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Well I guess I should read Annihilation if everyone's all gung-ho about it. The prose is pretty uninspiring though if the first chapter is any indication.
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Apr 29, 2014 04:16
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Kraps posted:Is the theory that he doesn't write a lot of romance into his stuff because Mormonism legit in any way? I don't think so? I could be wrong but I think if the Mormonism directly influences anything in his writing, it's his general avoidance of real-world curse words.
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Apr 29, 2014 04:21
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I'm like the only one that enjoys Sanderson's dadhumor.
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Apr 29, 2014 05:19
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mdemone posted:Well I guess I should read Annihilation if everyone's all gung-ho about it. The prose is pretty uninspiring though if the first chapter is any indication. Some people were discussing earlier that they weren't impressed. Like I say, I liked it, but I also liked the prose so early signs indicate you may disagree with my opinion.
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Apr 29, 2014 05:34
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm like the only one that enjoys Sanderson's dadhumor. The only non-WoT thing by him I've read is Warbreaker but I liked the funny character in that.
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Apr 29, 2014 06:01
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Kraps posted:Is the theory that he doesn't write a lot of romance into his stuff because Mormonism legit in any way? He does write romance in his books (as in romantic love), what he doesn't write is detailed sex scenes and any real cussing outside of made up swear words. Which both might to be rooted in his Mormonism or it's that he prefers his books more in the style prevalent pre-GRRM/Abercrombie/Lynch. No idea if he ever said anything about it in an interview or panel.
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Apr 29, 2014 08:13
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Seldom Posts posted:Another one you might like is The Prince of Nothing by Bakker. I really don't think Bakker is what he is looking for, since world building was something he wasn't that interested in. That said, people interested by fantasy should read Bakker just to see what it is. It is admittedly a controversial series, but it is also pretty unique in its setting, both good and bad. Walh Hara posted:Weird. I believe the average reading spead is around 60 pages/hour (page being between 250 and 300 words). The first 5 books of ASOIAF together is as such about 71 hours of reading material if you don't take into account that these kinds of books tend to read a lot faster than normal. For it to take you 6 months, you probably read an average of about 23 minutes/day. Of course, that's fine and you can choose your own hobbies, but that's honestly very little. Compaire it to how much time you spend surfing the internet daily on average, or how much time you spend watching tv, etc... Only 60, thought it was higher. I think I have clocked myself at 120-150 pages per hour and with my 2hs commuting a day I go through a lot of books. Also, Crimson Campaign by McClellan arrived on my doorstep yesterday. Will be interesting to see if he can make a good sequel.
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Apr 29, 2014 08:43
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Re: Sex & Sanderson I always thought it was funny how in Mistborn the two heroes are in love and live together but don't even seem to consider having sex until they get married and then its like they realise they can and immediately do
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Apr 29, 2014 10:30
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Cardiac posted:Only 60, thought it was higher. I think I have clocked myself at 120-150 pages per hour and with my 2hs commuting a day I go through a lot of books. Well, the 60 pages/hour thing is just a guess based on articles that claim an average untrained adult reads around 250 words per minute and me assuming that's about one page (it normaly is). However, I just checked and apparently asoiaf only has about 180 words per page, probably because of the dialogue. Because of this and since you would obviously expect that people in this subforum read faster than average because we read more than average, most people here could probably read asoiaf at a rate of 100 pages/hour or more. Note: it should be obvious reading speed depends on the book.
