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Aero737 posted:For what it's worth, I worked for a school that sounded like that. Yeah I'm aware something like this could happen, but it seems stupid to just let it go because it could possibly go wrong in the future. Also I'm not interested in just being a teacher, I already do that. The reason I'm interested is that this is a possible opportunity to turn my experience into career advancement because that won't happen if I just teach.
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May 20, 2014 10:04
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VideoTapir posted:goon wechat is the digital equivalent of street making GBS threads. Goonchat: making GBS threads on the information superhighway
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May 20, 2014 10:31
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Arglebargle III posted:If I could leverage this I might end up with a position roughly analogous to my current boss, designing courses, managing teachers and being the company liaison with American institutions. We've played the liaison game for a couple years now and ohohoho, let me tell you it is not fun. Whenever we see poor caberham he always gets inundated with stories about the terrible meetings we have to attend that bring our multiple bosses together from around the damned world. At each of these meetings someone invariably forgets to bring the one folder of information that is absolutely critical to the meeting. Otherwise I say go for it. Teaching is a dead end, and if you want to stay in the field, you need to look for progression anywhere you can. I'd downplay the extent of your connections, though. You don't want to be used as a chip in future dealings between the Chinese company and the American school(s).
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May 20, 2014 12:51
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So I told the tour company guy I wanted 500 a day and he said they'd give me 30 dollars an hour, which if accurate would be around 120 dollars a day on the days they have golf class and I'm guessing more than 240 on days when we'd go to Disney and stuff. Should I go for like 35-40 and be like "dude I know these kids are loaded?"
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May 20, 2014 13:36
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blinkyzero posted:Teaching is a dead end And people ask why there aren't enough good teachers.  When you talk to American parents who only want to go on about the terrible teachers and their terrible unions it's just amazing how completely they don't get it.
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May 20, 2014 13:36
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Cuatal posted:So I told the tour company guy I wanted 500 a day and he said they'd give me 30 dollars an hour, which if accurate would be around 120 dollars a day on the days they have golf class and I'm guessing more than 240 on days when we'd go to Disney and stuff. So you get to follow his family around and do what they want when they want but you're hourly? That's a bum deal. You're going to structure your life around their needs for 12 days but only get paid for 25 hours of work.
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May 20, 2014 13:43
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Cuatal posted:So I told the tour company guy I wanted 500 a day and he said they'd give me 30 dollars an hour, which if accurate would be around 120 dollars a day on the days they have golf class and I'm guessing more than 240 on days when we'd go to Disney and stuff. That is poo poo, don't do it. You're not going to have fun, it's going to be a giant loving hassle, and they will probably try to say you worked less hours than you did because, "Oh, that lovely THING was fun, not work." quote:I have a coworker and friend who has a friend who wants to start an education company not unlike the one I work for now. I would do it. The university I work for has a CENTER in a Chinese city near all the universities. This (Chinese) dude is our liaison for pretty much any university in China, and for the China Scholarship Council as well. He's nice, but I'm guessing he does like 2-3 hours of work a day and probably does the four hour "playing computer" and taking naps stuff everyone always talks about here. When I send him emails asking for quick fixes or what not, he handles it pretty easily. When I email him larger picture stuff or serious concerns, he just never responds. I've heard he does this with everyone. For instance he recently sent us a student that had already graduated on a program for people who will do a year here, then graduate in China. I asked the girl, "So...what if you fail all your classes here then?" "Oh, it won't matter, you see, because I graduated already." No one knew she had already graduated because it's this above guy's job to make sure the students submitted to us meet all the requirements such as not having already graduated. If our contact could be a western person who spoke Chinese (or I guess a super competent Chinese person,) it would be way better. The only lovely thing is that like, at least for us, if you were sending students here, you would never talk to anyone at our university; you would deal with the above guy that I mentioned exclusively! angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 13:49 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 13:47
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Yeah but the thing is, I'm not being offered a job at this stage. It's more that I need to actively make the case that this job should exist and that I should do it. You know Chinese bosses, they really hope they can wave their hands and someone will "just do" a professional relationship with Western schools, curriculum planning, interviewing teachers etc. I haven't even met the guy yet but I was wondering for any advice about, like guestbob said, carving out a position in a new thing. Also your "he does a bad job but it's easy" story is not making me want to career develop in that direction. 
