|
Seeing the mention of a Goldeneye speedrun just gave me flashbacks of getting the Invincibility cheat. It was something like beat the Facility in 2:05. What a great game overall, I tried to play it again fairly recently. It was able to stand up on nostalgia but I'm honestly not sure how I figured out what to do as a kid. I'm guessing I used a 56k internet. A lot of the objectives don't really make sense or they aren't explained very well.
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 14:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 21:38 |
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:i can not recall Compet-N players exploiting the RNG except perhaps in absolute edge cases (like TASing MAP01), because, like i said, so much poo poo triggers p_random calls, including poo poo that has nothing to do with the player, that it would be utterly impractical. not even that, but the possible benefit would be utterly marginal due to the nature of weapon damage output. Back when Compet-N was active, it wasn't uncommon for record beating LMPs for a level to be almost exactly the same input streams as previous record holding ones. The stuff that triggers p_random calls is exactly determined by the seeding the player's input creates, which is the entire reason demos work in the game. Many of the things people got in the habit of doing in each level turned out to create favorable "random" conditions for unrelated things later on in the levels, even though the people doing them weren't quite aware of how or why certain routes and timings made a level go by faster. Of course, years later and with source ports that explicitly allow re-records and slowed-time for truly TASing with demos, it became easier to examine them and determine that certain things were indeed useful for the PRNG setup. SolidSnakesBandana posted:Seeing the mention of a Goldeneye speedrun just gave me flashbacks of getting the Invincibility cheat. It was something like beat the Facility in 2:05. What a great game overall, I tried to play it again fairly recently. It was able to stand up on nostalgia but I'm honestly not sure how I figured out what to do as a kid. I'm guessing I used a 56k internet. A lot of the objectives don't really make sense or they aren't explained very well. I seem to recall that after you failed objectives enough times, the game over briefing would give you a message from one of the characters explaining what you were supposed to do. That may have only applied to some objectives in some levels though.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 15:57
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Back when Compet-N was active, it wasn't uncommon for record beating LMPs for a level to be almost exactly the same input streams as previous record holding ones. "Amost" exactly the same isn't the identical you've been talking about. Of course runs are going to be largely identical since the map layout and monster placement is the same and the ideal paths through them are well-understood, and if an imp zigs rather than zags in the half-second of its active lifetime the inputs required to kill it will not meaningfully change. quote:The stuff that triggers p_random calls is exactly determined by the seeding the player's input creates, which is the entire reason demos work in the game. You're suggesting that a top speedrunner will consistently plan out and then nail the precise frames for the start and end of every key press (and moment-to-moment velocity of the mouse) for the entire multi-minute run which is not humanly possible. World-class concert musicians don't do that within the tolerances this would require. haveblue fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
So I just beat Doom 1 for the first time. I'm not very good - Limbo was my first ever 100% completion and oh god I am never talking about my par times - but I ground the Spider Mastermind into dirt and had fun getting ambushed by a Cyberdemon in Warrens and all that. Where should I go from here? I could try Thy Flesh Consumed next, but apparently that's harder than Doom 2? (I'm playing on HNTR, if that matters. Maybe I should go back and retry the original game on HMP before moving on?) I figured I'd finish the classic official releases before trying some other WADs. Should I practice strafejumping or figure out how to turn off vertical aiming and actual jumping in Zandronum?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 16:43
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Back when Compet-N was active, it wasn't uncommon for record beating LMPs for a level to be almost exactly the same input streams as previous record holding ones. Controlling the RNG in any significant sense requires tic-perfect inputs from the very start of the level. As people have noted before, this is simply impossible for a human being. In reality, speedrunning depends on being able to plan a route, having the execution to pull it off, the ability to improvise and most importantly; the patience to keep grinding away for until you get a run where all the random elements go your way.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
