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FourLeaf posted:No I'm not? He's saying that TMM was "racebaiting" when it had a guest on that said the Martin and Davis cases were fueled by racism against black people. Like it's ridiculous that a Latino person could hold racist preconceptions about a black person. I said they oversimplified ethnicity and overplayed the whiteness of Zimmerman to create a narrative. The guest didn't say it was racism, he said white people as a whole are afraid because we have a black president. Of course I think Latinos can be racist, anyone can be racist. But when you describe Zimmerman as "white" but Obama as "black" I think you're using a double standard to fuel a narrative, and I expect better from NPR. Edit: Also to all the "it's ETHNICITY not RACE GAWD" posts, I'm pretty sure you understood my post but decided to argue against my semantics rather than my point. If you guys are so anal now I can't wait until I discuss my support for eugenics with y'all. Amergin fucked around with this message at 16:04 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 13:33
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Dahbadu posted:So earlier in thread I talked about making a website based off this thread, asking for the goons' blessing. I got it up and running over the last 2 days. Here's the link: http://www.everythingisscrewed.com/ I am genuinely struggling to tell if this is parody or not.
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May 21, 2014 13:40
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BUSH 2112 posted:African-American can mean any American of african descent. The term "Black" in America means "descendant of african slaves." At least, that's what they taught us the official definition was when I took diversity classes for the education program at school. So Obama's not black. Sounds like your classes sucked poo poo.
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May 21, 2014 13:44
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People call Obama black because, even though he is biracial, he prefers to be considered black. Also, many Americans are conditioned to the One Drop Rule. People call Zimmerman white because he's white. Job Truniht posted:Even if Zimmerman was hispanic, that didn't stop all the racists from flocking in and saying he was an "honorary white person", much in a way the Nazis/South-African Apartheid coddled the Japanese. Nazi's had no problem with Hispanics. They were Franco's largest benefactor and the Nazi's considered them non Aryan White Europeans. The opinion was largely aided by the complete lack of Hispanic peoples intermingling with Germans. They were given the same pass/distinction that the Japanese and Italians received. Zuhzuhzombie!! fucked around with this message at 15:03 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 14:20
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Zimmerman is the perfect shooter as far as white racists are concerned, because the open racists can celebrate over the gunning down of an urban feral and fantasize about doing the same, while the closet racists can write it off as the inferior dark people killing each other as always and whine that the REAL racists are race-baiting against white people by suggesting that the assumption that every black man is a probable criminal is in any way a problem with white culture.
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May 21, 2014 15:55
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Looks like the next Benghazi will be this VA thing. Might be tough to bring Hillary into this one though.
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May 21, 2014 16:29
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Common Core works!
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May 21, 2014 16:52
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Common Core works!
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May 21, 2014 17:02
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Samurai Sanders posted:Actually this reminds me, I haven't heard any discussions of the strengths and weaknesses of Common Core in anything other than mathematics. I have no idea how it changes history and English classes and so on. Other than making students gay, I guess. Math's easy to knee jerk because most of these assfucks hate math?
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May 21, 2014 17:04
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Paul Ryan likes math, hes a numbers guy! He's just incredibly averse to showing his work.
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May 21, 2014 17:05
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Paul Ryan likes math, hes a numbers guy! He's just incredibly averse to showing his work. Real math doesn't have numbers. 
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May 21, 2014 17:06
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baw posted:Looks like the next Benghazi will be this VA thing. They'll still be able to use it as she was a "part of the administration" (even though the issue came up after her departure) under which the VA's problems came to light (and therefore is part of the cause of those likely long-standing problems, purely by association). When you're running for president you can't, while in a debate, pass the responsibility to someone else even if it legitimately wasn't your area. You're a leader, so you're supposed to lead.
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May 21, 2014 17:09
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baw posted:Looks like the next Benghazi will be this VA thing. It won't stick because the root issue is "Congress [Republicans] won't give them enough money to hire people".
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May 21, 2014 17:11
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Amergin posted:When you're running for president you can't, while in a debate, pass the responsibility to someone else even if it legitimately wasn't your area. You're a leader, so you're supposed to lead. Are you really claiming there is any legitimacy to the complaint that Hillary didn't treat her post of Secretary of State like it made her Empress? "Why didn't you unconstitutionally usurp the powers of other Cabinet officers, Hillary!" <  >
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:25 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 17:15
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Amergin posted:They'll still be able to use it as she was a "part of the administration" (even though the issue came up after her departure) under which the VA's problems came to light (and therefore is part of the cause of those likely long-standing problems, purely by association). e: All Hilary would need to say is "that would be unconstitutional" and it would shut people the gently caress up since they loves them some constitutions!
