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Wasn't it also the Tyrells that laid siege to Stannis during Robert's Rebellion? Dude must want to kill every one of those motherfuckers.
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Jun 4, 2014 06:36
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Bobo the Red posted:She looks like she has a skin disease. She could have gotten it recently. Westeros is hosed but there are probably tons of people not drowning their kids at the first sign of illness. I may be wrong but I thought the show said she was born that way? And also, I was meaning "royalty". Like, Tywin let Tyrion live, but hates the poo poo out of him. Stannis likes his daughter. That puts him pretty high up on the list for me. I doubt this show will have a truly "unhappy" ending (like the White Walkers killing everyone or someone truly awful sitting on the Iron Throne and all the good people dead). I think that someone reasonably decent will end up on the Throne. In my dreams it would be Jaime through some crazy rule-bending, because the irony of "from Kingslayer to King" is cool, though more realistic options are Stannis, Jon Snow, Dany, hell even Bran would work. Awesome option: Gendry, with Arya as head of the Kingsguard 
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Jun 4, 2014 06:36
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precision posted:I may be wrong but I thought the show said she was born that way? And also, I was meaning "royalty". Like, Tywin let Tyrion live, but hates the poo poo out of him. Stannis likes his daughter. That puts him pretty high up on the list for me. She fell ill when she was really little to a fairly lethal disease, which she survived, albeit scarred for life.
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Jun 4, 2014 06:42
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precision posted:I may be wrong but I thought the show said she was born that way? And also, I was meaning "royalty". Like, Tywin let Tyrion live, but hates the poo poo out of him. Stannis likes his daughter. That puts him pretty high up on the list for me. Tywin hates Tyrion because his wife died. He is far too pragmatic for the dwarf thing to really have stood in the way. Stannis likes his daughter... which he should do. He also murdered his brother, burned his brother in law (and countless others), cheated on his wife, and may be about to sacrifice said daughter he loves, all for his own gain. Really great dude. Sansa would be the best queen (only remaining sane Stark, married to Tyrion). Also Jaime is decent now? Saying that, and then mentioning Bran in the same sentence is funny. I feel like Dany is gonna get worse. She's not really decent; she means well, but so did the Mad King. so does Melisandre (seemingly). Arya is a monster, and is only gonna get worse; the Kingsguard is far too peaceful for her.
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Jun 4, 2014 06:44
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Bobo the Red posted:That's the kinda funny thing, badass or not, Stannis, Renly, or Robb wouldn't have stood a loving chance against the Lannisters 1 on 1. Robb kept trying to get the Lannisters into open battle because he could take them if they would let him.
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Jun 4, 2014 06:44
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Speleothing posted:Robb kept trying to get the Lannisters into open battle because he could take them if they would let him. Because there was a southern front that had to be fought over too.
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Jun 4, 2014 06:46
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I have a hard time seeing Stannis without seeing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaqmBOyNCuE
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Jun 4, 2014 06:55
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Bobo the Red posted:Arya is a monster, and is only gonna get worse; the Kingsguard is far too peaceful for her. My dream for her is she'll meet up with Brieanne and go over to Essos to find her old trainer and the faceless men again. So she gets to train under the Hound, Brieanne, first trainer dude and the facelessmen assassins. Not going to happen though as fighting takes years to learn and I doubt we'll see any big time skips or montages.
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Jun 4, 2014 07:32
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Woden posted:My dream for her is she'll meet up with Brieanne and go over to Essos to find her old trainer and the faceless men again. So she gets to train under the Hound, Brieanne, first trainer dude and the facelessmen assassins. That's an awful happy story you're telling yourself.
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Jun 4, 2014 07:45
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Alternatively, Stannis is basically Stalin. Speaking of Russian cult of personality types, am I the only person who does not think of Putin EVERY time they see Roose Bolton? If he's never played the guy before, he needs to.
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Jun 4, 2014 07:49
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Bobo the Red posted:Also Jaime is decent now? Saying that, and then mentioning Bran in the same sentence is funny. Yes, Jaime is a pretty decent guy now. He sure did some awful things, but if you don't think he's a pretty decent guy these days between his chats with Tyrion and his downright suicidally noble treatment of Brienne I dunno what to tell you. Dude has grown up a bit. Agree about Dany, I mean, yes she's batshit crazy but at the same time I don't see her being outright harmful in the way the Mad King was. At least, not until 20 or 30 years from now, well after the show is done. I don't think Arya is a monster. She is just really hosed up. She still has a code, if she were really a "monster" she would have not cared about the Hound deceiving the farmer etc. She still thinks only people who "deserve" to be killed should be killed.
