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30k question: How much would I be shooting myself in the foot if I ran a Talon of three Contemptors with Multi-melta and power fist/heavy flamers? Wanted something thematic but awesome for my Salamanders. (I'm probably going to magnetise them regardless but it'd be cool to hear what loadouts people have had success with.)
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Jun 3, 2014 15:25
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Does it have to be 3? I think 2 would be fine but 3 is a lot of points depending on what you're playing at. The actual load out is probably fine (probably not min-max ideal) but S6 or whatever the heavy flamers would be is solid. What's the rest of the list?
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Jun 3, 2014 16:51
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Cataphract posted:What'd a 1500 point sisters look like nowadays? I'm (foolishly) considering putting one together. I've inherited a few models from a mate and I've always liked the look of the army so I figure I can just trawl eBay, gumtree etc. and slowly add to the collection over time. With 7e dawning it's hard to say exactly, but I don't think Sisters make out much better than before. If we assume most of the 6E build rules hold true (which is a reasonably fair assumption, as their sole viable strategy got a little better and little else changed) you'll basically see three Exorcists, three squads of Dominions in Multimelta Immolators (weapon loadouts will vary between four Melta and four Flamer), and filing the remaining points with Battle Sister squads in Multimelta Immolators with Flamers/Heavy Flamers. Some variants will replace one of the mech'd Battle Sister squads with a big blob of girls on foot led by Jacobus and/or Celestine, and with wider access to ally options you may see them allying in GK or IG for some shenanigans (like a Librarian giving them Shrouding, Sanctity, or Hammerhand.) Naramyth posted:I've been kicking around some new lists now that I've been getting my head around 7th. I think GK MSU razorspam might be viable now that tanks can score, they help out with the casting pool, and you can share transports with battle bros. Mmm. I don't hate the GK half of it, but the Psybacks should probably be Rhinos instead- those 75pt Razorbacks are pretty fragile and a Rhino with a Psyker on top casting Psychic Shriek out is gonna be as good or better against infantry units. I ran a Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator for melee defense/cover-busting before, but maybe with Shriek that's not as needed? I still think the Dread is preferable over the Chapter Smasher in terms of countercharge units, though, there's just such a vast difference in price. Mindstrike Missiles off of the GK 'Raven are also probably better than the SM one these days, which frees up any real need to bring in the SM half of things- you could easily field something else instead. Purifiers in Rhinos would also be worth looking at- two Psycannons and Cleansing Flame out of the top hatch every turn is nothing to sneeze at. GK is all about generating lots of warp charge and casting WC1 spells with 1-3 dice, I think. Combined with their innate psychic protections (Brotherhood, The Aegis) it makes them all but invulnerable to most offensive spells and gives them a fighting chance at breaking a important Blessing/Summon spell. Obviously they have problems with FMCs and Wave Serpents, but if you can address those I think you end up with some solid lists.
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Jun 3, 2014 17:10
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Naramyth posted:Word. I don't have my codex on me, but am 99% sure psybolts do not work with Assault Cannons. Also you're going to want a psyker in all of those henchmen squads.
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Jun 3, 2014 18:05
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AgentF posted:What is there in the way of US wargaming stores that will deliver to Australia? Hey mate, I am late to this but ignore everyone who said you can't order outside of Australia because you can: This is who I use and some friends of mine order from as well. They unbox the sprues to save transport costs: http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/discount_games_store/m.html?rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=2
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Jun 3, 2014 18:14
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raverrn posted:I don't have my codex on me, but am 99% sure psybolts do not work with Assault Cannons. Also you're going to want a psyker in all of those henchmen squads. "A model equipped with psyboly ammunition counts the Strength of its shots as being one point higher than normal if it is firing one of the following weapons: bolt pistol, boltgun, storm bolter, heavy bolter, hurricane bolter, autocannon or assault cannon. E.g. an assault cannon would be Strength 7 rather than Strength 6, if the firer had psybolt ammunition." 
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Jun 3, 2014 19:02
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Is it just me or are Flamestorm Cannons finally twin-linked for Salamanders? They're now listed under "Flamer" in the weapons section of "The Rules."