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May 21, 2014 17:20
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:People call Obama black because, even though he is biracial, he prefers to be considered black. Also, many Americans are conditioned to the One Drop Rule. You missed my point. He is not the descendant of slaves, therefore according to the classes BUSH 2112 took he isn't black.
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May 21, 2014 17:20
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Amergin posted:They'll still be able to use it as she was a "part of the administration" (even though the issue came up after her departure) under which the VA's problems came to light (and therefore is part of the cause of those likely long-standing problems, purely by association). She just has to look forward though like "When I'm president that won't happen"
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May 21, 2014 17:21
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DemeaninDemon posted:Math's easy to knee jerk because most of these assfucks hate math? Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 17:50 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 17:21
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Amergin posted:I said they oversimplified ethnicity and overplayed the whiteness of Zimmerman to create a narrative. quote:Of course I think Latinos can be racist, anyone can be racist. But when you describe Zimmerman as "white" but Obama as "black" I think you're using a double standard to fuel a narrative, and I expect better from NPR. quote:Edit: Also to all the "it's ETHNICITY not RACE GAWD" posts, I'm pretty sure you understood my post but decided to argue against my semantics rather than my point. 
Bhaal fucked around with this message at 17:56 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 17:48
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baw posted:Looks like the next Benghazi will be this VA thing. This will be much more legitimate than Benghazi because it's mostly based in reality. The VA has been poorly functioning for a while now. It's just a matter of who the public will blame.
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May 21, 2014 17:59
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computer parts posted:It won't stick because the root issue is "Congress [Republicans] won't give them enough money to hire people". Won't stop them from trying. Attack your opponent on your own weaknesses and all. e: Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:People call Zimmerman white because he's white. Picture him in a country club. Is he a member or does he work there? That will be my only contribution to this dumb derail. ReidRansom fucked around with this message at 18:07 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 18:01
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I think they are playing with fire there. The Benghazi scandal is fiction but with the VAs there's a real problem. Any real investigation won't just be a ridiculous circle jerk about finding fake facts but will reveal that actual people are to blame and I would guess the party that loves cutting government departments might have a hand in it. Much better to fan fake flames and get your base angry over something that isn't real and thus ultimately toothless.
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May 21, 2014 18:02
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Samurai Sanders posted:Actually this reminds me, I haven't heard any discussions of the strengths and weaknesses of Common Core in anything other than mathematics. I have no idea how it changes history and English classes and so on. Other than making students gay, I guess.
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May 21, 2014 18:07
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USPol June: Not as bad as AusPol, but we're trying! On another note, Oklahoma's "Save Our State Amendment" is not only struck down (back in 2012), but Oklahoma is now forced to pay $300k to the Council on American-Islamic Relations to cover legal fees and whatnot. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/21/oklahoma-to-pay-300000-in-legal-fees-after-preemptively-banning-sharia-law/ The Article posted:Now, U.S. District Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange has ordered the state to pay the legal fees Muneer Awad accrued when he challenged the amendment’s constitutionality. One of his attorneys, Michael Salem, told The Oklahoman that the most absurd element of the case is that there was never any proof that Sharia law was taking root in Oklahoma. The dangers of being proactive instead of reactive in a legislative session.
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May 21, 2014 18:19
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The Insect Court posted:What's your point? Of course the phrase "white hispanic" shoots up in Google trends around the time of the Zimmerman shooting, what's your point? Demographers and sociologists have long distinguished between hispanic(an ethnic identity) and white(a racial identity). Half of hispanic Americans self-identified as white in the last census. Were they all in on the plot to deceive people into thinking Zimmerman was white? The point is that the term basically didn't exist in the us news media until the Zimmerman case. The google trends graph shows years and years of zero loving interest in the term. Do you not get that its odd that a specialty term was dredged from the census for this particular case and theres essentially no reason for it to have occurred besides creating the most dramatic race angle they could manage? Also, I didn't want to get into this but US demographers are borderline retarded and hispanic is the worst and most meaningless "ethnic" descriptor imaginable. Its a grouping that includes Mexicans (spanish with native influences), Quechua (pretty much still native), Brazilians (don't even speak spanish), and Argentinians (mostly just transferred southern europe). The term fails every normal standard of being an "ethnic" group and only makes sense as being a "swarthy people south of us" descriptor. Notice that outside of the US census and studies that draw on the US census, Hispanic is used as a racial descriptor or a simultaneous racial/ethnic descriptor (race and ethnicity get really blurry at times). How often do you run into Hispanic being treated as an equivalent grouping to black or white? Because thats how its treated in the media and society almost all of the time and thats how I encountered it used in medical and bio literature.
