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esquilax posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I doubt WWII Germany would have made a map that split out Austria, split up Yugoslavia, or predicted Kaliningrad so accutately. That map was based off of this Nazi propaganda poster.  Which in turn was based off of this.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:13
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esquilax posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I doubt WWII Germany would have made a map that split out Austria, split up Yugoslavia, or predicted Kaliningrad so accutately. It looks like a modern map with adjusted German borders based on some older map, probably WW2 propaganda. I remember seeing a map like that, maybe in this very thread? EDIT: Yup ^^^
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Apr 17, 2014 20:13
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Pakled posted:That map was based off of this Nazi propaganda poster. Heh, fair enough I guess. I would note that the three inconsistencies I found do not appear on the original propaganda map.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:16
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I like how the mapmaker even went to the trouble of renaming cities with German names in Switzerland, but then got to Bern and was all  . Come on, Verona was called Bern in the legends about Theoderic the Great, surely that stuff goes both ways.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:26
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 Kerouac's map of his first trip in On the Road.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:01
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Smirr posted:I like how the mapmaker even went to the trouble of renaming cities with German names in Switzerland, but then got to Bern and was all And for some reason Austria becomes Italian when it takes over a lot of Bavarian territory.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:05
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lullelulle posted:The siege of Constantinople, now called Istanbul. Somewhat relevant because of the Golden Dawn in Greece. What does this have to do with Golden Dawn?
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Apr 17, 2014 21:09
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Count Roland posted:What does this have to do with Golden Dawn? Golden dawn is quite irredentist and wants to revive the Megali Idea which would include 'retaking' Istanbul. 
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Apr 17, 2014 21:16
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Count Roland posted:What does this have to do with Golden Dawn? Edit: Yeah.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:17
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lullelulle posted:Golden dawn is quite irredentist and wants to revive the Megali Idea which would include 'retaking' Istanbul. haha, wow. Its only been 500+ years, why not? Might as well take Persia too, Alexander had it for a little while.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:28
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Count Roland posted:haha, wow. Its only been 500+ years, why not? Might as well take Persia too, Alexander had it for a little while. Sorry, that belongs to Macedonia:
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Apr 17, 2014 21:43
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Count Roland posted:haha, wow. Its only been 500+ years, why not? Might as well take Persia too, Alexander had it for a little while. Nationalists are a special people.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:47
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Count Roland posted:haha, wow. Its only been 500+ years, why not? Might as well take Persia too, Alexander had it for a little while. But Constantinople was the center and capital of the Eastern Actually, I think quite a few people in Europe would be happy about the Greeks taking Istanbul, because it would make Turkey ineligible to join the EU...
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Apr 17, 2014 21:49
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Count Roland posted:haha, wow. Its only been 500+ years, why not? Might as well take Persia too, Alexander had it for a little while. To be fair, even though it was ruled by the Ottomans/Turkey, there were a lot of Greeks living in those areas until the ethnic cleansing in the 1920s. Istanbul had a substantial Greek population until the pogroms in the '50s
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Apr 17, 2014 21:51
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lullelulle posted:Golden dawn is quite irredentist and wants to revive the Megali Idea which would include 'retaking' Istanbul. Then we could have a 4th crusade part 2 and raze Constantinople again, this time full of nazis.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:59
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Torrannor posted:But Constantinople was the center and capital of the Eastern No it wouldn't.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:03
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I would love to see Greek Nazis trying to take Istanbul, hopefully they would dress up like the spartans from 300 as well to make it even more hilarious.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:20
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lullelulle posted:Golden dawn is quite irredentist and wants to revive the Megali Idea which would include 'retaking' Istanbul. Its worth mentioning that some of the Anatolian coast had Greek majorities into the 20th century.  Luckily for Turkey 1914-1923 saw their Greek and Armenian problem disappear for some reason, still have to sort out the Kurds though! Here's a more detailed map from the period with unfortunate wording from said period (Mohammedans  ):
khwarezm fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 23:11
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What's the second group listed under "Mohammedans"? I can't read it even at full resolution.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:33
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e: misread
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Apr 17, 2014 23:35
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The Monkey Man posted:What's the second group listed under "Mohammedans"? I can't read it even at full resolution. Pomaks, or Bulgarian Muslims.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:36
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The Monkey Man posted:What's the second group listed under "Mohammedans"? I can't read it even at full resolution. e: nvm
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Apr 17, 2014 23:36
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Ormi posted:Sorry, that belongs to Macedonia: That map always confused me. Wasn't Alexander born in Pella? It was certainly his, and his father's, throne city. The city is within the borders of Greece, so why do Macedonians insist he was Macedonian and not Greek? I mean, I don't care about them calling themselves Macedonian, nor being proud of being the same ethnicity (are they even that?) or sharing history with Alexander the Great, but he's unambiguously born and was ruler of a state that lies within the borders of contemporary Greece, right? Or did all of my history textbooks and the museum in Pella lie to me? 
