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ded posted:So uhhh.. who is this? That's clearly Isabel Rochev.
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Apr 24, 2014 10:57
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So just read through this thread [EDIT: for this most recent episode]and read untagged spoilers about character deaths in a Justified season that only just finished and character deaths in two movies I haven't yet seen. Thanks guys  If you're going to spoil anything, especially if it's a show completely unrelated to Arrow in any way, use spoiler tags. It's not hard, christ. Arcanen fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 11:47
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Moira was seriously my favourite character, so this episode greatly saddened me. She was kind of a wild card, since aside from protecting her family, you were rarely sure about what she was going to do, or what the next story involving her would be: would she be trying to reconnect with her daughter or have her husband kidnapped to ensure her silence? She could be both a concerned mother and a dangerous antagonist without either role ringing false. She was a completely normal (corrupt business)woman in a world of masked vigilantes and ancient death cults, comfortable with both family drama and supervillain intrigue. I have a feeling that they had much more stories to tell with her, so I'm afraid the show will be poorer without her. e: ^^^ Spoilering this for the sake of people who haven't watched the episode and don't want to see spoilers on the top of the page. Somebody fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 11:59
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:e: ^^^ Spoilering this for the sake of people who haven't watched the episode and don't want to see spoilers on the top of the page. Don't use spoilers for stuff that's already aired.
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Apr 24, 2014 12:17
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I legitimately think that it was a mistake for the show to kill off Moira, because she was an actual interesting villain that was more complex than the typical "grr I'm bad and I'm going to rob and kill you" bad guys that these kinds of shows typically use. While clearly a bad person, oftentimes it was easy to see how and why she came to make the choices that she had, and her willingness to do anything for her family gave the character an interesting dynamic. I feel like there were so many unexplored paths that they could have taken with Moira, so her sudden death in the show came too soon. What's up with Sara going "peace out" though? It seems like it couldn't have been at a worse possible time. "Hey Ollie, I know there is this unstoppable killing machine gunning for your family, and you are trying to deal with drugged-out Roy, Thea being mad at you for the whole lying thing, and a broken leg, but I gotta jet. Things to do you know? It's not you, it's me though. Later!"
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Apr 24, 2014 13:54
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Moira wasn't a villain.
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Apr 24, 2014 13:56
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Aphrodite posted:Moira wasn't a villain. This. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting she is. She's a person who fell in with bad people, got in way over her head, and did what she thought she had to do to survive. There was never the slightest hint that she was anything other than an unwilling participant cooperating with Malcolm's undertaking under duress. At worst, she's morally ambiguous, but she was never evil.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:05
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imperialparadox posted:What's up with Sara going "peace out" though? It seems like it couldn't have been at a worse possible time. "Hey Ollie, I know there is this unstoppable killing machine gunning for your family, and you are trying to deal with drugged-out Roy, Thea being mad at you for the whole lying thing, and a broken leg, but I gotta jet. Things to do you know? It's not you, it's me though. Later!" Sara told Sin she is going to see an old friend (probably Nyssa, and return to the League in exchange for them taking out Slade). She may be splitting up with Oliver on a romantic level, but she is not about to let him fight Slade alone.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:11
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VagueRant posted:As for Slade, I'm wondering if they'll cure him of his madness after the big final battle and he'll be repentant and run off and become a recurring anti-hero. He killed Moira, there's no redemption from that. Dude is loving dead, only question is how Ollie is gonna kill him.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:14
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Nyssa and the ninjas will show up. Ollie cures Slade and Roy, less crazy Slade escapes. Ravager kills Sara, Thea runs off with Nyssa.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:18
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WarLocke posted:He killed Moira, there's no redemption from that. Dude is loving dead, only question is how Ollie is gonna kill him. If that's true, I wonder if the island flashbacks with him "killing" Slade are going to coincide with current timeline actually killing Slade. I don't know if it's really too late for him to be redeemed, one of the themes of the season is that Ollie "can't be the killer he once was" after all. raditts fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 14:28
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raditts posted:If that's true, I wonder if the island flashbacks with him "killing" Slade are going to coincide with current timeline actually killing Slade. I don't know if it's really too late for him to be redeemed, one of the themes of the season is that Ollie "can't be the killer he once was" after all. Ollie's going to cure Slade, then Slade, now sane, is going to kill himself when he realizes what he's done.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:33
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raditts posted:If that's true, I wonder if the island flashbacks with him "killing" Slade are going to coincide with current timeline actually killing Slade. I don't know if it's really too late for him to be redeemed, one of the themes of the season is that Ollie "can't be the killer he once was" after all. The other themes being that he holds back, convinced he can save everyone long past everyone else giving up on saving people, and that he makes horribly bad decisions. 