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Jun 4, 2014 07:49
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pfizerman posted:That's dumb, on both counts. For one, don't trust anything Littlefinger says. His motivations are incredibly well hidden, to both show watchers and book readers. The only thing you can trust is that he wants undermine and destroy entrenched power. Chaos reigns. Second, Sansa's entire evolution has been from naive girl who worships the idea of royalty and nobility, to having the wool ripped from her eyes by a cynical burn victim, a gay knight, a monstrous queen, and a lunatic adolescent psychopath. To think she's still a "laa dee daa knights and fairies" idiot is to be completely blind to the most changed character over the course of the show. I keep saying she's a fantastic character but no one listens to me. She's been my favorite since I read the first book in like 1867 or something. I love Sansa. Everyone should love Sansa. Also Sophie Turner is doing a really awesome job and doesn't get enough credit. precision posted:Yes, Jaime is a pretty decent guy now. He sure did some awful things, but if you don't think he's a pretty decent guy these days between his chats with Tyrion and his downright suicidally noble treatment of Brienne I dunno what to tell you. Dude has grown up a bit.
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Jun 4, 2014 07:52
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sforzacio posted:I thought Stannis was a chode until Blackwater. You can't not-respect a dude who leads a siege from the front. Not only that, but he was one of the only people to breach the walls after winning several individual combats and had to practically be ripped away to retreat. Dude definitely proved he wasn't all talk. the posted:She just wanted to finally get rid of the friendzoned neckbeard. She posted on E/N what to do about him, and they all told her to Sever. the kawaiiest posted:He raped his sister next to their son's corpse. You almost have to pretend that didn't happen. As it's well known now, it's not how it was supposed to play out in either the source material OR the script, but somehow the director & editor "accidentally" shot a freaking rape scene. That was not supposed to be a rape scene. As such the writing will never reflect what the hell happened there, and it's best to pretend it didn't probably. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 07:55
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pfizerman posted:That's dumb, on both counts. For one, don't trust anything Littlefinger says. His motivations are incredibly well hidden, to both show watchers and book readers. The only thing you can trust is that he wants undermine and destroy entrenched power. Chaos reigns. Second, Sansa's entire evolution has been from naive girl who worships the idea of royalty and nobility, to having the wool ripped from her eyes by a cynical burn victim, a gay knight, a monstrous queen, and a lunatic adolescent psychopath. To think she's still a "laa dee daa knights and fairies" idiot is to be completely blind to the most changed character over the course of the show. When Littlefinger says, "Chaos is a ladder," I trust he means it. He's not destroying entrenched power and sowing chaos because he hates power and loves chaos. He's doing those things because they are means to an end. I definitely do not see Sansa as the starry-eyed innocent she was in the first season. I think her experiences with those in power have made her think that having some of her own might be a good idea. I'm crediting her with agency (something she has been sorely lacking) and also ambition. She's not going to blindly do what Petyr tells her, she's going to have ideas of her own, as we've already seen. She knows she has some power over him both sexually and because her old family name will lend him some credibility with the other nobles and she's showing signs of being confident enough to use it. Would carry printer for Sansa.
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Jun 4, 2014 08:05
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Blazing Ownager posted:You almost have to pretend that didn't happen. As it's well known now, it's not how it was supposed to play out in either the source material OR the script, but somehow the director & editor "accidentally" shot a freaking rape scene. That was not supposed to be a rape scene. Even if you take the intent of the scriptwriter and the source material into consideration, he still banged his sister next to the corpse of their dead kid.
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Jun 4, 2014 08:06
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I really liked that The Hound referred to Arya as his "traveling companion" and actually seemed...happy to do so. The Adventures of Arya and The Hound are awesome 
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Jun 4, 2014 08:07
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Jun 4, 2014 08:37
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precision posted:Yes, Jaime is a pretty decent guy now. He sure did some awful things, but if you don't think he's a pretty decent guy these days between his chats with Tyrion and his downright suicidally noble treatment of Brienne I dunno what to tell you. Dude has grown up a bit. I love Tyrion, but you can't count that as Jaime being decent. That's his brother, and probably the only person out there that truly cares for him. Cersei's love is more that she loves herself and Jaime is as close as she can come to loving herself/ her love is at best, a tainted love (she was wild for godamn Joffrey of all people). Why the hell wouldn't Jaime chat him up? Jaime was decent to Brienne, yes (though the only time it was suicidally dangerous was when he was essentially suicidal from sickness and depression from the severed hand). He also tried to murder a 10 year old, as well as brutally killing all of Ned's men in the streets of King's Landing (remember, this was before there was a war; Jaime straight up committed murder). He's not doing lovely things now, but could just be a lack of opportunity, since he's at home with his twisted as family. He still has a long path to be anywhere near redeemed. I will wait until he has to make a hard choice (harder than getting mean looks from Cersei for talking to Tyrion). Jerusalem posted:Even if you take the intent of the scriptwriter and the source material into consideration, he still banged his sister next to the corpse of their dead kid. If ever there was a corpse that deserved disrespect, it was Joffrey. Hell, if he'd been into sex, it's something he would've been proud to try next to the next Stark corpse he got. It was a very fitting tribute. Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jun 4, 2014 |
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Jun 4, 2014 09:04
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Blazing Ownager posted:You almost have to pretend that didn't happen. As it's well known now, it's not how it was supposed to play out in either the source material OR the script, but somehow the director & editor "accidentally" shot a freaking rape scene. That was not supposed to be a rape scene. Yeah, I know, but I just can't accept that it wasn't supposed to be rape. I mean someone wrote Cersei's lines, right? Which were mostly "no" and "not here" and "please no, not here"? And then they filmed that scene the way they did, with her saying those lines and fighting him every step of the way, and they're telling us "oh lol sorry that wasn't meant to be rape"? Either they're virgins whose only idea of what sex is like comes from watching too much Japanese porn or they're full of poo poo. There is no way that scene was written, rehearsed, shot and edited without someone, somewhere, saying "um, this not-rape scene kinda looks like rape".
