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I'm going by different criteria - I still think Erik giving away his necklace was the worst of all time, because he thought it would help him in the game by doing so. I get the sense Woo knew he was probably making a million dollar blunder, but did it anyway because that's the code he lives by. But if you're looking at it from a strict "worst move is determined by the relative gains and losses from the player's strategic position" in the game standpoint then Colby taking Tina over Keith and Ian jumping off the buoy to remain friends with Katie have to be up there with Woo's decision.
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May 22, 2014 06:27
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Teek posted:I'm still not entirely convinced it's a clear cut as this. Kass pissed off a lot of them, but I think she may have had a chance with the jury since she would have ended up making it to the end, even after backstabbing her alliance several times. She's so deluded though the questioning would probably have been a complete disaster. No, and the jury affirmed as much on the reunion show. Spencer, Sarah, Tony, Morgan and Trish were never going to vote for her. Jeremiah and Tasha were very unlikely too (especially with the knowledge Tasha voted for Woo). She was loathed and no one respected her startegy that didn't eventually end up bickering with her.
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May 22, 2014 06:27
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Robnoxious posted:Last year was by no means a good yard stick as they put in a house full of loathsome people. I've watched every season except for last year's. After a couple of episodes it was past the point of hate watching or enjoying the drama, it was vile. I guess I'll be back this year, hoping they really learned from their mistakes with that cast, but BB doesn't have the best track record with casting in general.
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May 22, 2014 06:27
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BGrifter posted:I suppose it's possible the jury wasn't being entirely truthful when asked the whole "if it was Woo and Kass who would you vote for" at the finale, but it seems quite likely they were telling the truth. I agree to an extent. The post-jury poll is a nice idea, but it still usually operates on a scenario which didn't happen. Meaning while I doubt Kass could have dropped the ego enough to talk honestly with the jury, she had the tools and background to actually present a compelling case for a win if she was against Woo. So while the jury might say afterwards there was no chance in hell, feasibly she could have possibly swayed a few (which I admit, would have been tough). Maybe not enough to win, but it may not have exactly lined up with what the jury raised their hands for. Big Brother new/spoiler thread will probably go up near the beginning of next month to build hype going in. Houseguests should move in around June 19th or 20th. Milovan Drecun posted:No, and the jury affirmed as much on the reunion show. Spencer, Sarah, Tony, Morgan and Trish were never going to vote for her. Jeremiah and Tasha were very unlikely too (especially with the knowledge Tasha voted for Woo). She was loathed and no one respected her startegy that didn't eventually end up bickering with her. I understand and agree, my belief is though the post-show straw polls in general are flawed. Most of the time they may be dead on (you can only do so much with a bitter jury), but they're still operating on scenarios which didn't play out. We don't always get Spencer speeches like the jury in this season, but that type of thing is specific to this particular final two. Who knows how some of these things might play out when someone else is sitting there. Maybe Spencer swallows his Survivor pride and re-evaluates his opinion of her when he's forced to see her in final two? Maybe he then makes a similar spiel for her? We'll never know though, as it didn't happen. Instead we're left with jurors who get to continue to poo poo on her since she was voted out. Which she totally deserves anyway. As for the finale, semi-happy Tony won. Would have been interesting to see him pull it off without the super-idol though. Glad Jeff acknowledged the poo poo it was receiving. While I buy that the person who found it did affect public opinion on its worth, I still think it's shouldn't have been brought back. That or they should have added a new wrinkle to it. Or just simply have told everyone what kind of super-idol it was... Teek fucked around with this message at 06:49 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 06:28
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I also thought the juxtaposition between Tony and Woo was interesting: Tony: I am completely different on Survivor than I am when I am a cop. Woo: In martial arts, you always want to compete against the best, and that's what I'm going to do on Survivor.
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May 22, 2014 06:28
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What a great season. I think Tony may be one of the most impressive players in Survivor history. The only other person who played that aggressive of a game and won is Boston Rob, but Tony did it with a harder cast.