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Apr 24, 2014 14:39
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ten_twentyfour posted:Ollie's going to cure Slade, then Slade, now sane, is going to kill himself when he realizes what he's done. Does Deathstroke never join the Suicide Squad?
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Apr 24, 2014 14:40
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Does Deathstroke never join the Suicide Squad? Maybe he gets confused into thinking that suicide is the criteria for getting into the squad.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:42
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Yea there's no way Ollie will actually be the one to kill Slade, if it happens at all. The whole point of the storyline has been that he "killed" Slade on the island instead of trying to save him, so inevitably Ollie will have another chance to finish him and this time he'll make a different choice. Then Ra's will stab him in the heart out of nowhere. The last scene of the season will be Slade's eyes opening after a dunk in the Lazarus pit.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:54
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I was honestly surprised they killed Moira off. I fully expected Slade to get lit up with a bunch of black arrows, seeing as how he probably already got Malcolm Merlyn's attention by broadcasting Thea's kidnapping a while back, and then threatening to kill her or Moira.
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Apr 24, 2014 14:54
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WarLocke posted:He killed Moira, there's no redemption from that. Dude is loving dead, only question is how Ollie is gonna kill him. The Lord Bude posted:This. I don't know why everyone keeps insisting she is. She's a person who fell in with bad people, got in way over her head, and did what she thought she had to do to survive. There was never the slightest hint that she was anything other than an unwilling participant cooperating with Malcolm's undertaking under duress. Never mind the time she shot Arrow, her involvement in the shipwreck, what she did to her second husband, her constant lying and the fact this super corporate rich lady decided she was a better candidate for Mayor than the guy who actually had a record WITH and expressed an interest IN helping the downtrodden she had a hand in nearly massacring? (Admittedly, he turned out to be a psychotic murdering supervillain, working for a worse one, BUT STILL!)
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Apr 24, 2014 15:00
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VagueRant posted:Roy killed a cop. I know this show has always been heavy on the nepotism, but if they forgive Roy for that and blame the drug, why would it not be the same for Slade? And tried to choke Thea to death. This episode alone with previous ones has really banged the drum HARD on how hosed up Mirakuru can make a person, to the point that a very strong argument can be made that Slade is really, truly not fully responsible for his actions. I can see the final battle going back and forth between the island and present day - on the island, Ollie puts an arrow in Slade's eye and 'kills' him, in the present he decides to cure Slade and leave him with the knowledge of what he's done as his punishment.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:09
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I was actually kinda expecting Roy to die in the middle. I felt it was gonna be a similar conclusion to Vertigo. Also, Malcolm has to come back now. Slade's not gonna get a redemptive arc but I bet Malcolm might get a small one, while training Thea in art of arrow shooting  It's really the perfect opportunity for her to learn that stuff so she can get revenge.edit: I will miss Moira though, I thought she was one of the better actors when it came to the emotional scenes.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:16
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Aphrodite posted:Moira wasn't a villain. She knew of the plans with the earthquake machine and what its target was, even though she regretted it at the end, it still killed hundreds of poor people. 5 seconds after she decides to run for mayor, because she doesn't like it when people pick on rich people. She might not be a villain, but she also showed very little remorse for her actions.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:25
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VagueRant posted:Roy killed a cop. I know this show has always been heavy on the nepotism, but if they forgive Roy for that and blame the drug, why would it not be the same for Slade? 1. Hiring the mercenaries/the shipwreck/walter is all stuff she was basically forced to do by Malcolm - there is no indication she would have done that sort of thing if she hadn't already been led down the slippery slope. I'm not suggesting she hasn't done bad things, but she isn't a villain, any more than some kid in the real world who gets mixed up in/peer pressured into a gang and ends up being forced to do bad things because they are too scared to try and escape is a villain. 2. Shooting the Arrow was self defence against someone who at the time, she believed to be a murderous criminal - remember she didn't figure out Oliver was the Arrow till the night of the Undertaking itself (the season 1 finale). Remember that Oliver IS technically a criminal (and I might add we don't go round calling him a villain despite all the people he murdered in season 1, which strengthens my point as far as Moire goes). As far as I know, depending on where exactly in the US Starling city is, Moire's actions in shooting Oliver may have been entirely legal. 3. Her mayoral ambition is just typical right wing nonsense, and has nothing to do with being good or evil. As I recall she was also pressured into running in the first place - it wasn't her idea. For all we know Slade could be behind that. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 15:31
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1. I enjoyed this episode 2. Did anyone else bust a gut during Sarah's "I gave my soul to the devil" speech?