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Apr 18, 2014 00:01
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Count Roland posted:haha, wow. Its only been 500+ years, why not? Might as well take Persia too, Alexander had it for a little while. It really isn't that far-fetched, a lot of people at the turn of the twentieth century assumed that Istanbul would inevitably fall into Greek or at least European hands. It's one of the reasons Atatürk is seen as a hero in Turkey, he managed to keep Turkey from becoming a rump state and kickstarted Turkish nationalism and homogeneity in the process.
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Apr 18, 2014 00:05
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Deltasquid posted:That map always confused me. Wasn't Alexander born in Pella? It was certainly his, and his father's, throne city. The city is within the borders of Greece, so why do Macedonians insist he was Macedonian and not Greek? Complicating matters is that contemporary Greeks always viewed Alexander (and his dad Philip too for that matter) as barbarians, and since the Greek independence movement drew a lot of cultural propaganda from tying itself to Classical Greece, I can imagine that the mantle of "heirs of Alexander" is kinda sorta up for grabs. As for the "Greece owns that territory now so Alex should be remembered as Greek" bit, bear in mind that national borders have the somewhat annoying tendency to shift. Modern Greece originally just started off as the Peloponnese, Attica, and some islands. poo poo, even Bulgaria administered that region at one point or another (see: the Balkan Wars). Basically, it's really goddamn dumb to base nationalist fervor on figures and events that came and went 2300 years ago because historical accidents can change a shitton of the context of the past in the modern narrative. edit: hell, according to a bit of reading I did just after making this post it seems Central Macedonia is a bit less disputed than I thought. I coulda sworn Bulgaria administered Thessaloniki at one point but I guess that wasn't the case? Pictured: a map of the territorial gains after the First Balkan War, which is the one I thought the Ottomans ceded Thessaloniki to the Bulgarians: 
NEED TOILET PAPER fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 00:10
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And the issue is likely complicated by Israel (who else), with the period of Jewish rule over the holy land being over for much longer than nearly any other irredentist claims today, and they still got it back. It was a special situation, but I don't think too many irredentists care about that.
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Apr 18, 2014 00:10
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NEED TOILET PAPER posted:Complicating matters is that contemporary Greeks always viewed Alexander (and his dad Philip too for that matter) as barbarians, and since the Greek independence movement drew a lot of cultural propaganda from tying itself to Classical Greece, I can imagine that the mantle of "heirs of Alexander" is kinda sorta up for grabs. I suppose so, but they still spoke Greek and had a rather Greek culture that didn't exist in the area that is now Macedonia, right? Anyway, the whole debate is a huge can of worms to be opened.
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Apr 18, 2014 00:12
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Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure that map is a joke, anyway.
