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Ghostwoods posted:If it's any consolation, it's very different in the New World of Darkness. Things are much more fragmented, and the supernatural is far less invasive into reality. Personally, I loved the batshit insanity of oWoD, and nWoD doesn't quite hit the spot for me. Anyone that knows, could you get more into the differences between Vampire: The Requiem and the Masquerade? I have been going into the former a bit more, and I am finding that it is very different in a lot of ways.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:20
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When running any setting from oWoD, you were supposed to tone down poo poo from other source books and never make them as frequent as whatever your players played as. The world was just too small to contain all the metaplot stuff. Full-on crossovers didn't even make sense, because every group of supernaturals had their own sets of villains. Hell, some of them even had separate playgrounds which were pretty much unavailable for anyone but them.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:24
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Dante Logos posted:Anyone that knows, could you get more into the differences between Vampire: The Requiem and the Masquerade? I have been going into the former a bit more, and I am finding that it is very different in a lot of ways. One of the most meaningful changes between nWoD and oWoD is that the former lacks world-spanning supernatural societies. There is no central vampire government like Camarilla - Kindred in each city have their own sets of law. Contact between them is sporadic, as vampires are even more territorial and don't like to leave their own domains. There are only five clans. Nosferatu are pretty much like in oWoD, except that their deformations are not always physical. Ventrue and Gangrel are also pretty similar. Daeva are depraved Toreadors obsessed with beauty, and Mekhet are dealers of secrets who love living in the dark and are extremely susceptible to fire. Also, most vampire belong to Covenants: political organizations with voluntary membership. There are, of course, five of them:
There are also two organizations of outcasts from vampire society: VII (seven) who hunt other vampires and Belial's Brood who worship Satan.
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Apr 12, 2014 23:45
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Ventrue in the nWoD are kind of like how they are in the oWoD, except they've been spliced with Old Clan Tzimice - they are about control, period. They still get Dominate and Fortitude but they also have Animalism. They also may have been birthed during the fall of the Roman Empire through the aid of evil owl spirits to bring down the original Julii and destroy the Camarilla. The Carthian Movement isn't so much about being democratic - their concern is with the first two points Gant brought up. They want change and while some of this has led to more egalitarian methods in some cities its also led to groups trying... experiments. Such experiments include willingly turning themselves in to a hivemind with one another, subsuming their will completely to the will of the whole or members of the Bodhisatcracy. And that's not even touching upon the absolute horror stories caused by failed experiments such as the Burning Horizon - it's even more telling that the Movement still treats the surviving members of that nightmare as worthy of respect because "at least they tried". So, yeah. oWoD sometimes feels like high school cliches. nWoD feels like a model UN.
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Apr 13, 2014 00:30
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citybeatnik posted:Ventrue in the nWoD are kind of like how they are in the oWoD, except they've been spliced with Old Clan Tzimice - they are about control, period. They still get Dominate and Fortitude but they also have Animalism. They also may have been birthed during the fall of the Roman Empire through the aid of evil owl spirits to bring down the original Julii and destroy the Camarilla. What's the story here? It sounds like a good one. 
