|
Kajeesus posted:On random map mode, I've noticed that moving a unit onto another players explored resource/treasure site (like mana nodes and ruins and everything) is considered an act of war, and even if you're at war, your units will path around them unless you direct them directly onto the hex in question. However, it's apparently perfectly kosher to enter unexplored sites, kill the guardians, and make off with the loot. I'm guessing it's because the site is marked as Independent until someone explores it, at which point it changes faction to whoever occupied it last/has it in their borders. My best buddy keeps diving into my borders to loot the ruins and tombs I haven't gotten around to. I think it's because standing on a resource site that isn't yours 'occupies' it, which deprives them of some resource income and is therefore an act of war.
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 00:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 23:04 |
|
|
I can't be certain 100%, but in my current game I've encountered two AI at war with each other and one of them owns a city of the other's race. On a map with no starting cities. That changed sides somehow.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 00:20
|
|
|
On the Commonwealth 4 map, you can sidestep the whole issue with you starting with no cities/settlers and just pay the AI who is plotting to kill you and destroy the world 350 gold for one of his two cities before he declares war. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 00:39
|
|
|
Wolpertinger posted:I think it's because standing on a resource site that isn't yours 'occupies' it, which deprives them of some resource income and is therefore an act of war. You can't move over one either, though. And if you were at peace or allied, it'd make more sense if you were just treated as guarding it. You can hang around your bros' cities just fine, after all. Corbeau posted:I can't be certain 100%, but in my current game I've encountered two AI at war with each other and one of them owns a city of the other's race. On a map with no starting cities. That changed sides somehow. Yeah, I've seen AI take each others' cities, but only ones that were undefended to my awareness.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 00:46
|
|
|
Nah in my Theocrat game, a dwarf Warlord have killed both an elf Archdruid, an Orc Sorcerer and a goblin Theocrat now. I watched him kill both the archdruid and the sorcerer and the dwarf definatly attacked heavily defended cities. The goblin died offscreen somewhere. So yeah the AI definatly fight each other.
Noir89 fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 01:05
|
|
|
Noir89 posted:Nah in my Theocrat game, a dwarf Warlord have killed both an elf Archdruid, an Orc Sorcerer and a goblin Theocrat now. I watched him kill both the archdruid and the sorcerer and the dwarf definatly attacked heavily defended cities. The goblin died offscreen somewhere. So yeah the AI deffinatly fight each other. Yea I've got a game going with two lord AIs and two Knight AIs and the lords killed the Knights pretty fast. Talking of weird AI behaviour - in maps where I turn off settling the AI still builds settler units and quite often attacks you with them. Is it possible to just make it so settlers can't be produced when settling is turned off to stop them doing that? It's really perculiar!
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:07
|
|
|
Settlers also rebuild razed cities, which is quite important in a map where new cities are disabled. But yeah, the AI should be able to recognize when not to build Settlers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:25
|
|
|
Also make it so settlers dont need to be chased down and killed at the end of a successful fight. Just auto kill them if they're the last enemy unit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:33
|
|
|
On AI aggression, I should also note that I had the AI attack my throne city with a roughly equal strength (or slightly more powerful) army. I won under manual combat, but automatic combat rated the battle as close and the strategic AI still went for the attack. I think the problem is more that the AI won't take the same kind of risks that a human player will. Unless they're certain that their throne is totally, absolutely safe, it seems like they won't leave it. Which slows down their expansion and makes them reluctant to launch attacks unless they have such an abundance of strength that they think that they can win simultaneously on both offense and defense (regardless of the fact that their opponent can only be in one place at a time). The AI would totally have killed me last game if he'd brought his whole army on offense rather than leaving a majority of it behind in his throne city. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:40
|
|
|
Impermanent posted:FAKE EDIT: Also are monsters harder underground? I had a dwarf empire that simply could not get off the ground in one game where I started underground and failed to expand in any meaningful way owing to the dozens of threats around me, then started another game where I forgot to tick the underground box and am now king Dwarf of the world. Is that just the RNG? I'm playing on Lord if that helps. Had an underground Orc game and had just started producing monster hunters when a loving undead dragon and two carrion birds decided to attack my throne city. It was epic - walls don't help against dragons - barely won. I built another stack of monster hunters and proceeded to find the dragon lair and murder everything there in retribution.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:45
|
|
|
For what it's worth, I updated all of the Game Concepts from the Tome here: https://age-of-blunders-iii.wikia.com/wiki/Game_Concepts It's not organized well and some of the links don't work, but I think the rest is done.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:45
|
|
|
Ojetor posted:Settlers also rebuild razed cities, which is quite important in a map where new cities are disabled. But yeah, the AI should be able to recognize when not to build Settlers. I thought builders did that too? I guess I've never bothered. I'd rather razed cities stayed razed really! I wish you could reload from battles. I hate having to wait for ages until I can surrender and then reload, it seems a bit unecessary!
