April Auspol: Better Nate than Lever!!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > April Auspol: Better Nate than Lever!!

ShoeFly: Dec 28, 2006; Waiter, there's a fly in my shoe!

I'm looking forward to seeing how Hockey & Tones spin their upcoming tax hike as not an actual tax increase.

Most people are referring to it as a levy, I prefer "temporary refund adjustment".

# ? Apr 28, 2014 03:48

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 03:40

Nibbles!: Jun 26, 2008; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please

Bifauxnen posted:

The gently caress is a "human right to property"? Maybe I should steal that wording when I'm arguing about basic income.

Human right to property *human right purchased from VTAC after local council refused approval*

# ? Apr 28, 2014 03:52

Concatenation: Jul 23, 2005; Your human mentality cries out for vengeance and thrives on the violence you say you can hardly endure.

Gorilla Salad posted:

Also, I would like to thank Woolworth's for putting swastikas on their new homebrand rice. Good for a laugh.

I'm pretty sure this is the sayagata which is (among other things) a japanese buddhist pattern

# ? Apr 28, 2014 03:57

BogDew: Jun 14, 2006; E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

Captain Pissweak posted:

Legalise euthanasia.

Does suicide count?

# ? Apr 28, 2014 03:58

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Concatenation posted:

I'm pretty sure this is the sayagata which is (among other things) a japanese buddhist pattern

Basmati rice, which is Indian, so a swastika pattern is in fact justified, if confusing to the average Australian.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 04:09

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

Shadeoses posted:

Basmati rice, which is Indian, so a swastika pattern is in fact justified, if confusing to the average Australian.

BUT NAZIS!!!!

I can't wait for the sensationalist complaints and news articles that will follow. Australian media is so predictable.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 04:22

Vladimir Poutine: Aug 13, 2012

I think even most Australians would realise it's just a symbol of prosperity.

Swastikas were everywhere in Nepal last time I was there. Like during the November election, people voted by using a stamp with a swastika on it to mark the party they voted for. Also, all the Maoist election posters in Kathmandu had a swastika superimposed on a hammer and sickle, which kind of amused me because it reminded me of that "Commie-Nazis" thing from The Simpsons.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 04:25

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

My Indian friend has a swastika on his doormat with a short Hindu blessing or something written around it.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 04:41

webmeister: Jan 31, 2007; The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

Wasn't the Nazi swastika inverted from the Hindu one anyway?

# ? Apr 28, 2014 05:14

thatbastardken: Apr 23, 2010; A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

Can't even properly appropriate a good luck symbol Mr. ~~Speaker~~ Chancellor.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 05:19

BogDew: Jun 14, 2006; E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

webmeister posted:

Wasn't the Nazi swastika inverted from the Hindu one anyway?

Yes, it's set at a 45 degree angle and was adapted from some warped idea that the Aryan race was from India.

Before that it was seen as a symbol of good luck and prosperity and is still used as such in Asia where it gets easily confused on imported goods - for instance when it appeared on a Pokemon card.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 05:31

ShoeFly: Dec 28, 2006; Waiter, there's a fly in my shoe!

News just in: NSW politicians are all corrupt.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/liberal-mp-marie-ficarra-asked-to-step-aside-over-corruption-inquiry-20140428-zr0np.html

# ? Apr 28, 2014 05:36

MysticalMachineGun: Apr 5, 2005

ShoeFly posted:

News just in: NSW politicians are all corrupt.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/liberal-mp-marie-ficarra-asked-to-step-aside-over-corruption-inquiry-20140428-zr0np.html

THERE WAS ACTUALLY A LIBERAL SLUSH FUND ALL ALONG! :siren:

# ? Apr 28, 2014 05:58

thatbastardken: Apr 23, 2010; A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

imagine my surprise.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:04

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

But I thought I could trust the LiberAHHAHAHAHah

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:15

Drugs: Jul 16, 2010; I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein

https://twitter.com/TonyAbbottMHR/status/362469775730946048

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:16

adamantium|wang: Sep 14, 2003; Missing you

MysticalMachineGun posted:

THERE WAS ACTUALLY A LIBERAL SLUSH FUND ALL ALONG!

That's it, my irony gland has finally burst

sned hlep

e:

quote:

Chief Liberal fund-raiser Paul Nicolaou has agreed in private evidence that the foundation was used to hide money from prohibited donors.

