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MothraAttack posted:Yeah, I think ISIS only accepts nasheeds and that Deso Dogg gave up the musical game entirely. Unfortunately for us, their propaganda is thus deprived of MIDI-scored gems such as those found here. I wish i knew more Arabic because i'd love to have a big rear end playlist of Arabic war songs. They have such a great beat and the singing (that's nasheed right?) is so sick. It's the perfect workout music.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:25
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Muscle Tracer posted:Actually, we're discussing Assad's use of chemical weapons. Discussion of other entities' uses of white phosphorus are tangential at best, and deflection and Assad apologia at worst. This thread is larger than Assad's use of chemical weapons and it always has been, and if you want to accuse me of being an Assad apologist then you better some proof other than bringing up a topic you don't like. Btw, it isn't the first time in this thread someone has used the critique "Assad apologist" in a ham-fisted manner. Btw, and no, I don't "like" the Assad regime and I know they have murdered civilians in many different ways including chemical weapons. However, if you are going to talk about the morality of the actions of the regime then you better be prepared for some contrasting examples and their responses. Otherwise, if the only issue at this point is the question is whether he used them or not, then it has been solved (at least as far as this thread is concerned and rightfully so). As far as Hersh and co, they picked a very poor hill to fight on and he personally put his reputation on the line for a very weak argument. On the flip-side, Brown Moses picked a very strong one.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:32
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Ardennes posted:This thread is larger than Assad's use of chemical weapons and it always has been, and if you want to accuse me of being an Assad apologist then you better some proof other than bringing up a topic you don't like. Btw, it isn't the first time in this thread someone has used the critique "Assad apologist" in a ham-fisted manner. I don't think that Assad apologia comment was directed at you, but instead, at posters like BabyChoom who keep trying to draw an equivalency argument between the US and Syrian governments in their conduct of war.
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Apr 23, 2014 17:41
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Ardennes posted:This thread is larger than Assad's use of chemical weapons and it always has been, and if you want to accuse me of being an Assad apologist then you better some proof other than bringing up a topic you don't like. Btw, it isn't the first time in this thread someone has used the critique "Assad apologist" in a ham-fisted manner. Perhaps your argument would be better served by actually constructing an argument, rather than getting angry about what you're not saying. So far you have said that white phosphorus can burn things, and also it is bad, and that you don't like Assad. Are you actually attempting to make a point, and if so, perhaps you would consider making it, btw? I have yet to see any connection drawn between Assad's murder of civilians and other entities' use of WP other than "but other people also did bad things."
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Apr 23, 2014 18:10
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Muscle Tracer posted:Perhaps your argument would be better served by actually constructing an argument, rather than getting angry about what you're not saying. So far you have said that white phosphorus can burn things, and also it is bad, and that you don't like Assad. Are you actually attempting to make a point, and if so, perhaps you would consider making it, btw? I have yet to see any connection drawn between Assad's murder of civilians and other entities' use of WP other than "but other people also did bad things." I guess you have switched tactics, now it is okay to talk about the issue. Anyway, the point is actually an open question about where do go from here. We know Assad used these weapons and many civilians died, there is the honest question still of what should be done. The issue of WP meant to purposefully provide a recent contrasting example, specifically where is the line drawn on chemical versus other unconventional weapons and why? How important are numbers killed and how important is if the target was purposefully civilian or civilians were simply collateral damage? I use word contrasting because I don't think the use of WP in Fallujah was as serious simply in terms of numbers killed, but on the other hand I believe it still serious, and something that does need to be addressed. Granted, there is also the larger issue of moving on from the topic of the use chemical weapons themselves and moving to the larger question of what its use actually means. Obviously, there are others outside this thread that have their interpretation of that use but it is unclear if that is actually that important at this point or if their arguements should be the main topic of discussion. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 18:44
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Hamas and Fatah have apparently reconciled.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:11
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Sisi will get his Apaches, at last.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:33
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McDowell posted:Hamas and Fatah have apparently reconciled. Prepare for Israel to try and scupper that with a sudden wave of assassinations and provocations, then...
