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Fried Chicken posted:From personal experience, yes, people can absolutely gently caress up that equipment with dangerous results, both for people and national security. The system is over engineered to hell and back to prevent breakdown or damage, but taking the wrong actions can cause disasters. Not to nitpick, but two people dying on the job over the course of a decade isn't a lot considering the populations of our floating cities and fleets of nuclear powered boats.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:54
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Cheekio posted:Not to nitpick, but two people dying on the job over the course of a decade isn't a lot considering the populations of our floating cities and fleets of nuclear powered boats. It wasn't that those are the only two, its just that I knew those two. And they are both perfect examples of how a chain of small gently caress ups can lead to a bigger problem even if it isn't a reactor accident.
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Jun 3, 2014 02:57
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radical meme posted:
That's why taking something to an ultimate conclusion is usually dumb. There's nothing immutable about the current standards the US military has or had.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:10
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Joementum posted:Yup. My crappy phone photo of it didn't come out though Here's my crappy phone photo of the lights:  Bonus dome shots:  
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Jun 3, 2014 03:19
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. That building is Texas as gently caress. Beautiful grounds too. I especially enjoyed the statue of all the different waves of white people who came to Texas to kill non-white people. 
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Joementum posted:Yup. My crappy phone photo of it didn't come out though Hey now, plenty of Mexicans / Tejanos helped kill people who were neither Mexican nor white.
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Jun 3, 2014 03:23
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Apparently A&B burger in Salem has Del's on tap
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Jun 3, 2014 03:58
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computer parts posted:That's why taking something to an ultimate conclusion is usually dumb. Except for the fact that this is exactly the situation the U.S. found itself in with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think your statement about lowering standards to meet recruitment is exactly correct. So it's not like we have to deal with hypotheticals to see the results. The military lowered its standards to meet quotas; which is well established by many articles I've read. There was nothing wrong with the standards. It was the circumstances that mad the standards unworkable. I 'm just suggesting that maybe the military should learn from that real life experience.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:21
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Relentlessboredomm posted:If your blood pressure is a little low then you should pick up the new Taibbi book. This thing is a rage inducing machine. He, in his usual Taibbi way, demonstrates all the various ways the system is failing but its mostly focused on the Justice System. I'm starting to think Obama or more specifically Eric Holder is the worst thing to happen to the criminal justice system in decades. It's overwhelming how hard the shift has been. They've taken a slow drift and accelerated it exponentially. How is Holder personably responsible (I'm honestly curious)? This sounds like another thing the GOP is bitching about but for absolutely the wrong reasons.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:26
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The draft didn't exactly prevent the US from getting involved in Vietnam. Or Korea. Or the Second World War. Or the First. Or the Spanish-American War. Or cease our involvement in the Civil War. When opposition to those wars occurred, the draft was a factor, but a far, FAR greater factor was the sheer number of people getting killed. Remember, we lost over 50,000 people in Vietnam, and 400,000 in the Second World War. Iraq and Afghanistan have only accounted for 5,200, which while not insignificant pales in comparison to the losses the US suffered in previous wars. That simple fact is a far greater reason why we haven't seen Vietnam-level protest movements, not the lack of a draft. Also, as an aside and speaking as a 21-year old, every time I hear someone say "We should bring back the draft" for whatever reason, for SOME REASON they're typically not of draft age. Just saying.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:41
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One of my French ESL students is really, really anti-immigration and (this is the weird part) somehow thought we had the perfect immigration system here, until I explained that ours is completely hosed. I still have no idea what he thought it was; can any Europeans shed some light on what they think/thought our immigration system is like? edit: I'm grateful to him since I get to hear all these arguments in person that I previously had only read about. He made a literal "one of the good ones" argument about drat lazy Arabs (all of his Arab classmates somehow excluded) today. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 04:41
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Samurai Sanders posted:One of my French ESL students is really, really anti-immigration and (this is the weird part) somehow thought we had the perfect immigration system here, until I explained that ours is completely hosed. I still have no idea what he thought it was; can any Europeans shed some light on what they think/thought our immigration system is like? The US does tend to only allow highly educated professionals in unless you're from a neighboring country, but that's more a function of the US being separated from everyone else.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:50
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Radish posted:How is Holder personably responsible (I'm honestly curious)? This sounds like another thing the GOP is bitching about but for absolutely the wrong reasons. I think it has something to do with the "look forward, not backward" mindset that led to absolutely no one having anything bad happen to them in the aftermath of the financial crisis along with the double whammy of permanently taking it off limits in the future because "even liberal Obama doesn't think we should prosecute executives who run fraud businesses".
