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Doltos posted:What would be the solution to all ranged duck shooting fests? Nah, they just need to make melee units not take damage during their own attacks, and that'd probably do it. I also sort of hate strategic resources. It's super stupid when you can't use your unique unit because there's no iron anywhere near you. The really dumb thing is that they put buildings in that provide you with strategic resources, but ONLY for aluminium. I wouldn't mind seeing a "swordsmith" building that gives you 2 iron, a charcoal burner that gives you 2 coal, fuel refineries that give oil, and some kind of reactor for uranium.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:08
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I still remember a Civ3 game I played once where I couldn't win a spaceship victory because there was literally no aluminum anywhere on the map. I assume this is why the Recycling Center exists in CiV, since spaceship parts still require aluminum to build. Ideally, strategic resources should give significant benefits without being totally vital. Something like Marble's bonus to building ancient and classical wonders would probably do the trick. Cities with access to iron get a 50% discount to building swordsmen and ironclads, that kind of thing. Resource access would then go a long way to help differentiate CiV's very samey cities, too.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:35
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I don't get why they don't just let you build whatever you want, but if you don't have the resource for it, the unit has the same penalties as if you lose access to the resources after building it.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:56
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Hmm, half-price units for having the appropriate resource does sound like a pretty rad way to do it actually.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:38
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Or just do it like the Celts and Hiawatha and various early horse based UUs and let every civ with a UU that would require a resource just build the drat thing. If you don't have the resource, good luck upgrading your swarms of obsolete companion cav or whatever.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:58
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I wish my citizens could just eat all the excess horses I seem to have every single game
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Jun 2, 2014 21:01
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Doltos posted:I wish my citizens could just eat all the excess horses I seem to have every single game Trade them to supplement your gold if you're not using them. Throwing a few horses around can save you a few GPT on deals or just make you a few bucks. Leaders love horses! Historical accuracy!
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Jun 2, 2014 22:21
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Pvt.Scott posted:Leaders love horses! Historical accuracy! Catherine especially 
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Jun 2, 2014 22:31
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Anyone got tips for defending cities from human controlled longbows? The cities both give great ground to the attacker but I have plenty of time to build up. I'm thinking cavalry so I can attack from outside the longbow's range combined with crossbowmen to move one tile and fire whilst he's busy with the cavalry, but if anybody has other advice I'd be grateful.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:40
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Doltos posted:I wish my citizens could just eat all the excess horses I seem to have every single game Unneeded strategic resources can be sold for upwards to 45 gold a pop. You can gently caress with the AI by keeping an eye on whether they produce units with those resources, then refusing to renew the deal so they suffer the negative resource penalty, and then finding a new trade partner.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:47
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Gort posted:The really dumb thing is that they put buildings in that provide you with strategic resources, but ONLY for aluminium. None of the other resources are strictly necessary for what amounts to the default victory condition. I'm not saying I wouldn't have said "hey, let's add more of these" after solving the "you just lose if you've been gunning for science and find out you don't have a way to get aluminum" problem, but I can see how they got here.
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Jun 2, 2014 23:22
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Poopy Palpy posted:None of the other resources are strictly necessary for what amounts to the default victory condition. I'm not saying I wouldn't have said "hey, let's add more of these" after solving the "you just lose if you've been gunning for science and find out you don't have a way to get aluminum" problem, but I can see how they got here. Overall I'd agree, although not having iron is pretty devastating on any kind of naval-oriented map. Otherwise I can go several games without missing horses, iron, coal, or uranium. I've heard people say coal is vital but at least on standard or quick, you can tech to Radio faster than building 3 factories. It's like the naval combat is accidentally much better than the part they focused on, because the combat is fast, the AI understands it, and strategic resources matter. It just needs 2-3 more units to fill out the early-mid tree.
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Jun 3, 2014 01:04
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Antares posted:Overall I'd agree, although not having iron is pretty devastating on any kind of naval-oriented map. Otherwise I can go several games without missing horses, iron, coal, or uranium. I've heard people say coal is vital but at least on standard or quick, you can tech to Radio faster than building 3 factories. And to fix the bug where the AI gets slaughtered at sea because it has trouble moving and shooting in the same turn.
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Jun 3, 2014 09:03
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Amused Frog posted:Anyone got tips for defending cities from human controlled longbows? The cities both give great ground to the attacker but I have plenty of time to build up. Calvary all the way. When playing with human players remember that their production matches yours for the most part, so if they show up at your door with a huge army, their lands are likely to be relatively undefended. Make cavalry and pillage the poo poo out of their cities. Longbowman defense is moving in on them with 2-3 melee with 2-3 archers in tow, while flanking with cavalry. Use terrain if you can, longbowman still cannot fire over rough terrain like artillery.