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 03:46
|
|
|
Kajeesus posted:Air, Creation and Blight get equivalent spells for different climates, too. Earth also gets a Domain of Earth spell, which just makes all underground cities happy. They're all badass (except Creation, which just spreads Temperate, yawn). Creation's Temperate creation has a couple nice perks - there's no 'empire of temperance' to dispell, leaving you with an unhappy city, you can target it, so if you want to leave a city as something other than temperate, you have the option, it only requires creation adept instead of master, so you can take, say, master of earth without being poo poo out of luck on the surface if you find an excellent spot in the middle of a volcano. The fact that it's so much more flexible makes up for the lack of cool factor a little bit, I think. I like creation adept a whole lot between cleanse the land and the heal. Terraforming is fun though and I hope we get more terrain types/spells as time goes on, heh. Now I feel like making a elf druid of air mastery and making the entire world a frozen forest that everybody hates and can't move through but me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 04:01
|
|
|
Master also has a spell that spreads slowly from its borders. Not all races like temperate, so it has one of those too. I find it really useful for getting rid of blight and taking advantage away from goblins or someone with a Heart of the Blight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 04:13
|
|
|
Grondoth posted:Master also has a spell that spreads slowly from its borders. Not all races like temperate, so it has one of those too. I find it really useful for getting rid of blight and taking advantage away from goblins or someone with a Heart of the Blight. Goblins (and heart of the blight owners) don't like blight, they just don't DISLIKE it, which is their advantage. I guess it does help get rid of their combat morale advantage - you'll have a penalty and they won't so you'll get fumbles/less crits. I just found something cool on the official forums - looks like someone is actually making an online Tome of Wonders using the same method Gwyr suggested (unless that IS Gwyr), by using a script to rip data from the game files, and even using the ingame graphic but he hit the issue predicted with getting variable names instead of numbers, heh - a different dev posted about maybe finding a way to help him get around that, though, so who knows. http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/online-tome-of-wonder/ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52019586/Tome%20of%20Wonders/tome.html
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 04:53
|
|
|
I think the number of unicorns needs to be nerfed: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 04:53
|
|
|
UberJumper posted:I think the number of unicorns needs to be nerfed: Wow, that's.. a lot, even for unicorns, especially by only Elf 2.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:00
|
|
|
There's a lot of cool stuff that could stand to be gotten from lower tiered dungeons and such. Like Griffons, Trolls, Shock Serpent babies and other oddball tier 2/3's. Or literally any mount that isn't a Unicorn Sire or a Hellhound. Having all the cool mounts and units locked in dungeons that require a bunch of tier 3's/4's or strongish heroes to attempt is a little annoying. Has anyone even managed to see a Phoenix in game yet?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:04
|
|
|
Zore posted:There's a lot of cool stuff that could stand to be gotten from lower tiered dungeons and such. Honestly i would like to see the more random independent encounters (like the ones on mines, mana nodes, or just out in the middle of nowhere) drop something. Most of the time they drop absolutely nothing. I ran into a pair of Phoenixes in Elf 2, they are basically seem on par with a dragon. Sadly all they were able to do was a fire breath before i wiped them out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:24
|
|
|
Zore posted:
My ally sent a hero and couple of t3 units to explore a dungeon and they all died. I checked out of curiosity and some mooks (who died quickly) and 2 Phoenixes wrecked their poo poo so hard. They're kinda terrifying
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:25
|
|
|
Zore posted:There's a lot of cool stuff that could stand to be gotten from lower tiered dungeons and such. I've fought them, they're pretty hardcore. It was in a legendary dungeon though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 05:30
|
|
|