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Jun 3, 2014 04:54
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computer parts posted:The US does tend to only allow highly educated professionals in unless you're from a neighboring country, but that's more a function of the US being separated from everyone else. edit: wow, 70+% of French say that there are too many Arabs in the country. No wonder they just elected a bunch of right-wingers. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 04:56
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Radish posted:How is Holder personably responsible (I'm honestly curious)? This sounds like another thing the GOP is bitching about but for absolutely the wrong reasons. "Too big to jail" should've had Holder thrown out in the street. Preferably during rush hour. When you come out and basically state "yeah these people are simply above the law" you are a subhuman piece of poo poo and Obama's completely cool with it as well as giving the FCC to the telecom's biggest loving mouthpiece so yeah I can see how a book would point out those two are loving scum. Oh but we got Kagan and Sotomayor on the SCOTUS. That makes everything better. 
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Jun 3, 2014 05:09
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Evil Fluffy posted:"Too big to jail" should've had Holder thrown out in the street. Preferably during rush hour. When you come out and basically state "yeah these people are simply above the law" you are a subhuman piece of poo poo and Obama's completely cool with it as well as giving the FCC to the telecom's biggest loving mouthpiece so yeah I can see how a book would point out those two are loving scum. John McCain and Mitt Romney: totally would have brought justice to the banks and stood up to the telecom industry.
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Jun 3, 2014 05:37
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GreyjoyBastard posted:John McCain and Mitt Romney: totally would have brought justice to the banks and stood up to the telecom industry. Yeah man, I remember all those times when Evil Fluffy hailed McCain/Romney as noble heroes who would bring justice to the bankers. Man did we laugh at him back then. Oh wait.
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Jun 3, 2014 05:42
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Fried Chicken posted:The 5 guys we swapped him for were all on the docket for potential release in the next 7 months anyways. lol edit: Amazon Primed the new Taibbi book based on what I read on here Telesphorus fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 05:50
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Fried Chicken posted:It wasn't that those are the only two, its just that I knew those two. And they are both perfect examples of how a chain of small gently caress ups can lead to a bigger problem even if it isn't a reactor accident. Didn't we almost nuke North Carolina because like of a chain of failures that should never have happened?
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Jun 3, 2014 06:02
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Gen. Ripper posted:Yeah man, I remember all those times when Evil Fluffy hailed McCain/Romney as noble heroes who would bring justice to the bankers. Man did we laugh at him back then. I guess I mistook him for one of the "a plague on both your houses" unstrategically-minded folks. If his entire position is that the best we can get is a corporatist shill and that's terrible, fair enough.
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Jun 3, 2014 06:06
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Samurai Sanders posted:One of my French ESL students is really, really anti-immigration and (this is the weird part) somehow thought we had the perfect immigration system here, until I explained that ours is completely hosed. I still have no idea what he thought it was; can any Europeans shed some light on what they think/thought our immigration system is like? Refugee populations are a prononounced part of the immigrant community in many European countries; there's a misconception, I think, that the US does not have a lot of refugees from the third world. Of course the reality is that the US admits a fuckton of refugees and asylum seekers every year, but the country is so multicultural and diverse that they don't stand out as much.
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Jun 3, 2014 06:08
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America's approach to birthright citizenship is also quite different to Europe's.
