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Libluini posted:I remember reading in the news long ago about Gaddafis' rape harem. Something about women with the wrong political views being captured and systematically raped. At that point I was so disgusted I tried to repress this memory as fast as possible. Yes and Saddam was accused of super gluing the anus of gays so that they died painful deaths according to the USA. Also according to the USA Saddam was in several gay movies before he became supreme dictator of Iraq. I don't doubt that sexual violence was used against men and women around the world. It being most common in Egypt. Sexual violence is more a form of torture even if the act is rape. That doesn't downplay the acts but using the term of "rape harem" is ignorant and stupid. It's not uncommon even in the USA. The only thing I am interested in is the facts and the statistics. Not the hyperbole and catchy slogans and misinformed people who think that Saddam, who instigated one of the worst wars and acts of suppression in the modern middle east, would bring a tear to his eye what Qaddafi did. Yes, Qaddafi tried to form a cult of personality with his green book. He believed in Unity and liberation movements such as those in south africa and was himself a revolutionary of his own kind. He invested a lot of money to try to free Africa from Europe's grips and many Africans, including South Africa, still have fondness for him in their heart. Libya, on the whole, was not a poor nation. It was a nation who's economy was destroyed by various sanctions because he helped "terrorists" like Nelson Mandela. When 9-11 happened, instead of putting his people at risk, he simply took all tech for WMD's (which where primitive to say the least) and tried his best to lift sanctions to enrich his country. This money went both to the citizens of Libya as well as to build telecommunications systems in Africa. The thing is with Qaddafi is that he was an old school revolutionary who did not know to call it quits. As well as the propaganda bombardment from Qatar, Qaddafi military being under manned, Qatari and other imports being much more effective then Qaddafi's rusty old weapons, and Nato indiscriminate bombing campaign on Qaddafi supporting institutions and citizens. It was pretty much over for a man who woulda died within a few years.
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May 21, 2014 13:36
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BabyChoom posted:It was pretty much over for a man who woulda died within a few years. And what would happen if Qaddafi had passed before a civil uprising? Wouldn't de facto power go to his sons? This sort of feudalism was the fuse in Syria. Hereditary rule must come to an end everywhere. It is unjust. Of course now in he 21st century we are seeing new consequences when a mass revolt (the basic form of might making right) is supplemented by an outside force. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yntQOw_nXc
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May 21, 2014 13:51
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Volkerball posted:Let me elaborate on my position here so you can see where I'm coming from. This is primarily related to Syria, but it holds true in some form through most of these post arab-spring societies in the middle east. The only things that get reported on are developments with jihadist militias, and atrocities committed. No one is falling over themselves to read about a peaceful protest happening in Aleppo or to watch interviews with people in refugee camps, or people who had to much pride to be forced from their homes in Syria, pleading for help and demanding to know why the world has turned its back on them, and news outlets know it. When you aren't presented these millions upon millions of people, and only notice the bad things that happen in their countries, it leads conveniently into a view of the middle east as an rear end backwards shithole where failure is inevitable. What people aren't made aware of is the hope and promise that continues to exist in all these places. In Syria, bakers and farmers rose up against brutal crackdowns on protestors who even today stand for values that a lot of people in this thread would claim to stand for. That a presidency shouldn't just be handed down from father to son, that a leader should be accountable to their people for their actions. These people faced polio, sarin, freezing winters in shoddy tents, constant bombardment with artillery, bombs, and chlorine, the loss of their entire families, and on and on, and through it all, they've refused to yield an inch because gently caress living one day in submission to a man who uses torture and murder as a tool to reach his goals. People with more personal courage than anyone you will ever meet in your life, that inspire everyone who gets the opportunity to meet them in person and see how a person who's seen incomprehensible sadness and fought through it carries themselves. Through it all, they still continue to hold weekly peaceful protests knowing full well that the world doesn't watch, and still maintain diplomatic relations with a world that watched a warehouse full of sarin get dumped on their homes and shrugged its shoulders. Yes jihadists exist. Yes the regime exists. But so do these people. There is no excuse to marginalize good people even further than they already are. That's why it's so frustrating to read posts that refer to every step forward as ten steps behind, that predict failure for endeavors before they've even started and relish in how right they are every time something bad happens, and constantly demean everything positive with lovely talking points to uphold their narrative that everyone is wrong and bad to justify their decisions to handwave away millions of people as failures and irrelevant because they haven't had enough victories to meet your quota for the month. Hell even Somalia is taking steps in the right direction, and the security situation in Mogadishu is the most promising it's been in decades, and you acted like it's the standard bearer for lovely, regressive failures. In Libya, there have been protests that expelled some of these groups already. I'd imagine there's quite a few who would be offended that you think they would just roll over and die if the coup goes through and the militia starts ruling unfairly. Just cut people a little slack. Libyans were worth aiding. If our government's motivation for intervention was actually about aiding Libyans, I'd agree with you.