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May 21, 2014 18:20
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Nessus posted:In general Common Core seems to guide us towards a world of test scores and the like, which is a trend we already deal with and which isn't helping much. (Oh but we need data, accountability, our children, how dare you not embrace the future of privately operated charter schools, etc.) I don't think the core (ha ha) idea of an actual national curriculum is that bad, really.
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May 21, 2014 18:21
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, me neither, but if it's all based on competing internationally and there's no good way to measure the stuff I find most important about education, isn't that stuff going to get the shaft? On the higher education level, for all our problems and perils, we still get huge swaths of the world coming here for post-secondary education despite everything. So I'm pretty dubious about there being fundamental, non-manufactured crises in the American educational system, but I could just be bitter for backing the wrong horse when I got an M Ed. 
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May 21, 2014 18:31
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VitalSigns posted:Are you really claiming there is any legitimacy to the complaint that Hillary didn't treat her post of Secretary of State like it made her Empress? SubponticatePoster posted:Last I checked, SecState isn't in charge of the VA and doesn't have anything to do with them. I wasn't saying it was a legitimate claim, I'm just saying the GOP can and probably will try to pin the VA issue on Hillary in 2016 by virtue of her association with the Obama administration. If she distances herself from it she could be portrayed as passing the buck - it's not her buck to begin with, I understand that, but if you associate her with Obama and Obama with vet mistreatment then the public (for the GOP primary anyway - I know Hillary doesn't factor into that directly, but making sweeping claims of what "The Democrats" have done to "ruin our nation" during a GOP primary seems common) might start making that direct connection. What's more, like others have mentioned, it has basis in reality moreso than Benghazi. Blame Hillary on Benghazi and then throw the VA issue at her and by that point conservative/-leaning voters may be swayed away from her (assuming she wins the Dem primary). Amergin fucked around with this message at 18:38 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 18:33
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, me neither, but if it's all based on competing internationally and there's no good way to measure the stuff I find most important about education, isn't that stuff going to get the shaft? That's the problem. Once performance-based incentives get thrown into the mix it all goes to poo poo. Over-worked and underpaid teachers get hammered if their students bomb exams so they teach for the test and not the material itself. Well at least on the public side.
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May 21, 2014 18:34
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Nessus posted:Yeah, 'competing internationally.' What is often unstated is that due to the differences of how our schools are organized, in most of these metrics we're comparing our "entire mass of students" to other nations' "elite prep school equivalents." When you compare our apples to their apples we usually come out looking pretty decent, if with a dismaying quantity of failure for poor and minority students. Of course the solution proposed is to turn those schools' revenue streams into private profit centers, because of course it is. edit: that BBC article from before is attacking the belief that we're lower in test scores just because the poor are dragging us down, though. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 18:41 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 18:37
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What's funny is that for all the insistence in this thread on a paper bag test for Hispanicness, the category was invented to keep light-skinned Spanish-speakers out of white schools in the Southwest. Now that Hispanics/Latinos have organized around that imposed identity, motherfuckers are out there trying to decide for the community who does and doesn't count as a member or whether it is a legitimate category to begin with. Hispanics can be "white" in the sense of European descent, but let's not pretend race has EVER broken down on that, and they can be "white" in the sense of fair skin or hair or whatever, which is no more a dispositive indicator of identity than any other characteristic that might enable someone to engage in the well-researched phenomenon of racial passing, but whether that counts as "white" socially is at best case by case and more cynically dependent on the needs of the argument being made when the arguer decides to determine the criteria for Hispanic identity. Also, white Hispanic has been a term in use for a long time, it has just been of limited utility because society treats Hispanics as a bloc or they carve people out of the group. More common is that within Hispanic communities, people identify as white or black or mixed or of indigenous descent. Hispanic is an umbrella identity in that it faces outside the community but doesn't necessarily (though it can) play within the community. None of which changes the fact that calling George Zimmerman a "white Hispanic" was a blatant cover move for a huge gently caress up by the media that lots of people - including myself, I'm ashamed to say - didn't pick up on until everyone was so entrenched in their positions that any attempt to correct would have been seen as retreat. Zimmerman's mom is Afro-Peruvian - he is just as much black Hispanic as white Hispanic, though obviously people perceive their own identities according to their experiences and unless he has an account or has made a statement on it that I haven't seen, anyone arguing that he definitively is or isn't whatever is speaking with unfounded certainty.
