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Isn't "Negrophobia" an unreleased Public Enemy B-side collection? Either way that is a term that needs more use.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:22
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Bundy is not racist according to his Facebook
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Apr 25, 2014 16:26
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BUG JUG posted:He's saying essentially that by calling someone A racist, as opposed to racist, it is more likely you will compartmentalize the racism displayed by an individual as simply a reflection of that one person rather than the broader racist culture that exists. This sounds like one of those things where some tenured professor wrote a thing about how we can fix racism by not calling it out and sticking to the most broad, wishy washy, terms. Oh Bundy isn't racist he's part of a culture and oppressive system that encourages racism.... Like, yea you probably shouldn't go full Tumblr and scream "WELL JUST loving KILL YOURSELF" if a guy says 'Oriental' instead of Asian, but calling someone 'A racist' vs saying a thing they did is racist is functionally the same thing. Defensive racists will react poorly to it no matter what.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:26
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VitalSigns posted:I actually legit have this problem in real life whenever anyone here in America asks me about South Africa or especially about apartheid. There's no other English term for the Cape Coloureds (different from black people), it's the name of a distinct cultural group over there, it's how the group refers to themselves, and is not pejorative in any way...but if the person has never heard of them before, they get this look and I have to rush to explain "No no no no no it's not a term for black people and it's not old-fashioned and racist like 'Colored' is here I swear!" In fairness, it's a term that white South Africans came up with and it was part of the structure of apartheid. So yeah it's racist even if it's the term people use to refer to themselves. e: VVV dead calf. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 16:28
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Did the CNN guy really say that Bundy brought a dead cat on the show? Is there any footage of this? Also - just so you know - I'm sure that Rosa Parks and MLK would agree with this stance of bringing a dead cat on the show. Edit - Apparently it was a dead CALF Still really creepy and strange. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 16:30
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SedanChair posted:Oh, that sounds like a silly concept that must get bandied around a lot in academic circles until it's accepted as truth. As someone who studies race and race relations in an academic setting: it is informed by the sort of linguistic school of thought that can be both useful and terribly pedantic, and -- as mentioned above -- does nothing to address the real problems with racism that exist in society. tbp posted:
I think that is the usage he is pushing for, yes. But at the end of the day: ok, you're calling him racist (and thus identifying that the root problem of racism is a societal as opposed to individual issue) but...so what? The fact that the constructions we have built on top of racial identities so deeply informs our social system is something that everyone knows, or at least, everyone who is paying attention.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:31
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Is the correct usage to say that a person is racist, and they are a bigot? Does that satisfy the societal/individual distinction in the term "racist"?
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Apr 25, 2014 16:34
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Hate the racism not the racist, I always say.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:35
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SedanChair posted:In fairness, it's a term that white South Africans came up with and it was part of the structure of apartheid. So yeah it's racist even if it's the term people use to refer to themselves. I...guess, but isn't this analysis also applicable to "black"? It is a term white people came up with, it was part of the structure of apartheid as well.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:37
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The proposed language use also seems more in line with tried and true propaganda techniques like propping up and constantly reinforcing/reactivating the same concept. The War on Terror as opposed to terrorists. The looming menace of big-C Communism as opposed to communists. Do it right, and you enter into the voluminous pantheon of ideas which are reinforced merely by being discussed even when you're presenting disconfirming information.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:38
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VitalSigns posted:I...guess, but isn't this analysis also applicable to "black"? It is a term white people came up with, it was part of the structure of apartheid as well. Context, usage and intent matters, there's not such thing as an inherently racist word. I mean we all know what the NAACP stands for but in the context of its usage it isn't a racist term. A person using the term colored to denigrate or discriminate, or within that context, makes the term racist. I'm not saying specific words don't matter but the word "negro" coming out of the mouth of a white man wondering if black people were better off under slavery is very different from the word "negro" coming out of the mouth of a black man who grew up in the Jim Crow south and just internalized that term as his cultural vernacular. It's the whole "hurrr but they call themselves nigga all the time" argument. It isn't the letters arranged in a certain order that is racist, it's the context and intent.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:40
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zoux posted:Hate the racism not the racist, I always say. Why?
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Apr 25, 2014 16:41
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SedanChair posted:Why? Mainly because a lot of folks can be salvaged. I accept my racism for what it is, and try to work past it. If I'm still worthy of hatred for it than  , but I think people can change if they make the effort.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:49
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Uh it's a joke because homophobes always say "hate the sin love the sinner" like it absolves them of their bigotry.
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Apr 25, 2014 16:50
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Talmonis posted:Mainly because a lot of folks can be salvaged. I accept my racism for what it is, and try to work past it. If I'm still worthy of hatred for it than As someone who grew up in a non-racist household, it is tough for me to accept people that are racist and in fact not hate them.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:04
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Add former US Representative Joe Walsh to the list of people still defending Cliven Bundy and his position on
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Apr 25, 2014 17:05
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Thank God he's got that "former" in his title.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:06
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Tigntink posted:Did the CNN guy really say that Bundy brought a dead cat on the show? Is there any footage of this? 