Gerblyn, can we get a save game button when a player disconnects in Multiplayer games? The current options after a disconnection are surrender the player and continue with AI. Surrender the player is obviously not very useful if you want to continue the game. If you choose continue with AI and then save the AI will mess up whatever the disconnected player was doing. One example: I disconnected, had my mate continue with AI, then save. When we reloaded, I noticed my gold income had tanked. Checking around I found the problem: the AI had set most of my cities to raze themselves. They also tend to move units around and split up armies and it's quite bothersome, so if we could save from the exact moment of the disconnection it would be awesome.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 06:28
|
|
|
Ojetor posted:Gerblyn, can we get a save game button when a player disconnects in Multiplayer games? The current options after a disconnection are surrender the player and continue with AI. Surrender the player is obviously not very useful if you want to continue the game. If you choose continue with AI and then save the AI will mess up whatever the disconnected player was doing. Yep, this seems like a big oversight. I've asked someone to look into it. Wolpertinger posted:I just found something cool on the official forums - looks like someone is actually making an online Tome of Wonders using the same method Gwyr suggested (unless that IS Gwyr), by using a script to rip data from the game files, and even using the ingame graphic but he hit the issue predicted with getting variable names instead of numbers, heh - a different dev posted about maybe finding a way to help him get around that, though, so who knows. I just asked around and the unit pages in the tome of wonders aren't output in a very text friendly way. I was hoping it would be simple to grab the text it outputs for a unit and redirect it to a txt file, but that's not possible without a lot of work  THS posted:Had an underground Orc game and had just started producing monster hunters when a loving undead dragon and two carrion birds decided to attack my throne city. It was epic - walls don't help against dragons - barely won. I built another stack of monster hunters and proceeded to find the dragon lair and murder everything there in retribution. This is apparently a known issue and there's case already booked for someone to fix it, thankfully. Thyrork posted:Edit: Hey Gerblyn, i just had a crazy thought, would it be possible to make it so that when two humans are present, and one goes into a battle against the AI, the other human can take over the AI if both parties agree? Might spice up having to sit through some dudes combat segment. In the case of multiple players ... I have no idea. Votes while the opening move is played? It's not that weird, a lot of people have asked for this, I don't know what the status of it is though. I don't think it's that hard to do, the issues are more design things. For example, how do we ask if all players agree to a player controlling the AI? If there are 3 players, who decides which of the remaining 2 players will control the AI side? Stuff like that. Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Hey Gerblyn you have a typo in Freeze Water: I blame interns 
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 08:52
|
|
|
Gerblyn posted:This is apparently a known issue and there's case already booked for someone to fix it, thankfully. Make things like this more common IMO the bots are pretty easy as-is Edit: Did you guys see Tom Chick's review of this game? He might have put the finger on what's missing, for me: something to prevent the endgame from turning into a sloggy mop-up. Not that I mean to sound so negative in this post. Exploring and empire building in this thing are a blast - it's just one of those things where I feel like it could be a real classic with a few extra bits and bobs, you know how that can create some real mixed feelings. Space Hamlet fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 10:18
|
|
|
Space Hamlet posted:Edit: Did you guys see Tom Chick's review of this game? He might have put the finger on what's missing, for me: something to prevent the endgame from turning into a sloggy mop-up. I agree with him, I think we made a mistake not having an alternate end game plan. We're working on fixing the end game balance now, after research we want to look at Tier 4s and mana income. I'm not sure about alternate end games, though I know my boss has read the review and will probably be seeing if he can come up with something. It won't come fast however, an alternate end game is a big thing to add. If nothing else, we need to find a way of making sure the AI understands it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 10:48
|
|
|
I'm thinking really hard about getting this game because I'll finally have more time to play vidiya games after graduation and it looks pretty awesome even aside from goon hype, but money is kinda tight and so I'm still hesitant. Having read the review above, I'm specifically worried about the endgame actually being an issue, as it's something that often takes away from my enjoyment of other 4X games. How do you guys feel about it in this game?