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Jun 3, 2014 19:07
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Slimnoid posted:"A model equipped with psyboly ammunition counts the Strength of its shots as being one point higher than normal if it is firing one of the following weapons: bolt pistol, boltgun, storm bolter, heavy bolter, hurricane bolter, autocannon or assault cannon. E.g. an assault cannon would be Strength 7 rather than Strength 6, if the firer had psybolt ammunition." Well poo poo. It's good to be Grey I suppose. The point about psyker henchmen stands though.
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Jun 3, 2014 19:08
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PierreTheMime posted:Is it just me or are Flamestorm Cannons finally twin-linked for Salamanders? They're now listed under "Flamer" in the weapons section of "The Rules." Vehicles don't have the Chapter Tactics rule, so no, they still aren't twin-linked.
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Jun 3, 2014 19:15
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SRM posted:This is pretty much what my game club is like and it rules. Game store communities can be good but since they can't really turn anyone away like a club can, they're not quite so choosy and it can be more hit and miss. This 1000% yes! Some really great points for why starting a gaming club is awesome. Even in the US. I hadn't considered some of this.
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Jun 3, 2014 19:19
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Slimnoid posted:Vehicles don't have the Chapter Tactics rule, so no, they still aren't twin-linked. Ugh, keep forgetting about the vehicle exclusion. :/
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Jun 3, 2014 19:23
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AbusePuppy posted:I don't hate the GK half of it, but the Psybacks should probably be Rhinos instead- those 75pt Razorbacks are pretty fragile and a Rhino with a Psyker on top casting Psychic Shriek out is gonna be as good or better against infantry units. I ran a Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator for melee defense/cover-busting before, but maybe with Shriek that's not as needed? I still think the Dread is preferable over the Chapter Smasher in terms of countercharge units, though, there's just such a vast difference in price. Mindstrike Missiles off of the GK 'Raven are also probably better than the SM one these days, which frees up any real need to bring in the SM half of things- you could easily field something else instead. Purifiers in Rhinos would also be worth looking at- two Psycannons and Cleansing Flame out of the top hatch every turn is nothing to sneeze at. Bah. I only skimmed the FAQ. I was thinking the transports and dreads still had Fortitude. Then yeah Purifers and pskyers in rhinos with dreadknight and Stormraven support. I still think there should be some more AA in the equation but I'll have to do list building later.
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Jun 3, 2014 20:44
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Fuegan posted:30k question: How much would I be shooting myself in the foot if I ran a Talon of three Contemptors with Multi-melta and power fist/heavy flamers? Wanted something thematic but awesome for my Salamanders. Mortis Contemptors can deal out a terrifying amount of firepower, particularly with 2x Kheres assault cannons.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:21
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Naramyth posted:Bah. I only skimmed the FAQ. I was thinking the transports and dreads still had Fortitude. Then yeah Purifers and pskyers in rhinos with dreadknight and Stormraven support. I still think there should be some more AA in the equation but I'll have to do list building later. With something like two Stormravens, two Dreadnoughts, and two Purifier units you're doing relatively alright for AA; they have to choose to Jink before knowing how many hits you get, which makes your "throw dice at the problem" guns a lot more effective in that respect. Sadly, there are almost zero effective ways to bring anti-flyer in the game at this point, bar Forge World.
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Jun 3, 2014 21:40
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Is anyone here good at math and percentages? If I have a chart of a 1-6. What are the odds that with 3 Rolls I would get a six. I would get to roll 4 seperate times. The I would get 12 More individual rolls. If you are wondering, I'm trying to figure out the possession odds on a army with 6 Pink Horrors , 4 Heralds, 3 Imperial Psykers, 3 Wyrdvane squads.