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Apr 23, 2014 20:18
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Speaking of Israel, some kids in south Lebanon accidentally blew themselves and a house up a few days ago carrying one back home. I know you can never really be sure an area is completely un-mined but it still depresses me that it's so prevalent over here. Are there any international laws on mine usage? Not that'd it matter but I'm interested and all I could find were regional ones.
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Apr 23, 2014 20:27
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I'm reading from Presstv and Dailystar.lb it was a naval mine in their backyard in the northernmost district. If that's the case I think they don't come with the same issues as with ground based mines as long as they're not put on shipping lanes. Also I thought those things weighed hundreds of pounds. Lead Psychiatry fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 20:39
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Lead Psychiatry posted:I'm reading from Presstv and Dailystar.lb it was a naval mine in their backyard. If that's the case I think they don't come with the same issues as with ground based mines as long as they're not put on shipping lanes. I remember some reports from 6-9 months ago (?) of naval mines being dropped on land. Baffling then, baffling now. e: found one. PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 21:13
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HGH posted:Are there any international laws on mine usage? Not that'd it matter but I'm interested and all I could find were regional ones. There's a treaty, but neither Israel or Lebanon has signed it (or the US, Russia, or China, for that matter).
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Apr 23, 2014 21:13
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McDowell posted:Hamas and Fatah have apparently reconciled. This didn't really go anywhere a few years ago, I guess we'll give it another try. Sure would shake up regional politics if it succeeded.
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Apr 23, 2014 22:26
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Count Roland posted:This didn't really go anywhere a few years ago, I guess we'll give it another try. Sure would shake up regional politics if it succeeded. I've been reading that this is a response to the breakdown of talks with Israel, Netanyahu or somebody in the Israeli government throwing down the gauntlet and declaring that Abbas can either make peace with Israel or Hamas. Seeing as how Israel doesn't seem all that interested it's not surprising they went for the latter.
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Apr 23, 2014 22:38
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Muffiner posted:Sisi will get his Apaches, at last. He's learned his lesson! Let's give him some presents. 
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Apr 23, 2014 23:35
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illrepute posted:I've been reading that this is a response to the breakdown of talks with Israel, Netanyahu or somebody in the Israeli government throwing down the gauntlet and declaring that Abbas can either make peace with Israel or Hamas. Seeing as how Israel doesn't seem all that interested it's not surprising they went for the latter. The PLO and Hamas are at loggerheads. Israel: "There's no point negotiating, because There's no unified Palestinian authority to deal with!" The PLO and Hamas reconcile. Israel: "We cannot negotiate with a Palestinian authority that includes Hamas!"
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Apr 24, 2014 02:30
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Umiapik posted:The PLO and Hamas are at loggerheads. Exactly! I was surprised to read Israel's critique of this move, although maybe I shouldn't be. They could at least pretend like they care if it helps moderate Hamas. But they want Hamas to dissolve completely then PLO takes over the strip, I guess. It does make Israel confront their hypocrisy on the unified negotiating front bit.
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Apr 24, 2014 04:47
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Mans posted:I wish i knew more Arabic because i'd love to have a big rear end playlist of Arabic war songs. They have such a great beat and the singing (that's nasheed right?) is so sick. Nasheed is actually just acapella chanting, like that used in this video of a drive-by attack (ignore the title -- they're attacking a checkpoint). The song in the other link is a Syrianized and repurposed version of a 1980s Iraqi patriotic song. Nasheeds can be strangely catchy.
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Apr 24, 2014 04:53
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Muscle Tracer posted:Perhaps your argument would be better served by actually constructing an argument, rather than getting angry about what you're not saying. So far you have said that white phosphorus can burn things, and also it is bad, and that you don't like Assad. Are you actually attempting to make a point, and if so, perhaps you would consider making it, btw? I have yet to see any connection drawn between Assad's murder of civilians and other entities' use of WP other than "but other people also did bad things." Is your point that to condemn Assad we must be on a moral high ground and the only way to do that is to ignore everything we have ever done in the past? I asked a simple question about white phosphorus and "nonlethal" lethal agents that both America and Israel have used against civilians in massacres in the middle east in the middle east thread. Would you care to answer it or just attack people.