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Jun 3, 2014 06:09
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Doctor Spaceman posted:America's approach to birthright citizenship is also quite different to Europe's. edit: I heard in Swizerland you can live there for generations and generations and not become a citizen, it sounds like that country would be more to this guy's liking. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 06:12
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Children born in France to residents (but not citizens - children of French citizens are also automatically French citizens) of France may request and acquire French citizenship when they become adults, but it's not automatically conferred. I believe France had looser laws on citizenship but, well, Europeans can be extremely racist.
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Jun 3, 2014 07:27
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Radish posted:How is Holder personably responsible (I'm honestly curious)? This sounds like another thing the GOP is bitching about but for absolutely the wrong reasons. So back in the day when he was a Deputy Attorney General under Janet Reno he wrote a memo. It came to be called the Holder memo. This was 1999. It outlined a number of things that could allow for more aggressive prosecution of white collar crime. Unfortunately through a series of events including Holder himself railing against certain pieces of his own writing while working for a private firm, it came to be an entirely different beast. It had one very very important piece in it quote:Prosecutors may consider the collateral consequences of a corporate criminal conviction in determining whether to charge the corporation with a criminal offense. Which is entirely reasonable on its face but it came to be the justification for the farce that occurred post crisis. At first this meant, "hey don't gut an entire company when there are five ring leaders we can charge" but escalated to "any criminal charge will hurt the company and its employees" and has even gotten to "we can't foresee the ripple effects of hurting one company on the economy at large". So now we have a wonderful justification for turning a blind eye to instances of fraud on a staggering scale. If the company is big enough and important enough well then a criminal charge might hurt the economy so its best to just take a large fine and avoid the court case. Taibbi digs into this in much much more detail. Its the first part of the book. The other bit that's making me hate the Obama administration justice system is their hyper aggression towards immigrants. There is a federal immigration rule called 287(g) that deputizes essentially anyone with a badge to arrest undocumented aliens on behalf of ICE. MA and NY tried to opt out and were told in no uncertain terms that there was no opt out. It allows local police anywhere in the country to go after immigrants for any reason. Busted tailight? Deported. Rear ended? Deported. The reason I point my anger at the Obama administration is the numbers. They've crushed all the records in a handful of years. Obama's administration has hit over a million deportations since 09/10. The expedited stipulated order of removal which allows for the ICE people to process you faster while waiving all of your rights has also been used far more. 2000-2010 they used it to deport 160,000 people. In 2011 alone they used it on 390,000. Oh and illegal aliens have no rights in the system because "Removal proceedings are civil, not criminal, and the exclusionary rule does not generally apply to them". Seriously, gently caress Holder and this justice department. Also, read the book.
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Jun 3, 2014 07:39
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Thanks for the synopsis. That's way too depressing (especially with the constant "WHY ALL THE ILLEGALS OBAMA??" meme's from the conservatives) but I should probably check it out. 
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Jun 3, 2014 11:28
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I will say I had to put the taibbi book down and go back to reading about wizards and spaceships because it was making me so pissed off I was actually losing sleep It is good, but absolutely infuriating, particularly when paired with daily business news
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Jun 3, 2014 13:24
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The only thing I find worth celebrating is the DoJ's pursuit of the VRA. Unfortunately Shelby County passed at a time when bringing the law into line with the ruling is impossible. Congress is full of utter trash, the Senate is mired in just enough filth to be paralyzed, and it's going to get worse before it gets better.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:36
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Samurai Sanders posted:Oh, France doesn't? I guess I need to read up on them. He was mostly complaining about Moroccan and Romanian immigrants. Yeah if they hate those people in particular then the US system will look nice because there's not a literal land bridge (or narrow strait) to bring people. Relentlessboredomm posted:
"Deportations" is a very loaded term; the data I saw indicated that 2/3 of the "deportations" reported under the Obama Administration were just people being turned away at the border, not immigrants getting swooped out of their houses and sent back to Mexico.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:37
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Nothing should be surprising me anymore about politics but this Un-American POW tactic is really upsetting. You're in luck! http://aattp.org/gop-psychopath-calls-for-the-execution-of-recently-released-u-s-hostage-images/ (Sorry for the ridiculous source) Add another +1 to the "X Days Without Rebuilding" sign.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:01
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Telesphorus posted:lol You wont be disappointed. Actually you will but not in the book itself.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:02
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Relentlessboredomm posted:If the company is big enough and important enough well then a criminal charge might hurt the economy so its best to just take a large fine and avoid the court case. A large fine that is orders of magnitude less than the immense profits they made off of their illegal activities because even if you fine them an amount relative to their pillaging it may have a negative impact on their financial status and  COLLATERAL CONSEQUENCES
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Jun 3, 2014 15:06
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Wait Joementum you are in Austin? Or are you already gone?FAUXTON posted:The only thing I find worth celebrating is the DoJ's pursuit of the VRA. Hasn't the DoJ been cracking down fairly hard on abuse of unpaid internships and inappropriate classification of people as independent contractors as well?