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Apr 13, 2014 00:35
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HaitianDivorce posted:What's the story here? It sounds like a good one. There's a few different philosophical movements through the Carthian Movement - you have pure democracy, yes, but also socialist dictatorships and even constitutional tyranny. The Burning Horizon's name is a reference to looking ahead at the future no matter the pain it might cause - equating the future with the rising sun, yadda yadda. The city they took over (or rather, were granted authority over by the old Prefect) isn't named, but it's presented in the write up as one of those "it could happen ANYWHERE!" scenarios and one that had been in control of the Movement for several decades. The cotorie felt that neonates in America, due to them being born in to a culture of entitlement and privilege were woefully ill-equipped to handle the realities of actually being, you know, a vampire. So, they kickstarted a three-part plan on all the new kids - Accounting, Training, and Assignment: You had to introduce yourself, identify your clan, and give some way of reaching you. The Burning Horizon would then sit down with you and interview you to decide if you could function in the city or not. If you couldn't, you were given training in the dozen or so fields that the cotorie was specialized in. And then you were given your assignment, something you had to do to stay there in the city. That's it. You did your job, you kept the city safe and you did not get territorial about things, and the Horizon would provide the shelter you needed and the blood you craved. You didn't even need to hunt, which freed up a great deal of your free time for personal advancement and further training during your "off time". Hell, the last bit was even a bit of a joke - you'd head on down to The Bank and make a withdrawal. You failed to do any of that and they killed you by beheading and decorated the meeting hall with your skull. It worked. The system -worked-. It was efficient and the rules were clear and everyone knew their part. And if you were a visitor and you were just passing through, or you decided that you were going to move on after learning what you felt you needed to know? Why you would be escorted to the city limits by the city's enforcers and provided you were polite and they liked you they'd even drop you off at the nearest hotel. And the whole loving thing fell apart because the basic underpinnings of it required the people in charge to become monsters. First, when a Kindred was escorted out of the city they were only occasionally allowed to leave. Most of the time? If the people driving you off didn't like the look of you, or had been having a bad day, or just were feeling like being an rear end in a top hat they'd stake you and throw you in a quarry lake. Or they'd kill you and throw your ashes in to the quarry lake. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of vampire bodies, one way or another, at the bottom of that quarry lake. And that's not the worse of it. See, the way that the Horizon was able to provide all that easy to get blood for folks so they didn't have to worry about hunting or have qualms about harming other people? The blood that always seemed fresh and was handed out free of charge to folks in good standing or were injured in protecting the city? The blood that came in plastic bottles so it completely removed the vampire from having to think about where it came from, like buying up pre-sliced lunch meat? The Horizon kidnapped mortals on a nightly basis and bled them dry slowly, sometimes but not always bothering to sedate them beforehand. They also would bleed a vampire dry before killing them for violating the rules, and it's strangely amazing how easily those rules could be violated on nights where hunting was bad. The whole city was run on blood and murder, and their corpses would be tossed in to the quarry lake as well. And it BROKE the Horizon, with their individual descents in to madness bringing the whole house of cards down after them. The member that was most knowledgeable about manipulating politics and authority become a blood thirsty monster and had to be put down like a dog when she frenzied in the middle of the Bank, alerting the authorities. The one that had done most of the kidnapping and murder "because it was the right thing" ended up on the run from the cops and steered his car in to a gasoline tanker rather than risk them catching him as the sun came up. Their enforcer was torn to shreds by Kindred from neighboring cities who had heard the rumors. And their grease monkey just up and left, leaving a note that read "Good run, huh?" The one surviving member was treated as a pariah by everyone, and he just up and left as well, taking the roster of Kindred in the city with him. The city is ruined now, from a vampire perspective - you can't hunt easily any more and everyone considers the place to be bad luck. That last bit might be true, because the ghosts of the folks murdered by the Horizon are haunting the city. As in vengeful spirits of the dead coming back to avenge themselves on the nearest target. That's not even counting whatever the gently caress it was they woke up in the quarry - sometimes Kindred who took part in the city but had moved on elsewhere are found paralyzed and all but dead, the blood in their veins replaced with brackish water. And most Carthians tend to clap their hands together and go "well, that ALMOST worked, what can we do to fix it for the next time".
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Apr 13, 2014 01:29
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:To be fair, the storyteller is free to take or leave whatever metaplot elements he or she chooses. Last time I ran a game, I cut the worldwide population of vampires down by giving the Embrace a 1/3 chance of failure.
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Apr 13, 2014 01:35
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TheMcD posted:So, I just spend some extended time listening to the soundtrack and the Deb of Night show, and I'm not sure if this has been discussed before or not, but I'll just ask anyway: I'm pretty sure the theory is that she's kindred - you don't really need to look any further than her reaction to Gomez's revealing the vampiric truth live on air, to see what amounts to a panic. she usually tolerates his supernatural conspiracy theories, but she cuts him off early and goes to a break. From memory he doesn't call back in episode 6, which is the final one, implying he's been killed for breaking the masquerade
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Apr 13, 2014 02:09
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steinrokkan posted:Well, this right here is why I've been unable to get into WoD. Bloodlines got me fired up, but reading the source material proper quickly cooled my enthusiasm.
