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Cimber posted:absolutely, everyone should be saving for retirement as soon as you start working. Even 25 bucks a week at 5 percent interest can make a huge difference in 40 years. ($165,930.94) What are you investing in that you are seeing a stable 5% return? That is a stock or real estate level, not IRA.
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May 9, 2014 16:24
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Cimber posted:as long as your ROR is greater than changes in the CPI, you are fine. What I am saying is that people with bigger wealth expect the same thing, everyone has the same expectations that their time was worth some something. So those with more wealth will always get their way because that's the point of wealth, you see how the situation compounds like it has since all of time? Like a King was once just a warlord who had just slowly gained wealth by extracting taxes from villages he "protected" in order to grow enough to subject increasingly more villages.
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May 9, 2014 16:25
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tbp posted:I don't think you know what people who work at banks do. Do you think we are talking about tellers here?
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May 9, 2014 16:27
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Femur posted:What I am saying is that people with bigger wealth expect the same thing, everyone has the same expectations that their time was worth some something. Yes, r > g so we are all screwed. On that note: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/pope-demands-legitimate-redistribution-wealth-23651955
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May 9, 2014 16:28
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SedanChair posted:Do you think we are talking about tellers here? Who are you talking about? M&A? Brokers? I can't seem to figure it out, which is why "Kill all bankers" is ridiculous even without considering the hypocrisy.
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May 9, 2014 16:31
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Fried Chicken posted:What are you investing in that you are seeing a stable 5% return? That is a stock or real estate level, not IRA. Err, an IRA lets you invest in stocks and real estate.
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May 9, 2014 16:33
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Femur posted:I think the problem is that wages are the same, but costs keep rising. Investing looks more and more like a scam; with rolling crashes that destroy these retirement dreams. The S&P 500 is much higher than it was at the 2007 peak now. If you left money in you were fine.
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May 9, 2014 16:35
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Fried Chicken posted:What are you investing in that you are seeing a stable 5% return? That is a stock or real estate level, not IRA. Considering the median return on the S&P 500 has been 12.64% over the last 43 years, and you can invest in a fund with an expense ratio as low as .05%... I'd say there are quite a bit of options available.
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May 9, 2014 16:42
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Necc0 posted:I did go to a few of my city's OWS protests but it was quickly apparent that not only were they not going to accomplish anything but they were incapable of it as well. I was mostly concerned with getting my life back on track but I did participate in local primaries + contributed to civil discourse. Not like that accomplished anything either. You didn't change the system therefore you can't criticize it. Or something. Just be glad you didn't get more involved, the FBI might have tried to convince you to blow up a bridge.
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May 9, 2014 16:44
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But everything's fine because some people make a lot of money on stocks.
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May 9, 2014 16:46
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Fried Chicken posted:On that note: 
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May 9, 2014 16:46
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shrike82 posted:Err, an IRA lets you invest in stocks and real estate. A self directed IRA is heavily regulated so if you want to invest in those it would be foolish to do so with said self directed IRA. You are capped on annual contribution so you get liquidity issues, RMD issues are greater because you are dealing with a more illiquid asset, and there are a host of prohibited transactions. Real estate and stocks need to be part of your retirement portfolio, but in general it is better to make them distinct from the IRA. Plus those lack the stable return I asked about. https://www.mybanktracker.com/ira-savings Handy comparison of rates, but note that they are all very far from 5% apy
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May 9, 2014 16:46
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tbp posted:Who are you talking about? M&A? Brokers? I can't seem to figure it out, which is why "Kill all bankers" is ridiculous even without considering the hypocrisy. Anyone in finance that makes over the SS tax cap should be forced to work as a Wal-Mart greeter until the people's council has determined that they're fit to rejoin society. The people's Wal-Mart, of course.
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May 9, 2014 16:47
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Boon posted:Considering the median return on the S&P 500 has been 12.64% over the last 43 years, and you can invest in a fund with an expense ratio as low as .05%... I'd say there are quite a bit of options available. So did you not read what you quoted or are you unaware the S&P is a collection of stocks? Or do you think that just because the S&P sees 12% there must be an IRA somewhere that gives 5%? Someone show me an IRA that gets 5% apy. I want to park some money there.