It is also alleged that Mr Nicolaou, on the letterhead of the Liberal Party's fund-raising arm the Millennium Forum, urged 2GB broadcaster Alan Jones to use his radio program to destroy Dr Schott's career.

adamantium|wang fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Apr 28, 2014

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:27

Negative Entropy: Nov 30, 2009

Haters Objector posted:

https://twitter.com/TonyAbbottMHR/status/362469775730946048

The ICAC is ripping up the NSW LNP and uprooting deep seated corruption and Dial Tone's media manager is just pointing at the Labor party, "Was them. Not us"

Its like a 5 year olds lie.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:40

Wheezle: Aug 13, 2007; 420 stop boats erryday

Kommando posted:

The ICAC is ripping up the NSW LNP and uprooting deep seated corruption and Dial Tone's media manager is just pointing at the Labor party, "Was them. Not us"

Its like a 5 year olds lie.

That tweet is from almost a year ago. :ssh:

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:44

Quantum Mechanic: Apr 25, 2010; Just another fuckwit who thrives on fake moral outrage.
Waaaah the Christians are out to get me

lol abbottsgonnawin

I don't know if anyone else was watching the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, but they were dealing with the concept of Senate reform. They had submissions from the Nationals, Labor, Liberals, Greens, and finally some input from our favourite fuckknuckle-elect David Leyonhjelm.

The man is a clown. I mean, he's refreshingly honest, but he seems to have literally no filter whatsoever. He didn't even try to deny being involved in preference harvesting or trying to drum up votes based on nothing but slogans. He referred to the Greens as preference harvesters for Labor. He admitted if he had the time he'd set up 20 preference-harvesting microparties to direct votes to the LDP. He admitted he's been administrator/party officer for multiple parties simultaneously and that they share membership, and refused to give an idea of how many people are financial members. He called Glenn Druery a "bastard" and "a black hole of principles" after admitting they allowed Druery to run for them as a candidate. He then finally admitted that the LDP directed their preferences in the NSW group voting ticket out of spite, and not out of any actual ideological overlap or shared values, essentially confirming that the GVT system is a loving shambles.

I mean, we all knew it was the case, but it's hilarious to hear him admit it without a trace of shame.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:49

Negative Entropy: Nov 30, 2009

Wheezle posted:

That tweet is from almost a year ago.

drat.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:49

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

Kommando posted:

drat.

But aren't they still acting like "Was them. Not us"?

# ? Apr 28, 2014 06:55

Jonah Galtberg: Feb 11, 2009

I don't know about everyone else but fuckknuckle is one of my favourite words.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 07:20

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Which of you is Ben Pobjie? At the end of an article lamenting that the Logies have to choose between critical awards or popularity was this sentence.

quote:

Then again, Housos won Most Outstanding Light Entertainment Program and Mad as Hell wasn't even nominated, so maybe we should just burn everything down and start again.

Hambeet I'm looking in your direction.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 07:57

Pred1ct: Feb 20, 2004; Burninating

Tokamak posted:

Doublespeak

Everyone should read the book Death Sentence by Don Watson (who at one time was a speech writer for Keating and either wrote the Redfern Park Speech in entirety or collaborated with Keating depending on who you believe) - You'll see the grim spectacle of Newspeak and empty jargon everywhere, in politics, advertising, the corporate world...

With the prevalence of it now it's a job in itself not to lapse into platitudinal garbage by accident. And people wonder why we need to teach 'classics' or literature in schools, if it's only use is to stem the tide of such hot air then it's worth it.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 08:06

CROWS EVERYWHERE: Dec 17, 2012; CAW CAW CAW; Dinosaur Gum

Pred1ct posted:

Everyone should read the book Death Sentence by Don Watson (who at one time was a speech writer for Keating and either wrote the Redfern Park Speech in entirety or collaborated with Keating depending on who you believe) - You'll see the grim spectacle of Newspeak and empty jargon everywhere, in politics, advertising, the corporate world...

With the prevalence of it now it's a job in itself not to lapse into platitudinal garbage by accident. And people wonder why we need to teach 'classics' or literature in schools, if it's only use is to stem the tide of such hot air then it's worth it.