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Apr 13, 2014 02:31
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nWOD has much better rules than oWOD, and the core book is worth picking up for modern gritty horror kinda stuff.
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Apr 13, 2014 03:56
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citybeatnik posted:And most Carthians tend to clap their hands together and go "well, that ALMOST worked, what can we do to fix it for the next time".  Welp that certainly was a story. When you say the dudes in charge of the system went mad, is that just a thing that nWoD vampires do, or is that because the ~tormented souls~ of all the folks they were responsible for the death of were haunting them, or...? And how widely did that spread in that city that only a single Kindred survived?
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Apr 13, 2014 04:43
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HaitianDivorce posted:
nWoD vampires are...weird. As you remain awake and active, your blood increases in power/potency, which affects your personality and mental state. Eventually you NEED to go into torpor to "cool off" and thin things out. Only torpor is no longer a simple "long sleep"--it's like a fever dream where your memories get put to the "will it blend?" test. Live long enough, and you can't be sure if your ancient history--your earliest memories--really happened or are just wild imaginings. That alone will screw you up. Now toss in wanton murder in a factory setting and it takes a special kind of psychopath to not crack further.
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Apr 13, 2014 06:34
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OAquinas posted:nWoD vampires are...weird. As you remain awake and active, your blood increases in power/potency, which affects your personality and mental state. Eventually you NEED to go into torpor to "cool off" and thin things out. Only torpor is no longer a simple "long sleep"--it's like a fever dream where your memories get put to the "will it blend?" test. Live long enough, and you can't be sure if your ancient history--your earliest memories--really happened or are just wild imaginings.  Jesus ChristBlend that a highly rigid and traditional society and I can't imagine how they'd function. Is every single nWoD vampire elder a stark raving lunatic? Does everyone get along by just ignoring the chain of command until it gets to a dude who can talk in complete sentences?
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Apr 13, 2014 07:08
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HaitianDivorce posted:
The Prince of New Orleans is a relatively chill dude that -should- have fallen in to torpor decades ago but keeps soldiering on due to his whole-hearted religious devotion and desire to do what he thinks is the right thing for his city. His religious devotion, mind, is to the Lancae Sanctum which holds the belief that the first coherent vampire was Longinus who was turned in to one when a few drops of Jesus Christ's blood fell on his lips - the Lance is basically what the Sabbat was at its "best", minus the needless baby eating. He's also up to his eyeballs in derangements all centered around the need for control so what he thinks is the right thing is filtered through the lens of someone dealing with among other things paranoia, megalomania, and narcissism. Also, his blood has reached a state of such potency that he can only survive by feeding off of other Kindred. It's also potent enough to allow him to ignore the blood bond from the chaff that make up the ranks of neonates. VtR is a game basically about surviving until you're at a firm enough position to avoid the batshit people playing power politics and planning on how you'll deal with it when you become one of them. \/\/\/ The sleep of ages is basically White Wolf's way of getting out of having to have an actual single, canonical creation myth. Two of the Covenants claim to have been created by some progenitor that was the original vampire (Longinus and the Crone), one claims to have existed since the ancient Roman empire (Invictus) while the other two are relatively new kids on the block. The Mekhet creation story involves mystery cults dating back from Egypt while the Ventrue look at you sternly in the eye and Dominate you in to telling people "We were totally around during the Roman Empire and anything you hear about us being possibly descended from barbarians elsewhere is lies and slander" - I'm unclear on what the Gangrel, Daeva, and Nosferatu myths are but they're each unique. And this is all based off of stuff before Blood & Smoke, the revised edition. And I -still- can't get some people to pick up VtR because it's "not as deep and complex as VtM". citybeatnik fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 07:37
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Well, maybe its not quite as bad as I led on. I just re-read the section and the main effect of increasing blood potency is the loss of the ability to feed on humans alone--requiring vampire blood to remain active. The caveat is that full-on diablerie increases your BP, so with each one you reduce the amount of time until torpor. So the blood itself doesn't drive you mad (unless you're malkovian)...though torpor is still a highly confused state, especially if you enter it unwillingly. That said, live long enough and you tend to slide in humanity. And degeneration is an express lane for derangements and mental illness by itself.
