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There is a Chinese person portrayed relatively positively in the series. So of course they are a) female and b) not actually from China but a Chinese-American along with c) not part of the Chinese government (~kawaii triad leader~).
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May 14, 2014 09:36
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boredsatellite posted:Honestly it's a rough tossup between creepy fanservice shows and shows that pander to right wing otakus with terrible nationalist stuff Right wing otakus at least consent to having terrible opinions. WickedHate posted:Using China as the bad guy could be nationalist but not necessarily. Yeah the national enemies that Japan's occupied within the last century and there's still lingering resentment and an ongoing argument between the two nations over the ownership of some dumbass unoccupied rocks in the assend of nowhere. Making the national enemies comically evil and dedicated to overthrowing glorious nippon isn't nationalism it's ????
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May 14, 2014 12:56
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Having just finished watching Code Geass, how does Mahouka compare? Code Geass has nuances to its crazy hypernationalism, even with the poor innocent Japanese civilians massacred in the streets by faceless Britannian soldiers. But they also deliberately blur the boundaries of Us and Other, setting the viewpoint characters amongst the invading Other, and making them some of the more important and likeable. Like Shirley and Milly and all that student council bullshit, they were so recognisably japanese and drew upon familar cultural tropes. If anything, it seemed that the purpose of that was to hold a twisted mirror to the imperialist excesses that the audience is themselves complicit in. It was also deliberately internationalist, in that the Japanese were not alone in their struggles. Code Geass seemed to more strongly denounce any idea of unchecked personal power held by Great Men. All of Britannian's actions could only occur in the system of absolute control by the nobility. The Euphinator could only occur if soldiers are willing to obey monstrous commands without any pretext). And at the end, the only way to redeem Lelouch's (an excellent multi-faceted character by the way) Great Man actions was a public suicide.
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May 14, 2014 12:59
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Code Geass is a fun ride with entertaining characters that becomes a glorious trainwreck. The main characters are somewhat layered and as you said, while there is a strong nationalistic vibe there's good and evil people from every country. This is unironically nationalistic and the main character siblings are both Mary Sues. The brother is basically a ninja genius ultimate wizard soldier, and the sister is literally the most powerful wizard in the school. There's no depth, it's just interesting how bad this is. By all means watch this show, but I wouldn't dream of comparing it to Code Geass.
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May 14, 2014 13:09
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She is the most powerful wizard in the school even though she is using half of her power to seal half of Tatsuya's. It is hilarious.
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May 14, 2014 13:33
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Serious Frolicking posted:She is the most powerful wizard in the school even though she is using half of her power to seal half of Tatsuya's. It is hilarious. Oh so that's why Tatsuya's so wary about the girl with the glasses. I mean I hadn't got far enough to find out the reason but who the gently caress cares about spoilers for this garbage?
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May 14, 2014 14:18
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HiveCommander posted:This. Japan vs China exists for the same reason USA vs Russia is the basis of so many novels, movies and games. There's history of war and violence between them, and any negative portrayal of the Taliban/Islam is a no-go as far as mainstream media is concerned. Except in the instance of USA vs Russia, neither side had committed genocide against each others civilian population, raped and pillaged each others territories and those within them, or committed other wartime atrocities as the Japanese did leading up to and during World War II. What's particularly infuriating to me is that these events are downplayed or ignored in Japanese history curriculums and they whitewash the events of the war to paint the Japanese in a better light. While it's common for history to be distorted for the benefit of the country it's taught in, it's inexcusable for the Japanese to do this with the amount of innocent blood on their hands. Had they taken an example from the Germans and taught the dangers of hypernationalism, I'd be far more forgiving towards the Japanese and wouldn't be nearly as offended about Japanese nationalism.