A few years ago on Doomworld there were people talking about doing a "Tyson" run for Icon of Sin. That means using only fist/chainsaw/pistol for a map that was designed to be only beatable with the rocket launcher. Long story short, it was found out that it's possible to shoot the Romero head with the pistol if you somehow get on a ledge, and you can do that if you're propelled in the air by an arch-vile blast, so you need to make sure that an arch-vile is the first monster spawned. People claimed it was relatively easy to get that part done if you knew how to move at the start. I can't find the original thread, but there's this one: Looper posted:It doesn't have to be exactly same movement to spawn arch-vile as a third monster with the method I used. Just few key points have to go correct: the first room and how to move after teleporting to the final room. For me, it didn't matter if arch-vile spawns as a 1st, 2nd or a 3rd monster. It just happened to be 3rd. 9/10 is pretty good estimate to get it work if you do it many times.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
Arivia posted:So I just beat Doom 1 for the first time. I'm not very good - Limbo was my first ever 100% completion and oh god I am never talking about my par times - but I ground the Spider Mastermind into dirt and had fun getting ambushed by a Cyberdemon in Warrens and all that. Where should I go from here? I could try Thy Flesh Consumed next, but apparently that's harder than Doom 2? (I'm playing on HNTR, if that matters. Maybe I should go back and retry the original game on HMP before moving on?) You should definitely unbind your jump key except for the rare pwad where it's required. I'd also recommend turning off vertical aiming but a lot of people find this very awkward to get used to.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 17:23
|
|
|
Arivia posted:So I just beat Doom 1 for the first time. I'm not very good - Limbo was my first ever 100% completion and oh god I am never talking about my par times - but I ground the Spider Mastermind into dirt and had fun getting ambushed by a Cyberdemon in Warrens and all that. Where should I go from here? I could try Thy Flesh Consumed next, but apparently that's harder than Doom 2? (I'm playing on HNTR, if that matters. Maybe I should go back and retry the original game on HMP before moving on?) Turning off jump is as easy as unbinding whatever key it was set to, and is recommended because the majority of WADs are not designed with the ability for you to jump in mind, so you can occasionally sequence-break or even get yourself stuck in inescapable areas just because you can hop a foot off the ground. Few maps are harmed by vertical aiming, although there is the occasional one that takes advantage of enemies being able to aim vertically from farther away than the player can. Strafejumping is more of a Quake thing, I think? As for increasing challenge, you've got loads of options - Crank up the difficulty to HMP or even try UV, or try pistol-starting a few later maps on your preferred difficulty to see how that changes how you approach them. Doom 2 is pretty fun whether you're pistol-starting every map or keeping all your guns, so if Thy Flesh Consumed is a bit too much feel free to shelve it until you think you're ready.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 17:37
|
|
|
Korendian Leader posted:Give thy flesh consumed a go and if you aren't enjoying it, move on to doom 2. Keep in mind that the first map is probably the most difficult in the game. I'd also really recommend bumping up the difficult to hurt me plenty and if you're finding that manageable, replaying some maps on ultra violence difficulty. Do both of these things before moving on to other wads because a lot of them aren't balanced for anything other than HMP and UV. What's a PWAD? And any ideas about how to turn off vertical aiming in general? Would it be inside the actual Doom options or do I need to wade through whatever mess of a browser Zandronum starts up with? Also thanks to you and Geight for the suggestions. Looks like Thy Flesh... on HMP is my next challenge. Edit: the only reason I know strafejumping is even a thing is wondering how to get around Mt. Erebus without an actual jump key. Looks like strafejumping and rocket jumping are the two recommended ways and I am terrible at both. Arivia fucked around with this message at 17:46 on May 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 17:44
|
|
|
Arivia posted:What's a PWAD? Arivia posted:And any ideas about how to turn off vertical aiming in general? Would it be inside the actual Doom options or do I need to wade through whatever mess of a browser Zandronum starts up with?
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
I think he meant "looking up and down", not vertical autoaim (I think "Always" is closer to vanilla behavior there, not entirely sure). I think that one's a matter of setting "Mouselook" to "Off".
