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e.pilot
Nov 20, 2011

sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit
Had the best landing of my meager 87 hours of flying on Thursday and my friend got it on video.

Literally didn't feel it touch the ground.
http://youtu.be/D8LtZx788Xc




bonus video:
put her down on the numbers in Leadville too, one if the most beautiful airports in the country, and highest in North America.
http://youtu.be/W7ZAAihL7OU


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brendanwor
Sep 7, 2005

azflyboy posted:

Learning plateaus suck, especially when trying to finish IOE.

I can get through a flight just fine as pilot monitoring, and 99% of a flight just fine as pilot flying, but for some reason my approaches always seem to go to hell at about 300ft (I end up chasing the glideslope and flight director), resulting in a long landing.

I think a lot of the issue stems from the fact that the control harmony on the Q400 is terrible (the elevator requires a lot of force to move, but has no feedback, the ailerons aren't bad, and the power levers are incredibly sensitive on approach), so I just haven't quite figured out how much force is needed to make the small, rapid corrections needed on short final without under controlling the pitch. The fact that approaches into Seattle (the only place I've had issues) require a pretty drastic speed change on final (crossing the FAF at 170kt, then slowing to ~110kt while adding gear and flaps before 1000ft AGL) probably isn't helping, but hopefully the next training trip will be my last.

The last couple of check airmen I've flown with have assured me that I'm making normal progress, so I'm really hoping I can get this figured out within the next couple of legs I fly.

It sounds like you're overcontrolling a bit after A/P disconnection? Remember that an aircraft of this size should be inherently stable. If you're already on slope, and I assume you should be with a coupled approach, then you shouldn't need much control input at all after you disconnect. Try a lighter touch if possible. I also find that once visual, it's a lot easier to fly the remainder of the approach just like you would in a light aircraft - aimpoint/power/airspeed - rather than attempting to keep it exactly aligned with the flight director at low altitude. That approach into Seattle sounds hosed though.

Omi no Kami posted:

So this may be a silly question then, but how do you keep from getting bored during cruise? I assume that unless there's a problem a lot of the stuff you're monitoring will stay within a fairly narrow range, and getting bored/sleepy/coma-ridden is exactly the kind of thing that would cause you to potentially miss critical things in the first place.

Yeah, like others have said... monitor radios, monitor aircraft performance, monitor gauges, monitor autopilot and navigation, prepare for approach, chat with the captain and/or flight attendants, drink coffee, eat snacks, play with tablet/phone, stare out the window thinking about how you're gonna arrive home an hour late since your flight was delayed for whatever reason.

brendanwor fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Apr 20, 2014

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

brendanwor posted:

It sounds like you're overcontrolling a bit after A/P disconnection? Remember that an aircraft of this size should be inherently stable. If you're already on slope, and I assume you should be with a coupled approach, then you shouldn't need much control input at all after you disconnect. Try a lighter touch if possible. I also find that once visual, it's a lot easier to fly the remainder of the approach just like you would in a light aircraft - aimpoint/power/airspeed - rather than attempting to keep it exactly aligned with the flight director at low altitude. That approach into Seattle sounds hosed though.

It's not exactly overcontrolling, it's more like I'm not putting in enough pitch input to keep the FD from wandering. I started out doing that most of the way down the approach, so I'm guessing another few legs and I should have it figured out. The pitch forces on the airplane are heavy enough that a light touch on the yoke doesn't work (even when it's perfectly trimmed), so I'm basically trying to figure out how to precisely brute force the controls.

Getting speed restrictions like that is fairly common in Seattle, since ATC knows that we can keep pace with jet traffic through most arrival procedures and get rid of that speed pretty quickly when needed, so the controllers there use that ability to compensate for the fact that we're 20-30kts slower than the jets inside the FAF.

sleepy gary
Jan 11, 2006

There was a really bad skydiving accident today in Finland. The dive plane crashed and 8 people out of 11 on board are dead. So far I haven't been able to find any details (I was told by a pilot I know in Finland.)

edit: If you can read Finnish: http://www.mtv.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/artikkeli/vain-mtv-lla--kuvasarja-jamijarven-turmakoneen-syoksysta/3173422

sleepy gary fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 20, 2014

TheOtherGypsy
Apr 6, 2004

azflyboy posted:

It's not exactly overcontrolling, it's more like I'm not putting in enough pitch input to keep the FD from wandering. I started out doing that most of the way down the approach, so I'm guessing another few legs and I should have it figured out. The pitch forces on the airplane are heavy enough that a light touch on the yoke doesn't work (even when it's perfectly trimmed), so I'm basically trying to figure out how to precisely brute force the controls.