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Jun 3, 2014 15:09
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I'm going to order the Taibbi book because my blood has been coursing too slowly and work hasn't been pissing me off enough (lie), but could someone explain to me (using the book's terms if necessary) how exactly you get from "I can't break up the company because COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND JOBS" to "I can't prosecute the CEO or heads of a company because COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND JOBS"? CEOs and leadership are swapped around constantly, usually without huge job losses (not always, but still). The only way I see that trend is a fear of losing jobs coupled with the CEO's
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Jun 3, 2014 15:13
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joeburz posted:A large fine that is orders of magnitude less than the immense profits they made off of their illegal activities because even if you fine them an amount relative to their pillaging it may have a negative impact on their financial status and Politically, the conservative line is those fines are paid by the shareholders, not the people who committed the crime, making it completely unethical to fine the business at all. The neoliberal one is current one of paying back 20% or less of what was stolen because we need moral hazard, but the fine can't be too big because it is the shareholders who pay, not the ones who committed the crime I'm not even joking either, you can cruise over to forbes or fortune or bloomberg and see op eds debating it exactly on those lines. Barry Ritzholtz had a column about it the other day
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Jun 3, 2014 15:15
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And yet neither side really cares about the collateral consequences of dragnet policing and completely destroying families over petty bullshit while hundreds of millions or even into the tens of billions are pilfered yearly by a bunch of sociopaths without an iota of justice.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:19
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Fried Chicken posted:Politically, the conservative line is those fines are paid by the shareholders, not the people who committed the crime, making it completely unethical to fine the business at all. Theres some logic in this. Though they miss the part that should be "therefore the officers of the company responsible should be personally fined or thrown in jail"
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Jun 3, 2014 15:21
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Amergin posted:I'm going to order the Taibbi book because my blood has been coursing too slowly and work hasn't been pissing me off enough (lie), but could someone explain to me (using the book's terms if necessary) how exactly you get from "I can't break up the company because COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND JOBS" to "I can't prosecute the CEO or heads of a company because COLLATERAL DAMAGE AND JOBS"? He argues that the fallout from prosecuting the top brass at Arthur Anderson (it collapsed the firm and 50,000 people lost their jobs) set the policy at DoJ.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:27
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Fried Chicken posted:That is the business line. And yet there is no outrage from conservatives or neoliberals over the company officers paying themselves compensation levels exceeding many of the proposed fines. $0.50 minimum wage hikes get directly passed on to customers as higher prices or shareholderss as reduced dividend but nine-figure top leadership compensation budgets don't apparently.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:37
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Amergin posted:CEOs and leadership are swapped around constantly, usually without huge job losses (not always, but still). The only way I see that trend is a fear of losing jobs coupled with the CEO's Yeah just look at Hewlett-Packard. It's ridiculous.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:53
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Fried Chicken posted:That is the business line. This is actually a good argument though. Provided we were robustly prosecuting the individuals in the organization who were responsible. Having the company pay fines doesn't hurt the wrongdoers.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:57
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