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SickZip posted:In terms of race being socially defined, Zimmerman is clearly hispanic and not white hispanic either. Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. That's why both David Ortiz and Ted Cruz can be considered hispanic(the latter probably wouldn't want to be, but that's another issue). That's why you'll see polling breakdowns with non-white hispanics as one of the demographics. White hispanic is a perfectly accurate phrase and not an uncommon one either.
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May 21, 2014 03:10
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At that point the narrative changed to "Well this can't be racially motivated since Zimmerman is hispanic  "
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May 21, 2014 03:12
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SedanChair posted:If Fox is the standard, we're boned. But I don't remember a lot of media harping on Zimmerman's whiteness, that was mostly obsessive projection by racists. Media just aired the juxtaposed pictures of Zimmerman and Martin over and over. White racists got so used to assuming from his name and photo that Zimmerman was fully Anglo that they were taken aback when that was shown not to be the case. If the freeper thread is any indication, white racists were all over the hispanic thing as more proof that white-on-black killing is an invention of the lamestream media.
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May 21, 2014 03:12
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Dahbadu posted:In practical terms, the nature of evil is an unjustified act or philosophy that others are opposed to, where the act or philosophy causes significant harm. It is a result of a lack of empathy in the acting individual or group, usually combined with or enabled by self-righteousness and/or self-justification. I don't like the first part. "Unjustified" is really drat subjective and I don't see the point of "that others are opposed to" - if something is evil it's evil whether or not it's got unanimous support and basically everything in American politics has "others [that] are opposed to [it]". The second sentence is good however. Maybe something like "In practical terms, evil means trying to benefit while inflicting worse hardship on others." or something, I don't know. I would actually try to avoid calling poo poo "evil" as much as possible, since it forces folks to pick sides. You're not going to change many minds that way. Also you should consider making the FB integration for comments optional - most of the folks here on SA are anonymous or pseudonymous and might not want to use our Facebook accounts coming from the thread. I mean my identity's not exactly hard to deduce from my posts in here DD, but others might feel more strongly about their privacy.
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May 21, 2014 03:39
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The Insect Court posted:Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. That's why both David Ortiz and Ted Cruz can be considered hispanic(the latter probably wouldn't want to be, but that's another issue). That's why you'll see polling breakdowns with non-white hispanics as one of the demographics. White hispanic is a perfectly accurate phrase and not an uncommon one either.
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May 21, 2014 04:49
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Holy poo poo thread. (race is an outdated concept that has no place in modern society, there is only one race, the human race. there are ethnicities and nationalities tho)
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May 21, 2014 04:51
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What ethnicity are the black descendents of slaves in the Americas?
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May 21, 2014 05:10
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There has got to be an academic name for black culture and I bet its hilarious
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May 21, 2014 05:12
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:What ethnicity are the black descendents of slaves in the Americas? Anyway, here in Hawaii race is a particularly useless concept. Ethnicity is crazy useful though.
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May 21, 2014 05:13
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Did someone really say Negroid itt?
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May 21, 2014 05:17
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Jackson Taus posted:I don't like the first part. "Unjustified" is really drat subjective I think you'll find that "unjustified" is one of the least subjective words around. Unjustified, as in "not shown to be right or reasonable" If an action is unjustifiable, it means that no sound argument can be made for that position or course of action. This, in theory, is an objective way to evaluate things. Of course in real life it is difficult to prove this sort of thing, but 1(certainly not always impossible and 2(sometimes quite easy. In almost every situation, it is easier to prove something unjustifiable (or inefficient, another favorite of mine) than to prove it evil or bad (which are only better than subjective if you get the person you're talking to to agree that evil=something else).
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May 21, 2014 05:19
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Stultus Maximus posted:If the freeper thread is any indication, white racists were all over the hispanic thing as more proof that white-on-black killing is an invention of the lamestream media. Whatever it is that makes you not white, when you gently caress up and get caught being bad you can bet that racists will try to find it.
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May 21, 2014 05:21
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Slow week. We've had STEMINEM, Gun Chat and now we're on to race. Anyone want to troll about how to woo Hillary using PUA tactics?
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May 21, 2014 05:21
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As fun as bashing on Amergin is, and as ignorant as his opinion on that NPR show is, I'm going to have to side with the folks saying that George Zimmerman is about as white as Frida Kahlo. So, uh, not white. He is not "visibly Caucasian" as one poster put it. He is, rather, visibly brown-skinned. Or we could go telling fans of Frida Kahlo to stop calling her a PoC because she's too pale and you might describe her as white hispanic to a 911 dispatcher.
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May 21, 2014 05:35
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ReindeerF posted:Slow week. We've had STEMINEM, Gun Chat and now we're on to race. Anyone want to troll about how to woo Hillary using PUA tactics? Reince Priebus and Karl Rove stepped up their negs the past week, which will inevitably lead to Linday Graham trying out a new DHV spike routine on Fox News Sunday.