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Apr 13, 2014 07:38
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citybeatnik posted:And this is all based off of stuff before Blood & Smoke, the revised edition. And I -still- can't get some people to pick up VtR because it's "not as deep and complex as VtM". Thanks for the info, both you and OAquinas--next time I'm in a bookstore with some cash burning a hole in my pocket I'll have to see what I can get my hands on.
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Apr 13, 2014 07:49
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HaitianDivorce posted:Thanks for the info, both you and OAquinas--next time I'm in a bookstore with some cash burning a hole in my pocket I'll have to see what I can get my hands on. I think it's only available via PoD or in PDF. I keep meaning to grab it but since I don't get to play it I just can't see myself spending the twenty bucks for an electronic copy.
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Apr 13, 2014 07:56
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citybeatnik posted:That last bit might be true, because the ghosts of the folks murdered by the Horizon are haunting the city. As in vengeful spirits of the dead coming back to avenge themselves on the nearest target. If there's that many angry ghosts around, the local Geists are gonna be pissed.
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Apr 13, 2014 19:11
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TheMcD posted:Or an orgy of blood and violence stemming from a bladed whirlwind going at the speed of light, as it was in my case. Or a lot of skulking around and backstabbing people who really should be able to see you, but can't, the way I usually play.
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Apr 14, 2014 03:51
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Dante Logos posted:Anyone that knows, could you get more into the differences between Vampire: The Requiem and the Masquerade? The "punk" element is really downplayed in Requiem. Masquerade pitted the players against a rigged and corrupt system (everything is controlled by a global hierarchy of ancient elders who play their descendants against each other in a never-ending Jyhad; vampirism is an unbreakable curse from YHWH himself; the only way to increase your vampiric power is through diablerie - oh, and and no matter what you do, you'll get eaten by Antediluvians eventually) and invited them to rage against the machine. In Requiem, political conflicts are generally limited to a single city, vampiric curse has unknown origins and can be partially circumvented (if the efforts of Ordo Dracul are of any indication) and there's no imminent Gehenna on the horizon. Furthermore, a vampire's Blood Potency (Requiem's equivalent of Generation) naturally improves over years of activity - up to the point where it causes the elder to develop severe drawbacks that can only be neutralized by entering torpor for an extended time, which both reduces their Blood Potency and screws up their memories. The combination of these factors leads to a more dynamic system (*), where elders eventually free up their positions and neonates/ancillae advance further. Finally, getting pummeled into torpor is significantly more dangerous to one's mental state now, while Embracing new vampires incurs a permanent Willpower drain on the sire (so no more Mass Embraces). With all of the above taken into account, playing it safe and subtle is a much more attractive option in Requiem than it was in Masquerade. (*) Unless it's an Invictus city with one or more cyclic dynasties. If you happen to be Embraced in a city like that, consider moving.
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Apr 14, 2014 13:41
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Ephemeron posted:(*) Unless it's an Invictus city with one or more cyclic dynasties. If you happen to be Embraced in a city like that, consider moving. Cyclical Dynastic Houses can be a good thing, if you like relatively boring stability at the cost of a somewhat overbearing and snooty hierarchy that is rather likely to pass you the potatoes last. Q. What is a Cyclical Dynastic House? A. A special Invictus trick involving a coterie of high-ish Blood Potency vampires that get around the whole torpor-disrupting-their-rule bother by taking turns entering Topor voluntarily and passing the mantle of leadership between them. The real trick of course are the Invictus-specific Merits that allow the awake and Torpored vampires to commune telepathically (for advice and such) and use the waking members of the House as a stabilizing force to prevent Torpor-induced-memory-fuckery. Add on top of that the regular Invictus Blood Contract* stuff and you can have a very powerful and very continuous coterie that can maintain a power foothold for centuries with relative ease. *Every Covenant gets something special, and the Invictus get Blood Contracts, who can do anything from show if someone is keeping their end of a bargain to lighting their blood on fire if they break the Contract, or share Disciplines and Willpower and all kinds of neato junk.