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 10:50
|
|
|
Yeah, that review nails a lot of it - once you get to a certain point you're either winning, in which case it's a bit of a slog to actually do the coup de grace, or you're locked in a stalemate which means you've got several hours of wading through tier 4s to do. Fortunately, the core gameplay leading up to that point is so solid that there's pretty much no doubt it can be hammered into a real classic. I can't think of almost any 4x that didn't start off rough, and honestly most start pretty lovely, while this is actually a good game from the get go.. I honestly can't wait to see what this looks like with an expansion or two (if there are two). More classes, more races, more stuff. Fortunately, it's possible to be quick enough to take out AI before that can happen, which pretty much how I play the game now - pushing with the weakest units I can, waiting the shortest time I can. In a lot of cases it never gets to the t4 slog and it's fun all around. For some reason, I swear that the worst offender as far as the endgame that never ends is rogues - no other class I've seen the AI spam SO MANY t4 units - and shadow stalkers are a particular pain in the rear end to clean up with 60% phys resist, flying, passwall, and a tendency to run away from your army and scatter to the four winds to snipe all your cities until you end up razing half the map just to keep it out of his hands. Juggernaut blobs never get anywhere near that big, manticores tend to be spread out among many weaker units instead of all bunched up, and I don't think i've ever seen the AI do a shrine of smiting, horned god, or eldritch horror swarm Badly Jester posted:I'm thinking really hard about getting this game because I'll finally have more time to play vidiya games after graduation and it looks pretty awesome even aside from goon hype, but money is kinda tight and so I'm still hesitant. Honestly, I'd say it's worth buying - there's already a beta patch out that helps alleviate the problem a lot, and you can fiddle with random map settings to prevent t4 spam from ever becoming a serious issue. Plus I suspect people are going to start pumping out great content for it soon, like they did for Age of Wonders 1 and 2 and Shadow Magic. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:05
|
|
|
Wolpertinger posted:For some reason, I swear that the worst offender as far as the endgame that never ends is rogues - no other class I've seen the AI spam SO MANY t4 units - and shadow stalkers are a particular pain in the rear end to clean up with 60% phys resist, flying, passwall, and a tendency to run away from your army and scatter to the four winds to snipe all your cities until you end up razing half the map just to keep it out of his hands. Juggernaut blobs never get anywhere near that big, manticores tend to be spread out among many weaker units instead of all bunched up, and I don't think i've ever seen the AI do a shrine of smiting, horned god, or eldritch horror swarm Shadow Stalkers are tier 3, I suspect the AI gets so many of them because they're so cheap compared to tier 4s.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:07
|
|
|
Gerblyn posted:Shadow Stalkers are tier 3, I suspect the AI gets so many of them because they're so cheap compared to tier 4s. Really? Huh. So they don't technically have a 'tier 4' unit, then? Shadow stalkers probably take the mantle of 'best tier 3' from Firstborn then, heh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:11
|
|
|
Wolpertinger posted:Really? Huh. So they don't technically have a 'tier 4' unit, then? Shadow stalkers probably take the mantle of 'best tier 3' from Firstborn then, heh. In the latest patch, they're monsters. Giving them frost damage took away their biggest weakness and if you can get them to gold medal, they can proc a frost damage based stun on every strike. They're still much weaker than T4s with regards to hit points and stuff though, so they go down fast to non-elemental attacks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:15
|
|
|
Gerblyn posted:In the latest patch, they're monsters. Giving them frost damage took away their biggest weakness and if you can get them to gold medal, they can proc a frost damage based stun on every strike. They're still much weaker than T4s with regards to hit points and stuff though, so they go down fast to non-elemental attacks. Yeah, frost is a really rare damage type, for some reason - both to resist and to do. Other than stalkers there's.. archon casters, bleak wargs, and frost dragons? Makes shadow stalkers practically unique, as none of the rest are exactly easy to get.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:21
|
|
|
Gerblyn posted:I blame interns Haha I was mostly joking since it doesn't seem to matter to the game. There were a number of typos I spotted while sorting through things but I forgot to write them down Anyway, now for something slightly more useful, all of the spells, skills, and specializations are on the wiki now: https://age-of-blunders-iii.wikia.com/wiki/Age_of_Blunders_III_Wiki Minus many of the useful things like spell cost/tier/research cost/etc, they will have to be manually added unless someone figures out how to rip that data. If anyone wants to fill in the blanks or organize the Game Concepts page they are more than welcome to :I Same story with Units, they'd have to be manually added as of now. I've got a plan for a simple template method that allows you to just drop in the list of abilities the unit has and it will build a proper character sheet from it, but that'll have to wait for another day.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:22
|
|
|