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Apr 25, 2014 17:08
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tbp posted:As someone who grew up in a non-racist household, it is tough for me to accept people that are racist and in fact not hate them. My grandfather grew up in pre WWII Louisiana and my dad grew up in immediately post-Jim Crow Mississippi so I have pretty first hand experience about how otherwise good people can hold pretty abhorrent views on race.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:08
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tbp posted:As someone who grew up in a non-racist household, it is tough for me to accept people that are racist and in fact not hate them. And you're sure you hold no racist beliefs or preconceptions? I used to be sure of it myself, but had to be checked a few times on things I never knew I was doing wrong. Privilege is a hell of a thing.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:09
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tbp posted:As someone who grew up in a non-racist household, it is tough for me to accept people that are racist and in fact not hate them. Humans are racist fyi edit. All of them
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Apr 25, 2014 17:10
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1. How perfect is it that Bundy lives in Bunkerville, Nevada? Is that an actual town, or did they proclaim that name? 2. Can someone photoshop the open-mouthed dead calf's face on Bundy's face, and Bundy's face on the dead calf?
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Apr 25, 2014 17:11
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Clearly, he just has interesting taste in necklaces.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:11
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zoux posted:My grandfather grew up in pre WWII Louisiana and my dad grew up in immediately post-Jim Crow Mississippi so I have pretty first hand experience about how otherwise good people can hold pretty abhorrent views on race. Then they're not good until they change those views. "Is nice to me or certain others" does not equal "good."
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Apr 25, 2014 17:12
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down with slavery posted:Humans are racist fyi Not sure I agree with this.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:13
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SedanChair posted:Then they're not good until they change those views. "Is nice to me or certain others" does not equal "good." Yeah, I don't subscribe to that view of human morality. I believe we are all products of our environment and it is an extraordinary and praiseworthy act to rise above the circumstances our upbringing, and that it's not unusual for people to not do that.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:13
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zoux posted:Yeah, I don't subscribe to that view of human morality. Then you're not good either. Tolerating racism is racism.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:14
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SedanChair posted:Then you're not good either. Tolerating racism is racism. BRB hating my dad.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:15
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:"B-but Nicki Minaj said it's true! WHITE-SHAMING" Should have responded like this: http://youtu.be/DWynJkN5HbQ
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Apr 25, 2014 17:17
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I'm glad Bundy is making the right look as terrible as it is, but a part of me just wants events to fast forward to the point where the feds have seized his assets.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:18
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SedanChair posted:Then they're not good until they change those views. "Is nice to me or certain others" does not equal "good." I grew up in a fairly racist household (my grandfather had this proudly displayed, in southern CA and not the south) and as much as I try subconsciously I'll do some pretty racist poo poo when I don't actively keep it in check. Consciously I'm fine but I've been trying to shake my racist upbringing for the last 15 years and honestly its just way too ingrained for it to disappear completely.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:19
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Wolfsheim posted:I'm glad Bundy is making the right look as terrible as it is, but a part of me just wants events to fast forward to the point where the feds have seized his assets. I wonder what would happen if the BLM just went back and took his cows again.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:20
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zoux posted:BRB hating my dad. Don't dadshame, thanks. Wolfsheim posted:I'm glad Bundy is making the right look as terrible as it is, but a part of me just wants events to fast forward to the point where the feds have seized his assets. I've mentioned it before, but it bears repeating that Bundy's continued flailing seems in part motivated to keep the spotlight on his circumstances, for he's got to know that once the country moves on to the next media circus the hammer is going to come down on him something fierce. That is of course predicated on a degree of self-awareness which I may be overgenerous in assuming he possesses.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:21
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Wolfsheim posted:I'm glad Bundy is making the right look as terrible as it is, but a part of me just wants events to fast forward to the point where the feds have seized his assets. If the feds really wanted to send a nice, chilly signal to right-wing white separatists/racists then they'd drop the hammer now, or after he puts out a few more old racist grandpa soundbites. Zeno-25 fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Apr 25, 2014 |
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Apr 25, 2014 17:22
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Zeno-25 posted:If the feds really wanted to send a nice, chilly signal to right-wing white separatists/racists then they'd drop the hammer now, or after he puts out a few more old racist grandpa soundbites. The problem is, if you do it right now, it looks like you're punishing him for being an idiot racist. So people would get pissy about that. Wait until he has to stop doing interviews to breathe, then cart him away.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:23
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mdemone posted:The problem is, if you do it right now, it looks like you're punishing him for being an idiot racist. So people would get pissy about that. Yeah, the convoluted histrionics from the right-wing media machine would be priceless.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:26
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Maybe he knows he's going to jail and he's trying to achieve hero status among the Aryan Brotherhood by the time he gets there?
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Apr 25, 2014 17:27
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Don't dadshame, thanks. The NYT quote that kicked this off starts with him gloating about how the Feds are gone and won't come back. Then he goes to wondering why it was only white people there, calling for "the Spanish" to join his cause, then his bit praising slavery. He does think he had won and this is all over, and was making the case to expand it.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:31
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I don't care what his motivations are. I really wish more people had jumped on to endorse his "cause" so that they had to backpedal later, but what can you do? I just hope he keeps talking.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:41
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Fried Chicken posted:The NYT quote that kicked this off starts with him gloating about how the Feds are gone and won't come back. Then he goes to wondering why it was only white people there, calling for "the Spanish" to join his cause, then his bit praising slavery. He does think he had won and this is all over, and was making the case to expand it. That he was so boldly proclaiming total victory struck me as a bit of empty-can rattling, but again I may well be overestimating his capacity for realistic assessment. I should probably stop doing that.
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Apr 25, 2014 17:43
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