As you get closer to the ground, the flight director and glide slope are super sensitive. You're going to get yourself unstable if you try to follow those all the way down. Your crosscheck should be aim point - airspeed at that point.

Shavnir
Apr 5, 2005

A MAN'S DREAM CAN NEVER DIE
So I flew (with my instructor) into kdal yesterday. I thought it was a neat change of pace to be following a 737 instead of another Cessna.

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad! :emo:
Oh god CPL written in 4 hours. LO charts mean less options right?

Stupid Post Maker
Jan 8, 2008
American Eagle pilots seem to finally be comfortable with the new call sign. My school's airport only has Eagle Envoy as the sole air carrier hair and it's been pretty amusing to hear them stumble over themselves on the radios. Eagle fl- hm that's not right Envoy ####.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Finished IOE today!

Despite having fun with windshear on a few legs and getting to dodge around some spring thunderstorms, I managed to put together a pretty solid leg that was good enough to pass a line check and get me signed off to fly with normal captains. By a bizarre coincidence, the flight attendants got a line check on the trip as well, but since that leg involved lots of dodging storms and they never got out of their seats, it was pretty easy for them.

Now, I get to spend at least the next five weeks sitting on reserve (on call) starting at 430AM, which will be lots of fun.

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:

azflyboy posted:

Now, I get to spend at least the next five weeks sitting on reserve (on call) starting at 430AM, which will be lots of fun.

5 weeks? You lucky bastard. I'm on week 162 of reserve. Maybe I should just make a lateral move to horizon and move into my parents basement...

Are you commuting out of PHX or are you moving to base?

Animal
Apr 8, 2003

Congrats azn!!! Lets hope your reserve stint is a short one.

Kodiak, three years of reserve? Thats brutal. I'm finally a line holder after a year and nine months. Though with our particular flavor of PBS, there are many peculiarities that can push me right back to reserve any month for the dumbest reasons.

Something funny I have noticed. The stronger the crosswind and the turbulance on final approach, the softest my landing will result. I guess I get into "The Zone" and the end result is better than a boring straight in with calm winds.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Five weeks is just the length of the bid cycle, but I'm sure I'll be on reserve for quite a few bids after that. I'm in a base that's in the middle of the seniority list for FO's, but given the rate we're losing FO's right now, I may be able to hold a line within a year or so.

Two of our bases (PDX and SEA) are really senior, to the point where 15-year captains can't even hold a line and are dead last on the seniority list.

I moved to base shortly before I finished IOE, since the schedules aren't terribly commutable, and I didn't want to deal with the hassle of commuting anyway.

azflyboy fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Apr 23, 2014

Animal
Apr 8, 2003

I did the same thing and its the best decision I made. All the naive guys who tried the commute to reserve on first year pay turned into miserable wretches.

SCOTLAND
Feb 26, 2004
Hearing from friends, commuting on reserve is the worst thing in the world. Why anyone would do it on a probationary period is nuts.

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:

Animal posted:

I did the same thing and its the best decision I made. All the naive guys who tried the commute to reserve on first year pay turned into miserable wretches.

I did the same thing and it WAS the best decision I made until I made a horrible one and moved back. I knew that commuting to reserve was going to be a pain in the rear end so I moved to base (ord). After a year or so I got off probation and started holding a line so I decided to move back to AZ. Right after I moved back the poo poo hit the fan and my relative seniority tanked. I've now spent 2+ years commuting to reserve and my relative seniority is still lower than it was the day I moved back.

I am now a miserable wretch.

xaarman
Mar 12, 2003

IRONKNUCKLE PERMABANNED! READ HERE

Omi no Kami posted:

So this may be a silly question then, but how do you keep from getting bored during cruise? I assume that unless there's a problem a lot of the stuff you're monitoring will stay within a fairly narrow range, and getting bored/sleepy/coma-ridden is exactly the kind of thing that would cause you to potentially miss critical things in the first place.