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Apr 14, 2014 15:17
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"We need to set an important safety example for the kine. Traffic fatalities and pedestrian injuries are on the rise. No more speeding or jaywalking, or you explode." -Some rear end in a top hat
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Apr 14, 2014 18:53
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Pvt.Scott posted:"We need to set an important safety example for the kine. Traffic fatalities and pedestrian injuries are on the rise. No more speeding or jaywalking, or you explode." -Some rear end in a top hat I never thought the word "nanny state" would apply to vampires.
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Apr 14, 2014 19:46
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OAquinas posted:Was the plan. CCP Games just gutted the Atlanta office right before Christmas. Atlanta being the offices of White Wolf and the heart of WoD online development, that's not a good sign. Someone noted that the WW buyout included a contractual obligation to develop a WoD mmo...but there's no release date. So as long as they can claim it's "in development" they can sit on it in perpetuity. Their ill-advised/failed FPS Dust has sucked up all the non-eve devs and creative oxygen. I guess I was wrong...they actually did decide to cancel it. http://themittani.com/news/world-darkness-mmo-cancelled Not sure what happens to the rights now; hopefully CCP doesn't just bury them with the shark meat.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:32
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OAquinas posted:I guess I was wrong...they actually did decide to cancel it. http://themittani.com/news/world-darkness-mmo-cancelled If I were CCP, I'd either sell the rights to someone like Fantasy Flight or partner with them to produce a new edition of WoD. The WoD IP is valuable enough that I can't imagine them just sitting on it.
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Apr 14, 2014 20:45
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they are already making a revised version for nWoD. Just doing it one line at a time. so far I have enjoyed the results. They have also been updating cWoD too with updated rules.
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Apr 14, 2014 21:52
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LoonShia posted:I never thought the word "nanny state" would apply to vampires. The Carthian Movement, as an off-shoot of the Invictus, has something similar going on. Provided the laws of the Domain in question are properly laid out and clear regarding supernatural matters, if someone who is a member of the Covenant witnesses someone breaking the rules they can stop you from using your abilities. This works whether or not you're aware of breaking the laws. There's usually a loophole in there to let the Covenant member use THEIR powers against someone that shouldn't be using theirs.
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Apr 14, 2014 22:24
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citybeatnik posted:The Carthian Movement, as an off-shoot of the Invictus, has something similar going on. Provided the laws of the Domain in question are properly laid out and clear regarding supernatural matters, if someone who is a member of the Covenant witnesses someone breaking the rules they can stop you from using your abilities. You don't even need to sign your name in blood first of your own free will like with Invictus Blood contracts!  Yeah right, of course the Invictus can lock you into things unilaterally with The Oath Unsworn anyway. Then of course an Invictus Bloodline called the Spina can make you take lethal damage just from being catty to you on top of that. When Invictus start talking, run - assuming you're not beguiled with Dominate or Majesty.
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Apr 14, 2014 22:44
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LeJackal posted:Then of course an Invictus Bloodline called the Spina can make you take lethal damage just from being catty to you on top of that. I swear the invented that entire bloodline just for the 'cutting insult' puns.
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Apr 15, 2014 00:20
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Welp, the LP finally convinced me to break down and get this on Steam and I must say, more games need abilities like Celerity!  