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Apr 29, 2014 13:59
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Walh Hara posted:Well, the 60 pages/hour thing is just a guess based on articles that claim an average untrained adult reads around 250 words per minute and me assuming that's about one page (it normaly is). However, I just checked and apparently asoiaf only has about 180 words per page, probably because of the dialogue. Not if you have borderline ADD and reading a page or two takes 5-10 minutes because you have to keep re-reading the same sentences over and over then restarting paragraphs because your mind was racing with a million other thoughts that had nothing to do with the book, then realising you'd better start again at the top of the page, and so on...  Despite this I have dedication and I manage to get through 45-50 books a year so 
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Apr 29, 2014 14:14
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I am struggling to finish The Warded Man by Peter V Brett. I picked it up because it was supposed to be a gritty fantasy novel, and was highly recommended. Unfortunately I 100% can't stand Arlen as a character and think he's super arrogant and annoying. I do like the world quite a bit, and other main characters way way way more than him though. I still really want to read an epic fantasy book, but I haven't decided what to pick up. I've been eyeing The Blade Itself. It was recommended to me because I liked ASOIF series. Is it worth picking up? Is there any other books that I'm over looking?
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Apr 29, 2014 16:25
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I am struggling to finish The Warded Man by Peter V Brett. I picked it up because it was supposed to be a gritty fantasy novel, and was highly recommended. Unfortunately I 100% can't stand Arlen as a character and think he's super arrogant and annoying. I do like the world quite a bit, and other main characters way way way more than him though. The best "gritty" epic fantasy series, as far as I'm aware, is still the first three novels of the Black Company series (the later books it gets debatable). Past that there are so many choices that I'll need more detail as to what you want. How much grimdark? How epic do you want things? If you want thousands upon thousands of pages and don't mind a lot of fantasy cliches you might like Malazan. Another really good 'grim" fantasy series that usually gets neglected around here are the Kane novels by Karl Edward Wagner. They're really good but it can be very hard to find a copy. You might also like some of the Elric books by Michael Moorcock. I actually just picked up Blade Itself yesterday because it's cheap on kindle right now but haven't gotten to it yet.
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Apr 29, 2014 16:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The best "gritty" epic fantasy series, as far as I'm aware, is still the first three novels of the Black Company series (the later books it gets debatable). I mean I have liked gritty fantasy novels but I don't necessarily need a 'gritty fantasy' book. I'd just like a good fantasy book with good characters and maybe a cool world. From what you describe I'd probably not want Malazan because Fantasy cliches aren't all that appealing to me. I am looking for a fantasy novel so I guess some tropes come with the territory.
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Apr 29, 2014 16:37
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I mean I have liked gritty fantasy novels but I don't necessarily need a 'gritty fantasy' book. I'd just like a good fantasy book with good characters and maybe a cool world. From what you describe I'd probably not want Malazan because Fantasy cliches aren't all that appealing to me. I am looking for a fantasy novel so I guess some tropes come with the territory. If you're just looking for a good entertaining fantasy book with likeable characters and a decent story, my standard recommendations are Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart, Tigana or Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay, and Stardust or Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman. None of those are particularly dark though (BoB is like the anti-grimdark book, it's the happiest thing ever) with the possible exception of Neverwhere. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 16:39
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I mean I have liked gritty fantasy novels but I don't necessarily need a 'gritty fantasy' book. I'd just like a good fantasy book with good characters and maybe a cool world. From what you describe I'd probably not want Malazan because Fantasy cliches aren't all that appealing to me. I am looking for a fantasy novel so I guess some tropes come with the territory. Abercrombie's really good. His books are gritty and all that but they have a lot of dark humor and the characters are great.
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Apr 29, 2014 16:42
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E: Good characters and dark humor sounds incredibly appealing!Hieronymous Alloy posted:If you're just looking for a good entertaining fantasy book with likeable characters and a decent story, my standard recommendations are Bridge of Birds by Barry Hughart, Tigana or Lions of Al-Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay, and Stardust or Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman. I have enjoyed stardust and I've been meaning to get around to other Neil Gaiman books. I'll check these out. I'm a bit bummed The Warded Man wasn't my thing. I guess thats what you get when you buy things on a whim. I've also never read The Black Company, so maybe I'll pick that up as well.