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Jun 3, 2014 23:02
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Just did our second game of 7th edition. We deliberately used non-spam, fluffy lists, with equal Psyker points/warp charge dice. I used Typhus and a standard Sorcerer for 3...and at the other player's insistence I used the Malefic powers and successfully summoned 10 Bloodletters and then a Herald of Khorne on the same turn. Unfortunately the Bloodletters then got smashed by a Vindicator before they could even look at anything sideways! We're getting used to the Psyker phase now, it'll be a while before we go through all the Warlord Traits and various Psyker effects to see what's great and what sucks and what's just okay. Still had a few laughs even though I got destroyed, 10 VP to 1. The objective cards weren't coming out well for me, and we randomly chose the Maelstrom game that has you draw as many cards as you have objective points. One thing we do have to get used to is Force weapons and powering them up just in case, because an enemy that's 20" or so away can still get into charge range, if they're in an assault vehicle!
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Jun 3, 2014 23:05
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How did you like Typhus? I think he's cool as hell but being relegated to the Nurgle tree is/was miserable.
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Jun 3, 2014 23:09
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Hollismason posted:Is anyone here good at math and percentages? This post is somewhat non-sensical but let me take a stab. Three separate rolls means you will get a six 50% of the time. With four similar such rolls, you will average two Possessions. With each individual roll of 12 you will have a ~17% chance of rolling Possession. So over 12 rolls you will average two more Possessions. Four Possessions.
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Jun 3, 2014 23:12
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panascope posted:How did you like Typhus? I think he's cool as hell but being relegated to the Nurgle tree is/was miserable. Fluffy-wise I like him, I'm not a 'competitive' or club player at all, I just like him because he looks cool and his weapon is called Manreaper! But...he's got no shooting, so if he's assaulted he can't overwatch, and marching him with plague zombies means he's super slow but he has lots of ablative wounds. I prefer to deep strike him with what I call his bodyguards, which are Mark of Nurgle Terminators. So far I haven't really had any effective use of his psyker powers, but I'm not really tactically-minded. 7th is much more tactical than 6th, I think, and most of the players in my little group will suffer for that. The only one who min-maxes stuff is the guy I played tonight, and he always creams us with his Dark Angels. We'll be playing again tomorrow, but he'll be using a Knight or two (I'm building and painting his 3 Knights) - I'll probably insist on having a Chaos Knight just to make things interesting!
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Jun 3, 2014 23:15
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Hollismason posted:Is anyone here good at math and percentages? A bit less than 50% of getting a 6 on three die. For off the cuff die rolls like that I usually divide each die into D3s. So with three die you can figure 1-2, 3-4, 5-6. Rolling the 5-6 is 50% of the time a 6. Since dice doesn't actually work this way factor in a bit less. The actual number is ~42%. http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/525641/chance-of-getting-six-in-three-dice
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Jun 3, 2014 23:15
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Easiest way of determining it for multiple rolls is finding how likely it is to not get it and subtracting that from one. Odds of getting Possession on ML1 is 1 - (5/6) = 1/6 Odds of getting Possession on ML2 is 1 - (5/6*4/5) = 1/3 Odds of getting Possession on ML3 is 1 - (5/6*4/5*3/4) = 1/2 Odds of getting at least one possession with 4 ML3s and 12 ML1s is 1 - ((1/2)^4*(5/6)^12). I'm on my phone so plug that into Google or something.
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Jun 3, 2014 23:54
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MasterSlowPoke posted:I'm on my phone so plug that into Google or something. 99.3%
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Jun 3, 2014 23:57
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Thanks I am still working on math percentages for my FAQ on Daemons and summoning stuff and I jsut do not get it at all. I am dumb:(. What's weird is I do math all day for a living and percentages elude me. Basically what I am trying to figure is the following. Herald of Tzeentch x 4 @ level 3 what is eachs percentage chance to get Possession. What is the percentage chance to get possession overall? Pink Horrors roll once what are the odds per unit, what are the odds at 2 , 3, 4, 5, 6. Imperial Psykers are Level 2 what are there odds of rolling possession on each one. What are the odds of 3 overall rolling for it. Wyrdvane Psykers are level 1, they roll once so they would be just like Pink Horrors. So what is the point of all of this? Okay here is my problem, I can see math in my head. Like I can kind of say " Oh well if you do this then you get this". I have a hard time writing it out. My discovery and "thesis" if you want to call it that is basically Possession Spam. Why? Because Wyrdvanes, Pink Horrors, and level 1s are ultimately BETTER for Possession. You want more of them. Why? Because Perils doesn't kill them it just removes one model. So their point efficiency is "better", Killing off a Level 3 for possession is bad. It's a level 3. So with in the army you want to increase your odds of rolling for possession. Also,Wyrdvanes in a group of 8 are awesome as Malefic summoners, because Perils unless you roll a one. Doesn't affect them. So Wyrdvanes are really really good to have for Psykers that summon. Yes I am a weirdoz.