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Jun 3, 2014 13:56
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Gort posted:And to fix the bug where the AI gets slaughtered at sea because it has trouble moving and shooting in the same turn. Yeah I really don't get that. It seems like it would be such an easy fix. This applies to land based ranged units too. That one change would increase AI's military ability dramatically.
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Jun 3, 2014 13:58
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How many of you guys play at any other game length than quick? Even normal is so outlandishly long, I want to finish a game in one setting without sitting a whole day on computer. Why would you want to play a game on Epic or - God forbid - Marathon? You'd play through a regular console game in that time.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:08
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dayman posted:Yeah I really don't get that. It seems like it would be such an easy fix. This applies to land based ranged units too. That one change would increase AI's military ability dramatically. A modder fixed it. Look for "Smart AI" in the workshop. Can't have that and multiplayer diplomacy enabled at the same time though.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:16
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I found out the hard way that you cannot liberate cities when playing One City Challenge mode. A few of my city state allies fell defending me in my OCC Aztec game, and when my army rolled in and re-capped the city it just poofed out of existence like any other city you capture in OCC. I really wish they would at least give you a chance to view a city on OCC before it's razed to dust, so that you get the opportunity to take any great works that might be housed there. As is, they just vanish instantly. Seems like it would work better to bring up a status box like it does in normal games, but have Annex and Puppet disabled so you can only choose to view, raze, or liberate. Also, I noticed something unusual during that game. Early on I would get a notification when my number of units exceeded my city's supply stating that I would receive a production penalty until I balanced it out. Later when the world declared war on me and I had to churn out artillery I was forced to go over my supply limit again, but when I did I no longer received a notification or saw any production penalty listed on the city screen for my capital. At one point I was even at -4 or -5 available supply, but I never saw that message again. Do you no longer have to worry about supply limits after reaching a certain era? Or was I still getting the penalty and just not seeing it?
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Jun 3, 2014 14:17
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ManOfTheYear posted:How many of you guys play at any other game length than quick? Even normal is so outlandishly long, I want to finish a game in one setting without sitting a whole day on computer. Why would you want to play a game on Epic or - God forbid - Marathon? You'd play through a regular console game in that time. The game isn't really meant to be played in one sitting. On quick you barely have time to use a unit before it's obsolete, which is problematic when city defenses automatically upgrade for free every time you gain a tech.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:18
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ManOfTheYear posted:How many of you guys play at any other game length than quick? Even normal is so outlandishly long, I want to finish a game in one setting without sitting a whole day on computer. Why would you want to play a game on Epic or - God forbid - Marathon? You'd play through a regular console game in that time. With the exception of multiplayer, I have never played Civ5 at a speed other than marathon. 1661 hours logged so far.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:18
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Pvt.Scott posted:Trade them to supplement your gold if you're not using them. Throwing a few horses around can save you a few GPT on deals or just make you a few bucks. Leaders love horses! Historical accuracy!
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Jun 3, 2014 14:30
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You can fleece the AI for 2 GPT for each of them, too. And then buy horses from someone else for your own units at 1 GPT, but that’s just silly.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:31
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SlightlyMadman posted:With the exception of multiplayer, I have never played Civ5 at a speed other than marathon. 1661 hours logged so far.  Gort posted:On quick you barely have time to use a unit before it's obsolete, which is problematic when city defenses automatically upgrade for free every time you gain a tech. Well, this is true.
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Jun 3, 2014 14:38
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ManOfTheYear posted:How many of you guys play at any other game length than quick? Even normal is so outlandishly long, I want to finish a game in one setting without sitting a whole day on computer. Why would you want to play a game on Epic or - God forbid - Marathon? You'd play through a regular console game in that time. Normal is my usual setting. Tried Epic and Marathon. The issue is everything scales up, so raw time spent in eras, building units, growing cities, and even buying units is still the same. You don't get more real time doing stuff.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:04
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The best thing about marathon for me, is that I have time to get a feel for the narrative of the game. I play about every other night, for maybe 2-3 hours in a sitting. It usually takes me a month or two to finish a game, and it really captures the feeling of playing out a world history.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:08
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Bloodly posted:Normal is my usual setting. Tried Epic and Marathon. The issue is everything scales up, so raw time spent in eras, building units, growing cities, and even buying units is still the same. You don't get more real time doing stuff. Actually, on Epic unit costs scale less than everything else.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:09
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dayman posted:Calvary all the way. When playing with human players remember that their production matches yours for the most part, so if they show up at your door with a huge army, their lands are likely to be relatively undefended. Make cavalry and pillage the poo poo out of their cities. Longbowman defense is moving in on them with 2-3 melee with 2-3 archers in tow, while flanking with cavalry. Use terrain if you can, longbowman still cannot fire over rough terrain like artillery. Please don't send your army away when you're facing an existential threat, they're often better off in your own territory killing their units before they can capture your city. The best counter to longbow is careful settling and use of rough terrain to block their fire. Spam roads over that rough terrain so that you yourself can move over it with ease, and get into firing range with your own units. Longbows are brutal. I've always wondered if you could go counteraggressive and charge in close with your own melee units, so to nullify their range advantage. Gort posted:On quick you barely have time to use a unit before it's obsolete, which is problematic when city defenses automatically upgrade for free every time you gain a tech. It does make it harder. The window of opportunity of a new unit is going to be smaller. So you'll need to be quick and decisive: have a big force of prerequisite units and a stockpile of gold on hand to immediately upgrade to the new unit.