It really is everywhere. One of the main thing I can do with my :swoon:

Creative and Professional Writing :swoon:

degree is translating bank and political garbage, etc, into "Plain English", because it's just so hard for bankers and politicians to write or speak in a way that normal people understand - or, more frequently, because they don't want people to understand what they're actually saying. At its best it is simple ineptness, at worst it's a deliberate attempt at obfuscation. It's become the default language of so many sectors and it's horrifying that more people aren't up in arms about this.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 08:18

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Union got back to me, From investigation, Umart has been playing hot potato with Superfunds with my Super starting at Spectrum Super then being transferred to a variety of different Super providers before landing at Australian Super. All this was happening without my permission. Does anyone know why a business would just open up a trail of accounts in my name and never tell me anything?

# ? Apr 28, 2014 08:26

Jonah Galtberg: Feb 11, 2009

The plot thickens (with drying blood)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/scott-morrison-visit-sent-manus-tension-soaring-says-g4s-whistleblower

Scott Morrison visit sent Manus tension soaring, says G4S whistleblower posted:

Scott Morrison directly contributed to tension in the Manus Island detention centre during a late September visit, according to an explosive set of allegations made by former G4S guard Martin Appleby, who is the first guard to speak publicly since the unrest on Manus in February that left one asylum seeker dead.

In an exclusive interview with Guardian Australia, Appleby, who worked as a safety and security officer and a training officer on Manus between July and late December 2013, alleges:

The immigration minister addressed a compound in late September, resulting in a state of �high alert� being called for riot, fire and self-harm. Appleby made these observations in a video diary that was recorded just days after Morrison�s address. The minister, according to Appleby, told asylum seekers: �You will never see the shores of Australia.� The decision to address asylum seekers in this manner, �put people�s security at risk, including his own�, and was a turning point in tensions within the camp, according to Appleby.

Papua New Guinean nationals in the incident response teams (IRTs) were given �probably three days� of training. Appleby describes this as not at all adequate. Local IRTs are alleged to have been involved in the violence that erupted on the evening of 17 February, when Reza Barati was killed. A G4S incident report extract of that night seen independently by Guardian Australia observes a manager �lost control� of her IRT that evening. Appleby, who has a decade�s experience in corrections, says the training of the local IRTs should have been a �minimum six intensive weeks�.

As the numbers in the centre began to swell after the introduction of the �PNG solution�, G4S �couldn�t afford any more time to give to training and it was a sort of a snowball effect�, Appleby says. �It was a failure that was always going to fail,� he adds.

There was no proper procedure in place to count the number of asylum seekers in the centre. Appleby says he has "no doubt" detainees absconded from the camp.

Facilities in the detention centre were atrocious: �No one should be made to live under those conditions. No one.�

A spokeswoman for Morrison�s office said there was �no basis in fact� for the allegation that the minister�s September trip had exacerbated tension on Manus. �Claims that the minister was �evacuated� or had �increased tensions� are false. They have no basis in fact,� she said.

Morrison said in an Operation Sovereign Border press conference on 30 September that he had addressed asylum seekers on Manus: �I gave them a very clear message, and it was this; they will not be getting what they came for. They would remain there at that centre until they went home or were settled in a country other than Australia.�

Asked for a response to all of Appleby�s allegations, the spokeswoman responded: �The government inherited a facility on Manus Island that had been rushed by the previous government.� A full statement can be read here.

Guardian Australia has produced three films of Appleby�s allegations. They feature never-before-seen footage from inside the detention centre and use evidence obtained by a sustained investigation into the unrest.

None of the footage or documents were provided to Guardian Australia by Appleby.

He also alleges that there was no process to permanently separate vulnerable asylum seekers from the main population. Appleby says he was given the task of caring for one sexual assault victim for 24 hours; the detainee was �very scared� of what would happened to him when he returned to his compound.

Appleby was present during the evacuation of the centre on 18 October, after an altercation between the PNG navy and police outside the main gate. His is the first detailed account of that event. He says PNG forces turned on G4S staff who rushed out to stop the confrontation. Personnel were evacuated single file along a beach behind the centre, leaving asylum seekers alone in the compound. He says there were no evacuation procedures. �We didn�t know how many staff at that point were being evacuated,� he said. �Was it mismanagement? Was it lack of procedure? Was it all of the above? For people from professional backgrounds to act in such a way was just disgraceful.�

Since leaving Manus, Appleby has announced he will stand as an ALP candidate in the Victorian state elections. He says none of his allegations are politically motivated.