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Apr 29, 2014 16:45
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Bread Set Jettison posted:E: Good characters and dark humor sounds incredibly appealing! Joey Abs then. If you want a preview the comic book adaptation is going up at http://www.firstlawcomic.com. You get some of the feel, but the wit shows through much better in the books.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:25
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I am struggling to finish The Warded Man by Peter V Brett. I picked it up because it was supposed to be a gritty fantasy novel, and was highly recommended. Unfortunately I 100% can't stand Arlen as a character and think he's super arrogant and annoying. I do like the world quite a bit, and other main characters way way way more than him though. Word on that series is that it starts poor and then gets worse and worse, with some really ugly misogyny creeping in later on. I'd quit while you were ahead.
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Apr 29, 2014 19:09
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Oh Snapple! posted:Yeah, I'm not really going to touch anything else about them but I don't know where anyone could get the idea that Malazan is a series with no payoff. Erikson actually knows how to properly plot and carry out story and character arcs and provide actual payoff to them, it's what puts him miles ahead of the likes of Martin who writes a lot of words whose sum total adds up to jack and poo poo. The series certainly isn't for everyone but the assertion that they have no payoff is Except I thought the payoff for the entire ten book story was pure poo poo. Malazan books are good for each having a big fun event in the middle and end of each book, but I think the big overarching background plot of the books kind of falls apart in the last few books. It came off to me like he reconsidered where the series was going a couple times, and the story suffers for it. I also think he has the tendency to tell you that a character is important without showing you why. Tavore is the most irritating example of this, as she comes off like a DMPC (a D&D DM's pet character). It's too bad, because he writes some characters extremely well, like Tehol and Fiddler. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 19:51
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as gently caress to me. The payoffs are how most of us who enjoy the series came to love it.
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Darth Walrus posted:Word on that series is that it starts poor and then gets worse and worse, with some really ugly misogyny creeping in later on. I'd quit while you were ahead. Yeah the end of the first book felt like it was getting into power fantasy territory, complete with the quickest turnaround ever for a girl getting over being raped. Everything I've heard about the later books indicates it goes downhill p fast. I did like some of the book but everything I've heard about the others made me cut my losses.
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Apr 29, 2014 19:58
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mdemone posted:Well I guess I should read Annihilation if everyone's all gung-ho about it. The prose is pretty uninspiring though if the first chapter is any indication. If you didn't like the first chapter, I don't know if I would necessarily recommend you try to read it anyway. The prose only changes slightly throughout and it's a fairly subtle tonal change as the narrator's understanding of the situation she's in changes. I think it is the way it is for a reason (it's written from the perspective of a field biologist keeping a journal on an expedition, that will presumably be read by future expeditions), but if it doesn't appeal to you, then I would probably wait until the second book comes out in a week and see how you feel after reading the sample for that. On the other hand, it is a really quick read, so if you did decide to try it and don't like it, at least you won't waste much time on it. I am actually interested to see how the writing in the second book will change, since it will almost certainly be told from a different perspective. That was one of the things I liked about the New Ambergris books, was how different the point of view was in each.
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Apr 29, 2014 20:06
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Srice posted:Yeah the end of the first book felt like it was getting into power fantasy territory, complete with the quickest turnaround ever for a girl getting over being raped. Everything I've heard about the later books indicates it goes downhill p fast. I did like some of the book but everything I've heard about the others made me cut my losses. Yep I just got to the rape scene with Leesha and I just don't want to finish the book. I don't mind bad things happening to my favorite characters (like I said, i enjoyed ASOIF), but it felt out of place in the book. Leesha was easily my favorite character and if you're implying that she will suddenly have feelings for arlen after being raped Im going to be disappointed for wasting my time. I just hate that they spend the beginning of the book saying that the demons are these scary motherfuckers that are so loving tough to kill that even when you survive you want to die afterwards. Arlen, however, is 11 and doesn't give a gently caress because I picked it up expecting dark fantasy horror with a mixture of good old fashion "kill the orcs!" Honestly the world building was neat but the characters fell flat for me. Bread Set Jettison fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 20:06
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Does anyone have any opinions on Jack Mcdevitt? He seems to have written a fair amount but can't find opinions on him out there.