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May 9, 2014 16:50
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:The S&P 500 is much higher than it was at the 2007 peak now. If you left money in you were fine. There are millions of people, some of them might be affected in those years? Like they are scared and don't know better so pull a little out just to be safe? Who knows what the bottom is? Is someone dumb for guessing incorrectly? Or even someone who was laid off and had to pay bills might pull some out, massively hurting his future, but he has to think of tomorrow, not next decade. All these people did what they were suppose to, and the system is clearly a liar. It basicly saids that when some dude pays another to work on his stuff, sells it, and everyone gained value all along this process. Something was consumed in this process, but the numbers keeps going up up up?? What did the owner lose? He is getting fatter while other eats, he is clearly magician.
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May 9, 2014 16:51
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5 percent is a very conservative rate of return on a mixture of bond securities, equity and cash. Its easily doable with low risk. However if you want more risk you would get more of a return.
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May 9, 2014 16:52
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Fried Chicken posted:So did you not read what you quoted or are you unaware the S&P is a collection of stocks? You realize that an IRA isn't a savings account, right? You could open an IRA through a varied group of institutions (I recommend Vanguard) and just park all of your 5500 a year in a cheap index fund. EDIT: My own IRA has seen a 3-year RoR of ~15%, so... that one I guess. Boon fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 9, 2014 |
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May 9, 2014 16:53
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Femur posted:There are millions of people, some of them might be affected in those years? Like they are scared and don't know better so pull a little out just to be safe? Who knows what the bottom is? Is someone dumb for guessing incorrectly? Or even someone who was laid off and had to pay bills might pull some out, massively hurting his future, but he has to think of tomorrow, not next decade. Basically no one tells you to pull out when things are in free fall if you just want to preserve your long term wealth because you'll probably lose more in the long run compared with just staying in. The guy who needs money to pay bills? Sure, that's fine.
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May 9, 2014 16:53
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I don't have any problem with the financial industry existing, I have a problem with the fact that when they gently caress up, other people see the consequences. If you could insulate the rest of the country from having to care what Wall Street is doing, great.
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May 9, 2014 16:54
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Fried Chicken posted:A self directed IRA is heavily regulated so if you want to invest in those it would be foolish to do so with said self directed IRA. You are capped on annual contribution so you get liquidity issues, RMD issues are greater because you are dealing with a more illiquid asset, and there are a host of prohibited transactions. Real estate and stocks need to be part of your retirement portfolio, but in general it is better to make them distinct from the IRA. What? Most IRAs will let you choose individual stocks. https://www.fidelity.com/retirement-planning/learn-about-iras/ira-choosing-investments It would probably be a bad idea unless you've had one for decades or rolled over a huge 401(k), but it's possible. And of course there's always cheap index funds.
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May 9, 2014 16:58
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Fried Chicken posted:A self directed IRA is heavily regulated so if you want to invest in those it would be foolish to do so with said self directed IRA. You are capped on annual contribution so you get liquidity issues, RMD issues are greater because you are dealing with a more illiquid asset, and there are a host of prohibited transactions. Real estate and stocks need to be part of your retirement portfolio, but in general it is better to make them distinct from the IRA. Jesus, please don't try to lecture people on investing or finance if you don't have a clue. You get access to a wide range of investments with an IRA and most people actually invest in equities with it.
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May 9, 2014 17:00
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computer parts posted:Basically no one tells you to pull out when things are in free fall if you just want to preserve your long term wealth because you'll probably lose more in the long run compared with just staying in. Yeah, you can sit there and say that, but you're not in that situation, and not everyone is as clever as you. Maybe they convince themselves to sell now then buy at the bottom, so they can atleast avoid a worst case scenario, pressure makes us do crazy things. I mean why am I even bothering, go to Walmart and see how many old people are working there. Plus, imho, the tech bubble was what really educated the public on investing and this current fad; so older folks might be excused for getting a late start or not knowing these basic "rules."
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May 9, 2014 17:10
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SedanChair posted:Anyone in finance that makes over the SS tax cap should be forced to work as a Wal-Mart greeter until the people's council has determined that they're fit to rejoin society. The people's Wal-Mart, of course. You could be IT at a bank and make that. It's a ludicrous sentiment based on deep misunderstanding.