A spokesman for G4S did not respond to Appleby�s specific allegations. �G4S will not comment in detail on individual allegations with regard to the Manus Island incidents of 16 and 17 February, as we do not wish to pre-empt or compromise a number of Australian and PNG reviews that are currently under way,� he said.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 08:27

Seagull: Oct 9, 2012; give me a chip

"If we hadn't inherited this island hellhole from the previous government it wouldn't be an unending pit of suffering." - the official position of the minister for immigration and border protection Scott Morrison after making inflammatory comments to those he tortures.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 08:38

CROWS EVERYWHERE: Dec 17, 2012; CAW CAW CAW; Dinosaur Gum

And people doubt that we have literal sociopaths occupying top government positions.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 08:42

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:

And people doubt that we have literal sociopaths occupying top government positions.

Who?

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:02

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

(Only NewsCorp currently reporting so screw links)

quote:

BEN and Jerry's ice cream has been hauled over the coals by the Queensland Government for supporting WWF's �propaganda� save the Reef campaign.

Environment Minister Andrew Powell wants Australians to boycott the American company, saying it has damaged the reputation of the Reef and jeopardised jobs and tourism dollars.

�Another company has signed up to the campaign of lies and deceit that's been propagated by WWF,� Mr Powell said.

�The only people taking a scoop out of the reef is Ben and Jerry's and Unilever.

�If you understand the facts, you'd want to be boycotting Ben and Jerry's.�

The Minister said he would write to parent company Unilever to express concerns and brief it on the truth.

Earlier this month, Ben and Jerry's withdrew popular flavour Phish Food because of its allusion to fishfood, as a way of drawing attention to the potential damage to the Reef.

It also embarked on a road trip around parts of Australia, giving out free ice cream to highlight its concerns over damage to the Reef.

The brand said the Reef was at serious risk of destruction from intensive dredging and dumping, mega-ports and shipping highways.

It has championed environmental causes in its 35-year history, including opposing drilling in the Arctic, and says it's a proud supporter of WWF's campaign.

�Ben & Jerry's believes that dredging and dumping in world heritage waters surrounding the marine park area will be detrimental to the reef ecology,� Australia brand manager Kalli Swaik said.

�It threatens the health of one of Australia's most iconic treasures.�

The Queensland and Federal governments in January approved the dumping of three million cubic metres of dredge spoil in the marine park and World Heritage area to enable the Abbot Point coal port expansion.

The Government said 70 per cent of the spoil was expected to settle on the seabed.

WWF fears spoil could get caught in currents and smother or poison reefs just 40km away.

CEO Dermot O'Gorman says Ben and Jerry's involvement reflected the concern of people around the world about how the reef is being managed.

�Ben & Jerry's' tour is a timely reminder that the world expects the Queensland and Australian governments to lift their game,� he said.

UNESCO is due to meet in June to consider the Australian Government's progress in improving the management of the Reef. It's due to decide this year or next whether to list the Reef as a world heritage site in danger.

Holy poo poo, hahahahahaha.

Queensland's list of enemies so far: Clive Palmer, The Great Barrier Reef, Literally Ice Cream.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:11

Seagull: Oct 9, 2012; give me a chip

Big Ice Cream wants to destroy your economy Queensland.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:13

CROWS EVERYWHERE: Dec 17, 2012; CAW CAW CAW; Dinosaur Gum

Reminds me of a JW magazine from a few months back labelling (among others) WWF and Amnesty International as dangerous radical groups :allears:

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:16

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

Environment Minister of Australia declares war on the WWF and icecream.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:16

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Captain Pissweak posted:

Big Ice Cream wants to destroy your economy Queensland.

So one of those Egg Council creeps got to you too huh?

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:17

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Umm corporate boycotts impinge on free speech and are therefore bad.

Or have I got last month's talking points by mistake?

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:20

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Umm corporate boycotts impinge on free speech and are therefore bad.

Or have I got last month's talking points by mistake?

It's probably a stretch to conclude whether ministers in Queensland can actually read.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:24

Mattjpwns: Dec 14, 2006; In joyful strains then let us sing
ADVANCE AUSTRALIA FUCKED

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Umm corporate boycotts impinge on free speech and are therefore bad.

Or have I got last month's talking points by mistake?