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Apr 29, 2014 22:21
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I like his academy series, its all about space archeology, lots of cool mystery stuff. Be aware though a lot of stuff takes a really long time to resolve or isn't resolved at all.
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Apr 29, 2014 22:44
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Just started reading the final book of wheel of time after a 5 year hiatus. Can't believe I wasn't as bothered by "he does rose petal over the moon" as I am now. Anyone else hate the way he describes sword fights? are these real sword moves or is he just making up stuff?
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Apr 29, 2014 23:17
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Lowkin posted:Just started reading the final book of wheel of time after a 5 year hiatus. Can't believe I wasn't as bothered by "he does rose petal over the moon" as I am now. Anyone else hate the way he describes sword fights? are these real sword moves or is he just making up stuff? He's making up stuff but the language is similar to a lot of kung fu sword form names.
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Apr 29, 2014 23:33
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Lowkin posted:Just started reading the final book of wheel of time after a 5 year hiatus. Can't believe I wasn't as bothered by "he does rose petal over the moon" as I am now. Anyone else hate the way he describes sword fights? are these real sword moves or is he just making up stuff? Yeah it's basically how he avoids describing the blocking of the sword fights. It's better than clunky blocking, but it's also a very lame and tired cop out that he does throughout the super long-rear end series.
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Apr 29, 2014 23:36
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:Does anyone have any opinions on Jack Mcdevitt? He seems to have written a fair amount but can't find opinions on him out there. There's nothing really objectionable about the stories, they're just kind of bloodless and forgettable. That said, this more recent series with Alex Benedict (see! I actually remember the name of that one) I find rather more memorable. I did not like Time Travelers Never Die, but that's probably because it retrod so much ground from The Man Who Folded Himself and that came out four decades earlier.
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Apr 30, 2014 00:07
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Yep I just got to the rape scene with Leesha and I just don't want to finish the book. I don't mind bad things happening to my favorite characters (like I said, i enjoyed ASOIF), but it felt out of place in the book. Leesha was easily my favorite character and if you're implying that she will suddenly have feelings for arlen after being raped Im going to be disappointed for wasting my time. It's so close to the end that all you're really "missing" out on after that is Leesha and Arlen rolling around having sex in the mud like a day or two after the rape, and now she's over being raped. I really liked the setting but that stuff really left a bad taste in my mouth, especially when combined with Arlen becoming some super powerful badass. Kinda takes away from the horror aspect when he can now easily manfight all those demons.
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Apr 30, 2014 00:16
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The three main characters in the Warded Man series did suck, their sidekicks were so much better.
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Apr 30, 2014 00:38
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It's not entirely fantasy, but I just started reading Serpent of Venice by Christopher Moore. It's a combination of The Merchant of Venice, Othello, and a bit of The Cask of Amontillado, and it's just as funny as the best of Moore's other work. Although you don't need to read it first, it's a sort of sequel to Fool, which was mostly a take on King Lear with some Macbeth and I'm sure a few other Shakespeare plays that I'm forgetting.