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May 21, 2014 05:52
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I expected more discussion of the results from the primary elections  It looks like Mitch McConnell won!
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May 21, 2014 06:36
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comes along bort posted:Reince Priebus and Karl Rove stepped up their negs the past week, which will inevitably lead to Linday Graham trying out a new DHV spike routine on Fox News Sunday. You know, like "you're pretty fast-witted for a brain-damaged person" or "you look good for a 66-year old."
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May 21, 2014 06:47
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Amergin posted:As black. OK Amergin let me explain this to you. Hispanic and Latino are words that describe an ethnicity (a shared culture, country of origin, or common ancestry). Black and White are words which describe a race (shared physical characteristics assumed to mean a common ancestry). (This is why surveys first ask you if you're Hispanic before they move on to race!) Thus there are White Latinos:  And Black Latinos:  Both of these actors are Latino, specifically children of Cuban-American immigrants. Yet the way their race is perceived in America is drastically different because of how the public sees their physical features. Both struggle to get Latino roles because of the same mistake you're making, that a Latino person cannot be White or Black. More importantly, you are completely ignoring the fact that anti-black antipathy is often displayed not only by white people, but also by non-black people of color, including Hispanics, Latinos, and Asians among others. Race in America is arguably a hierarchy with blacks on the bottom, whites at the top (yes, including White Latinos as well as Irish- and Italian-Americans!), and other races in between. Therefore even a Latino person like George Zimmerman, even if he were not "white," could still stalk and murder Trayvon Martin based off of negative stereotypes of Black people as criminals.
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May 21, 2014 06:50
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FourLeaf posted:More importantly, you are completely ignoring the fact that anti-black antipathy is often displayed not only by white people, but also by non-black people of color, including Hispanics, Latinos, and Asians among others. Race in America is arguably a hierarchy with blacks on the bottom, whites at the top (yes, including White Latinos as well as Irish- and Italian-Americans!), and other races in between. Therefore even a Latino person like George Zimmerman, even if he were not "white," could still stalk and murder Trayvon Martin based off of negative stereotypes of Black people as criminals. What you just posted had nothing to do with what the guy originally said. All he said was that he disliked the oversimplification of the dude as "white." You're reading way too much into his posts and ascribing opinions to him that he hasn't come close to voicing.
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May 21, 2014 07:00
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gently caress it, pretending is hard: House Republicans proposed a $20.9 billion budget for agriculture and food safety programs Monday, an 82-page bill that challenges the White House on nutrition rules and denies major new funding sought by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission to better regulate the rich derivatives market. ... And in a surprising twist, the bill language specifies that only rural areas are to benefit in the future from funding requested by the administration this year to continue a modest summer demonstration program to help children from low-income households — both urban and rural — during those months when school meals are not available. Since 2010, the program has operated from an initial appropriation of $85 million, and the goal has been to test alternative approaches to distribute aid when schools are not in session. The White House asked for an additional $30 million to continue the effort, but the House bill provides $27 million for what’s described as an entirely new pilot program focused on rural areas only.
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May 21, 2014 07:06
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I thought the whole Louis CK bit was just an admin getting a kick out of making the forums filter "George Zimmerman" to "Louis CK", but drat. That's really interesting.
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May 21, 2014 07:06
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Ohthehugemanatee posted:What you just posted had nothing to do with what the guy originally said. All he said was that he disliked the oversimplification of the dude as "white." You're reading way too much into his posts and ascribing opinions to him that he hasn't come close to voicing. No I'm not? He's saying that TMM was "racebaiting" when it had a guest on that said the Martin and Davis cases were fueled by racism against black people. Like it's ridiculous that a Latino person could hold racist preconceptions about a black person. Amergin posted:I listen to TMM on a daily basis (it lines up with my hour commute home) and I have to say that while I enjoyed 90% of the content, sometimes I felt it tried too hard to focus on race in issues with other variables involved. FourLeaf fucked around with this message at 07:33 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 07:10
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Zimmerman got pulled over in Texas for speeding, with a gun in his glove box, and he's not dead. That means he's white enough.
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May 21, 2014 07:16
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Maybe the truth is really in the middHUUAAARRRGHH Anyway, has anyone made a 'slow and steady wins the race' joke about Mitch McConnell winning his primary yet? Because if not, let me be the first.
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May 21, 2014 09:04
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FourLeaf posted:More importantly, you are completely ignoring the fact that anti-black antipathy is often displayed not only by white people, but also by non-black people of color, including Hispanics, Latinos, and Asians among others. Race in America is arguably a hierarchy with blacks on the bottom, whites at the top (yes, including White Latinos as well as Irish- and Italian-Americans!), and other races in between. Therefore even a Latino person like George Zimmerman, even if he were not "white," could still stalk and murder Trayvon Martin based off of negative stereotypes of Black people as criminals.
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May 21, 2014 09:11
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Did John Oliver's Mitch McConnell campaign ad make the rounds here? Because that was hysterical.