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May 14, 2014 14:54
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Edward IV posted:Except in the instance of USA vs Russia, neither side had committed genocide against each others civilian population, raped and pillaged each others territories and those within them, or committed other wartime atrocities as the Japanese did leading up to and during World War II. What's particularly infuriating to me is that these events are downplayed or ignored in Japanese history curriculums and they whitewash the events of the war to paint the Japanese in a better light. While it's common for history to be distorted for the benefit of the country it's taught in, it's inexcusable for the Japanese to do this with the amount of innocent blood on their hands. Had they taken an example from the Germans and taught the dangers of hypernationalism, I'd be far more forgiving towards the Japanese and wouldn't be nearly as offended about Japanese nationalism. Hey, most German historians say the holocaust was either not as bad as everyone says or they flat out deny it happening. Like you said, they've gotta save face. Can't be having people realise how evil they were during WWII.
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May 14, 2014 15:22
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Ytlaya posted:I would consider pretty much any plot that involves the home country being portrayed as "good" and another country being portrayed as "bad" in a black/white fashion nationalist. The more of a strawman the enemy country is, the more nationalist the story. Black and white how, exactly? There are bad Japanese characters, and it only seems like the Chinese government is antagonistic. I guess if you're definition of nationalist is "there's an antagonistic country" then I suppose it is, but that's really broad.
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May 14, 2014 16:00
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Edward IV posted:Except in the instance of USA vs Russia, neither side had committed genocide against each others civilian population, raped and pillaged each others territories and those within them, or committed other wartime atrocities as the Japanese did leading up to and during World War II. What's particularly infuriating to me is that these events are downplayed or ignored in Japanese history curriculums and they whitewash the events of the war to paint the Japanese in a better light. While it's common for history to be distorted for the benefit of the country it's taught in, it's inexcusable for the Japanese to do this with the amount of innocent blood on their hands. Had they taken an example from the Germans and taught the dangers of hypernationalism, I'd be far more forgiving towards the Japanese and wouldn't be nearly as offended about Japanese nationalism. Generally I certainly would say that a work that has an author or main character from a culture that has historically oppressed another culture, the presentation of that other culture should conform to a slightly higher standard. For Japanese that would be Chinese, Koreans and Ainu.
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May 14, 2014 16:01
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WickedHate posted:Black and white how, exactly? There are bad Japanese characters, and it only seems like the Chinese government is antagonistic. But every bad japanese character has been working for the chinese government.
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May 14, 2014 16:44
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Namtab posted:But every bad japanese character has been working for the chinese government. Yes, but it's not saying the Japanese are inherently better from being Japanese.
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May 14, 2014 16:55
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Japanese people are good except when literally hypnotised by the evil chinese terrorists (which every japanese character working for blanche was). This is pretty much the literal definition of nationalism. Your argument "but maybe it isn't" isn't ignoring some debatable subtext. It's ignoring actual stuff written in the books. The books are openly anti-chinese in that the chinese are stated to be the enemy, all the japanese characters are stated to have been hypnotised by the chinese. You see that and bury your head in the sand about what the books are actually saying. This isn't "ADTRW teaches wickedhate college level english", this is "ADTRW tries to teach wickedhate what sentences mean". A 13 year old could get the message better than you. I honestly hope you're legitimately trolling because the alternative is that you're an idiot.
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May 14, 2014 17:36
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WickedHate posted:Yes, but it's not saying the Japanese are inherently better from being Japanese. The series doesn't have to explicitly say "Every single Japanese person is good and superior to every single Chinese person" to be nationalist or racist. WickedHate posted:Black and white how, exactly? There are bad Japanese characters, and it only seems like the Chinese government is antagonistic. If there's an antagonistic country that is portrayed as being comically evil (and a home country that is shown in an almost universally positive light or at least not a negative one), that's pretty nationalist. The real world is rarely so black and white. Other posters also already mentioned the fact that the bad Japanese characters were working for China (or even worse, mind-controlled). tonberrytoby posted:A better comparison to Japan vs. China would be USA vs. Native Americans or USA vs. Afro-Americans. To be fair, this would only really work if Native Americans or Afro-Americans vastly outnumbered whites and had a drastically larger economy and more powerful military. But yeah, the fact that the Japanese committed atrocities against the Chinese makes it worse than if it were, say, Canada instead.
