|
Schwartzcough posted:No, that assessment of Squall is pretty correct. Up until that point all he does is bitch about Rinoa and bitch about being the leader and bitch about this and bitch about that. He exhibits no real compassion for her, and treats her like an annoyance and a burden. Then she goes comatose and SUDDENLY all he can talk about is Rinoa and how he wants to hear her voice and how much he cares and how he'll do anything to make her better. It's totally jarring. Congrats on missing the point, I guess? His entire point before his breakdown, his entire worldview is that he can't bring himself to form attachments, in any respect. Responsibility, leadership, friendship, romance, etc, because he fears loss and rejection, because he's been in that situation before. Several times, in fact, both with his real family (who he never knew) and his adopted family, so he taught himself to keep his distance. The thing is, when leadership and other people are forced upon him, you see gradual cracks forming in his resolve, which he tries to cover up to maintain his image and keep his worldview from collapsing in on itself. Stuff like the scene where "They have to convince Squall just to go save her life" is right in line with that, because he tries to hide his desires and focusing on his duty, thinking it'd be inappropriate to pursue personal wants. The entire point is that he doesn't understand that, in a situation like that, it's appropriate to act selfishly. By the time he breaks down, though, having lost what he had just started forming the first small attachments to is enough to bring his entire philosophy down, and without it, he has no idea what to do and, for the first time of his own volition, he goes off and does something extremely selfish. That's especially striking given the Japanese cultural mindset, but that's another long, dumb wall of text.
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 21:54 |
|
|
Excels posted:Insufferable pricks becoming cool bros later on is a fairly common theme in the "Tales of" series. Every Tales game has at least one Heel Face Turn. Except in the best Tales game, Xilia, where everyone's pretty cool from the beginning. The only real Turn is maybe Alvin? But he's kind of constantly changing because he's unsure about what to do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
Excels posted:But that would hurt the train! Selphie would have felt guilty about it for the rest of the game. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to for the better good. Selphie knows this, and I think she would be able to handle the repercussions. edit: I don't know what game you played where Alvin "maybe" betrayed the party.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
Excels posted:But that would hurt the train! Selphie would have felt guilty about it for the rest of the game. But if you only target the correct car, the locomotive itself should be fine and zoom off unscathed!
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:39
|
|
|
ha ha, jokes about alvin's constant betrayals. i love these, people don't make nearly enough comments about alvin!
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:40
|
|
|
Momomo posted:Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to for the better good. Selphie knows this, and I think she would be able to handle the repercussions. Oh no he definitely did betray him, but the whole Face Heel Turn thing kind of requires them to stay antagonistic, I thought? So Alvin's poo poo can't really be called that because while he IS spying on you, he's also helping you as a double agent and does form genuine bonds with the rest of the party that do eventually win him over and he abandons everything to help you. Though that did require a really terrifying mental breakdown.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:41
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Except in the best Tales game, Xilia, where everyone's pretty cool from the beginning. The only real Turn is maybe Alvin? But he's kind of constantly changing because he's unsure about what to do. The Chimeriad all did a Heel-Face Turn. Temporarily? Sort of? Honestly they just didn't have much left to do by that point. Wingull appearing at the end didn't really make sense. Would have been cooler to have two different Chimeriads at the end for each Story.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
Excels posted:They have to convince Squall just to go save her life. It's actually hilarious. That scene during the parade where she gets attacked by giant stone lizards is amazing. He just stands there while Irivne is all "Squall, jesus, we need to help her right now!" "Eh, I'm sure she'll be fine." All while it pretty much looked like she was literally being torn apart from their point of view.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
Excels posted:ha ha, jokes about alvin's constant betrayals. i love these, people don't make nearly enough comments about alvin! Considering he does it like five times no, they really don't. I don't really blame Alvin for it though, I blame the party for letting him back in every time. If they're dumb enough to believe him, then they kind of deserve it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