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May 21, 2014 09:12
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Fried Chicken posted:Equal protection is actually a really complicated and nuanced section of law because it often runs up to "whose rights are being protected here", so yeah, it really is hard to grasp. Even without all the different levels of scrutiny and classes, I think most people are capable of understanding the generalized concept. I tried explaining it (in the most very basic way) which someone still failed to grasp. I used the example, that "it's not murder if the victim is Asian" would be an equal protections issue. His rebuttal was some incoherent nonsense about 10 year olds being able to drink and drive because adults can. Every time I go on facebook I lose a little more faith in humanity.
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May 21, 2014 09:21
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Even if Zimmerman was hispanic, that didn't stop all the racists from flocking in and saying he was an "honorary white person", much in a way the Nazis/South-African Apartheid coddled the Japanese.
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May 21, 2014 09:31
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Job Truniht posted:Even if Zimmerman was hispanic, that didn't stop all the racists from flocking in and saying he was an "honorary white person", much in a way the Nazis/South-African Apartheid coddled the Japanese. One of the Good Ones.
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May 21, 2014 09:58
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The Insect Court posted:Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. That's why both David Ortiz and Ted Cruz can be considered hispanic(the latter probably wouldn't want to be, but that's another issue). That's why you'll see polling breakdowns with non-white hispanics as one of the demographics. White hispanic is a perfectly accurate phrase and not an uncommon one either. Check out these google trends: http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22white%20hispanic%22 http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22white%20hispanic%22&gprop=news&cmpt=q http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22george%20zimmerman%22 Notice how interest in the term shoots up at exactly the same time as the name George Zimmerman. Notice that the graph of news mentioning "white hispanics" is the flattest thing in existence apart from the Zimmerman spikes. White hispanic is a term with normally extremely little interest and that mainly functions as a census demographic term with a history there that goes back to 1970. From an article about the fact that the New York Times had essentially never used the term before the Zimmerman case when they suddenly discovered it: "Use of the term in the New York Times archives is rare. Phil Corbett, the paper’s standards editor, concedes that “white Hispanic” and ”white and Hispanic” are “not very commonly used.”" If you don't believe me about the identification as white before they walked back to white hispanic. First article from miami herald: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2698133/tragic-teen-shooting-raises-old.html First article from thinkprogress: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-should-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/ (the note was added later) First article from huffpost: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html He's identified solely as white in all of them. Here's an article about his identification as hispanic prior to two of them: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story
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May 21, 2014 10:01
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SickZip posted:Check out these google trends: What's your point? Of course the phrase "white hispanic" shoots up in Google trends around the time of the Zimmerman shooting, what's your point? Demographers and sociologists have long distinguished between hispanic(an ethnic identity) and white(a racial identity). Half of hispanic Americans self-identified as white in the last census. Were they all in on the plot to deceive people into thinking Zimmerman was white?
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May 21, 2014 10:47
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Wolfsheim posted:
I enjoy this 
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May 21, 2014 11:13
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RedQueen posted:gently caress it, pretending is hard: Huh? That's crazy. But I guess it being certain to fail lets these guys buff up their appearance as good industry suckups without any real consequences.
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May 21, 2014 11:14
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:What ethnicity are the black descendents of slaves in the Americas? African-American?
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May 21, 2014 12:02
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:African-American? African-American can mean any American of african descent. The term "Black" in America means "descendant of african slaves." At least, that's what they taught us the official definition was when I took diversity classes for the education program at school. 
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May 21, 2014 12:08
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RedQueen posted:gently caress it, pretending is hard: Jesus gently caress. But hey, the call to make the food program only go to rural areas instead of urban areas totally isn't about race because nothing is ever about race poo poo like this is what you get when you internalize that "real america vs the cities" poo poo
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May 21, 2014 12:08
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And I'm sure all the rural majority black areas in the south will be at the front of the line to receive funding from the new program.
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May 21, 2014 12:44
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BUSH 2112 posted:African-American can mean any American of african descent. The term "Black" in America means "descendant of african slaves." At least, that's what they taught us the official definition was when I took diversity classes for the education program at school. Which is weird because it should be the other way around. A naturalized Kenyan is ethnically identical to a Kenyan on a green card.
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May 21, 2014 12:50
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Which is weird because it should be the other way around. A naturalized Kenyan is ethnically identical to a Kenyan on a green card. What does Obama have to do with this? 
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May 21, 2014 12:52
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So I'm not sure this is the right thread for this, but I got a mailer from my representative (Katherine Clark) about net neutrality, where she claims that she has "cosponsored the Open Internet Preservation Act". But when I looked it up on congress.gov (the new THOMAS), she isn't listed as a cosponsor. Is there any other way I can confirm that she is lying about her congressional record, in case congress.gov is incorrect? Has she broken any laws by doing this, or is that legal?
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May 21, 2014 13:32
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