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May 21, 2014 18:42
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The Warszawa posted:What's funny is that for all the insistence in this thread on a paper bag test for Hispanicness, the category was invented to keep light-skinned Spanish-speakers out of white schools in the Southwest. Now that Hispanics/Latinos have organized around that imposed identity, motherfuckers are out there trying to decide for the community who does and doesn't count as a member or whether it is a legitimate category to begin with. Yeah, but he's still a violent racist and a murderer, and Amergin's still hideously uncomfortable when people who don't belong to his race talk about racial problems in a racial context.
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May 21, 2014 18:49
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Jesus Christ how long has this derail been going on, race is a social construct there are no "real" rules. Why are people so determined to treat a fundamentally irrational concept as if it was a scientific one. George Zimmerman, is "White" he's also "Hispanic" he's also "White Hispanic" and probably a half dozen other things as long as there's someone out there who views him as such and none of you have found the objectively correct terminology.
DynamicSloth fucked around with this message at 18:53 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 18:50
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SedanChair posted:You missed my point. He is not the descendant of slaves, therefore according to the classes BUSH 2112 took he isn't black. Don't worry, that wasn't intended as a response to you.
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May 21, 2014 18:52
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Everyone also got distracted from the real issue in the Zimmerman case that made it actually a national story, which was not whether the shooting was self defense or murder, but why the police department of Sanford, FL decided to basically not investigate the shooting of a black kid.
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May 21, 2014 18:54
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Everyone also got distracted from the real issue in the Zimmerman case that made it actually a national story, which was not whether the shooting was self defense or murder, but why the police department of Sanford, FL decided to basically not investigate the shooting of a black kid. Well, it was a question basically everyone knew the answer to going in, and the tape editing incident and incredibly stupid commentary ruined any move on that angle. On the other hand, at least it resulted in the exile of Derbyshire. Anyone interested in racial identity issues should pick up the work of Kenji Yoshino pronto.
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May 21, 2014 19:00
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In primary news: WSJ's takeaways are all basically "Tea Party got clobbered". But my favorite bit:WSJ posted:The Senate Conservatives Fund and FreedomWorks, which both backed Mr. Bevin, didn’t waste any time embracing Mr. McConnell after the race was called. FreedomWorks declared the race a victory because Mr. McConnell was forced to “rediscover his conservative principles,” according to Matt Kibbe, the group’s president. We won even though we lost because we affected the system! EDIT: Alter Ego posted:Yeah, but he's still a violent racist and a murderer, and Amergin's still hideously uncomfortable when people who don't belong to his race talk about racial problems in a racial context. I feel like this is that thing Fox News does where they keep repeating something false until they believe it to be true. I have no problem with racial problems in a racial context (otherwise why would I listen to TMM every day?), stop projecting your hate of actual racists onto me and re-read my posts maybe? Amergin fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 19:03
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Radish posted:I think they are playing with fire there. The Benghazi scandal is fiction but with the VAs there's a real problem. Any real investigation won't just be a ridiculous circle jerk about finding fake facts but will reveal that actual people are to blame and I would guess the party that loves cutting government departments might have a hand in it. Much better to fan fake flames and get your base angry over something that isn't real and thus ultimately toothless. That assumes they're interested in finding the root of or solution to the issue rather than just using it as a cross on which to hang any sort of socialized health care.
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May 21, 2014 19:05
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Samurai Sanders posted:I was looking at the official pages myths and realities section and it was like "myth: the common core standards were not made with international testing in mind". They consider THAT the myth? Maybe they need to get out more.
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May 21, 2014 19:05
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Amergin posted:In primary news: WSJ's takeaways are all basically "Tea Party got clobbered". But my favorite bit: Conservative principles such as putting Duke basketball footage in a Kentucky campaign ad.
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May 21, 2014 19:13
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