wateroverfire posted:

Most posters here have perspectives, one way or another, derived from . . .

wateroverfire posted:

I've worked with entrepreneurs and business owners and I found them in general much more thoughtful on economic issues than people on average. Maybe it's different here because Chile is such a small country and policy has such an outsized effect on business, or because finance in particular requires people to stay informed on economic issues. I suspect, rather, that we're valuing different things as knowledge and perspective. D&D as a body of posters is intensely ideological. Most posters here have perspectives, one way or another, derived from media and punditry that we all acknowledge is terrible, some posters have academic knowledge filtered through other commentators ("I read a blog that referenced a paper, etc"), a few actually slog through some academic literature, but all of it gets stripped of context and content until it supports the dominant D&D narrative (Capitalism BAD, white people BAD, etc). Very seldom can we even agree what the relevant facts of a matter are, or that an argument has been settled and should be abandoned (example: the fringe critiques of neoclassical economics that constantly resurface despite being debunked repeatedly).

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I think you're concluding a hell of a lot about the other posters here without much evidence for doing so. A lot of the people around here have Marxist or far-left positions because they have been hosed hard by right-wing free-market capitalist ideology.

I don't know that much about how things are in Chile, but keep in mind that you're talking to a forum largely full of people who

1) Are likely unemployed, especially if they entered the workforce after 2008, because there is a massive shortage of available jobs especially for younger workers.

2) Do not have access to publicly funded health care and face personal bankruptcy if they have any major medical emergencies.

3) If they choose to go to college or get a higher education, face a lifetime of crippling student loan debt, debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy under American law. (American "millenials" collectively have over a trillion dollars in student loan debt).

4) See solutions for all of these problems repeatedly blocked by a Republican legislature that very recently tried to literally destroy the entire nation's economy rather than let a black President solve a problem for once (i.e., the recent government shutdown crisis, not to mention the repeated Republican flirting with debt default, which would have been an utter disaster for the entire world).


It's not like this forum is some sort of Marxist internet honeypot. It's this way because most of the younger people in America have real life experiences that make them very sympathetic to leftist politics.

Ardennes posted:

To be honest, I usually see posters on the left here make more of an attempt to at least provide some documentation or evidence (hint: you absolutely haven't). It sounds like you started with the idea that posters here often are on the left and worked backwards from there, they must be lazy and ill-informed because they are on the left.

I think the actual hardcore ideologue is yourself,]. The fact that you think "the fringe critiques of neoclassical economics that constantly resurface despite being debunked repeatedly" is actually true shows exactly how little you have followed the discussion, especially if you think they are "fringe critiques."

asdf32 posted:

Huh? First I don't think you have evidence that people here actually fit your criteria. Lots of posters are from Europe and I seriously doubt most are unemployed.

Second, in the US even people meeting those criteria are not socialists or far left on average.

This forum really is something of a honeypot for the left. And in general, being a leftist isn't some obviously logical outcome of a particular set of circumstances. Politics isn't that simple.

quote:

Young people -- the collegiate and post-college crowd, who have served as the most visible face of the Occupy Wall Street movement -- might be getting more comfortable with socialism. That's the surprising result from a Pew Research Center poll that aims to measure American sentiments toward different political labels.


The poll, published Wednesday, found that while Americans overall tend to oppose socialism by a strong margin -- 60 percent say they have a negative view of it, versus just 31 percent who say they have a positive view -- socialism has more fans than opponents among the 18-29 crowd. Forty-nine percent of people in that age bracket say they have a positive view of socialism; only 43 percent say they have a negative view.

quote:

For a whole decade, between 1993 and 2003, nearly half of all young people identified as either Democratic or left-leaning, while 42 percent of the same age group claimed Republicanism as their ideology of choice. But since 2006, that gap has dramatically widened. Fifty-four percent of young people now identify as left-leaning, while only 36 percent — nearly 20 whole percentage points lower — align themselves with Republicans.

wateroverfire posted:

Read, for instance, the sections of the Marxism thread in which some of the actual economists who post here come out to debunk those critiques - just look for a big block of Unlearning posts and then the follow-ups from Falcon and Oakland Martini and others. Read the Econ thread in Ask / Tell.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Heh, I wouldn't have made statements like that without at least some evidence.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/young-people-socialism_n_1175218.html

Similarly,


People don't come to SA because of politics -- we're not a site like Free Republic or KOS that attracts a particular group. It's just that the people who do come here tend to skew young, and in America right now skewing young means skewing hard left.

asdf32 posted:

Right, and that does nothing to support the claim that most people should be unemployed or that most people here would be far left (I don't count a positive view of socialism as being far left) because of age demographics alone. That says 35% should be republicans. Can anyone name a republican here.

asdf32 posted:

Right, and that does nothing to support the claim that most people should be unemployed or that most people here would be far left (I don't count a positive view of socialism as being far left) because of age demographics alone. That says 35% should be republicans for example. Can anyone name a republican here.

