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lol if you don't think all the honest independent tradesmen and labourers gladly take cash in hand. it's cash in hand. don't report it you numpty. spend it, you'll pay VAT on whatever you buy.
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Apr 18, 2014 13:01
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JFairfax posted:hard-up 
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Apr 18, 2014 13:10
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There's a minimum level of 'cash in hand' you have to receive before you need to declare VAT anyway, I can't remember what it is though, my memory wants to say £1500/yr or £3000/yr. Obviously you should be declaring it as income though, although if you aren't likely to hit the income tax threshold, you can probably get away with it legally. e: Tortoise-chat - interesting to note that cloaca is also used for breathing by tortoises/turtles (breathing out your rear end/vagina? that has to suck), so mating isn't the only way it can become injured. SybilVimes fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 13:10
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SybilVimes posted:There's a minimum level of 'cash in hand' you have to receive before you need to declare VAT anyway, I can't remember what it is though, my memory wants to say £1500/yr or £3000/yr. I don't think this is true at all, it's income and it contributes to your overall income for the year there's no secondary tax-free cap for it. Also yeah obviously plenty of people take cash in hand and don't report it, but the only difference from Cayman Island accounts is scale (which admittedly if the labourer is geniunely hard up can make a difference morally).
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Apr 18, 2014 13:17
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I'm not very hard up, but I'm a full time PhD student so I don't pay income tax on my stipend, and I haven't had to start paying off my student loan yet. How do I declare it as income? Just take it to the bank and let them deal with it?
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Apr 18, 2014 13:19
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Boing posted:Does this count as pay? Do I need to pay VAT and income tax on it? Do I take it to my bank and let them sort it out? I don't know the Correct procedure in this case. Yes, it's income. Tax yes, VAT no. (unless you're vat registered - which IIRC requires a turnover of about £81k a year) Put it in your bank, tell the tax office how much you got. If your taxable income for the year is below £10000 you wont pay any tax.
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Apr 18, 2014 13:22
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You don't need to be VAT registered unless you sell >£81,000 of VAT liable goods/services. So that's not a problem. But any income counts towards your income tax thresholds so if you're over the ~£9,000-10,000 threshold already then that income is supposed to be taxed via a self declaration at the end of the year. And you should do it to be correct imo unless Philip Green is also correct. Edit: beaten by the taxman
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Apr 18, 2014 13:26
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On the recent youth-chat: a decent poll has been conducted of students (which is surprisingly rare). It finds a few things, but the headlines are: unsurprisingly, the Lib Dems are at their lowest point amongst students since 2004. The Greens are at their highest ever level. Students want to remain in Europe pretty overwhelmingly (83%). Scottish students want to stay in the UK about as much as the rest of the Scottish electorate (51% no to 35% yes). National party preference- Lab 43%, Con 24%, Green 14%, Lib Dem 6%, UKIP 5%. No idea if this is less left wing than previous generations of students, but given that these lot grew up under Blair, and most won't even remember a Conservative majority, I'd expect them to be considerably less anti-Tory than a generation that grew up with Thatcher. Obviously this misses out a lot of young people; it misses everyone who didn't go to university and graduates of the mid twenties to mid thirties range, but who even knows if they count as 'youth'? Also, this graph is pretty cool and does tell the story of students being the contrarian shits that everyone knows them to be. Well, to be fair to them, a large proportion of the electorate seem to only ever vote for the opposition, so it's not just students. Alecto fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 13:43
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Semprini posted:Taxman here. GET HIM
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Apr 18, 2014 13:43
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JFairfax posted:lol if you don't think all the honest independent tradesmen and labourers gladly take cash in hand. This is literal tax evasion. Can't really bitch about bankers then!