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Apr 30, 2014 02:19
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Hobnob posted:He kind of pushes all the right buttons for things that I really enjoy (Archaeology in mysterious, ancient alien ruins? Yes please) but it all seems so inconsequential that his plots and characters slide right out of my mind without sticking anywhere. Like I've read his series of about six books featuring one particular heroine but I still can't remember her name (I had to look it up: Priscilla Hutchins). I could not tell you the plot of any of these books, other that the answer for What Is Actually Going On And Why, which I can only remember because it so dreadfully silly. Yeah, Mcdevitt have neat stories, which are more of adventure/mystery stories that are completely unoffensive. Sadly enough, pretty unmemorable as well. If one wants to take a break from grim dark and libertarian dreams I guess Mcdevitt is a good choice. Bread Set Jettison posted:I mean I have liked gritty fantasy novels but I don't necessarily need a 'gritty fantasy' book. I'd just like a good fantasy book with good characters and maybe a cool world. From what you describe I'd probably not want Malazan because Fantasy cliches aren't all that appealing to me. I am looking for a fantasy novel so I guess some tropes come with the territory. It is a pretty big misconception that Malazan is full of fantasy cliches. There is very little of how the Hero slays the dragon and gets the princess and the whole kingdom or how a young person develops and becomes a mighty hero. I would for example say that Abercrombie and Sanderson contains a whole lot more of fantasy cliches. On the other hand I guess that Malazan have become so big that it has become a reference point by now. Hieronymous Alloy posted:The best "gritty" epic fantasy series, as far as I'm aware, is still the first three novels of the Black Company series (the later books it gets debatable). I always come back to Elric of Melnibone, since in many ways he is the archetypical tragic hero. I still find the Elric series very good and highly imaginative when it comes to the setting. Fritz Leiber is as well another classical fantasy author, that was early out with gritty fantasy. Fahrd and The Grey Mouser should be read by everyone that like modern gritty authors like Abercrombie. Bread Set Jettison posted:I am struggling to finish The Warded Man by Peter V Brett. I picked it up because it was supposed to be a gritty fantasy novel, and was highly recommended. Unfortunately I 100% can't stand Arlen as a character and think he's super arrogant and annoying. I do like the world quite a bit, and other main characters way way way more than him though. The Blade Itself is great and should be read. Abercrombie have a lot of fantasy cliches, but his stories are good. I always feel like I read a comic when I read Abercrombie. As for the Warded Man and the rest of the Demon Cycle, if you didn't like the first book, it really doesn't get better from there. I liked the setting of the world, and the first part of the first book was really good when demons were powerful and horrifying. Then they become less and less scary and the main characters become more powerful and Brett invents new powerful demons and it just goes downhill throughout the series. Second book was OK, but the third was just a slow meandering and boring piece of crap.
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Apr 30, 2014 09:42
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Cardiac posted:As for the Warded Man and the rest of the Demon Cycle, if you didn't like the first book, it really doesn't get better from there. I liked the setting of the world, and the first part of the first book was really good when demons were powerful and horrifying. Then they become less and less scary and the main characters become more powerful and Brett invents new powerful demons and it just goes downhill throughout the series. Second book was OK, but the third was just a slow meandering and boring piece of crap. Yeah I finished it last night. I think I'm good with the rest of the series.
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Apr 30, 2014 16:59
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Lowly posted:It's hard to analyze Beowulf in any authoritative way, since it's origins are fairly clouded in mystery and even translations are debatable. Pretty much every aspect of Beowulf is subject to some kind of debate, and people can't even agree on when it was composed and who composed it, let alone what the major themes of the poem are. But I would argue that rather than ignoring the consequences of violence, the poem does acknowledge them, as they are very much a part of the Anglo-Saxon world, but they are also a side occurrence in Beowulf, because the poem's main purpose is to describe Beowulf's heroic deeds. Yes, they're a side occurence to Beowulf's heroism. And I sidelined it a bit, but for all the praise he gets, his valour and responsibility are truly admirable - especially, I felt, fighting the dragon. It's more the fact that the heroic ethos minimises dealing with enemies, which seems more praiseworthy to me. But then, I'm not a tenth-century Anglo-Saxon. quote:But there are references to the consequences of violence within the poem (Beowulf's own family history, which leads to his obligation to King Hrothgar, and Beowulf's thoughts on the marriage of Hrothgar's daughter to an enemy clansman, for example) and examples of Beowulf engaging in battles against enemies