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Apr 24, 2014 04:55
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BabyChoom posted:Is your point that to condemn Assad we must be on a moral high ground and the only way to do that is to ignore everything we have ever done in the past? I asked a simple question about white phosphorus and "nonlethal" lethal agents that both America and Israel have used against civilians in massacres in the middle east in the middle east thread. Would you care to answer it or just attack people. You didn't really ask a coherent question at all. You asked why Assad doesn't used white phosphorus -- he does. You asked why he doesn't try to act like the chlorine attacks have legitimate military applications? To answer that we'd have to know what he's thinking with regards to his war propaganda and then we'd just be stipulating. I can tell you exactly why the US and Israel spend a lot of effort to whitewash their use of WP.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:07
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Half the poo poo the Assad regime has done has little or no military justification, from recklessly shelling Baba Amr to using improvised barrel bombs. I remember when reports of those first surfaced in late 2012, and Assad fanboys claimed it was an opposition fairy tale until videos emerged. This line of criticism also extends to rebel tactics, like the siege of West Aleppo or use of car bombings. Most of us here, American or not, have brains enough to realize that all sides are capable of bad stuff.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:50
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MothraAttack posted:Half the poo poo the Assad regime has done has little or no military justification, from recklessly shelling Baba Amr to using improvised barrel bombs. That's true, but nothing he has done is really any "worse" than what was done in Iraq, hence why people are pointing out that the US has basically no moral ground to sit on.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:54
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enbot posted:That's true, but nothing he has done is really any "worse" than what was done in Iraq, hence why people are pointing out that the US has basically no moral ground to sit on. Just for example, Abu Ghraib was bad but that doesn't make it equivalent to the mass execution of thousands of prisoners.
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Apr 24, 2014 05:58
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BabyChoom posted:Is your point that to condemn Assad we must be on a moral high ground and the only way to do that is to ignore everything we have ever done in the past? I asked a simple question about white phosphorus and "nonlethal" lethal agents that both America and Israel have used against civilians in massacres in the middle east in the middle east thread. Would you care to answer it or just attack people. No, my stance is the opposite. You must be projecting your own opinions again: BabyChoom posted:It must say something that even the US government admits that the rebels are using child soldiers as suicide bombers. Seeing as how the USA is one of the primary backers of the rebels. As for the answer to your question, it was answered immediately.
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Apr 24, 2014 06:09
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Muscle Tracer posted:No, my stance is the opposite. You must be projecting your own opinions again: quote:As for the answer to your question, it was answered immediately. I don't even know what you are talking about right now.
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Apr 24, 2014 06:27
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enbot posted:That's true, but nothing he has done is really any "worse" than what was done in Iraq, hence why people are pointing out that the US has basically no moral ground to sit on. Well, I'm glad no one in here is speaking on behalf of the US? Babychoom seems to think people are, or something.
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Apr 24, 2014 06:30
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Would anyone be interested in an Iraq elections thread? I'm going to be doing a write up on it this weekend and figured I could start a thread while I'm at it since I'll be watching them until a government is formed (hopefully it's less than the projected 18-24 months). Or I can just drop posts in here, I'm fine with either.
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Apr 24, 2014 06:32
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Bait and Swatch posted:Would anyone be interested in an Iraq elections thread? I'm going to be doing a write up on it this weekend and figured I could start a thread while I'm at it since I'll be watching them until a government is formed (hopefully it's less than the projected 18-24 months). Or I can just drop posts in here, I'm fine with either. I think that would be fantastic. This thread is always too cluttered with discussion about whatever attack happened most recently for election talk.
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Apr 24, 2014 08:25
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Deteriorata posted:That makes TNT a chemical weapon, too. Definitions matter. Of course, my bad. The point I was trying poorly to make is that WP and Chlorine are both considered chemical weapons by the definition in the relevant conventions, which wiki tells me is a device "that uses chemicals formulated to inflict death or harm on human beings."