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Jun 4, 2014 09:14
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One thing I do like about Stannis is that he loves his daughter, so I guess he does have that going for him.
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Jun 4, 2014 09:18
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precision posted:Yes, Jaime is a pretty decent guy now. He sure did some awful things, but if you don't think he's a pretty decent guy these days between his chats with Tyrion and his downright suicidally noble treatment of Brienne I dunno what to tell you. Dude has grown up a bit. Being nice to his brother and saving the maiden fair from the bear do not make Jaime a decent guy. Pretty much all he does these days is mope about his missing hand and lust after his sister who no longer seems interested in him. When Brienne reminded him of his promise about the Stark girls he basically punted. Dude still has issues. Dany is all about the fyre and blud. Don't think she really cares how many innocents die as long as she gets the throne. You're right about Arya though. Hit the nail on the head there.
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Jun 4, 2014 09:23
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Bobo the Red posted:If ever there was a corpse that deserved disrespect, it was Joffrey. Hell, if he'd been into sex, it's something he would've been proud to try next to the next Stark corpse he got. It was a very fitting tribute. 
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Jun 4, 2014 09:41
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Bobo the Red posted:I love Tyrion, but you can't count that as Jaime being decent. That's his brother, and probably the only person out there that truly cares for him. Cersei's love is more that she loves herself and Jaime is as close as she can come to loving herself/ her love is at best, a tainted love (she was wild for godamn Joffrey of all people). Why the hell wouldn't Jaime chat him up? I agree, and there's something about redemption in game of thrones that bothers me. You see it with Theon too. Redemption isn't about just having the audience feel sorry for you, or suffering enough that it 'balances out' what you did. Nor is it about suddenly being nice to Tyrion so people realise you aren't a total poo poo. Redemption should come from regret and trying to atone. But we don't see Jaime, say, sending a party north to find out if Bran is still alive, or doing anything for the family of the Lannister he killed while escaping. Theon happily rapes and pillages the coast, and gnerally acts likd a poo poo well before then. Coveniently, he only realises he did something wrong when it leads to being captured and tortured.
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Jun 4, 2014 10:02
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The Duggler posted:He's the only actual legit King I hate this argument because the show constantly hammers home the point that there's basically no such thing as a legit King, also on top of this Stannis is actually a pretty poo poo guy monster on a stick posted:He's Just which is worth +10 opinion. He's also the only person who actually seems to give a poo poo about doing his drat job, seeing as he listened to Castle Black's call for help when nobody else was. Accretionist posted:He seems to actually believe in institutions and servicing responsibilities as opposed to just using them to achieve personal goals like wealth, power and an unlimited supply of hookers to mutilate. Away all Goats posted:Davos believes in Stannis, that should be good enough for you Plus Stannis' logo is some clipart level heart on top of a flaming stag poo poo
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Jun 4, 2014 10:07
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Too soon.  For real though, Pascal was great in that role and I hope he gets more roles in the future because of it.
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Jun 4, 2014 10:26
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:
He also gave Davos his house and welcomed him into his arms and lands. Davos has never loved or respected another man like he does Stannis. Of all the bad poo poo Stannis has done, his dealing with Davos is not one of them. He did not punish Davos for stealing for him, but for an entire life of crime before then -- and by "punishing" him, he wiped his record clean like no-one else would.
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Jun 4, 2014 10:30
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It's good were now in the realms where us filthy book readers can speculate along with the unsullied. So what exactly was Littlefingers get out of jail free card if Sansa hasn't decided chip in? Because it certainly didn't seem he was counting on it.