So there is some obvious self selection going on here.

OwlBot 2000 posted:

There are plenty in GBS but DnD requires sources for arguments. Hard to get anywhere with opposition to gay marriage, supporting the war in Iraq, supply side economics and deregulation, DEBT and BENGHAZI!! if you need to provide evidence for your views.

OwlBot 2000 posted:

There are plenty in GBS but DnD requires sources for arguments. Hard to get anywhere with opposition to gay marriage, supporting the war in Iraq, supply side economics and deregulation, DEBT and BENGHAZI!! if you need to provide evidence for your views.

asdf32 posted:

Politics is mostly not about facts and nothing comes down to facts alone.

Franks Happy Place posted:

And this post is related to the book people are discussing because:

asdf32 posted:

Politics is mostly not about facts and nothing comes down to facts alone.

asdf32 posted:

So there is some obvious self selection going on here.

wateroverfire posted:

I suspect, rather, that we're valuing different things as knowledge and perspective. D&D as a body of posters is intensely ideological. Most posters here have perspectives, one way or another, derived from media and punditry

asdf32 posted:

Politics is mostly not about facts

asdf32 posted:

Politics is mostly not about facts and nothing comes down to facts alone.

asdf32 posted:

This forum really is something of a honeypot for the left. And in general, being a leftist isn't some obviously logical outcome of a particular set of circumstances. Politics isn't that simple.

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:

Most posters here are Democrats who are soft on social democracy. I do not think most posters here are leftists; they are generally liberal. The forums have a history and most of that history is verboten to talk about but the rise and fall of hell dump, Ron Paul, and LF are the three factors that pushed the real reactionaries out of DnD and turned it into a more or less party line College Democrats board with a number of actual leftists still kicking around from time to time.

computer parts posted:

I don't think party line College Democrats masturbate over shooting southerners but otherwise yeah pretty much.

Nessus posted:

Hey man, the southerners jerk off over shooting me. Mutually Assured Ejaculation.

computer parts posted:

I don't think party line College Democrats masturbate over shooting southerners but otherwise yeah pretty much.

wateroverfire posted:

Wow, this thread went places.

I've worked with entrepreneurs and business owners and I found them in general much more thoughtful on economic issues than people on average.

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:

Most posters here are Democrats who are soft on social democracy. I do not think most posters here are leftists; they are generally liberal. The forums have a history and most of that history is verboten to talk about but the rise and fall of hell dump, Ron Paul, and LF are the three factors that pushed the real reactionaries out of DnD and turned it into a more or less party line College Democrats board with a number of actual leftists still kicking around from time to time.

OwlBot 2000 posted:

There are plenty in GBS but DnD requires sources for arguments. Hard to get anywhere with opposition to gay marriage, supporting the war in Iraq, supply side economics and deregulation, DEBT and BENGHAZI!! if you need to provide evidence for your views.

agarjogger posted:

I wouldn't say they are required. But even if you post correct opinions that basically contribute nothing, there's still a chance of being called out as a non-useful poster who probably didn't check any of his poo poo. And because many of us are contrarian as hell, embarrassing levels of consensus will usually get disrupted for no other reason than it's less boring.

And I'd say we treat conservatives pretty well, considering how much we hate them and how bad and awful and smelly they are. It's too bad most well-meaning conservatives have been polluted with some ridiculous belief that eventually rears its head and is impossible to get around or ignore.

Stick around guys, you could become the next Arkane!

asdf32 posted:

Politics is mostly not about facts and nothing comes down to facts alone.

archangelwar posted:

rscott posted:

maybe if you guys would stop chanting SEC all the time the rest of the country wouldn't want to loving shoot you christ

Nonsense posted:

It helps knowing the only proud southern sports thing is even more corrupt than the professional leagues.

anonumos posted:

Oh shut the gently caress up. If you base your politics on anything BUT facts your politics are irrelevant.


Edit: I'm getting real sick of the "pity a poor conservative" bullshit.

asdf32 posted:

Ideology and politics are little bit like a crime scene. There are facts scattered around all over the place like clues but none of us will ever have the whole picture at any one time. You peice together your version of reality by filling in the blanks yourself. Facts are a guide at best. It's not strictly that facts don't matter, it's also that well never have enough of them.

asdf32 posted:

Ideology and politics are little bit like a crime scene. There are facts scattered around all over the place like clues but none of us will ever have the whole picture at any one time. You peice together your version of reality by filling in the blanks yourself. Facts are a guide at best. It's not strictly that facts don't matter, it's also that well never have enough of them.

Also I'm not a conservative and in not complaining.

icantfindaname posted:

This site isn't particularly ideological, there's a minority of vocal Marxists, and everyone else is a generic liberal / social democrat. It's very anti-conservative and anti-libertarian, but beyond that if you're in the left 2/3 of the political spectrum nobody will hassle you about ideology.