of his clan (fighting alongside Hygelac in Friesland and later avenging Hygelac's death). These are just not the main setpieces of the poem, which are Beowulf's epic battles against the monsters. I think what makes him a hero is not that he is choosing battles that won't result in revenge, but that he is taking on battles that no one else will fight. And he doesn't choose these battles because of their targets. In the case of Grendel and mom, it is due to the obligation his family owes to King Hrothgar and in the case of the dragon, it is because he is the king and the dragon has attacked his throne-hall and his villages, and it becomes his duty as king to avenge himself and his people. I was sloppy in my original post. I shouldn't have said that Beowulf "goes after monsters without clans"... The fact that loners are more vulnerable than entire families is just a consequence of the importance of kinship. Beowulf's obviously not choosing battles based on his enemies' family trees; it's more that the text hands him those fights in his ignorance. He does have to fight humans, but they're interludes in the text; the meat is the monsters. And because those monsters are inhuman, monstrous, and demonic ("Cain's clan"), Beowulf doesn't deal with them in a way that he'd have to deal with other humans. Can't marry his relatives off to them, pay weregeld, or demand/offer submission. It's violence alone, and it's depicted as working. In other words, the poem acknowledges the cycles of revenge, and then fantasises that they can be stopped through violence. And that seems a weakness to me. I think you're making a bit much of the Grendels' relation to Cain, by the way; it's one (iirc) explicit line and a lot of demonic imagery. Not so much the dragon and the ancients' hoard, though. quote:Anyway, it's fun to talk about Beowulf, because almost nobody really knows much about it for sure. If you are a linguist, you can even get into debates about what individual words mean. It's actually kind of more fun to read all the various debates and interpretations surrounding Beowulf than it is to read the poem itself. The author really is dead. Which translation do you prefer? I read Heaney's but didn't think it was that good, and some of his word choices were very Latinate and didn't fit the Germanic setting at all. Didn't really mind the Irish ones though.
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Apr 30, 2014 17:15
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I gotta be honest, the Mormon talk is un-selling me on Brandon Sanderson. Quick update on my immediate list: I've been listening to the audiobook of Guards! Guards! and I already love Carrot.  And my copy of The Gunslinger arrived today. The cover (I know I shouldn't judge) is really cool, and I already know the opening line is really cool...So now I'm afraid to actually read the book, lest I have all my high expectations dashed. Walh Hara posted:Weird. I believe the average reading spead is around 60 pages/hour (page being between 250 and 300 words). The first 5 books of ASOIAF together is as such about 71 hours of reading material if you don't take into account that these kinds of books tend to read a lot faster than normal. For it to take you 6 months, you probably read an average of about 23 minutes/day. Of course, that's fine and you can choose your own hobbies, but that's honestly very little. Compaire it to how much time you spend surfing the internet daily on average, or how much time you spend watching tv, etc... 
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Apr 30, 2014 18:45
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Remember, Peter Brett wrote The Warded Man on his Treo phone on the subway on the way to his investment banker job.
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Apr 30, 2014 19:17
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Can anyone recommend a fantasy(any type) book / series(preferably finished) where the main character isn't super awesome at their job stuff and where the biggest female character doesn't turn out to be/or turn evil?
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Apr 30, 2014 19:37
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Hel posted:Can anyone recommend a fantasy(any type) book / series(preferably finished) where the main character isn't super awesome at their job stuff and where the biggest female character doesn't turn out to be/or turn evil? First law series by joe Abercrombie Dresden files by Jim butcher (though recent books now hint Harry is a special snowflake rather tan bumbling goon) Laundry series by Charles Stross (bob isn't a very good secret agent, he is just backed by a competent government agency) And of course... "Might I recommend 'A Song of Ice and Fire' by George RR Martin"? Seriously tho, my tastes in fantasy mirror your request, and I like all those, so I expect you will
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Apr 30, 2014 19:43
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Fried Chicken posted:Laundry series by Charles Stross (bob isn't a very good secret agent, he is just backed by a competent government agency)
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Apr 30, 2014 19:46
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Fried Chicken posted:First law series by joe Abercrombie The biggest female character is a half demon, and half of her dialogue is just hissing.
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Apr 30, 2014 19:48
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