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Apr 24, 2014 09:39
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Guys, BabyChoom is clearly Assad in disguise, or mentally ill. I don't know why you keep arguing with him. Nothing he posts makes sense outside of his head.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:50
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I was just asking why Assad isn't using white phosphorus which was extensively used in Iraq to force entrenched forces out into the open so that they could be mowed down by US machine guns. This was known as shake and bake and their is an excellent documentary about it from people who participated in the obliteration of the city of Fallujah. White phosphorus was also used by Israelis in an election related massacre in the Gaza strip. Setting fire to civilian areas as well as burning alive little girls in UN schools. The US and Israel have both used chemical agents that they claim are "non-lethal in their various war zones and military occupations. Has Assad used those same chemical agents to dislodge entrenched militants out into the open so that his forces can easily mow them down as well? Both the US and Israel have used cancer causing heavy metals like depleted Uranium and tungsten flechette. Which have shown to have long lasting negative consequences to civilian populations. Has Assad used any of these weapons or is it to costly and complex to create these cancer causing munitions? All I'm asking is why isn't it reported that Assad isn't using WP, the various carcinogenic heavy metals that pollute entire regions with cancer causing particles, and "non lethal" lethal chemical agents. It isn't really a debate when people just out and out accuse me of being a shill, mentally ill, and an Assad supporter.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:19
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Actually I don't know if he has or hasn't used WP in an offensive sense, he probably hasn't used depleted uranium though. Nevertheless, he has used gas based chemical weapons against civilian areas which the US nor Israel has done. Also, I do think Assad's attacks are more serious simply based on numbers, which are at least several thousand dead and maimed at this point. It doesn't mean a comparison or a discussion is meaningless but there needs to be a consensus on the lethality and culpability of the gas attacks.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:30
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'I was just asking why Assad isn't using white phosphorus...' and then the eyes go glassy and we get a short rant about US 'obliteration' and Israeli 'massacre' and then they go back to normal for a moment for 'All I'm asking is why it isn't reported that Assad is using WP' and then the twitch and the voice develops a sort of monotone drone for 'pollute entire regions' and '"non-lethal" lethal', then we're back to normality for a coda wondering why on earth people think there's something odd about my posts??? I'm just asking questions.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:35
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BabyChoom posted:I was just asking why Assad isn't using white phosphorus which was extensively used in Iraq to force entrenched forces out into the open so that they could be mowed down by US machine guns. This was known as shake and bake and their is an excellent documentary about it from people who participated in the obliteration of the city of Fallujah. A war crime is a war crime. I don't think I've seen any evidence that Assad used WP.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:44
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I'm not sure about WP, but they've used other incendiary weapons. http://m.hrw.org/news/2012/12/12/syria-incendiary-weapons-used-populated-areas
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Apr 24, 2014 14:02
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:A war crime is a war crime. I don't think I've seen any evidence that Assad used WP. Some of the incendiary bombs used have WP in them, and there's been some use if WP artillery shells by both sides.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:03
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Just because the US did a thing doesn't mean that it is now open season for everyone to do that thing.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:06
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Requesting a ban for myself next time I feed the trolls ITT. My shame knows no bounds.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:19
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The LA Times is running an article stating that about 90% of Assad's declared stockpiles of CW have been removed from Syria. Do you suppose this has something to do with the switch from Sarin to Chlorine gas in barrel bombs dropped by aircraft in the recent reports? Has the United Nations made a commitment to reducing chlorine stockpiles under the agreement as well?
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Apr 24, 2014 15:29
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BabyChoom posted:I was just asking why Assad isn't using white phosphorus which was extensively used in Iraq to force entrenched forces out into the open so that they could be mowed down by US machine guns. This was known as shake and bake and their is an excellent documentary about it from people who participated in the obliteration of the city of Fallujah. loving lol people are actually responding to you, congratulations you've won.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:46
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