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Jun 3, 2014 15:13
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Phobophilia posted:Please don't send your army away when you're facing an existential threat, they're often better off in your own territory killing their units before they can capture your city. I respectfully disagree. A couple horsemen, hitting luxes, roads and strategic resources in your aggressor's capital is going to amount to a hell of a lot more damage then a measly longbowman or two killed. Reduced happiness, production, and gold is the name of the game. Capture and sell workers if one is unlucky enough to be caught outside of a city. The idea is to make it too painful for them to continue the assault. The caveat here is that you need to be confident enough in your defense force and strategy to be able to hold the line, giving the effects enough time to take their toll. 1 UPT may have dulled the direct link between offense and production but ain't nobody a badass with 3/4 of their empire pillaged. As an additional bonus, an aggressor is now faced with the dilemma of peeling units from their invasion force to deal with the cavalry or to let them have their way. quote:The best counter to longbow is careful settling and use of rough terrain to block their fire. Spam roads over that rough terrain so that you yourself can move over it with ease, and get into firing range with your own units. Longbows are brutal. This is excellent advice, but you must always ensure that you have units available to fill those tiles adjacent to your city. I never recommend roads on rough terrain directly adjacent to the city because it makes it too easy to get surprised by an enemy melee unit hanging out just outside of visual range. quote:I've always wondered if you could go counteraggressive and charge in close with your own melee units, so to nullify their range advantage. Yes, indeed this is the optimal strategy for dealing with ranged units. The problem is, you need a minimum of 3 melee, all moving in at once to overwhelm their concentrated fire. dayman fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 15:27
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A nuke is a melee unit that just takes a lot of damage from attacking. That's the best longbow counter.  E: melee units should take damage from attacking stuff. Just give them attack bonuses vs ranged units or reduced retaliation damage, and make ranged units take some damage when they attack from one square away. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 18:21
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Pvt.Scott posted:A nuke is a melee unit that just takes a lot of damage from attacking. That's the best longbow counter. Because upgrading crossbowmen isn't enough of a slap in the face.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:39
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Crazy Ted posted:If you play as Pocatello you'll have about 58 excess horsies every game so this becomes very enjoyable. I kind of wish there was some later game use for iron. I mean it's not as if we've stopped using iron in real life. It's still a key component for a lot of things. Horses make more sense becoming obsolete; I have no idea what sort of modern thing you could make that would require horses and wouldn't be extremely contrived.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:43
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Just make the units be much harder counters to each other and set up a classic rock-paper-scissors thing. Ranged beats melee every time; melee beats mounted every time; mounted beats archery every time (or some other circle; you get the idea). Siege beats cities; all non-ranged beat siege. Players who produce an unbalanced military, or who fail to maneuver it properly, will be easily mopped-up by players who can produce the appropriate hard counter (or get their existing hard counters into position). In other words, it shouldn't matter if units take damage when they attack, so long as the amount of damage they both take and deal scales heavily with the type of unit they are attacking. The problem is that CiV uses a single "combat strength" stat and then doesn't apply large enough modifiers to it via special abilities/promotions. If you give Knights a "+300% strength vs. ranged units" promotion then they'll take so little damage while mopping up Crossbowmen that you won't really care. But those Knights would have to watch out for the Pikemen who have a similar promotion vs. mounted units. Right now it's, what, 50%? Unpleasant but not overwhelming enough.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:45
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I kind of wish there was some later game use for iron. I mean it's not as if we've stopped using iron in real life. It's still a key component for a lot of things. Horses make more sense becoming obsolete; I have no idea what sort of modern thing you could make that would require horses and wouldn't be extremely contrived. Glue? Edit: or just convert them to food.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:51
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ManOfTheYear posted:How many of you guys play at any other game length than quick? Even normal is so outlandishly long, I want to finish a game in one setting without sitting a whole day on computer. Why would you want to play a game on Epic or - God forbid - Marathon? You'd play through a regular console game in that time. I recently set up a game in Quick with some friends and oh man, the barbarian spawn rate is just stupidly high wrt the movement rate of units you send to repel them. Staving off barbarian has become the main focus of this game. Overall, pretty repetitive and unfun. It also seems they tend to pop even closer to cities. Unrelated question: What's the point of swapping Great Works of arts between cities (yours and the other players')? Doesn't look like it would change anything to the final output since it's always Great Writing vs Great Writing, Great Music vs Great Music, etc.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:06
