leftists that those who engage in the politics of survival must prioritize. Fascists would agree with those of Batta's enemies who call the US the center of western decadence, and a surrogate for "international Jewry." But sometimes when your enemies are too strong, you must choose weaker enemies. There are young men in Italy who put on motorcycle helmets and stab tourists and immigrants. This sort of outreach will appeal to them.
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Apr 1, 2014 18:40
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Dilkington posted:It is the most natural thing in the world. Fascism is not a monolith, and many groups know as well as leftists that those who engage in the politics of survival must prioritize. Fascists would agree with those of Batta's enemies who call the US the center of western decadence, and a surrogate for "international Jewry." But sometimes when your enemies are too strong, you must choose weaker enemies. There are young men in Italy who put on motorcycle helmets and stab tourists and immigrants. This sort of outreach will appeal to them. I'd just figure they'd prefer the ol' "let both sides get killed in the war" sorta strategy. Their support of Iran and Hezbollah was especially strange, Assad's government is at least secular.
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Apr 1, 2014 19:32
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It sounds like whatever progress was going on with I/P is probably dead now that Abbas signed several agreements to join international agencies. Kerry just canceled his trip. It's ridiculous that Palestine can't have any international presence according to Israel, and if they do they throw a temper tantrum.
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Apr 1, 2014 21:21
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This is the first I've heard of the SSNP, very interesting. Does their membership mostly consist of religious minorities or do they have a decent amount Sunni members as well?Count Roland posted:I find this surreal. How can fascists side with muslims/arabs? Does race not matter to them in this case? They also called out US hegemony which I thought was interesting, I didn't know the far right had an issue with that. Are you serious? The European far right traditionally hates American dominance. Some of them even sympathize with Islam because they perceive it as an enemy of Zionism, Atlanticism and Western decadence, but that's just a handful of people who have really gone off the ideological deep end.
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Apr 1, 2014 21:40
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Phlegmish posted:This is the first I've heard of the SSNP, very interesting. Does their membership mostly consist of religious minorities or do they have a decent amount Sunni members as well? I've heard of sympathies with radical muslims for their anti-zionist stance. I didn't think the far right had any sympathies for the US; but I didn't know enough about them to realize opposition to the US was important enough to mention in that context. I'd expect it to be lower on the list I suppose, but again I'm not familiar with them.
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Apr 1, 2014 21:46
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Zudgemud posted:Fascists are not necessarily racists but nationalists. And while the vast majority of them down there probably thinks brown people are lesser human beings, there are shades of brown and gently caress them Muslims. Eg. Breivik in his manifesto appealed to his crazy racist brethren to ally themselves with Israel, as Muslim immigrants (and Islamofascism, lol) represent a far greater threat to white Christian Europe. That Finnish fascist OTOH would rather stand with Hezbollah in opposition to Zionism (and Islamism, lol again). Extreme right wing does not have a coherent, solid point of view. They're just extremists, tied loosely together by xenophoby and nationalism because they wouldn't fit anywhere else. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Apr 1, 2014 |
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Apr 1, 2014 22:05
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Count Roland posted:I've heard of sympathies with radical muslims for their anti-zionist stance. I didn't think the far right had any sympathies for the US; but I didn't know enough about them to realize opposition to the US was important enough to mention in that context. I'd expect it to be lower on the list I suppose, but again I'm not familiar with them. Right-wing populist parties that are actually successful focus on muslims and immigrants in general and don't care about the US or Israel, or even support them. Geert Wilders is a good example of this. But the traditional far right in continental Europe deeply resents American influence. European media have also been focusing on the fact that some young muslims have left to fight in Syria. To quite a few people, it becomes natural to start cheering for Assad under these circumstances.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:06
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Nenonen posted:Eg. Breivik in his manifesto appealed to his crazy racist brethren to ally themselves with Israel, as Muslim immigrants (and Islamofascism, lol) represent a far greater threat to white Christian Europe. That Finnish fascist OTOH would rather stand with Hezbollah in opposition to Zionism (and Islamism, lol again). White supremacists also supported black separatists in the 50s and 60s in the US but that doesn't magically make them not racist, it just means they get more from being less racist to a certain subgroup.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:09
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Can anyone explain to me why exactly the United States is in prisoner exchange negotiations with Israel, an ally and beneficiary of no-strings attached foreign aid? I mean, what the gently caress, this is supposed to be negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, why is the United States of all countries offering anything to the Israelis during it?
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Apr 1, 2014 22:31
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Who else is going to entice Israel to the table?
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Apr 1, 2014 22:36
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Xandu posted:Who else is going to entice Israel to the table? I don't believe releasing Pollard is going to do any good for the talks, but it'd make Bibi very happy.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:40
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New Division posted:I don't believe releasing Pollard is going to do any good for the talks, but it'd make Bibi very happy. In this case, I don't either, but the concept of the US being involved in the talks isn't that ridiculous.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:42
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computer parts posted:White supremacists also supported black separatists in the 50s and 60s in the US but that doesn't magically make them not racist, it just means they get more from being less racist to a certain subgroup. It's more to do with congruent world views. If the world view of the white supremacist is that foreigners/blacks/Muslims/whatever are vile parasites on their otherwise pure society, a black nationalist who wants to separate blacks and whites because they think it will protect blacks is bizarrely arguing for the same result as the white nationalist wanting to purge white society of non-whites. Their motives are likely quite different, but have both arrived at the same result; racial separation ideology, and are thus uneasy allies. Same thing with anti-Islam European nationalists and right-wing Israelis; the former may hate Jews in their own countries, but have no problem with and may even like a far-off Jewish state that takes a hard-line against unwanted minorities, because it buys into the same xenophobic, anti-minority ideology that they have. Ultra-nationalists have a vicious alternate ideology revolving around racial and ethnic separation that they'd like to propagate everywhere, not just in their home country, and often do not act with as blind of a hatred as they are assumed to. Instead it's a more calculating hatred. Sometimes. Anyway, that's why occasional racist ultra-nationalist support of Israel from Europe is not only not ironic, it should be expected.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:49
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Xandu posted:Who else is going to entice Israel to the table? Threatening to cut support rather than giving them something else? Obama has no spine.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:51
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Sucrose posted:Threatening to cut support rather than giving them something else? Obama has no spine. The headlines write themselves - "Obama Threatening Israel's Security" would be one of the tamer ones. Regardless of the condition of Obama's vertebrae, he's not stupid.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:55
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Deteriorata posted:The headlines write themselves - "Obama Threatening Israel's Security" would be one of the tamer ones. This is one of the few times I wish more Americans were harder nationalists.
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Apr 1, 2014 22:57
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