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May 22, 2014 06:46
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Poor Woo. I can understand his decision to take Tony to the finals, but it really was the wrong decision. I can even see him thinking that maybe the jury would be bitter enough to vote for him over the person who pretty much backstabbed everyone on the jury. I wonder if he would have gotten a couple more votes if it wasn't for Spencers speech. It was hilarious seeing everyone slam Kass on the jury. She was so full of herself that I'm actually glad that she didn't get a chance to try to explain her actions, even though watching her get grilled by the jury would have been interesting. As for the BB talk, I never really got into it that much. I remember watching most/part of seasons 8-12, but 'someone' in season 12 pretty much turned me off the show for good. I think that watching the live feeds makes it a bit more interesting, but it also kind of ruins it because what you see there can often be so much different than the edits for the production shows.
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May 22, 2014 06:47
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How'd that Kings/Blackhawks watchfest turn out for ya, late commer? Ding dong! Enjoy the game Saturday.  GKG
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May 22, 2014 07:04
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Robnoxious posted:How'd that Kings/Blackhawks watchfest turn out for ya, late commer? Ugh, it was great right up until the third period when the Hawks decided to poo poo the bed. I wish they would start playing all three periods in these playoffs, but they only seem to want to play two of them. Usually it's the second period where they slack off. I'm not all doom and gloom yet, but if they don't split the games in LA, I'm not going to be holding onto much hope.
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May 22, 2014 07:24
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Teek posted:I agree to an extent. The post-jury poll is a nice idea, but it still usually operates on a scenario which didn't happen. I'm usually in total agreement the post-jury poll is bullshit, but in this case it's just another bit of evidence for something we've seen a lot of evidence for over the last few weeks of the season. The exit interviews on RHAP, some of the comments on Twitter, the jury speeches, it all paints a picture of Kass being a bigger goat than we as viewers saw her to be. I suspect they dialed back just how ostracized she was to create drama toward the end of the season. We'll never know for sure, but I don't think it's terribly unfair to say Woo is an overwhelmingly heavy favourite in a Woo vs Kass final tribal. As for Tony, despite putting a bit of a damper on everyone's enthusiasm for his win earlier, I actually don't think the super idol ended up being that big of a factor. It's a bit of a shame Tony will forever get stuck with that asterisk on his record when he really doesn't deserve it. Similarly Yul gets an unfair rap for having the super idol when I think it's extremely likely he wins that season without it.
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May 22, 2014 07:24
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JesusSinfulHands posted:
I don't know if this conversation has ever been brought up but I have to admit that that challenge was probably one of the worst thought up in Survivor history. It was basically begging for someone to do exactly what Ian did. There was no level of skill involved in it. Katie basically got off because she was bored and knew she was going to the end either way. They would both still probably be hanging on today if a million dollars was on the line.
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May 22, 2014 07:25
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BGrifter posted:As for Tony, despite putting a bit of a damper on everyone's enthusiasm for his win earlier, I actually don't think the super idol ended up being that big of a factor. It's a bit of a shame Tony will forever get stuck with that asterisk on his record when he really doesn't deserve it. Similarly Yul gets an unfair rap for having the super idol when I think it's extremely likely he wins that season without it. We'll never know for sure, but to me it looks like it made a huge difference. Without the security of the super idol, Tony probably plays the regular idol at Final 6 when Kass tried to freak Tony out at Tribal. Then Tony would be completely Idol-less at Final 5 when the anti-Tony fervor was at it's greatest. If there was ever a time Woo was going to flip on Tony it would have been at 5. To me, the real asterisk of the season is the rock-drawing for the Idol clue at the auction. We were one rock away from Spencer and Tasha both having immunity and all hell breaking loose. Obviously luck is always a big factor on the show, but it's annoying that the past two winners both won their games largely on the virtue of a lucky rock draw.