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May 20, 2014 13:59
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Well the point I was trying to make was that, "He does a bad job and it negatively affects things." I was trying to give you an example of how someone in that position doing a good job would create better results. Also like, when I worked in Chongqing we had a very competent Chinese lady as our Waijiao herder, and I think that made a huge loving difference toward the quality of foreign teachers. Just argue that the job should exist primarily because you will be able to hire the best teachers and create curricula that create results in two ways, 1) Having students gain functional English ability and 2) Keep quality foreign teachers happy. The relationships with foreign universities is probably more of a side thing, but you WOULD be able to better assess which students would succeed at foreign universities. Make a strong case for what you think really matters, and if they don't agree or think they can hand wave it, then you probably don't want to work for those people anyway.
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May 20, 2014 14:07
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That sounds like good advice. 
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May 20, 2014 14:12
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I think the recruiter who put me in touch with my old boss just tried to send me a virus
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May 20, 2014 14:42
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I don't know how hard it is to set up a business in China so it might not be doable, but if you're going to be doing all the work and have all the connections wouldn't you be better off setting something up yourself?
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May 20, 2014 14:49
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I know it might suck but I'm still considering it just to meet the parents and get some 关系, one of them might offer me a good job or something. I'd probably do it for like 35-40 an hour, and even 30 is tempting since it's still a lot more than I'm making now, even though as someone who has done this kind of stuff in China I know it will probably blow rear end.
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May 20, 2014 14:50
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It's not really 35-40 an hour if you only have 4 billable hours per day. Your whole life during those 12 days will revolve around this. e: Pro tip try to get a full time job that doesn't pay "a lot [less] than [$15 per hour]"
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May 20, 2014 14:53
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Jimmy Little Balls posted:I don't know how hard it is to set up a business in China so it might not be doable, but if you're going to be doing all the work and have all the connections wouldn't you be better off setting something up yourself? I have zero connections in Chinese education, and education companies have a lot of work to do that isn't directly related to curriculum development or day to day teaching. The part of a school that interacts with students on a day to day basis is the largest part but far from the only part, and the type of company I work for isn't actually a school which brings its own pros and cons. The fact that I'm actually able to enumerate the different departments required to make a school function and what they (should) do is one of the reasons I think I'm qualified to move upwards at all. But I don't really know how to make all those other parts do what they're supposed to; I only have real experience with curriculum and teaching. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 15:03 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 14:59
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Arglebargle III posted:And people ask why there aren't enough good teachers. They then tell you one of these two things: (1)  You should only go into teaching if you love it!(2) Those who can, do! Those who can't, teach!For (1), I ask them if they love their jobs as carpenters or plumbers or office workers or personal stroker of handjobs to the WWE wrestler Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Invariably they look at me like I'm crazy and say "Hah! No! Of course not!" For (2), "go gently caress yourself" generally suffices.
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May 20, 2014 15:56
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Cuatal posted:I know it might suck but I'm still considering it just to meet the parents and get some 关系, one of them might offer me a good job or something. You might as well just do it for 11 RMB an hour. Would you be there if they weren't there? No? Are you able to do things you want to do while they're having golf lessons, or should you be somewhat nearby? Are you spending your own money on lodging and food? You're better off to negotiate an overall price for the 12 days because if you take a low hourly wage they'll gently caress you and you'll work 16 hours a day. If you have a high hourly wage they'll gently caress you and say "oh, those weren't billable hours because we were at DISNEYWORLD and IT'S FUN!" and then you'll get 2 hours of pay for a full day with snot nosed brats. Like Meramjerk said, your whole life will revolve around this for those 12 days. That or I'd wish them good luck hiring another knowledgeable American from America for the price they want and the hours they want 'em. SB35 fucked around with this message at 18:33 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 18:31
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You are worth lots of money. If you don't take lots of money, I will lose all respect for you and punch you.