Excels posted:The Chimeriad all did a Heel-Face Turn. Temporarily? Sort of? Honestly they just didn't have much left to do by that point. Does something interesting actually happen with them? Last I played, they all just got written out of the plot after a point, and then just get killed off.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Except in the best Tales game, Xilia, where everyone's pretty cool from the beginning. The only real Turn is maybe Alvin? But he's kind of constantly changing because he's unsure about what to do. It was actually (one of) the worst Tales games for me, probably for that reason. The characters weren't interesting in comparison to the ones from other games. That said, I still prefer Tales characterization over most other games.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:45
|
|
|
S-Alpha posted:Congrats on missing the point, I guess? His entire point before his breakdown, his entire worldview is that he can't bring himself to form attachments, in any respect. Responsibility, leadership, friendship, romance, etc, because he fears loss and rejection, because he's been in that situation before. Several times, in fact, both with his real family (who he never knew) and his adopted family, so he taught himself to keep his distance. Oh, I know what they were trying to do with Squall- I just feel that it was handled terribly. Just saying "all those times he acted exactly contrary to his 180 turnabout was because he was intentionally hiding his true feelings!" is still bad storytelling. If all we see the whole game is him rolling his eyes and grinding his teeth whenever he had to be around Rinoa, him completely changing on a dime to a completely love-struck obsessive about her does not feel natural. In that case, they could've made him suddenly be in love with Zell or Seifer and it would've made the same amount of sense.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
S-Alpha posted:Does something interesting actually happen with them? Last I played, they all just got written out of the plot after a point, and then just get killed off. They were kind of like Gaius' Elite Four generals, then a bunch of crazy poo poo happens, and their relevance and rank becomes sort of a moot point. I think Wingull sticks around with Gaius because his honor/loyalty is all he has left. The two remaining Chimeriad just give you some expository dialogue at the church and then gently caress off to wherever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:48
|
|
|
S-Alpha posted:By the time he breaks down, though, having lost what he had just started forming the first small attachments to is enough to bring his entire philosophy down, and without it, he has no idea what to do and, for the first time of his own volition, he goes off and does something extremely selfish. That's especially striking given the Japanese cultural mindset, but that's another long, dumb wall of text. Wait. This is interesting. I've always felt that FF8 and Squall in particular suffered the most out of the Sony-era FF games because of development/localization issues and whatnot mucking up the storyline, but this is the first time I've seen someone interpreting Squall's character development this way. I suppose the different cultural mindset also plays a factor. The most common complaint I've read/heard about was that that Squall's development seemingly came all in a rush via a comatose Rinoa, but reading your post made me realize that maybe the reason it feels so rushed is that initial cracks in his persona are very subtle, far too subtle to survive a mangled localization. I suspect a lot of context, implicit or otherwise, was lost in the translation. It would be interesting to see what a Japanese fan thought of Squall's development.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
PumpkinBat posted:The most common complaint I've read/heard about was that that Squall's development seemingly came all in a rush via a comatose Rinoa, but reading your post made me realize that maybe the reason it feels so rushed is that initial cracks in his persona are very subtle, far too subtle to survive a mangled localization. Well there's also the fact that Squall barely says five words to anyone the whole game (most of his dialogue is internal debate) and then spills his guts to Rinoa after she's all lifeless and can't talk back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:51
|
|
|
Excels posted:They have to convince Squall just to go save her life. It's actually hilarious. He didn't even go to save her intentionally, he got ambushed by a jetpack that taxi'd him there for no reason. And Zell apparently couldn't find a rope or something because he's just watching her as she's about to fall. Honestly, his decision to take care of his responsibilities and assign someone else to help Rinoa was the best part of that whole bit. Shame the plot won't let anyone but Squall save her. Edit: On further reflection, the best part of the Battle of the Gardens was talking about hotdogs over the intercom. Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Apr 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Excels posted:They were kind of like Gaius' Elite Four generals, then a bunch of crazy poo poo happens, and their relevance and rank becomes sort of a moot point. I think Wingull sticks around with Gaius because his honor/loyalty is all he has left. The two remaining Chimeriad just give you some expository dialogue at the church and then gently caress off to wherever. They actually fall off a cliff (one voluntarily). You get some minor sidequest/conversation stuff afterwards and eh. I did like them though, as far as characters go. Nihilarian posted:It's terrible from a love story standpoint, but actually the right decision from an "I'm now the leader and I have responsibilities" standpoint. (You're talking about that bit with Rinoa hanging off the side of Balamb Garden, right?) Even as a 10 year old I was wondering why they couldn't just summon a GF to save her or something. What do you mean you can't use them for non-combat purposes? Which is what made the wedding in X all the more better for me. Finally, someone has the brain to use a summon for actual field/life-saving use.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:30
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Which is what made the wedding in X all the more better for me. Finally, someone has the brain to use a summon for actual field/life-saving use. I like that bit. "I can fly!". No you can't what are you doi- oh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:34
|
|
|
"Believe" is a beautiful song for that FMV where Yuna falls off the ledge. Maybe i should ask this in the Tales thread but is Symphonia a good place to start the franchise? Just, I hear lots of love for Xillia, then someone was like it wasn't so great, and I dunno.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:36
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:"Believe" is a beautiful song for that FMV where Yuna falls off the ledge. Tales of Symphonia is like the FFVII of western Tales fans because its the first big popular 3d one. I personally don't think its particularly great but its not like I didn't finish it at the time. Tales of Symphonia 2 is dreadful don't touch it. Barudak fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Apr 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
I really like that Yuna and her Aeons are considered parts of her character as a whole. So like she uses them in the story, and in Dissidia most of her attacks use various Aeons. It's just nice that they have that story/gameplay relationship. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Excels posted:I really like that Yuna and her Aeons are considered parts of her character as a whole. So like she uses them in the story, and in Dissidia most of her attacks use various Aeons. It's just nice that they have that story/gameplay relationship. Its what makes getting Anima canon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:55
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Even as a10 year old I was wondering why they couldn't just summon a GF to save her or something. What do you mean you can't use them for non-combat purposes? I was happy enough when summons were used outside of battles, which almost never happened... up until IX. Needless to say, my younger self cried tears of joy when Bahamut and Alexander faced off, as brief as that was.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:56
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:"Believe" is a beautiful song for that FMV where Yuna falls off the ledge. Xillia is good, it's just a bit incomplete and rushed. Which is probably why Xillia 2 exists. Tales of Symphonia is alright but I do think a lot of the love it receives has to do with nostalgia than due to it's own merits.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:57
|
|
|
more examples why ffix is the loving bomb itt: Eidolons dukin it out and destroying entire cities on more than two occasions
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 20:57
|
|
|
Didn't Rydia gently caress up like a whole mountain with Titan when Kain was talking about killing her? I can't remember for certain but maybe it was flashier in the DS version. Shame she kinda never shows this level of power again but eh, what can you do. Golbez can tank Meteor to the face with no real harm done so who's to say what Titan could do. The Espers in XII actually have a fair bit of backstory to them. The Occuria weren't just dropped into the game with no foreshadowing or warning. The lore of XII's Ivalice is actually pretty interesting IMO, with the history of the Espers and Occuria. If I could have one summon, give me Zalera. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Apr 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:09
|
|
|
Too bad 12 had a case of the Fabulous Exploding Star Crystals and all the backstory of how the Espers fit into the world at large is hidden in a dumb loving codex inside the bestiary. It's even worse in 12 than in 13 actually, at least in 13 you didn't have to kill 20 Dire Rats to be afforded the privelege of reading some in-game lore about how some old guy probably built Omega Mk. XII or something
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:14
|
|
|
Omega Mk XII is a cool boss and I like the backstory behind it, The Great Crystal can eat a thousand dicks though.