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May 22, 2014 07:39
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I feel bad for Woo. He seems like a great dude, but it wouldn't have felt right to see him win. He just seems a little too good/genuine/pure for such a cutthroat game. Also, I don't think his whole "martial arts honor/integrity" pitch really made much sense in the scheme of what he was trying to do. Didn't letting Tony off the hook and keeping him in the game despite him being almost down and out pretty much go against everything he was talking about? I mean, if Woo didn't feel that beating Kass was a worthy victory, by the same logic, wouldn't Tony's victory over Woo be similarly unworthy by virtue of him being given a free pass instead of getting KO'd by Woo when he had the chance? Tony didn't defend himself very well in front of the jury, but I'm glad the power of his game spoke for itself in the end. It was hilarious to see the jury still get their jabs in at Kass during their questions to Woo and Tony. I still think she brought something interesting to the table this year, and may have been able to change a few minds with some well-crafted responses to the jury if given the chance (probably not many, though). Great winner, great cast, great season.
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May 22, 2014 08:14
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Yeah, I think Parvati was totally right in what she said during the episode. If Tony had been willing to own up and admit to his moves I feel like it wouldn't have felt nearly so hostile.
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May 22, 2014 08:27
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Survivor Cagayan: Stupid, stupid, stupid. Woo is all time great goat. WTF, Tasha?
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May 22, 2014 08:28
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Woo's vote to keep Tony for F2 is probably the worst choice in any season for FTC, insane. Season redeemed.
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May 22, 2014 10:02
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Fitting end to a wild ride of a season. Glad Tony won liked Spencer before the jury speech loved him after it. Woo (sigh) what where you thinking. Nothing but love for this season except the Tyler Perry it added nothing and potentially prevented even more chaos. Blood VS Water with newbies has alot of potential looking forward to it.
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May 22, 2014 11:49
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I was no fan of Spencer before the FTC but his speech was great and showed that he is a true superfan, so I'm ok with his inevitable return (probably in season 30). It would be great if every jury member would have to give a 30-60second statement why they choose to vote for the guy they voted for and CBS could put that up on the website. BvW with all newbies will be interesting, but as with all seasons there is no way to predict if its a good season or a bad one at this point. On good news is that Jeff confirmed on ew.com that they solved the water challenge problem and we will have them the next 2 seasons.
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May 22, 2014 12:04
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What a great season, you really couldn't get a better ending. It was so funny when Woo was talking to the camera about what would happen at a tie. Also Tony answering "No" To Trish's rant about his dead father. The reunion show seemed pretty average and it's so annoying we get more audience interviews every time. Did anyone catch why the two cops fell out again? Also Kass didn't do or say much.
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May 22, 2014 12:27
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GaussianCopula posted:I was no fan of Spencer before the FTC but his speech was great and showed that he is a true superfan, so I'm ok with his inevitable return (probably in season 30). Current best guess from leaks in casting and former Survivor not getting contacted is actually that S30 is also new players.
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May 22, 2014 12:34
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Do we know whether the decision for a final two was a reaction on Tony abusing the lack of clearly defined rules for the Tyler Perry Idol? Anyway, this was a good season, mainly because everybody seemed to understand that it's more fun to watch comparatively happy people duke it out. There was little bitterness and that made it enjoyable. Woo!
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May 22, 2014 13:59
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Sqeetschy posted:Do we know whether the decision for a final two was a reaction on Tony abusing the lack of clearly defined rules for the Tyler Perry Idol? Sounds like it was actually due to Lindsey quitting... Jeff Probst posted:Lindsey quitting changed our numbers and so instead of a final three we only had enough players for a final two. Fortunately we knew early enough that we could adapt without any interruption. Yes, I loved having the final two and yes had it been Kass vs Woo I would not have been as happy. I absolutely see the simplicity of a season with no Redemption Island and a final 2. I get it. But the truth of the matter is that when we start with twenty people it’s very hard to get the numbers down to a final two. It’s honestly just math. http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/22/survivor-cagayan-jeff-probst-finale-reunion/
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May 22, 2014 14:10
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GaussianCopula posted:
Fixed this for you. That is awesome news and everyone should be thrilled!