Gerblyn posted:I agree with him, I think we made a mistake not having an alternate end game plan. We're working on fixing the end game balance now, after research we want to look at Tier 4s and mana income. I'm not sure about alternate end games, though I know my boss has read the review and will probably be seeing if he can come up with something. It won't come fast however, an alternate end game is a big thing to add. If nothing else, we need to find a way of making sure the AI understands it. Some passing thoughts, for what they're worth: A quick-ish fix might be adding some super-late-game spells, roughly equivalent to Civ's nukes and/or paratroopers. Auto-razing cities on the strategic map might be a bit much (in practice I'm auto-resolving all my fights toward the end but in theory I shouldn't be) but free teleportation of certain stacks would really cut down on some of the tedium. My favorite endgame in any strategy game is that in Rise of Nations - everyone races for nukes and then there's an orgy of decisive destruction, and the game is eventually won by whatever's left in the aftermath. Depending on how a game plays out, those nukes can function as a comeback mechanic, a final blow, or as a mutual slugfest. This feels like how a game about wizards building their power ought to end, as well. My brother also proposed an alternate game mode whereby the game is won by controlling some capturable independent structures - probably gaurded by top-tier monsters. I like that idea too.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:23
|
|
|
I loving love this wizard nukes idea.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:33
|
|
|
Space Hamlet posted:Some passing thoughts, for what they're worth: Yeah, I've felt the lack of teleportation when you're fighting tons of stacks - once you lose some troops it takes a long time to get reinforcements, which means they have time to get more of their own, and so on and so forth. Teleporting units as an endgame thing would help you take out major cities once and for all, even if it's just city-to-city teleportation like Shadow Magic. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:33
|
|
|
I think adding vassalage would be a decent endgame expansion. Capture/kill/banish an Empire's leader in a way that prevents them from respawning at their throne and you can offer to make them your vassal in diplomacy, basically the same as Civ 4's version. The vassal gives some portion of its income to their liege, the liege gets FoV of their vassal, and the vassal recieves some happiness/moral hit for cities and armies. Liege and Vassal win together in alliance or elimination victories. The Vassal gets a chance to revive/summon/rescue their leader to rebel against their liege and recieve a substantial moral/happiness boost for the first few turns of the revolution. Another option would be to play up the ideological conflict by the end of the game, i.e. bringing all the "Good" players together into an alliance against all the "Evil" players for the endgame.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:35
|
|
|
Triskelli posted:Another option would be to play up the ideological conflict by the end of the game, i.e. bringing all the "Good" players together into an alliance against all the "Evil" players for the endgame. Letting those alignments feel more important would be great. Imagine: spending the whole game exploring the map and then, once everything is known, gearing up for the final epic war!
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:38
|
|
|
Wizard nukes. Capturable independent structures to win the game. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Sounds.. strangely familiar. and then I spend 10 minutes searching for a screenshot of Death Storm or Divine Storm from an altar of death/life in AoW1 and being unable to find even one. There are no frigging screenshots of that game! Regardless though, those things were awesome - independent structures you captured and sat on, gigantic aoe strategy map nuke, plus permanently terraforming the land to leave a 'smoking crater' - can't get much cooler than that! Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:44
|
|
|
Actually if you were to increase the effect of terrain on populations and allow terraforming spells to be cast on ememy cites, they could effectivly be your nukes. Thus my job as draconians would be to cover the world in volcanic terrain or whatever it is they like. Orcs would love barrens but be killed off slowly in a city built in a forest, and stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 23:04 |
|
|
Rabhadh posted:Actually if you were to increase the effect of terrain on populations and allow terraforming spells to be cast on ememy cites, they could effectivly be your nukes. Thus my job as draconians would be to cover the world in volcanic terrain or whatever it is they like. Orcs would love barrens but be killed off slowly in a city built in a forest, and stuff like that. Cool idea but I'm not sure there's really terrain that would really fit as survivable only by a single race, while having an equivalent for every race including humans. Trees killing orcs is a bit much - I can see it working with volcanic for draconians, blight for goblins... but other than that? I guess if you brought back sacred forests from AoW1 or something, but that would be ludicrously OP as a domainwide terrain effect.. which I suppose is the point. Bringing them back as a temporary small 6-8~ tile AOE like AoW1 would be pretty cool though too - sacred forests and poison vines were fun to lay minefields for your enemies. You could probably just use the poison vines/thorns already in the game though, but those would cause friendly fire, but it might be worth doing anyway if you were expecting a big attack. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Apr 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2014 11:50
|
|