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Jun 4, 2014 00:00
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I gave you the chances that any particular mastery level dude gets a particular power, so you know the chances for a Herald or a Wyrdvane or whatever. To determine if any in a group of psykers get at least one particular power, you multiply the chances that they don't get the power together and subtract that from one. Example, the chance that three ML2 psykers and one ML3 psyker get at least one possession is 1 - (1/2*1/2*1/2*5/6) or 43/48, or about 88 percent.
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Jun 4, 2014 01:43
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Did they actually fix Sanctioned Psykers/Weirdvaynes so that the unit doesn't explode when one of them hear's a voice?
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Jun 4, 2014 01:53
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Yes I just wanted to make myself clear on what I was doing. Basically the army is Primary = Astra Militarium 1 HQ Tank Commander w/ some tanks 3 Level 2 Psykers 3 Wyrdvane Squads 2 Troops? Fast Attack Bah H. Support Manticore Manticore 2 to 3 Wyverns Allied Daemons 4 Heralds x Pink Horror Squads. Just trying to figure out very specific points That's 12 + 8 + 3 , and whatever the Pink Horrors turn out. I just need to sit down and figure it out. The only goal is to get off as many Possession as possible on the first turn and hammer the enemy with a "windblower" army. Trying to fit it into 1850. Value wise Heralds and Primaris Psykers are most efficent as they provide the most MLs for points. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 01:53
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raverrn posted:Well poo poo. It's good to be Grey I suppose. That's literally how we get our 'Psycannon' options on vehicles, because none of them have it as an upgrade. Funnily enough, the FW Psyback in IA2 2nd ed is 10 points more than the one we can Mcguyver out of our 5th ed codex e: Oh god, our local BA player is getting riled up about GKs having access to "no-name librarians that have the same mastery level as Mephiston". I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd assume that a dedicated Librarian in a chapter where everyone is a psyker would be better than one of the 10, maybe 15 psykers in a chapter with no psychic talent outside of that handful of specially trained and recruited Marines. HiveCommander fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 02:28
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HiveCommander posted:That's literally how we get our 'Psycannon' options on vehicles, because none of them have it as an upgrade. Funnily enough, the FW Psyback in IA2 2nd ed is 10 points more than the one we can Mcguyver out of our 5th ed codex loving hell, this just resonated with me. The loving GREY KNIGHTS codex is two editions old now. This game used to move a hell of a lot more slowly.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:41
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Am I reading the GK FAQ wrong or are henchman psykers basically like buying warp charges for 10 point a pop? Oh no I have to buy Coteaz first to get them. Not even a tax for that beautiful bastard.
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Jun 4, 2014 02:54
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Monoliths posted:Am I reading the GK FAQ wrong or are henchman psykers basically like buying warp charges for 10 point a pop? Oh no I have to buy Coteaz first to get them. Not even a tax for that beautiful bastard. That beautiful bastard even gives you two warp charges on his own. It looks like Henchmen psykers are a Brotherhood so you only get one warp charge per henchman unit with a psyker still alive in it, but when you can take henchmen in units as small as 3, you're getting each warp charge for less than 30 points.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:01
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Hollismason posted:Yes I just wanted to make myself clear on what I was doing. I thought Daemons and Imperial factions can't ally now?