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May 20, 2014 19:08
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Is China Eastern Air the best option into Chengdu or are there others?
Eifert Posting fucked around with this message at 04:19 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 04:16
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"Connections" are not going to get you what you want. You'll over commit and China will do what is does and you'll be left holding a making GBS threads baby which both parties don't want to touch with a barge pole ("too expensive ah" vs. "these students can't speak English" - rinse and repeat ad naseum). I would never use personal connections in a Chinese context because it's just too risky: and I have a pretty big trump card to play (uncle founded a university). Making things happen isn't too hard though. Nobody from godwatching countries knows what the gently caress they are doing in China and if you have your ducks in order street making GBS threads side then you'll have potential partners lining up out of the door. And in my experience, getting things lined up inside China is the hard part. We had a delegation from a partner over a wee while ago and their academic lead learned more about China from me in thirty minutes than he had acquired through two years of occasional visits and negotiations (with his own translator too). There's companies out there who act as agents for full cost international programs and take a 12% cut off the top of the fees being charged. That's before they are divided between institutions. You don't even need to "be" anything - you can just provide a range of services to both parties. This might sound crazy, but you'd do a drat sight better job of it than the Chinese agents I have had contact with. The only need for this is because everyone is really crap at what they do and there's enough money sloshing round for things to keep working despite this. My advice from experience is that if you go in with a clear plan of action and tell people how much money it will make then they will do what you tell them. That's how it worked when I did educational consultancy gigs in London anyways. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 05:27 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 05:23
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Cuatal posted:I know it might suck but I'm still considering it just to meet the parents and get some 关系, one of them might offer me a good job or something. Is this the same guy who never gave you a legal work visa and made you fly out of country visa runs all the time on your own pocket?
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May 21, 2014 05:45
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GuestBob posted:I would never use personal connections in a Chinese context because it's just too risky: and I have a pretty big trump card to play (uncle founded a university). Yeah, this is pretty much what I meant about avoiding become a chip. You'll get used up and tossed away if you're not careful. At one point last year things got rocky between the two ends of our partnership and we, as usual, were sent in to do damage control. The hopes from the Chinese side were high that we could lubricate the issue into oblivion through liberal application of our strong connections at the U.S. college. That might have worked, but it also probably would have burned those connections down and replaced them with strengthened Chinese connections. As much as I like our boss here and the university and our colleagues and whatnot, I wouldn't trade our American connections (many of whom are actual friends) for this lot. Ever.
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May 21, 2014 06:09
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GuestBob posted:"Connections" are not going to get you what you want. Yeah I was hoping to advertise A and deliver B, if that makes sense. And I'm not really even advertising A, I've been approached because of it and have already said that really they are going to need B. But you know how it is, "yeah, understanding the industry and ability to communicate effectively, whatever, you have connections right?" 
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May 21, 2014 07:02
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Cuatal posted:I know it might suck but I'm still considering it just to meet the parents and get some 关系, one of them might offer me a good job or something. Sounds like you're using FPR logic: Do a lovely job for low pay and MAYBE you'll get some connections out of it. You're getting shafted by getting an hourly rate for that kind of work. Listen to the other goons and get a package deal or be done with this.
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May 21, 2014 10:06
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What the hell would Golf English even properly be, anyway? I mean couldn't you pretty much cover that with 2 pages of vocabulary? How much of the trip do you get to plan? I presume they're wanting to go to some fancy golf course, but you should take them to the shittiest public course you can, too; and make sure to do miniature golf as well, preferably with underage drinking.
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May 21, 2014 10:22
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VideoTapir posted:What the hell would Golf English even properly be, anyway? I mean couldn't you pretty much cover that with 2 pages of vocabulary? Hah its teaching his kids how to be supercilious not just golf etiquette and par this and birdie that.
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May 21, 2014 11:37
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"Tipping caddies runs counter to my culture, you grasping cultural imperialist. Good day."