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May 14, 2014 17:57
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Phobophilia posted:Having just finished watching Code Geass, how does Mahouka compare? It doesn't really. For my money, Mahouka seems to be closer to the real definition of a trainwreck. It's less crazy than Code Geass I guess, but surprisingly worse for it. Mahouka lacks the sheer sense of fun and self-awareness, the main characters seem bland in comparison and the politics are more serious yet also more offensive and insular, going by everything discussed here so far...which is more fun to read up on than watching the actual show.
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May 14, 2014 18:26
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A reminder to everyone:WickedHate posted:I can probably keep ignoring the worst parts. So far the supposed message can be knocked off with wishful thinking and hoping that it's not got deeper meaning. Would be cool to read an interview with the author, though. He sees it, he's just actively ignoring it.
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May 14, 2014 18:36
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Mahouka is dull. Code Geass had its faults, but that wasn't one of them.
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May 14, 2014 18:37
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BlitzBlast posted:He sees it, he's just actively ignoring it. Ignoring it is one thing, he sees it and is actively burying his head in the sand screaming "that's not what he's saying"
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May 14, 2014 18:39
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Well of course, if you like a show then clearly it must have no faults whatsoever and any critique is just wrong!  He's pretty much just trolling all of you, let it go and let the thread die the death it deserves.
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May 14, 2014 18:42
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BlitzBlast posted:A reminder to everyone: I can see how it can be interpreted that way but am not letting assumptions get in the way of enjoying. BlitzBlast posted:Well of course, if you like a show then clearly it must have no faults whatsoever and any critique is just wrong! It does have faults though. Real ones.
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May 14, 2014 18:48
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WickedHate posted:It does have faults though. Real ones. You actually think there's faults? Let's hear them.
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May 14, 2014 18:52
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Namtab posted:You actually think there's faults? Let's hear them. I don't think he ever denied the incest stuff, at least.
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May 14, 2014 18:58
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Namtab posted:You actually think there's faults? Let's hear them. It doesn't explain enough. It's got the little side series for that, though. The sister's dependence on her brother seems unhealthy, like dragging him to that meeting. Tatsuya does get complimented too much. Ytlaya posted:I don't think he ever denied the incest stuff, at least. Nope. Also, just for the record, everyone keeps calling me he/him and I'm not a guy.
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May 14, 2014 19:01
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It's been a day, let's have some more book content.quote:Leo was charging towards the ball that no one was covering. Also because Yoshida Mikihiko has managed to surprise our lord and master Tatsuya he's probably going to be a key character. WickedHate posted:Also, just for the record, everyone keeps calling me he/him and I'm not a guy.
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May 14, 2014 19:05
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HiveCommander posted:Hey, most German historians say the holocaust was either not as bad as everyone says or they flat out deny it happening. Like you said, they've gotta save face. Can't be having people realise how evil they were during WWII. Where do you get that idea, I can't see anyone here, historian or otherwise, deny or downplay the Holocaust without effectively committing career suicide.
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May 14, 2014 20:23
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Isn't holocaust denying literally a crime in germany? E: wikipedia says yes Namtab fucked around with this message at 20:29 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 20:25
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HiveCommander posted:Hey, most German historians say the holocaust was either not as bad as everyone says or they flat out deny it happening. Like you said, they've gotta save face. Can't be having people realise how evil they were during WWII. Which historians? We're basically admitting to almost every single thing we did during WWII and any person that states the holocaust didn't happen gets publically ridiculed by the media and the politicians because there'll be an immense outcry the moment anything denouncing the holocaust is even uttered. Unless you're super rightwing in which case nobody gives two shits about your opinion you probably won't find anyone with such an opinion. Namtab posted:Isn't holocaust denying literally a crime in germany? That as well.
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May 14, 2014 20:29
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I thought that sort of thing was more popular in austria.
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May 14, 2014 20:32
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Namtab posted:It's been a day, let's have some more book content. I wonder how good the quality of writing is in Japanese. We know that the translation is bad, but I wonder if it sounds just as stilted and dull in the original.