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Apr 18, 2014 13:53
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yes it's tax evasion. that's why cash in hand work once in a while is quite nice. funnily enough it looks as though in this instance it will make no difference whether Boing reports it or not as he is a full time student who has a stipend, not an a taxable wage and welp. but seriously, if you're so correct you're never paying cash in hand or taking cash in hand ever in your life you're a mug. I mean smoking weed and taking mdma are illegal, are you saying we shouldn't do that either? or can't moan about the drug laws / prison system if we do? JFairfax fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 14:00
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JFairfax posted:yes it's tax evasion. that's why cash in hand work once in a while is quite nice. The entire second half of your post bears no relation whatsoever to his point - which is that people here are advocating tax evasion in this case when they would presumably decry it in others. I don't even agree with him, but you're being completely disingenuous here and willfully misinterpreting his post.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:09
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Malcolm XML posted:This is literal tax evasion. Can't really bitch about bankers then! The law is absolute. Stealing from a shop to feed your starving family is exactly the same as a smash 'n grab. Funnelling the entirety of your substantial pay through a company based in the Cayman Islands to avoid tax is exactly the same as not paying tax on £100 cash in hand.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:15
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To stop everyone getting it wrong as this argument goes on: Tax planning - Using the tax laws as parliament intended. (eg Investing in an ISA to get tax-free savings) Tax avoidance - Using loopholes in the law to get an effect parliament did not intend. (eg Carr, J) Tax evasion - Just flat-out not paying tax you owe (eg cash in hand work) The first one is fine. The second is technically legal but morally dubious. The third is illegal.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:20
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I thought deontology of the sort some in this thread appear to advocate went out of fashion a few decades ago. Well at least it's still good for a little bit of rhetorical flourish.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:28
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Don't evade tax you colossal fucks Also the tortoise guy isn't a goon but I do know him - he works at one of the local gig venues.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:28
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JFairfax posted:but seriously, if you're so correct you're never paying cash in hand or taking cash in hand ever in your life you're a mug. Legality has nothing (or very little) to do with it. The principle of paying tax on your earnings in order to support (among other things) a welfare state is one that this thread in general agrees with. From each according to their ability, and all that. Evading your tax liability runs contrary to that thought and makes you a hypocrite and/or a bastard. Drug use is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:31
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sebzilla posted:Drug use is irrelevant to this discussion. Do you think the people that sell illegal drugs pay tax on their earnings? Therefore, if you buy illegal drugs you are a bastard and a hypocrite.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:39
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a var of piss posted:I thought deontology of the sort some in this thread appear to advocate went out of fashion a few decades ago. Well at least it's still good for a little bit of rhetorical flourish. It's almost as if a significant portion of the British left is driven more by a desire for narcissistic self-aggrandizement than by any concern for the working class or, indeed, other people in general.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:44
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JFairfax posted:yes it's tax evasion. that's why cash in hand work once in a while is quite nice. Don't forget NI contributions! actually bankers often engage in tax avoidance which is perfectly legal, whereas not reporting income for work is straight up evasion and is illegal (get a tax lawyer if you want a more precise definition) The point is that he should report it and pay any tax or NI due unless he's got a way of avoiding that. It's morally wrong to evade taxes. Avoiding taxes is another question. Don't falsely equivocate that with drug laws. Semprini posted:To stop everyone getting it wrong as this argument goes on: Yeah this except it is not at all obvious that what hmrc thinks and what parliament intended are the same.
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Apr 18, 2014 14:45
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namesake posted:I don't think this is true at all, it's income and it contributes to your overall income for the year there's no secondary tax-free cap for it. The only difference between the proletariat and bourgeoisie is scale. No, wait, this is terrible analysis, and wrong, and one of the reasons the "left" today is a laughing stock. Are you this morally outraged about widespread tax avoidance by contractors, including NHS contractors? (Be "self-employed", avoid being taxed above 25k or whatever. Saves a lot) If not, why not?
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Apr 18, 2014 15:02
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JFairfax posted:A lot of urophiles up in this thread. e/ actualy just realised no-one is willing to piss on him lol! Would you want to live 90 years without your cock?
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Apr 18, 2014 15:03
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It wouldn't be the UKMT without at least one bullshit derail.
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Apr 18, 2014 15:10
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(I mean the cash-in-hand thing, not the tortoise cock, which is a worthy and relevant subject of discussion.)
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Apr 18, 2014 15:11
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Kegluneq posted:Pissing on him would just alleviate the pain of the sting. Instead, I'd set him on fire (then still refuse to piss on him, as a matter of previously stated principle). Urine doesn't actually alleviate the pain of the sting at all (well no more than just water would) and depending on the jellyfish could make matters worse, so I vote for pissing on him while telling him that it's raining, exactly like he's been doing to the country.
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Apr 18, 2014 15:24
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Jedit posted:Would you want to live 90 years without your cock? No, I'm not a troon
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Apr 18, 2014 15:28
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Urine doesn't actually alleviate the pain of the sting at all (well no more than just water would) and depending on the jellyfish could make matters worse, so I vote for pissing on him while telling him that it's raining, exactly like he's been doing to the country. Can I opt for telling him that the only cure is more
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Apr 18, 2014 15:28
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Pissflaps posted:Do you think the people that sell illegal drugs pay tax on their earnings?