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May 21, 2014 15:02
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Y014ijSBoIf this was posted here before the upload date on that video, sorry. Someone probably reads arabic here; it would be great to know where this video was taken and who these people were. This is like the Blackwater video from Iraq turned to 11, why would you broadcast this?
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May 21, 2014 16:02
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Rukeli posted:3) Opposing totalitarianism is a noble thing to do, but the methods to do so are limited. History has Revolutions that have both failed and succeeded in bringing about proper change. Nobody could have known for sure if Libya was going to become better or worse. What matters is that people were trying to make it better. I suggest we start thinking in solutions to problems instead of debating endlessly about alternate histories. Qaddafi's Libya wasn't Totalitarian and something something Road to Hell something something Good Intentions.
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May 21, 2014 16:20
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Is the situation in Libya really so desperate? I honestly can't think of a nation that had a total revolutionary flip of government (Dictator to Parlaiment, Parlaiment to Junta, etc.) that wasn't a total shitshow for decades. I mean wasn't the US for the first decade utterly unstable and prone to revolt and instability? And I think I remember reading an article that mentioned NATO (or some other group) training members of their armed forces. Maybe I'm optimistic, but from where I'm standing it looks like their government is doing comparatively well considering the country's general instability.
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May 21, 2014 16:37
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90+ new posts in about a day? That can only mean...  A) Nerve gas attack!!!  B) BabyChoom attack!!!
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May 21, 2014 16:39
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Pimpmust posted:90+ new posts in about a day? That can only mean... Both have been referred to The Hague as war crimes. Unfortunately, SA does not have an extradition treaty.
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May 21, 2014 16:46
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This is at risk of getting lost, but the SAA is making major headway in northern Aleppo, lifting the siege of the central prison and pushing onward. If they can maintain these positions it won't be good news for Aleppo rebels.
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May 21, 2014 16:49
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817 posted:
That's ISIS in Iraq. I posted the full 1-hour video on the last page (or the one before that). A lof of the stuff seemed to be about targeting Sahwa officers and such, although it seems they dont mind chasing down and murdering witnesses either. edit: Just checked and it was taken down. Radio Prune fucked around with this message at 16:56 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 16:52
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Bloody Pancreas posted:Is the situation in Libya really so desperate? I honestly can't think of a nation that had a total revolutionary flip of government (Dictator to Parlaiment, Parlaiment to Junta, etc.) that wasn't a total shitshow for decades. I mean wasn't the US for the first decade utterly unstable and prone to revolt and instability? And I think I remember reading an article that mentioned NATO (or some other group) training members of their armed forces. Maybe I'm optimistic, but from where I'm standing it looks like their government is doing comparatively well considering the country's general instability. But the whole point of humanitarian missions is to unfuck something, right?
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May 21, 2014 17:03
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BabyChoom posted:Yes and Saddam was accused of super gluing the anus of gays so that they died painful deaths according to the USA. Also according to the USA Saddam was in several gay movies before he became supreme dictator of Iraq. Well, I used the term because there really is no word for what Gaddafi has done in this case, so I was at a loss for words. Also in this case, the first accusations came not from the United States of Evil, but from Luis Moreno Ocampo in Buenos Aires. According to the article, he was chief prosecutor of the UN in 2011. For those who can read German, please avoid the comment section of that article. The complete disregard of the victims and the lack of human empathy would make you vomit.
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May 21, 2014 17:12
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MothraAttack posted:This is at risk of getting lost, but the SAA is making major headway in northern Aleppo, lifting the siege of the central prison and pushing onward. If they can maintain these positions it won't be good news for Aleppo rebels. Got any news source with more details?
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May 21, 2014 17:23
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I.. Don't even know how to process that video, it's practically surreal, hi-definition and nice production values overlaid with some of the most horrifying poo poo I've seen. This is real, yes? 
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May 21, 2014 17:26
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Pimpmust posted:Got any news source with more details? Not yet, buts lots of armchair analysts and activists seem to be confirming it. State TV also had an anchor earlier within the complex's line of sight. I think we should expect more in the coming day.
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May 21, 2014 17:34
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Brand new Vice documentary on The Battle for Aleppo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg5UEz_Ao0g E: watch at your own risk they pull a dead baby out of the ruins of an airstrike
Miltank fucked around with this message at 20:07 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 19:26
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Is this the thread where we talk about the Happiness arrest?
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May 21, 2014 20:22
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You can try, but I can't imagine who would care.
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May 21, 2014 20:26
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that thing sure happened.
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May 21, 2014 20:30
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Pee-pee Doo-doo Iran is a bad country to live in.