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Apr 18, 2014 00:17
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Deltasquid posted:I mean, I don't care about them calling themselves Macedonian, nor being proud of being the same ethnicity (are they even that?) Of course, they are their own Slav ethnicity with their own nation/Nope, they're just wayward Serbs and/or Bulgarians who are just deluding themselves There's also a debate about whether Montenegrins are a separate ethnicity with a different language than Serbs
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Apr 18, 2014 00:31
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Texas will be redeemed! Oklahoma out of occupied Greer County, Texas!  
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Apr 18, 2014 00:32
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VitalSigns posted:Texas will be redeemed! "Captain, we've entered...the Neutral Strip!!!"
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Apr 18, 2014 00:34
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Farecoal posted:"Captain, we've entered...the Neutral Strip!!!" I'm a sucker for weird contested strips  The Aouzou strip, a formerly contested territory annexed by Libya in 1936 but now part of Chad following the lengthy Libya-Chad conflict (culminating in the Toyota war).  The Caprivi strip, acquired by Imperial Germany to connect German South West Africa to the Zambezi (and thus Tanganyika). Namibia barely controlled it at the best of times and it served as an important crossroads in Southern Africa exploited by all sides during the Rhodesian Bush War and Angolan Civil War. It also had an active secessionist movement that tried to declare independence back in the 90's but got crushed pretty quickly (not sure how active they are now a days) kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 01:18
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kustomkarkommando posted:I'm a sucker for weird contested strips That Caprivi Strip map actually is two politically-loaded maps in one: It highlights the Bantustans separately from South Africa.  EDIT: Another fun fact: while under illegal South African rule (depicted in your image, since Namibia is labeled South-West Africa with a date of 1986), Namibia had its own Bantustans: 
ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 03:15
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Bushmanland needs to exist.
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Apr 18, 2014 03:33
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Mu Cow posted:Bushmanland needs to exist. You're focusing on that rather than on Bastardland?
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Apr 18, 2014 03:36
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Why isn't Tswanaland part of Botswana? Or, following up on the inevitable "lol colonial borders" answer, why isn't Tswanaland a bone of contention between Namibia and Botswana if Tswana people actually live there?
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Apr 18, 2014 03:39
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Ofaloaf posted:Why isn't Tswanaland part of Botswana? Or, following up on the inevitable "lol colonial borders" answer, why isn't Tswanaland a bone of contention between Namibia and Botswana if Tswana people actually live there? There are more Tswana in South Africa than people in Botswana, yet there doesn't seem to be any sort of movement to join them. Also the Tswanaland bantustan was in practice mostly inhabited by Herero people who were not even moved out by the apartheid government, presumably because the exceptionally low (less than 1%) population of Tswana in Namibia meant that the territory would have been basically empty had they done so. Basil Hayden fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 03:48
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Ofaloaf posted:Why isn't Tswanaland part of Botswana? Or, following up on the inevitable "lol colonial borders" answer, why isn't Tswanaland a bone of contention between Namibia and Botswana if Tswana people actually live there? There's a lot of different Tswana groups. I think there's more Tswana living in South Africa than anywhere else, but they're a majority in Botswana. They certainly aren't confined to that small square shown in the map.
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Apr 18, 2014 03:48
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kustomkarkommando posted:I'm a sucker for weird contested strips Stuff like this reminds me of Bir Tawil, which may be my favorite place in the world due to the politics of it:  It's in neither Egypt nor Sudan (according to Egypt and Sudan). Basically long story short, at the turn of the century, there was a straight line created by The White Man at the 22nd parallel, it got tweaked a bit later, which changed the boundaries. Both country claims the border that gives them The Hala'ib Triangle. This leads to neither claiming Bir Tawil. And I know this has been posted in this thread but it's just so political 
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Apr 18, 2014 04:01
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khwarezm posted:Its worth mentioning that some of the Anatolian coast had Greek majorities into the 20th century.  Makes one wonder what happened to all the Turks living in Northern Greece. Its almost as though the entire Balkans and Anatolia consists of nations with lots of blood on their hands. Seriously what happened in 1920 was the culmination of 100 years of violence by the various nations.
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Apr 18, 2014 04:34
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