Just Tories/Lolbertarians suffering a lack of cognitive dissonance... again.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:25

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# ? Jun 2, 2024 03:40

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

In some actual huge news both Liberal and Labor have joined forces (!) to support optional preferential voting on senate tickets to stop preference harvesting. Of course the Liberals are trying to include a rider in there to make this much worse.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/optional-preferential-voting-plan-by-labor-liberals-to-block-micro-parties

quote:

Optional preferential voting plan by Labor, Liberals to block micro-parties

Two major parties say overhaul of the voting system should be considered to prevent the manipulation of group voting tickets

Oliver Milman
theguardian.com, Monday 28 April 2014 13.35 AEST
Jump to comments (93)

The Labor and Liberal parties have both thrown their weight behind an optional preferential voting system for Senate elections in order to crack down on �opportunistic� micro-parties who get elected on a tiny number of primary votes.

In separate submissions to a parliamentary committee looking at issues posed by last year�s federal election, the two major parties said an overhaul of the voting system should be considered to prevent the manipulation of group voting tickets.

The Liberal party�s submission said it was �timely to move to optional preferential voting above the line and abolish group voting tickets for Senate elections�.

�This would retain a relatively simple, straightforward voting system, removing avenues for possible abuse, and allowing the voter to preference further candidates if they wish.�

Labor�s submission was less forthright in its support for optional preferential voting, which both parties previously opposed, but it said it should be considered as a �possible option to address the specific undemocratic issues that have emerged in the current Senate voting system�.

This optional system would allow voters, if they wished, to mark an order of Senate preferences above the line, rather than rely on the group voting tickets of their chosen party.

At present, voters can only mark one box above the line, after which the chosen party�s preferences take over.

The Nationals told the committee these preferences could be numbered from one to 15, although the party said it preferred a compulsory, rather than optional, system.

The inquiry was formed following the 2013 election, which saw a number of micro-party candidates elected to the Senate, including David Leyonhjelm of the Liberal Democrats in New South Wales and Ricky Muir, of the Motoring Enthusiasts Party, in Victoria.

The botched Senate election in Western Australia saw Wayne Dropulich of the Australian Sports Party elected with just 0.23% of the vote before an election rerun was held this month.

A record number of minor parties contested last year�s election, leading to huge ballot papers and accusations that complex preference deals meant that voters� intentions were not represented.

Both the Labor and Liberal parties told the committee that rules regarding the formation of parties and the fielding of candidates should be toughened, to prevent obscure micro- parties from opportunistically seizing Senate seats.

George Wright, Labor�s national secretary, said some micro-parties with primary votes of less than 1% were �abusing� group voting tickets, which allocate preference flows between candidates.

�The ALP doesn�t want to discourage genuine small parties from the democratic process,� he said, �but there should be a rigorous process to discourage opportunistic micro-parties motivated by the opportunity to harvest preferences.

�Voting has to be practical, and we support compulsory voting. But when casting a vote, a voter should do it in a way that�s understandable, in a way that expresses their will. Metre-long ballot papers make that very difficult.�

Wright said the fee for registering a party should be raised to $2,000, with parties required to have a minimum number of members in each state they wish to contest. He added that there should be rules requiring candidates to live in the state in which they are standing.

Brian Loughnane, the federal director of the Liberal party, echoed Wright�s call for change to party registration requirements, saying there should be a requirement that before preferences from any party are distributed, that party must have received a primary vote of at least 10% of the value of a Senate quota.

In other words, a party must get more than about 1.4% of the primary vote before its preferences are distributed to other parties.

Loughnane said the Liberals were also �deeply concerned� about the fact that more than 18,000 people voted multiple times in the last election, and he proposed that photographic ID should be required by those wishing to vote.

�Voting is an important communal exercise, it shouldn�t be made so complex that the average voter is completely baffled by it,� he said. �People are looking to form parties for preference harvesting, to distort the intention of someone�s vote. It�s a gross distortion, and a loophole in the current act, where your vote ends up going to someone on the other side of the fence.�

Loughnane said the Liberals were unhappy with the way the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) handled the WA Senate election, where 1,370 ballot papers were lost, and suggested it was time to review the organisation.

In his own submission, Clive Palmer said it was time to move to electronic voting.

�A modern electronic voting system would save the taxpayer millions of dollars,� the Queensland MP and businessman said.

�It would revolutionise AEC processes and would also almost completely eliminate informal votes and put an end to party scrutineers arguing with each other and AEC officials over the pencil-marked numbers of hundreds of thousands of ballot papers across Australia � delaying declaration of results in closely contested electorates.

�JFK challenged America to get to the moon � and they did.  I challenge Australia to get an electronic voting system in place for the next federal election.�

Oh and Clive Palmer showed up too.

# ? Apr 28, 2014 09:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > April Auspol: Better Nate than Lever!!

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