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May 21, 2014 11:51
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making GBS threads is not permissible on the green, in the sandtraps, or in the hole.
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May 21, 2014 11:53
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Grand Fromage posted:making GBS threads is not permissible on the green, in the sandtraps, or in the hole. Well now that's just illogical, where else can one poo poo??
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May 21, 2014 12:04
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Arakan posted:Well now that's just illogical, where else can one poo poo?? In the thread
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May 21, 2014 12:06
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May 21, 2014 12:15
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I can't believe I'm going to the mainland. Y'all always have me convinced that the mainland is a wasteland straight out of one of Lovecraft's long lost racially motivated harangues.
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May 21, 2014 12:29
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Of all the places I've visited, China was my favorite. Both mainland and Hong Kong. I just like cracking wise.
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May 21, 2014 12:30
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Ceciltron posted:I think the recruiter who put me in touch with my old boss just tried to send me a virus Thank goodness you jumped outta that hellhole 
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May 21, 2014 13:15
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Hello China goons, can't believe I'll be a China goon too pretty soon. I'll be in Shenzhen by this Friday. Is there any other China goon based in Shenzhen?
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May 21, 2014 15:35
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So it's my friends birthday and she wants to go to Chongqing this weekend for a change of scene. What's worth doing there for a couple of days and where's the best place to go drinking?
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May 21, 2014 15:46
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pedro0930 posted:Hello China goons, can't believe I'll be a China goon too pretty soon. I'll be in Shenzhen by this Friday. Is there any other China goon based in Shenzhen? Yes, there's me. I'm one of the best goons in Shenzhen, in my opinion.
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May 21, 2014 15:54
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Jimmy Little Balls posted:What's worth doing there for a couple of days ... go drinking? Sounds like you've answered your own question, Steve.
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May 21, 2014 15:56
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I haven't been there for years, but I liked going here to drink: http://www.dianping.com/shop/6292666 Who knows if it's even open anymore though. poo poo has probably changed so much in 3-4 years that most stuff I'd say would be irrelevant. Most Laowai go to Shapingba to drink and party etc. It's just a densely populated district with a lot of higher-scale places to shop and do poo poo. Jiefangbei is the heart of the city, and there used to be a cool old-style part of the city right in the heart of it, but I think they demolished the poo poo out of it already. This is right on the river and there is an opera house there that I never went to anything in, but it's supposed to be good. You can also take ferries out on the river to do various things. Ciqikou is more "old city" type area, but it's super touristy and usually very crowded. There used to be another cool bar there that had live music in Ciqikou which wasn't lovely, but I don't know if that's there anymore or what the name was. Jiangbei was, at the time, the most ~WENMING~ area of Chongqing  I guess there is a church in Jiangbei??? It felt really clean and like a bastion of the super rich to me. Everyone I saw there was rich, and there was certainly no making GBS threads on the streets. It also had like no personality though; I think it was recently built up from nothing and they somehow kept all the poor people out of there. I lived in Yangjiaping, which had I not lived there would unlikely have been much of a destination at the time. One thing I can say for Yangjiaping of 2008-2009 was that it had a nice mix of old Chongqing and new Chongqing. You could duck into most any alley and walk away from the main street to see what the city must have looked like years ago. There are shitloads of other districts in Chongqing, and the further you go from the main ones the more undeveloped China you'll see. It is rapidly developing and a lot of people are still getting left behind. It looks like they've added THREE monorail lines since I lived there...so I think you can get to most major areas using the monorail. It was very convenient and nice to use when I lived there, even though there was only one line at the time. I don't really know any good touristy stuff to do cause I generally hate doing that kind of thing. I think your best bet is to find the bars where chill Chinese people hang out and get them to take you to other cool places. It's like most any Chinese city in that if you don't know people who live there you'll be hard pressed to find anything that really makes it unique or distinguishes it from any other massive city.
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May 21, 2014 16:03
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Reading about that on Wiki I see "Dual Party-Government" mentioned. Googling that brings up a Wiki on Shanghai, but not a specific explanation. What do they mean by that?
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May 21, 2014 16:42
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