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Apr 18, 2014 15:32
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CountButtula posted:The only difference between the proletariat and bourgeoisie is scale. My point was focused entirely on what activity is done to reduce liabilities on received income, not what causes them to receive income. There's no class element to that except for the fact that bourgeois have more money to hide and more methods available to them to hide it so they tend to avoid it rather than evade it. I'd suggest it's your analysis which is terrible if you're willing to excuse behaviours just because a member of the working class does it, leading to no firm principles of society and resorting to sheer populist banker bashing.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:46
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CountButtula posted:Can I opt for telling him that the only cure is more This jellyfish is making the hard stings that the previous jellyfish has refused to make.
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Apr 18, 2014 17:54
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Hope it wasn't one of those foreign jellyfish, taking stings from hard-working British Jellyfish.
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Apr 18, 2014 17:56
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KKKlean Energy posted:This jellyfish is making the hard stings that the previous jellyfish has refused to make. The jellyfish was helping break the cycle of dependency on the sea for support Semprini posted:To stop everyone getting it wrong as this argument goes on: Just a little correction there
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Apr 18, 2014 18:04
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Malcolm XML posted:It's morally wrong to evade taxes. Avoiding taxes is another question. No it isn't, both are morally wrong to an equally proportional degree of how much you gently caress over your fellow man. They are legally different. Law is not morality, which is where the drug comparison comes in. However as already pointed out buying drugs means aiding tax evasion. I am totally happy with this because I do not have a legal alternative. If the government want to refuse money out of blind and idiotic pandering to a moral panic of their own creation, it's not my loving problem. If I'm in favour of, write articles about, and would vote for drug legalisation, then I'm offering to pay more VAT. I can't just send HMRC a brown paper bag and write "I smoked some weed this year, here's 17.5%". Semprini posted:Anecdotally, it's more common than you might think for them to declare income to try and appear legitimate / fend off proceeds of crime proceedings. This sounds hilarious, how does it work? If I ever bothered to do tax reports for my music I suppose I could slip in an extra £100 busked a week or something, but that's five grand. Most of the dealers I know don't make much money because they move small volume or high volume but with weirdly small markups. I can't see how you effectively summon money out of thin air like that without getting nailed as soon as the taxman comes. Spangly A fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 18:08
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Half of them seem to drive taxis, which might be to do with that. It probably has the added bonus that people don't look as closely when you're driving all over town at weird hours and people keep getting in and out of your car. e: also most of them seem to drive about as badly as your average taxi driver, but maybe that's just so they blend in XMNN fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 18:14
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Spangly A posted:This sounds hilarious, how does it work? There's more to it than that, obviously, but old bill watching the thread etc...
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Apr 18, 2014 18:23
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Semprini posted:Start a business that's mostly cash-based (taxi driver, car wash etc). Report to taxman that you're the best drat car wash in town, just look at all these profits. I'm disappointed that it didn't live up to my mental image of a drug dealer writing out receipts.
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Apr 18, 2014 18:27
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JFairfax posted:No, I'm not a troon Was that really necessary?
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Apr 18, 2014 18:30
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Semprini posted:Start a business that's mostly cash-based (taxi driver, car wash etc). Report to taxman that you're the best drat car wash in town, just look at all these profits. You're saying that cab drivers and car wash owners got the good poo poo. I understand. Wink wink.
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Apr 18, 2014 18:36
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Spangly A posted:This sounds hilarious, how does it work? If I ever bothered to do tax reports for my music I suppose I could slip in an extra £100 busked a week or something, but that's five grand. Most of the dealers I know don't make much money because they move small volume or high volume but with weirdly small markups. I can't see how you effectively summon money out of thin air like that without getting nailed as soon as the taxman comes. How often and whereabouts do you busk? I'm always tempted to give it a go but can never arse myself.
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Apr 18, 2014 18:38
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Coohoolin posted:How often and whereabouts do you busk? I'm always tempted to give it a go but can never arse myself. Canterbury now, which is mostly dreadful so I rarely bother. I used to get £20 an hour at peak times in Ramsgate (the three market hours on sat/sun and school runs on weekdays). It's performance art, not music. Just belt out a mix of popular covers and some dancy written stuff while getting as many people as you can involved, tourists are good for this. You want an area with a high volume of people stopping briefly, so tourist photograph spots and shops are good (shops will chase you though). People walking past don't throw money at you so high streets are usually a bit crap. In low hours I used to play more of my own material and would occasionally get phone numbers and gig offers but unless you're Rodrigo y Gabriella you want to focus on entertainment, not talent.
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Apr 18, 2014 18:45
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