Excels fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Apr 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:20
|
|
|
Excels posted:Omega Mk XII is a cool boss and I like the backstory behind it, The Great Crystal can eat a thousand dicks though. I wish that map was in game. Instead you're just given a picture of a crystal and a 100% worthless "you are here" indicator that doesn't move till you load a new layer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:23
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I wish that map was in game. Instead you're just given a picture of a crystal and a 100% worthless "you are hear" indicator that doesn't move till you load a new layer. Even with a map and FAQ it's a horrible slog, every single area looks exactly the same. If it didn't have sloped exits it would be completely unplayable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
Excels posted:They were kind of like Gaius' Elite Four generals, then a bunch of crazy poo poo happens, and their relevance and rank becomes sort of a moot point. I think Wingull sticks around with Gaius because his honor/loyalty is all he has left. The two remaining Chimeriad just give you some expository dialogue at the church and then gently caress off to wherever. Don't Crazy Girl and Glasses Chimeriad eat it by being blasted off a cliff when you enter the final dungeon on Jude's side of the story? Like there was a pretty big scene between them and Alvin that made it seem to be pretty final.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:31
|
|
|
Yeah I had actually just forgotten that even happened.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Maybe i should ask this in the Tales thread but is Symphonia a good place to start the franchise? Just, I hear lots of love for Xillia, then someone was like it wasn't so great, and I dunno. It's like Kingdom Hearts in that you can tell its old. It's aged better than KH, though. The graphics are only okay, and it's a pretty "basic" plot, but I enjoyed it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Learning the Jecht Shot is the best example of how I have grown. As a kid, I couldn't do it and I thought it was really hard. But when I got X a couple years ago and played it again, it was so absurdly easy. Luke is amazing because he is basically a Disney Princess.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:47
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Don't Crazy Girl and Glasses Chimeriad eat it by being blasted off a cliff when you enter the final dungeon on Jude's side of the story? Like there was a pretty big scene between them and Alvin that made it seem to be pretty final. I only played through the Milla route, and I really felt like I missed a lot of poo poo because they just get written out and then all you hear about it is Alvin being really tortured about a scene you have no idea about. Not a very good idea, that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:49
|
|
|
You're supposed to do Jude's first; that's clearly the way they wrote the narrative, since Jude goes through a huge ordeal during Milla's absence in the second half. By comparison in her story, not much really happens in that span of time. Although it is a little annoying that you don't know which cutscenes will change based on your choice, so on a NG+ run you have to try and not skip one you haven't seen before.
Excels fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Apr 3, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
I just jumped on the Lightning Returns bandwagon, I'm enjoying the gameplay, especially the control and pace of the battle system and the general majoras mask feel of it. Holy titty loving christ the story is bad though. I enjoyed the mess that was the first two games, but square enix really outdid themselves in the high stakes bad dialogue game. I'm only a few hours in but already I hate every single character and the whole 'come on people bask in the loving light of almighty god, I'm the saviour but I'm only doing this to bring my sister back from the dead' is downright insulting. I guess I shouldn't have played it right after FFX HD. Which is loving amazing by the way, everyone should play it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Polite Tim posted:I just jumped on the Lightning Returns bandwagon, I'm enjoying the gameplay, especially the control and pace of the battle system and the general majoras mask feel of it. Holy titty loving christ the story is bad though. I enjoyed the mess that was the first two games, but square enix really outdid themselves in the high stakes bad dialogue game. I'm only a few hours in but already I hate every single character and the whole 'come on people bask in the loving light of almighty god, I'm the saviour but I'm only doing this to bring my sister back from the dead' is downright insulting. The best part about LR is how they keep saying again and again that the first two games were a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
precision posted:FFX's translation and VA direction is honestly a lot better than I would have expected/remembered, especially given how everything else at the time sounded. Jecht is great. You don't really get to hear Gregg Berger much in a major vocal role, although he does apparently voice Odie in all the Garfield shows. Jecht is my favorite character in the game, honestly. Especially once you understand he wasn't entirely to blame for Tidus' feelings about him. I mean, he was clearly an rear end in a top hat to Tidus in flashbacks but he did give a poo poo, clearly. A bit late in showing it, however. THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Kimahri and Wakka are the same VA. Seriously what is up with the other Ronso though. HORNLESS! HORNLESS! IcePhoenix posted:I just started on FFX HD and Titus' face really bothers me, did anyone else feel that way? It's like a doll with really creepy eyes. As far as FFVIII I always liked Irvine and it wasn't until recently I realized he doesn't choke when lining up his shot of Edea, he just recognizes her since he's not GF mind-hosed. Laguna and Ward also loving rule.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 21:54 |
|
|
Syrant posted:When he should clearly have some kind of expression on his face he's just... got nothing but the fantest of smiles going on. It's really awkward. That's the thing I really hate about the port, the company they outsourced it to totally didn't copy over all the nice little facial expressions all the characters tended to have in cutscenes. Now they're just stone-faced plastic doll people that occasionally smile or frown very very slightly. I think it takes away some of the charm and character of the game, but everything else is great. Too bad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2014 23:25
|
|