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Apr 16, 2014 22:56
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Tyrone Biggums posted:Welp, the LP finally convinced me to break down and get this on Steam and I must say, more games need abilities like Celerity! Celerity is one of those special powers that first comes off as "hm, I wonder what that is..." and ends up as "HOLY FUCKBALLS THIS IS THE BEST POWER EVER". Domination just can't compare.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:01
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TheMcD posted:Celerity is one of those special powers that first comes off as "hm, I wonder what that is..." and ends up as "HOLY FUCKBALLS THIS IS THE BEST POWER EVER". Domination just can't compare. Let's talk about lore for a second regarding Celerity. Can it be toggled on and off just like in the game or is it just stuck on all the time? The idea of living forever while everyone else is in slow motion seems more terrifying than anything else.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:15
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Tyrone Biggums posted:Let's talk about lore for a second regarding Celerity. Can it be toggled on and off just like in the game or is it just stuck on all the time? The idea of living forever while everyone else is in slow motion seems more terrifying than anything else. Celerity is an "Activated" power, so you aren't perpetually stuck in that frame of reference. There are two versions of it (well, three if you want to get CRAZY): The Dark Ages and the Modern one. DA Celerity allowed you to take unpenalized additional actions every round at the cost of 1 Blood Point per action, up to your rating in Celerity. Really only benefits low generation vampires due to the BP/round limitation of your generation. Revised/Modern Nights Celerity allows for unpenalized additional actions every round (up to your Celerity Rating), at the cost of one Blood Point, period. So any 13th gen with Celerity 5 can actually make use of it (and be DAMNED deadly). The "City Gangrel" bloodline with its mix of Protean, Obfuscate, and Celerity is unbelievably lethal at relatively low power levels. The unpenalized bit is the key--anyone can take multiple actions, but you do so at a reduced dice pool. Practically speaking, doing more than 2 actions per round gets unworkable unless you have a ridiculous dice pool to start with (a high attribute + skill combination). So someone with Celerity can overwhelm a more skilled adversary simply by attacking more than they can defend. The third version of celerity? Temporis, used by the "True Brujah." It skips the "go real fast"/dilation conceit in favor of direct time fuckery. Another holdover from the "WTF were you thinking" days of The True Black Hand.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:29
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V20 changed it up so that it has both an "active" and "passive" effect. Passively, Celerity adds its rating to any Dexterity-based pool - with the way that V20 streamlined the multiple actions rules, it means that you've got anywhere from +1 to +5 (or higher) to split between "punch dudes" and "not get punched by dudes" as an example. It also lets you get successes faster on anything Dexterity+Crafts related, which ties in nicely with Toreador using it to paint faster or dance more smoothly. You activate it by spending a number of blood points up to your rating (you are not capped by Generation on this I believe) - instead of adding to your dice pools now you get that number of extra actions. Potence is handled the same way. Fortitude, meanwhile, continues to be the redheaded stepchild of the physical disciplines. I keep wishing that it'd work like Iron Mountain.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:51
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I didn't know the 20th anniversary stuff included system changes. I only kinda saw that they were kickstarting reprints and went "meh." Might have to check those out.
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Apr 17, 2014 03:36
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Yeah, it's less of a reprinting and more of a revised version of the Revised Edition 
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Apr 17, 2014 03:50
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Pvt.Scott posted:I didn't know the 20th anniversary stuff included system changes. I only kinda saw that they were kickstarting reprints and went "meh." Might have to check those out. System changes include: * Disciplines (including the VENTRUE TURBOBONER rule for Dominate) * Abilities (Linguistics is out, Technology is in; Larceny replaces Security) * Humanity/Paths (Each Morality path gives you a bonus to certain dice rolls) * Clan weaknesses (A few; the Tremere one's been mentioned, but the Toreador had a slight face lift as well - they're not just catatonic staring at the exquisitely crafted taxidermy mice in party hats, they rant and rave and are focused on them to the exclusion of everything else) * Mechanical changes (Not that many, but enough that you notice, such as the multiple actions one) W20 goes even further, including changes to Gifts (there's a big rebalance of low rank gifts to give them more punch) and how Backgrounds are handled - you can play as a Bone Gnawer with Ancestors, Pure Breed, or Resources, just good luck 1) explaining that to your ST and 2) getting the freebies for them.
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Apr 17, 2014 04:24
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citybeatnik posted:System changes include: M20 is apparently doing something to talismans, i.e. giving us actual legitimate rules for them that aren't "um, make something up, I guess?" Which is probably the most extreme rules change in any 20th edition thing ever.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:45
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MJ12 posted:M20 is apparently doing something to talismans, i.e. giving us actual legitimate rules for them that aren't "um, make something up, I guess?" Which is probably the most extreme rules change in any 20th edition thing ever. I'm less than thrilled with M20 because 1) one of the developers behind it is full out whacko and 2) the "official" artwork for the Etherites changed them from "mad scientist surrounded by tesla coils" to "some random steampunk gal in a corset, we guess...?".
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Apr 17, 2014 17:50
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citybeatnik posted:I'm less than thrilled with M20 because 1) one of the developers behind it is full out whacko and 2) the "official" artwork for the Etherites changed them from "mad scientist surrounded by tesla coils" to "some random steampunk gal in a corset, we guess...?". what'd I miss?
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