"Find me the only 2 lower case letters in the cockpit"

"Find the 3 palindromes in the cockpit"

"Try and figure out which circuit breaker I just pulled"

etc

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


I was wondering if anyone knew the flight that crashed due to the pilot not adjusting his seat properly, and thus not lining up the balls. It was an episode of Seconds From Disaster or Air Crash Investigation several years ago. I've looked through the episode lists for both on Wikipedia, but nothing jumped out at me, and Google just gets me an Indian copilot pushing the column forwards, locking the pilot out, and going into a dive that he had no idea how to recover from unil the pilot got back in several thousand feet later - but that's from 2013 and the one I'm thinking of is (I believe) from the '70s

Dalrain
Nov 13, 2008

Experience joy,
Experience waffle,
Today.
Does anyone care to recommend a flight school in the South Bay area in California? There seem to be quite a few options, but none of them stand out to me yet.

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad! :emo:
So, on Sunday, I do my first solo long cross country from CYOW to CYGK, then onto CNL3 then back to CYOW. Should only take 2 hours. So, other thn stuff in the OP, is there anything else I should be doing (Like picking random fields for forceds if need be), or is my solo acapella renditions of various popular music songs enough to keep me sane?

vessbot
Jun 17, 2005
I don't like you because you're dangerous

Dalrain posted:

Does anyone care to recommend a flight school in the South Bay area in California? There seem to be quite a few options, but none of them stand out to me yet.

Aerodynamic Aviation at Reid Hillview, where you can learn in a taildragger and do it the right way the first time

Dalrain
Nov 13, 2008

Experience joy,
Experience waffle,
Today.
Cool, thanks for the reply. I saw they had a deal with the local EAA chapter at some point in history, but it looks to no longer be valid. Curses!

Rickety Cricket
Jan 6, 2011

I must be at the nexus of the universe!
azflyboy they finally cut you loose and you go and do something like this???
(picture stolen from reddit)

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Oddly enough, I'm actually assigned to a trip because of that incident.


The crew that hit the bird ended up declaring emergencies on two consecutive legs (something happened the leg after the bird strike), so the FO decided he'd had enough fun and was given a day at home, so I got assigned as a replacement for two legs with the captain, who decided he was okay to continue the trip.

Stupid Post Maker
Jan 8, 2008

bunnyofdoom posted:

So, on Sunday, I do my first solo long cross country from CYOW to CYGK, then onto CNL3 then back to CYOW. Should only take 2 hours. So, other thn stuff in the OP, is there anything else I should be doing (Like picking random fields for forceds if need be), or is my solo acapella renditions of various popular music songs enough to keep me sane?

Always be wondering what you should be doing

The Slaughter
Jan 28, 2002

cat scratch fever
Haha, that was probably a good call on his part.
Sometimes, it's just not your day, or your week- and you need to know when to call it quits.

fordan
Mar 9, 2009

Clue: Zero

bunnyofdoom posted:

So, on Sunday, I do my first solo long cross country from CYOW to CYGK, then onto CNL3 then back to CYOW. Should only take 2 hours. So, other thn stuff in the OP, is there anything else I should be doing (Like picking random fields for forceds if need be), or is my solo acapella renditions of various popular music songs enough to keep me sane?

Figuring out where you'd land if there's a problem, scan for traffic, scan engine/fuel gauges, do some pilotage comparing landmarks to charts. Assuming you did a nav log and your CFI isn't letting you be a GPS pilot, calculating and recording leg times and etas and the like.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

The Slaughter posted:

Haha, that was probably a good call on his part.
Sometimes, it's just not your day, or your week- and you need to know when to call it quits.

Yep. The trip started with two tires needing replacement, and when I joined it,the tug couldn't release the airplane after we pushed back, so someone had to borrow a knife from an airport ops truck to cut the tow strap and get us loose. I'm off the trip after one leg tomorrow, so hopefully that flight manages to go without a problem.

xaarman
Mar 12, 2003

IRONKNUCKLE PERMABANNED! READ HERE

azflyboy posted:

so the FO decided he'd had enough fun and was given a day at home,

The Slaughter posted:

Sometimes, it's just not your day, or your week- and you need to know when to call it quits.


This is an option? Like F it, I don't want to work anymore on this trip?

Animal
Apr 8, 2003

Under such circumstances, if your chief pilot is not a dick.

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
Controllers involved in jarring situations could be expected to be pulled from the shift rotation as well. There's no sense leaving a frazzled and nervous person in control of lives. Depends on the situation, and the individual's response of course.

It's not combat, your coworkers don't die if you take a little leave.

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:

xaarman posted:

This is an option? Like F it, I don't want to work anymore on this trip?