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May 22, 2014 14:32
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sportsgenius86 posted:He didn't win but I hope people finally realize that Spencer is good at this and was simply put on the defensive so fast that he never really got a chance to show it. I want to see Spencer and his sister play on a BvW season. He was a great player.
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May 22, 2014 15:16
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Kloaked00 posted:YES OH THANK GOD THE SEASON IS SAVED I like to think the looks on the faces of the Jury is horror at the prospect of having to spend another night with Kass. Also: Kid nation was the best. Edit: I'm in the middle of final tribal - Woo isn't Fabio - He's Coach, if someone gave Coach a lobotomy. Sarah looks significantly fatter than even the beginning of the season - I don't think I've ever seen that happen before, how can you possibly eat enough to put on that much weight in a couple of weeks? Edit 2: Holy poo poo, Wrath of the Skeleton Queen... Edit 3: AHAHAHAHAHAHAH.... Spencer's analogy is so much better than mine. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 16:28 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 15:50
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The more I think about it the happier I am that Woo took Tony to the finals instead of Kass. I can respect that decision despite the fact that it cost him a million dollars. I think I'm just really getting tired of seeing someone who is hated get dragged to the end. I know it's a viable strategy, but it really does rub me the wrong way lately. Maybe it's because I don't think I'd be able to handle dealing with that kind of person day in, day out for very long. Maybe I just agree with Woo that I'd rather sit there next to the best and lose with some honor and grace than to win over someone who is reviled by the jury, despite my competitiveness and desire to win. So while his decision was the wrong one from a pure gameplay perspective, I think it was the right decision from a personal perspective.
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May 22, 2014 16:24
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TMMadman posted:Maybe I just agree with Woo that I'd rather sit there next to the best and lose with some honor and grace than to win over someone who is reviled by the jury, despite my competitiveness and desire to win. There is no "honor and grace" in making a stupid decision and throwing away the win. Spencer nailed it, the way you respect the game and the history of it is by playing to win. Woo made a bad choice and tried to justify it with a bunch of irrelevant crap. Tony probably deserves a little more credit for his play at final three. He got into Woo's head. Swinging that vote was the difference between a million dollars and less than $100k for third place.
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May 22, 2014 16:43
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Tide posted:Part of me thinks Survivor is just a flawed game. It's just a random winner game show, in reality. It has a slick edit of being something strategic and under the player's thumbs when it isn't, which is I guess the general reality TV formula. Make a story out of a cheap and silly collection of gimmicks. Awesome payout for the producers because it gets a consistent fanbase. I guess the pro to that is you really don't ever know what will happen if you don't have spoilers, so at least it's unpredictable.
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May 22, 2014 16:50
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I'm still not fully convinced that Kass couldn't have talked her way into enough votes to beat Woo. Woo had absolutely no case and has an abhorrent ability to persuade anyone. Kass, for all of her faults, would have at least been able to lay claim to moves that impacted the game, regardless of their stupidity. I think the most likely scenario is that she loses a close vote to Woo, but I think she had a decent enough chance of winning. I don't put much weight into the opinions of people who have seen a wealth of things on the show that they wouldn't have known at the actual final vote. Especially considering there were obviously people who had no intentions of voting Tony going into final tribal who ended up doing so because of what happened there.
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May 22, 2014 17:00
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No chance of winning, man. Contestants are STILL going on and on about how they hate Kass months after the game is over. You think a nice jury speech is going to make that kind of hate disappear? And that's assuming you get something nice and persuasive out of her when, more likely, things would've gotten combative, everyone would have ripped into her, she would have come back at them, etc. That would have been an ugly hypothetical jury.