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May 21, 2014 21:15
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If ever there was an indicator that "terrorist" has become a byword for "Muslim" here's a Buzzfeed quiz asking How Much Do You Actually Know About Terrorism, Anyway? I got 11 out of 11 right! Then I shared it on Facebook and Twitter! 
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May 21, 2014 22:00
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Aurubin posted:If ever there was an indicator that "terrorist" has become a byword for "Muslim" here's a Buzzfeed quiz asking How Much Do You Actually Know About Terrorism, Anyway? I got 9/11.  It is pretty hilarious how it only covers Islamist groups.
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May 21, 2014 23:00
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Calling the Taliban a terrorist group isn't very accurate.
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May 21, 2014 23:39
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Peel posted:The person a page ago who complained about 'utilitarianism in the defence of dictators' was an idiot. Utilitarianism is an important ethical perspective that deserves respect in discussions of how great power should be used. No it isn't an no it doesn't.
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May 21, 2014 23:43
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It's the sort of thing that would show up in a ham-fisted fantasy / sci-fi novel to show how oppressive the government is. "Sir, we have rounded up all of the perpetrators involved in expressing their happiness. For these and future thoughtcrimes they will be committed to an iso chamber without parole."
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May 21, 2014 23:55
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Wasn't last week Nakba day? Well here is a video of the most moral army in the world shooting down a Palestinian on Nakba day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWFIpmPqE_w
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May 22, 2014 00:56
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While I think Vox is generally vapid, I think this article about a paper arguing that the rationale for the targeted killing program is flawed by virtue of the fact that the better organized jihadist groups are bureaucratic in nature, not dependent on a figurehead for coherence is decent. Linking because Vox is anathema to phones: http://vox.com/e/5502231
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May 22, 2014 05:00
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Radio Prune posted:That's ISIS in Iraq. I posted the full 1-hour video on the last page (or the one before that). A lof of the stuff seemed to be about targeting Sahwa officers and such, although it seems they dont mind chasing down and murdering witnesses either. There were some pretty harrowing stuff in that one hour video too which includes ISIS fighters dressed up as Iraqi soldiers going door to door executing and beheading soldiersWith the re-election of Maliki who knows what the state of affairs in Iraqi will be in the near future.
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May 22, 2014 06:45
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Patrick Kingsley of the Guardian is currently Tweeting the AJ Trial in Egypt, which is becoming increasingly bizarre. The "evidence" seems to be irrelevant news clips, possibly a recording from the unrelated American NGO trial in 2013, and Gotye's Somebody That I Used To Know. [edit]quote:#AJtrial – @Repent11 lawyer is still cross-examining engineer who helped prepare evidence. Engineer says he prepared it w/o analysing it Looks like there's been another chlorine barrel bomb attack in Al Tamanah, videos here. Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 13:18 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 12:37
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The Guardian has printed an updated look at Khalifa Haftar in Libya. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/22/libya-renegade-general-upheaval
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May 22, 2014 19:00
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Miruvor posted:The Guardian has printed an updated look at Khalifa Haftar in Libya. Yeah, his backing still remains pretty murky. The Guardian tries to throw water on the US backing him but it is still a bit of a question mark. Another son of NoVa takes on the world?
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May 22, 2014 19:41
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The Syrian military reached Aleppo Central Prison, and broke the siege that had been going on for a year. Photos have been published here. This one stood out in particular Seems children were among the prisoners. Here's a video from the prison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJSaTHJdN3E Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 20:01 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 19:51
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Who was holding the prisoners?
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May 22, 2014 20:05
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Why where the prisoners doing victory signs and clapping for the troops? Who where they prisoners of?
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May 22, 2014 20:27
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BabyChoom posted:Why where the prisoners doing victory signs and clapping for the troops? You shouldn't be questioning this one, BabyChoom. They're being freed by Heroic Assad Syrian Army, not Evil Zionist Rebel Army, so there's no need for you to question the authenticity of this or ask if it's photo op or something.
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May 22, 2014 20:35
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There's been a second chemical attack reported today, this time in Kafr Zita, and one of the video seems to have greenish-yellow gas in it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU26RJ1IXYo
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May 22, 2014 20:44
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Turns out there was another attack on Kafr Zita this morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMa1Mk-8vJA This on the day the UNSC votes to refer Syria to the ICC and Russia and China vetoes it.
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May 22, 2014 20:55
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Wait, was it not the Syrian Army that was holding the prison in the first place? Presumably any prisoners would have been put there by well, them, so how does this "liberation" story work out
Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 05:26 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 05:24
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From AP: BREAKING: Syrian state media, activists say mortar hits election rally for Bashar Assad, killing scores
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May 23, 2014 08:11
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Misandrist Duck posted:From AP: Holding elections while rebels hold most of the country and everyone hates you anyway: A bad idea.
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May 23, 2014 10:27
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