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Cat Mattress posted:MAP30 Tyson Wow, never thought that's possible, which is stupid because Doom engine is full of weird quirks and silly possibilities. After all, it's possible to kill cyberdemon and Romero's head while being dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUk4Cvjn5Mk
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
Arivia posted:I figured I'd finish the classic official releases before trying some other WADs. Should I practice strafejumping or figure out how to turn off vertical aiming and actual jumping in Zandronum? sv_nojump 1 and freelook 0 in the console, please.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2014 18:11
|
|
|
Arivia posted:So I just beat Doom 1 for the first time. I'm not very good - Limbo was my first ever 100% completion and oh god I am never talking about my par times - but I ground the Spider Mastermind into dirt and had fun getting ambushed by a Cyberdemon in Warrens and all that. Where should I go from here? I could try Thy Flesh Consumed next, but apparently that's harder than Doom 2? (I'm playing on HNTR, if that matters. Maybe I should go back and retry the original game on HMP before moving on?) You could go chronologically and hit Doom 2 next, then Thy Flesh Consumed. I like Thy Flesh Consumed but the first few levels are a real pain--even doing them on HMP is challenging.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 00:51
|
|
|
Arivia posted:So I just beat Doom 1 for the first time. I'm not very good - Limbo was my first ever 100% completion and oh god I am never talking about my par times - but I ground the Spider Mastermind into dirt and had fun getting ambushed by a Cyberdemon in Warrens and all that. Where should I go from here? I could try Thy Flesh Consumed next, but apparently that's harder than Doom 2? (I'm playing on HNTR, if that matters. Maybe I should go back and retry the original game on HMP before moving on?) I never considered myself good at Doom but I played through the first two episodes on Ultra-Violence and died maybe once so I'm not as bad as I thought. Standard WASD controls but no mouselook or jumping. Tape down the sprint button and just play like a bat out of hell, Doom works best when you're going as fast as you can. I still hate that Warehouse level and I have no idea how people play some of these levels with the pistol-start mod.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
ZDCMP2 was officially, finally released. There's apparently a couple of small bugs in there, but nothing that should trip up a regular playthrough. NCHud has also updated with official support for it. One of the most impressive Doom maps ever, IMHO. Give it a spin. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 01:40 on May 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:16
|
|
|
Sprint button? You know there's an always run option in the player settings right?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:19
|
|
|
hitting Caps Lock also works on most source ports
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:23
|
|
|
Elliotw2 posted:Sprint button? You know there's an always run option in the player settings right? Call it an old habit. Even in console RPGs like Final Fantasy I like holding down the sprint button than having a toggle. Even in Morrowind I never used the auto-run or cruise control.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:25
|
|
|
Getting some friends in on some Zanondrum survival co-op this week and a few of them have never played much Doom which got me thinking - what's the average difficulty most people play at? I see a lot of people posting here talking about getting annihilated on Hurt Me Plenty, but I'm only ever challenged on UV+Fast monsters. Still haven't decided what WADs we're going to play, as I'm sure that will factor into it, but I'm just trying to get an idea so it's not just me alive at the end of every single level. 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
On the topic of Doom 2 WAD recommendations, my favorite is the PSX version of Final Doom TC for PC. http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/57957-psx-doom-final-doom-tc-version-2-1-now-released/ You get the core maps from TNT and Plutonia, and the Master Levels which are well designed and not gimmicky. But the best part is the custom soundtrack that replaces the generic rock with much more atmospheric music which in its own way makes Doom more of a horror shooter than just pure action. The only (possible) downside is the lack of Archviles, Mancubi and the Spider Mastermind Boss due to the memory limitations of the original version.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
Awesome Welles posted:Still haven't decided what WADs we're going to play, as I'm sure that will factor into it, but I'm just trying to get an idea so it's not just me alive at the end of every single level. Back To Saturn X is pretty great and pretty to look at. http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34944
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
Thyrork posted:Back To Saturn X is pretty great and pretty to look at. Nice, I'll have to check that out. I thought I had a giant folder of wads buried somewhere on an external hard drive but I can't find it, it's giving me a good chance to pick out only the good ones though.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 02:07
|
|
|
While I can understand turning jumping off, I think vertical aim can be fine. Sure, it isn't needed (and in fact you can get through most challenges easily using just your keyboard) but if it works for you, I don't think much of the essential experience is lost. EDIT: And on the topic of WAD recommendations, I think Doom 64 EX is the best way to go from Doom 2. Atmospheric, really fantastic levels, and a great soundtrack. Even though it's developed by Midway, it perfectly captures the essence of what I love about iD's aesthetics. A Worrying Warlock fucked around with this message at 02:19 on May 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 02:14
|
|
|
You should turn on infinite actor height, IMO.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 02:15
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Heretic rules, Hexen drools. Just play Strife if you want an RPG-style Doom clone with backtracking.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 02:29
|
|
|
If you've never played Hexen before, and enjoyed Heretic, you owe it to yourself to at least try it with Samsara or Wrath of Chronos. I was never much of a fan of Strife for some reason. Heretic is the poo poo, though. I might have once said I almost liked it better than Doom.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 03:36
|
|
|