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Jun 4, 2014 10:56
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the kawaiiest posted:Yeah, I know, but I just can't accept that it wasn't supposed to be rape. I mean someone wrote Cersei's lines, right? Which were mostly "no" and "not here" and "please no, not here"? And then they filmed that scene the way they did, with her saying those lines and fighting him every step of the way, and they're telling us "oh lol sorry that wasn't meant to be rape"? There's literally no way it wasn't a rape scene. It totally was. But it wasn't supposed to be, and that's the key. If anything they need to look into not using that director/editor again because holy poo poo I've never seen anything miss the mark like that, ever. I think the director was thinking "This whole thing is hosed up, let me try to put my stamp on the story!" and snuck it in because again, it's too ludicrous as an accident. Either way it both messed up Jaime's character for a ton of people, screwed up the redemption arc, and probably will never be acknowledged again unless they try to add some damage control references to it next season.
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Jun 4, 2014 11:43
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Shannow posted:So what exactly was Littlefingers get out of jail free card if Sansa hasn't decided chip in? Because it certainly didn't seem he was counting on it. He was going to tell each member of the group individually that he wanted to meet them by the Moon Door so he could tell them who the one person he truly loved was, and each was going to get all excited and rush off expecting it to be them.
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Jun 4, 2014 11:43
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Baldbeard posted:He also gave Davos his house and welcomed him into his arms and lands. Davos has never loved or respected another man like he does Stannis. Of all the bad poo poo Stannis has done, his dealing with Davos is not one of them. He did not punish Davos for stealing for him, but for an entire life of crime before then -- and by "punishing" him, he wiped his record clean like no-one else would. Reek has never loved another man like he does Ramsay  I mean Davos is one of my favorites, and he seems to really think Stannis is genuinely a great man, but he's probably a bit biased
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Jun 4, 2014 12:01
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I agree. Stannis's flag is some clipart level dumb poo poo.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:27
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SoFarGone posted:Would carry printer for Sansa. This isn't even a wholly creepy and gross statement anymore. Sophie Turner has been doing a good job from day one, but her character wasn't convincingly interesting until a month ago. Glad we finally got there. I had a feeling GRRM wouldn't spend so much time on someone without making them interesting eventually. Sure he'll kill people super abruptly, but he'll make a hell of an effort to get you to like them. I have a feeling we're finally going to get Sansa character payoff soon.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:27
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Napoleon Bonaparty posted:I had a feeling GRRM wouldn't spend so much time on someone without making them interesting eventually. Sure he'll kill people super abruptly, but he'll make a hell of an effort to get you to like them. I have a feeling we're finally going to get Sansa character payoff soon. If the book readers in this thread are to be trusted GRRM didn't write anything Sansa-related beyond the moon door drop or so?
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Jun 4, 2014 12:32
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Grim Up North posted:If the book readers in this thread are to be trusted GRRM didn't write anything Sansa-related beyond the moon door drop or so? That's not really true. There's certainly less of her after that point, but she's still part of the story and building up to something.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:33
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Grim Up North posted:If the book readers in this thread are to be trusted GRRM didn't write anything Sansa-related beyond the moon door drop or so? There are two more books until we're caught up.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:34
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Grim Up North posted:If the book readers in this thread are to be trusted GRRM didn't write anything Sansa-related beyond the moon door drop or so? Nope. I think there may have been one or two more chapters after the meeting with the Vale bannermen, but nothing that would be more than one or two more quick scenes on the show. Some of the stuff we're seeing now is from the end of the third book, but other storylines have gotten almost as far as the books take them, to the point that by the second half of next season they will be necessarily breaking new ground for a lot of characters.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:48
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I dunno about Sansa, how can anyone take that "and you think you know me?" line from Littlefinger as anything but a threat. Like, if she thinks she is going to start pulling poo poo with him all of a sudden I think she is dead meat. Nobody but nobody puts Littlefinger in a corner. I mean, she might start getting little treats like dead Boltons and Freys left outside her door, but I can't imagine Littlefinger wants to gently caress her more then he wants to be king of everything.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:50
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Blazing Ownager posted:Either way it both messed up Jaime's character for a ton of people, screwed up the redemption arc, and probably will never be acknowledged again unless they try to add some damage control references to it next season. Or it showed that Jaime's redemption arc isn't over yet, that his relationship with Cersei is and always has been messed up, and reflects how cold their relationship has become so by this point they are pretty much directly at odds with each other. It wasn't a rape scene in the books, but they have different considerations in what to show the audience. The show doesn't let us get inside any characters' heads, it has to show what they're thinking. This was a deliberate change and a totally functional one, even if it hadn't been conceived that way to begin with.
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Jun 4, 2014 12:59
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I just watched the end. gently caress me that was brutal. Why do the good guys get the worst deaths? 
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Jun 4, 2014 13:09
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Well I'm sure Joffrey's death was a very unpleasant experience too.
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