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May 9, 2014 17:13
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Wolfsbane posted:This is only true if you can predict with 100% accuracy, in advance of the election, who the top two parties will be. Also if you disregard the effects a strong third party showing can have on the policies of the other candidates in the following elections (the Tea Party seem to have managed this without even running candidates, which is a neat trick). "The Tea Party" is not, at all, a party. They are just Republicans.
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May 9, 2014 17:16
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tbp posted:You could be IT at a bank and make that. It's a ludicrous sentiment based on deep misunderstanding. Being the IT guy in a bank doesn't make you "anyone in finance", what the hell. Is the call center agent taking take-out orders for McDonalds a chef?
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May 9, 2014 17:16
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tbp posted:You could be IT at a bank and make that. It's a ludicrous sentiment based on deep misunderstanding. If you could possibly be mistaken for Patrick Batemann, it's a safe bet you're going to the block.
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May 9, 2014 17:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:Being the IT guy in a bank doesn't make you "anyone in finance", what the hell. Is the call center agent taking take-out orders for McDonalds a chef? Fine, what about the middle office folks? They'll make over that specified amount but their job can be largely focused on managing risk. Are they dead or are they cool? My entire point is that the anger is largely uneducated and misdirected.
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May 9, 2014 17:24
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tbp posted:My entire point is that the anger is largely uneducated You ever stop to think; "Maybe the sort of thing I just said is why the working class get mad at the rich and their supporters?"
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May 9, 2014 17:29
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Good news Romney will 100% not be running for president in 2016!Talmonis posted:You ever stop to think; "Maybe the sort of thing I just said is why the working class get mad at the rich and their supporters?" You ever stop to think, maybe I shouldn't respond to trolls?
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May 9, 2014 17:29
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Talmonis posted:You ever stop to think; "Maybe the sort of thing I just said is why the working class get mad at the rich and their supporters?"  Do I care if my Republican Uncle gets mad because I told him his views on Reagan being good are uneducated?
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May 9, 2014 17:30
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Oh, he'll run, because he has nothing else better to do with his time and money. He's not gonna win, though.
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May 9, 2014 17:32
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tbp literally has a multi-page rap sheet, don't argue with him, it just lets him poo poo up the thread faster.
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May 9, 2014 17:37
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:tbp literally has a multi-page rap sheet, don't argue with him, it just lets him poo poo up the thread faster. This is the laziest thing. My argument is both cogent and logical, but because it is slightly different to the ludicrous memetic one parroted over the past few pages suddenly it isn't worth engaging (because I have probations on a comedy forum for unrelated things)? Surely if there's something wrong with what I am saying someone could point it out.
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May 9, 2014 17:40
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tbp posted:Fine, what about the middle office folks? They'll make over that specified amount but their job can be largely focused on managing risk. Are they dead or are they cool? This anger is necessary to effect change. If we for example shoot a 1% into the sun at random every day, there would be motivation to make everyone even, thus reducing your individual chance right? The threat of violence is enough to call others "master," so I don't know why you believe we don't live in that world.
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May 9, 2014 17:40
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SedanChair posted:"Do anything?" Who the gently caress do you think we are, Tim Geithner? In this Geithner claims that the banks have paid back the money they got in the bailout. Anyone know if that's actually true?
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May 9, 2014 17:40
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Magres posted:In this Geithner claims that the banks have paid back the money they got in the bailout. Anyone know if that's actually true? Afaik all of the TARP money has been paid back with interest. Two years ago.
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May 9, 2014 17:41
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Femur posted:This anger is necessary to effect change. If we for example shoot a 1% into the sun at random every day, there would be motivation to make everyone even, thus reducing your individual chance right? The threat of violence in a developed first world nation is essentially neutered. You're not going to see a violent, anti-finance revolution within your lifetime. zoux posted:Afaik all of the TARP money has been paid back with interest. It has.
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May 9, 2014 17:42
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Yeah I guess things are truly hopeless then as we won't see anti-finance anything in our lifetime.
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May 9, 2014 17:45
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AstheWorldWorlds posted:Yeah I guess things are truly hopeless then Hey, now yer catchin' on!
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May 9, 2014 17:47
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zoux posted:Hey, now yer catchin' on! As a kid I always wondered what the quiet desperation of the average Roman during the latter years of the empire felt like. Little did I know what was to await me.
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May 9, 2014 17:48
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