Strife's ideas were hampered by being stuck in a mostly-Doom engine, honestly. It could have done a lot better if it game out at the beginning of the Quake era in the Quake engine.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 03:39
|
|
|
Kazvall posted:If you've never played Hexen before, and enjoyed Heretic, you owe it to yourself to at least try it with Samsara or Wrath of Chronos. I was never much of a fan of Strife for some reason. Yeah I gave Hexen another shot with WoC the other day and had a pretty good time with it. Didn't get past the first hub but at least I enjoyed the time I spent.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 03:59
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Strife's ideas were hampered by being stuck in a mostly-Doom engine, honestly. It could have done a lot better if it game out at the beginning of the Quake era in the Quake engine. Well, we got Deus Ex. So, I'm happy.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 04:06
|
|
|
Kazvall posted:If you've never played Hexen before, and enjoyed Heretic, you owe it to yourself to at least try it with Samsara or Wrath of Chronos. I was never much of a fan of Strife for some reason. I just beat Hexen with WoC and it made the game vastly more fun and enjoyable. Still a switch hunt, but it keeps all the combat from getting stale right away.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 04:47
|
|
|
Install Windows posted:Strife's ideas were hampered by being stuck in a mostly-Doom engine, honestly. It could have done a lot better if it game out at the beginning of the Quake era in the Quake engine. I don't know, I get the feeling that working with a more basic engine gave the developers more time to concentrate on Strife's more innovative ideas. Doing all that on a new (and at the time unknown and unproven) engine would probably have bankrupted Velocity before the game was complete. Barfing Cumlord posted:I just beat Hexen with WoC and it made the game vastly more fun and enjoyable. Still a switch hunt, but it keeps all the combat from getting stale right away. I just tried this out and you're right, it's a vastly improved experience over vanilla Hexen. I may have to try to complete this game again, the last time I did a full run-through was back in 2001 or something. Convex fucked around with this message at 09:40 on May 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 08:44
|
|
|
Convex posted:I don't know, I get the feeling that working with a more basic engine gave the developers more time to concentrate on Strife's more innovative ideas. Doing all that on a new (and at the time unknown and unproven) engine would probably have bankrupted Velocity before the game was complete. I certainly don't think the same game could have been pulled off in a 3D engine. Realms of the Haunting came out the same year as Strife and it was a much better realized shooter/adventure hybrid because it wasn't hampered by a primitive engine but at the same time it was 2.5d so you didn't get the ugly, muddy graphics of Quake.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 08:58
|
|
|
Geight posted:Few maps are harmed by vertical aiming, although there is the occasional one that takes advantage of enemies being able to aim vertically from farther away than the player can. It makes Icon of Sin the most trivial map in any official WAD.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 10:24
|
|
|
al-azad posted:I certainly don't think the same game could have been pulled off in a 3D engine. Realms of the Haunting came out the same year as Strife and it was a much better realized shooter/adventure hybrid because it wasn't hampered by a primitive engine but at the same time it was 2.5d so you didn't get the ugly, muddy graphics of Quake. It was hampered by that godawful control scheme though.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 12:04
|
|
|
Even if you've played ZDCMP2 before, you might want to give that release version a spin. They've polished and tuned it quite a bit from that first beta release, especially the last few sections of the campaign. They seem to have added a decent bit of detailing to the hell maps, and the lighting looks moodier. Unless I'm remembering wrong, they've cranked up the difficulty on that cyberdemon mid-boss fight, which was kinda way too easy before. He seems to have more health than your average cyberdemon to begin with, but also seems to get cybruiser reinforcements at a couple points.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 13:12
|
|
|
GZDoom crashed about 8 seconds into ZDCMP2 for me. My wimpy laptop was already stuttering at the beginning anyways.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 13:13
|
|
|
Doom the Way id Did is the best thing I've found for introducing new players to Doom co-op. A lot of WADs seem to be heavily weighted toward being meandering switch hunts that are fun single player but confusing in co-op with multiple people pulling switches in different parts of the map or 800 monster slaughterfests that have no chance of being fun to somebody just getting into the game, with relatively few in the middle where a group of 3-4 people can shoot monsters and have a sense of exploration without the action being broken up with 40+ minute "what the poo poo did that button do" sessions.Sobatchja Morda posted:While I can understand turning jumping off, I think vertical aim can be fine. Sure, it isn't needed (and in fact you can get through most challenges easily using just your keyboard) but if it works for you, I don't think much of the essential experience is lost. For me, shutting off the crosshairs and vertical aiming was the difference between getting my rear end handed to me on HMP and doing okay on UV. It removes the temptation to waste a lot of time lining up your shots perfectly when it doesn't even do anything in the end. On the other hand, I end up being more disoriented when I go back to a modern game, on top of running around diagonally like an idiot.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 13:34
|
|
|
A FUCKIN CANARY!! posted:For me, shutting off the crosshairs and vertical aiming was the difference between getting my rear end handed to me on HMP and doing okay on UV. It removes the temptation to waste a lot of time lining up your shots perfectly when it doesn't even do anything in the end. On the other hand, I end up being more disoriented when I go back to a modern game, on top of running around diagonally like an idiot. Running around diagonally is how any properly made game should be played. 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 14:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 21:38 |
|
|
gently caress. Two weeks ago I was die-hard Unreal advocate. Now I own the entire Id catalogue from Doom through to Quake 4. Do I regret it? Not one bit. 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2014 14:16
|
|