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Jun 4, 2014 03:15
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Wait didn't Inquisition get FAQed that the Henchmen lost Psychic Barrage? I can't remember if they did or not. Anyway yes they are super cheap. BULBASAUR posted:I thought Daemons and Imperial factions can't ally now? Everyone can ally now basically*, your just treated as Come the Apocalypse can't set up with in 12 of each other during deployment and you get the Desperate Allies disadvantage. *even Tyranids!
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Jun 4, 2014 03:26
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Post 9-11 User posted:Did they actually fix Sanctioned Psykers/Weirdvaynes so that the unit doesn't explode when one of them hear's a voice? They're all Brotherhood, so no exploding units. Monoliths posted:Am I reading the GK FAQ wrong or are henchman psykers basically like buying warp charges for 10 point a pop? Oh no I have to buy Coteaz first to get them. Not even a tax for that beautiful bastard. 10pts for adding a warp charge to a unit, yes, and a roll on the Telepathy table hoping to get Invisibility, Shrouding, or Psychic Shriek at the worst. They're kinda really good. BULBASAUR posted:I thought Daemons and Imperial factions can't ally now? They're Come the Apocalypse, but in theory anyone can ally with anyone, just with varying levels of penalties.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:27
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AbusePuppy posted:They're all Brotherhood, so no exploding units. Where the hell is it that they get Telepathy? I'm literally looking at the FAQ page right now. Who's the guy that lets you take as many Henchman as you want?
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Jun 4, 2014 03:29
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BULBASAUR posted:I thought Daemons and Imperial factions can't ally now? They just have to obey the allies rules. Can't deploy within 12" of each other and have to take a test if they start a turn within 6" of each other that makes it so they can't do anything if they roll a 1. The chart got more restrictive but allies as a whole are a lot more flexible now. I take it Astropaths are worth taking in IG command squads now? A warp charge and two Telepathy powers for 30 points. my kinda ape fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 03:29
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Hollismason posted:Where the hell is it that they get Telepathy? I'm literally looking at the FAQ page right now. Coteaz is the guy who lets you take units of Henchmen as troops. He's super-good. In the first page of the GK FAQ, it list characters who are allowed to roll on psychic discipline tables (as opposed to having fixed powers), which includes Librarians, Coteaz, Grand Masters, Draigo, and Psykers.
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Jun 4, 2014 03:48
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For those who were following my FLGS Campaign drama a few days ago, I just wanted to check in. We played our first campaign game tonight - and I'm so satisfied... The game was awful - I maintain that the cards are still broken - but I was on the winning side of it. After convincing the group not to house-rule the scoring drop pods "until we know if they're broken" - I was able to score two objectives with the pod and the unit that came out of it on turn one. (I only had two pods total, the second didn't even come in on turn two). By the end of turn two, we were up 8 to 1. It was satisfying to show that the cards can be a little one-sided with a bad draw. I also had the warlord trait that lets you discard from your first hand if you want, which netted me three cashable cards on turn one and two. Needless to say, it probably wasn't fun for the other guy, but it did allow me to illustrate my point, that the tabletop didn't matter, because I drew the right cards. We would've had a nice close game if the objective cards hadn't broken it from the onset. Anyway, I think I have some of the group rethinking the Maelstrom cards now, which is good... And I won the first game of our campaign! (So that's good!)
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Jun 4, 2014 04:05
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ghetto wormhole posted:I take it Astropaths are worth taking in IG command squads now? A warp charge and two Telepathy powers for 30 points.
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Jun 4, 2014 04:07
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Tuxedo Jack posted:Anyway, I think I have some of the group rethinking the Maelstrom cards now, which is good... And I won the first game of our campaign! (So that's good!) Glad things are working out for ya, more or less. Keep us updated on how it goes...it'll be interesting to observe the evolution of your group's meta, even if from afar.
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Jun 4, 2014 04:42
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Fuegan posted:Huh, just noticed that a lot of the Sisters stuff on the website is now listed as no longer available. Fancy that. It really strikes me that there is a lot of Sisters art in the new rulebooks. Are they going to become a real, actual army with a real codex and models? One of the few armies I'd actually take as allies.
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