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May 22, 2014 17:04
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sportsgenius86 posted:I'm still not fully convinced that Kass couldn't have talked her way into enough votes to beat Woo. Given that we see less than 1% of what happens during the time on the island and everyone unanimously disliking Kass, it's safe to assume that Kass got one of the most gracious edits in the history of reality TV. Despite that, she was still hated by most viewers. Ouch. I'm not happy that the douchelord cop was handsomely rewarded for his ridiculous behavior, but everyone in the F3 sucked: Kass is a self-aggrandizing mess, Tony is a paranoid brute who was transparently coached by production and gets paid to around with a gun on a daily basis, and Woo has been kicked in the head too many times to be capable of critical thought. The fact that they spent so much of the first half of the reunion trying to make the audience believe that Tony isn't a sack of poo poo was insulting. Too bad Tasha was dealt such a terrible hand. Also, gently caress Tyler Perry. the truth fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 17:27
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BGrifter posted:There is no "honor and grace" in making a stupid decision and throwing away the win. Spencer nailed it, the way you respect the game and the history of it is by playing to win. Woo made a bad choice and tried to justify it with a bunch of irrelevant crap. I disagree and I actually felt like Spencers speech was a bit over the top and took a bit of the shine off him for me. I thought it was a bit sanctimonious and presumes that Spencers ideas are the only way to win. There are clearly multiple ways to win the game. And at a certain point you have to stay true to yourself because you have to live with yourself after the game ends. I think if I was in Woos place I would have taken Tony simply because I hate Kass and wouldn't have wanted to spent my last night and nice breakfast with her. And when asked why I took Tony my answer would have been, 'Because gently caress Kass'. Woo was absolutely right last night when he said Kass did not deserve to be sitting in the final two. If 'playing to win' is going to be your criteria for determining the winner then you have would have had to vote for Kass if Woo took her to the final two because even if you don't agree with her decisions she was certainly playing to win.
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May 22, 2014 17:30
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Woo may not have gotten first place, but what he did is get a lot of exposure that highlights his positive and fun personality. He may not be anyone's choice to return to Survivor, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't get some sort of media deal based on his play here, which may well end up being more valuable than what he lost by not getting first place. So no, I don't think Woo made an especially foolish move in terms of the long term consequences, even if it wasn't the most strategic move in the game itself.
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May 22, 2014 17:30
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Pinterest Mom posted:Current best guess from leaks in casting and former Survivor not getting contacted is actually that S30 is also new players. Jeff Probst has confirmed this: http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor_30/2014_May_21_probst-cast-new-players I have to say I really liked this new live finale format and I hope they keep it up. It felt like an extra long reunion, and they got most of the 'Interview random audience people who have nothing to do with the season' stuff out of the way before the finale.
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May 22, 2014 17:30
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TMMadman posted:I disagree and I actually felt like Spencers speech was a bit over the top and took a bit of the shine off him for me. I thought it was a bit sanctimonious and presumes that Spencers ideas are the only way to win. There are clearly multiple ways to win the game. And at a certain point you have to stay true to yourself because you have to live with yourself after the game ends. Yup. The fact that Spencer got to speak last and give that speech was a transparent ploy by production to manipulate the jury to solidify a win for Tony.
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May 22, 2014 17:32
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So I've been hearing chatter in some chat's now that Spencer comparing Woo to a dog is racist. Apparently, there is a historical context for comparing to Asians to dogs that I've never seen. Anyone know anything about this?
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May 22, 2014 17:34
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You can always count on someone, somewhere, to be offended by something. If it's cryhard bs, then don't retweet their hashtag and it will go away in a day or two.
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May 22, 2014 17:52
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An old favorite who went to FTC with 'honor and grace': Stephen Fishbach.
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May 22, 2014 17:54
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Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.
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May 22, 2014 18:06
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Woo came off a lot better in his actions in a real life contest but Survivor is not real life. Tony played a far better game than Woo in that he actually played a game rather than just going along with whatever he was told.
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May 22, 2014 18:25
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