You could just call fatigued because that's pretty much what you are. Generally speaking if your CPO or scheduling gives you any grief about calling in fatigued and the FAA finds out about it they're going to get bitch slapped pretty hard.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal

Rickety Cricket posted:

azflyboy they finally cut you loose and you go and do something like this???
(picture stolen from reddit)

I didn't realize they're ditching the Horizon Air name. I searched for "Horizon bird strike" and couldn't find any news. I guess that means Alaska can no longer say they operate an all Boeing fleet? :v:

bunnyofdoom
Mar 29, 2008

I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad! :emo:
So, in good news, I got some great Xwind landing practice today. IN bad news it's cause the wind was a bit too high for me to do my solo crosscountry. It's now on Tuesday. It's literally the last step before I jump into flight test prep.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

CharlesM posted:

I didn't realize they're ditching the Horizon Air name. I searched for "Horizon bird strike" and couldn't find any news. I guess that means Alaska can no longer say they operate an all Boeing fleet? :v:

We're still Horizon Air (according to the callsign, uniforms, tax forms, etc...), but there was a big shift in the branding towards the Alaska name to look better to customers.

One unintentional (and hilarious) side effect of the branding change was that if the ice shield on the left side of the fuselage is removed or unpainted, the airplane then reads "Alaska Ho" on the side.

The Slaughter
Jan 28, 2002

cat scratch fever
That was intentional, azflyboy, so you never forget ;)

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck
Oopsie:





News Link

Citation runway overrun at Spruce Creek, FL.

And since it'll most certainly get posted, here's a different one trying to get out of the drink on its own:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px8awNCvQFM

EDIT: If you're wondering why the above video is 10 minutes long, trust me, it's worth watching to the end (at least through the middle.)

The NTSB Factual summary on the older incident in the video:

quote:

NTSB Says:

The pilot performed "a low pass" over the runway, and then touched down approximately 1,000 feet beyond the approach end of the 2,948-foot long runway, with a tailwind of approximately 10 knots. After touchdown, the airplane continued off the end of the runway, and subsequently impacted water. According to the Cessna 525A Landing Distance Chart, an airplane with a landing weight of 11,400 pounds required 3,000 feet of landing distance, in a no wind situation. With a 10 knot tailwind, the airplane required 3,570 feet of landing distance. The published airport diagram for the airport, was observed attached to the pilot's control column after the accident. A notation, which read, "airport closed to jet aircraft" was observed on the diagram. Additionally, the same notation, "Arpt CLOSED to jet traffic," was observed in the FAA Airport/Facility Directory. Examination of the airplane revealed no mechanical deficiencies.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The pilot's improper decision to plan a flight to a runway of insufficient length, his improper in-flight decision to land on that inadequate runway with a tailwind, and his failure to obtain the proper touchdown point. A factor in the accident was the tailwind condition.

The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Apr 29, 2014

Tommy 2.0
Apr 26, 2008

My fabulous CoX shall live forever!

The Ferret King posted:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px8awNCvQFM

EDIT: If you're wondering why the above video is 10 minutes long, trust me, it's worth watching to the end (at least through the middle.)

Guys, watch this video. I'll spoil it a little...you find out what happens when a jet, that is in a body of water, turns on it's engines.

I saw this video years ago and it makes me smile every time I think of it.

Kia Soul Enthusias
May 9, 2004

zoom-zoom
Toilet Rascal
What causes the engines to spin back up like that?

The video taker called it within the first five seconds though eh? "Got a nutball".

The Ferret King
Nov 23, 2003

cluck cluck

CharlesM posted:

What causes the engines to spin back up like that?

The video taker called it within the first five seconds though eh? "Got a nutball".

The throttles on that plane double as the fuel shutoff switch also. When they're pulled back to idle, there's a physical detent that requires pulling the throttles "up and over" to move them farther back to the fuel cutoff zone. This is how they shut the engines down normally.

When the NTSB inspected the aircraft after the accident, they found that the #1 (left) engine's throttle was in the cutoff position. But the #2 engine's throttle was only backed up to the idle detent, and the lever/handle had been bent. They didn't elaborate but I'm guessing the pilot was panicking and didn't properly manipulate that throttle lever over the detent, instead trying to force it and just ended up bending it.

Anyway, the impact surely disrupted both engines in some way, I'm guessing they quit running on their own. But the #1 engine was cut off from getting more fuel so it stayed down. The #2 engine still had available fuel flow and it either had enough residual spin to self start, or water shorted out the starter and caused it to run. I'm just guessing here, cause the NTSB doesn't really talk about the post crash engine start, just the accident itself.

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SCOTLAND
Feb 26, 2004
787 type rated, possibly the youngest in North America :toot:

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