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May 16, 2014 02:21
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Ytlaya posted:I wonder how good the quality of writing is in Japanese. We know that the translation is bad, but I wonder if it sounds just as stilted and dull in the original. As someone already mentioned it earlier in the thread, this started as an online novel. And it shows. You'd think that, after getting his lovely glorified fanfiction published, that an editor would step in and tell Sato to get his act together and start reining in his hard-on for verbal diarrhea that goes loving nowhere (a.k.a "Exposition"). But no; to give small credit where it's due, the guy does have some clue for how to do world-building, it's just really tragic that he often has to do info-dumps and that he decided to go with the 2 most unappealing main characters this side of... what, Guilty Crown? Yeah, let's go with that. I don't remember if it was mentioned in this very thread or on the Code Geass one, but part of what made Code Geass work was that, despite all the elements to make it a less-than-stellar work, it knew how to make light of itself at times. Some elements (probably in no small part thanks to the character design provided by CLAMP) looked straight out of a Takarazuka Play in just how colorful they looked. It also had both a really great cast and a really rich world that, while never losing focus from our main parties for long, it allowed you to get some idea of the state of the world outside of Japan. And while it did lost its footing, it still managed to stay entertaining all the way through. Which is something that I really can't say about this series nor from Guilty Crown. So, to put it in one sentence: Yes, the novels are a stilted and dull mess on the original recipe as well. e: Android app 
Wark Say fucked around with this message at 20:05 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 19:57
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Some of the world building is good, some of it adds absolutely nothing. I've watched 3 of those side eps where they do the world building exposition. The entire contents of the second one add nothing to the series whatsoever. It's all this bollocks about what magic specifically is and going on about particles and stuff, but it honestly adds nothing of worth. Everything in it can be summarised is "magic was always real, we just came up with the technology to make it practically usable". Going back to the poo poo I quoted, this whole future of football that's played in a transparent cube means nothing. Chances are that football will be played pretty much the same in the year 2100 as it is now because the core principles of football have remained roughly the same for about a millenia. Saying it's in a cube, making it like playing squash with rebounds or whatever. All this adds nothing to the scene. Let me try an experiment here. quote:Leo was charging towards the ball that no one was covering. That's the original. Now let's use actual football. quote:Leo was charging towards the ball that no one was covering. Nothing is lost. The scene remains the same and it can be described as a thing the reader can relate to, thus aiding immersion. One of the worst problems with sci-fi is that they make changes to the stuff of today with little thought as to what would cause the change. Yes sports will evolve a little, but I'll drop dead of shock the second they start shoving it in boxes. The stuff with the computers however, the flatter screens that can use touch technology, that's reasonable extrapolation of current technological changes and therefore works.
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May 16, 2014 21:17
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All I can think of when I see that scene (and, for that matter, a lot of the stuff you link from the LN) is this classic http://notes.greaterthanorequalto.net/post/3963193805/note-ive-been-wanting-to-link-to-this-for-a
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May 16, 2014 21:58
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Namtab posted:One of the worst problems with sci-fi is that they make changes to the stuff of today with little thought as to what would cause the change. Yes sports will evolve a little, but I'll drop dead of shock the second they start shoving it in boxes.
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May 16, 2014 22:06
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So...uh...I haven't watched the new episode yet, but I saw this on tumblr and am kind of in shock.   I wasn't expecting that. 
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May 17, 2014 18:22
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poo poo's gonna get real
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May 17, 2014 18:32
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Its from the preview for the next arc.
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May 17, 2014 19:35
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aers posted:Its from the preview for the next arc. I'm still waiting for them to get to the first arc 
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May 17, 2014 19:39
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I'm assuming those people are from some other magic high school? Don't their arm symbols look different?
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May 17, 2014 19:43
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Oh lord, I managed to forget that part. "I fell in love with Tatsuya because he is the epitome of japanese manhood, but then I realized I wasn't good enough for the strongest, smartest, most wonderful man alive so I settled for Mr. Casually Threatens Women With Violence."
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May 17, 2014 22:53
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Serious Frolicking posted:Oh lord, I managed to forget that part. "I fell in love with Tatsuya because he is the epitome of japanese manhood, but then I realized I wasn't good enough for the strongest, smartest, most wonderful man alive so I settled for Mr. Casually Threatens Women With Violence." Uh he only did that because something something true yamato swordsmanship
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May 17, 2014 23:09
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