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Certain theming bonuses require you to have works from different ages/civs in the building.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:07
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Zokalwe posted:I recently set up a game in Quick with some friends and oh man, the barbarian spawn rate is just stupidly high wrt the movement rate of units you send to repel them. Staving off barbarian has become the main focus of this game. Overall, pretty repetitive and unfun. It also seems they tend to pop even closer to cities. Oh, thank god it's not just me. I'm Mr. sieged-by-thirteen-barbarians. We didn't know that the Caribbeans (and other such maps) were fixed size, so our three-civ game on quick meant nothing but open space for barbs. It does cut down on early-game squabbling and allows for alliances to form/Wonders to be sniped due to diverting production.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:10
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I kind of wish there was some later game use for iron. I mean it's not as if we've stopped using iron in real life. It's still a key component for a lot of things. Horses make more sense becoming obsolete; I have no idea what sort of modern thing you could make that would require horses and wouldn't be extremely contrived. Adding a perk to the factory that you get a 1% boost when constructing buildings for every iron you have access to with a hard cap of 10% would be neat. I'd probably rage about it in terms of crippling gameplay, but making all later machine units require oil would sure as hell make sense. It's not like availability of aluminum would in any way limit our ability to mobilize aircraft and armor before availability of oil. Introduce new building like a refinery that doubles/triples your sovereign reserves of oil within range of that city and watch as a series of proxy wars and city state coups rock the late game dynamic when everyone is fighting over oil for their rocket artillery, SAMs, mobile infantry, tanks and aircraft. Kind of like real life. Only GDR's will continue to be free of the oil requirement.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:12
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I kind of wish there was some later game use for iron. I mean it's not as if we've stopped using iron in real life. It's still a key component for a lot of things. Horses make more sense becoming obsolete; I have no idea what sort of modern thing you could make that would require horses and wouldn't be extremely contrived. Well, the tile yeilds themselves represent the non-military uses, so that's already accounted for. The reason why they're no longer a required resource, even though you technically would need iron to make steel for guns and tanks, is that modern mining techniques make resources like iron so plentiful that the game no longer needs to account for it. I believe this was even specifically stated in the civilopedia in civ3 with the saltpeter resource for why it stopped being a requirement at Riflemen IIRC.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:13
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Zokalwe posted:Unrelated question: What's the point of swapping Great Works of arts between cities (yours and the other players')? Doesn't look like it would change anything to the final output since it's always Great Writing vs Great Writing, Great Music vs Great Music, etc. Buildings which have multiple Great Work slots (museums and various Wonders) have what's called a theming bonus. Basically, if you meet certain conditions, you get bonus culture and tourism out of the building. For instance, the Sistine Chapel wants you to have two works of art from the same civilization and era. So, if you put two Roman Renaissance works in there, you get +2 culture and tourism, but if there's a Venetian Medieval piece and a Korean Industrial piece, you don't get a bonus. Trading works makes this possible, especially with the buildings that want you to have works from different civilizations.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:17
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Minority Deport posted:Buildings which have multiple Great Work slots (museums and various Wonders) have what's called a theming bonus. Basically, if you meet certain conditions, you get bonus culture and tourism out of the building. For instance, the Sistine Chapel wants you to have two works of art from the same civilization and era. So, if you put two Roman Renaissance works in there, you get +2 culture and tourism, but if there's a Venetian Medieval piece and a Korean Industrial piece, you don't get a bonus. Trading works makes this possible, especially with the buildings that want you to have works from different civilizations. Oh, I see, thanks. I should do my homework before attempting a type of victory I'm not used to. Not that it would change a lot, Poland and Portugal are pretty much impossible to catch up with now, so this is going to end up in an orgy of nuclear fire to reduce their industrial output to give me the time to snatch a science victory.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:23
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