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Apr 24, 2014 15:34
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I kinda get the feeling Island Slade is going to survive to the next season. Either that, or they're going to squeeze Amanda Waller into the next three episodes' flashbacks, since she still has to meet Slade in order to pull that look she had at the end of the Suicide Squad episode.
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Apr 24, 2014 15:39
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hi liter posted:2. Did anyone else bust a gut during Sarah's "I gave my soul to the devil" speech? Not really, since I liked the sly reference to Ra's.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:03
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It's crazy how much Stephen Amell's acting has improved since the beginning of the show. He's been killing it lately.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:05
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hi liter posted:2. Did anyone else bust a gut during Sarah's "I gave my soul to the devil" speech? No, but when I rewatched Moira's death scene, I almost fell out of my chair when Ollie basically told Slade "Dude, she like wasn't even in to you" in reference to Shado.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:07
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Also, I was super glad Ollie finally didn't buy into the perception that he killed Shado. "That's not what happened!" Thank god.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:11
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King Burgundy posted:Also, I was super glad Ollie finally didn't buy into the perception that he killed Shado. "That's not what happened!" Thank god. Yeah that line fixed a lot about how the whole thing with Shado's death and Slade's 'revenge' kick have been played out. The way they showed the original scene Oliver didn't choose one way or another (in fact it sort of looked like he was throwing himself forward to be shot), Ivo lied and Slade is also insane. All of that was clear except that Oliver had never asserted the truth before, and it works so much better now that he has.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:25
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And I think to some extent Oliver had convinced himself that that's what had happened (and maybe thought he had on some level consciously chosen Sara). Everything Slade's done since, though, has basically absolved him of any kind of guilt he may have had.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:29
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My wife happened to be napping on the couch next to me during the episode and at the climax she woke up and started talking to me in a half-sleep - not realizing what a life-altering moment that was. I have never shouted "Would you shut up!" to my wife of 8 years before. She was not happy with me but it was worth it. After she took a few minutes, she asked me what happened and I told her. She understood.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:39
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York_M_Chan posted:My wife happened to be napping on the couch next to me during the episode and at the climax she woke up and started talking to me in a half-sleep - not realizing what a life-altering moment that was. I have never shouted "Would you shut up!" to my wife of 8 years before. She was not happy with me but it was worth it. After she took a few minutes, she asked me what happened and I told her. She understood. Couldn't you just pause the episode for a sec? I mean really...
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Apr 24, 2014 16:45
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antisocial posted:Couldn't you just pause the episode for a sec? I mean really... You think I am made of money that I can just PAUSE television!? Some people in this world don't have cable.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:46
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Sober posted:Wasn't this episode originally supposed to be the Flash backdoor pilot? (episode 20 or so?). I'm curious if killing Moira was planned for the end of this season somewhere else but then they realized they had to sort of fill in the empty slot after they immediately took Flash to pilot after he showed up in Arrow. Deadpool posted:Yeah, it was originally. But that was nixed early enough into production that I'm sure they didn't even have scripts of most of the last half of the season yet. Episode 19 was supposed to be the Flash backdoor pilot, not this one. You know, the one with the characters from Flash showing up to introduce themselves?
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Apr 24, 2014 16:51
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Oracle posted:Jesus, that last scene was really well acted. It could have been terrible but Susanna Thompson and Willa Holland sold the hell out of that. When Moira told Thea not to look my gut twisted. For a second I thought Slade was going to walk away and him using the katana instead of the gun felt off, since he was going for the whole mirror of what he thinks happened on the island. I actually never took trig in high school, and I actually had to take college algebra before I could take anything more advanced, but that's more because I'm lovely at math. American public schools. It's not inconceivable she'd be taking trig in college.
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Apr 24, 2014 17:15
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Ville Valo posted:Episode 19 was supposed to be the Flash backdoor pilot, not this one. You know, the one with the characters from Flash showing up to introduce themselves? No, it was episode 20. When Flash got a full pilot they changed their plans. That's not to say the Rage Monster Roy episode was meant to be the tie in, but the 20th episode was.
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Apr 24, 2014 17:18
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York_M_Chan posted:You think I am made of money that I can just PAUSE television!? Some people in this world don't have cable.
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Apr 24, 2014 17:22
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hi liter posted:1. I enjoyed this episode If I wasn't a comic book nerd I would have. But knowing that she's being pretty drat close to literal there helps that line.
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Apr 24, 2014 17:23
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Well this is a cool shot from the preview, I dont even know if it's a big loving spoiler or just a cool extra thing Seems the identity is out there: 
bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Apr 24, 2014 |
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Apr 24, 2014 17:30
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 03:02 |
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So is ARGUS just DC's version of SHIELD?
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Apr 24, 2014 17:47
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