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Shaggar posted:repl is a sign of bad language which is why java doesn't have one.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:34
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Soricidus posted:actually there are several repls for java. which is good, because they're useful. repls own, esp when u can set a breakpoint and drop down into one for debugging, then have the editor splice in the code fix 
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Jun 9, 2014 15:37
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Soricidus posted:actually there are several repls for java. which is good, because they're useful. no they aren't
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Jun 9, 2014 15:57
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matlab is used predominantly as a repl. matlab is the worst thing there is. awfulness is directly correlated with replness.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:29
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i should probably ask my company to buy me an intellij licence but holy gently caress they're expensive
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Jun 9, 2014 16:33
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rule 36 corporations are people too
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Jun 9, 2014 16:39
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Shaggar posted:no they aren't sry shags u r wrong here. msft release teh roslyn powered C# repl
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Jun 9, 2014 16:47
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Shaggar posted:there no such thing as natural talent but sometimes you run into someone who's really talented *and* has worked really hard and woah
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Jun 9, 2014 16:47
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coffeetable posted:there def is. its a spectrum though, not a binary thing, and its nowhere near as common as ppl who've just worked rlly hard you might say its on a spectrum
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Jun 9, 2014 16:52
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Bloody posted:you might say its on a spectrum 
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Jun 9, 2014 18:02
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i guess it's almost a tautology but i think everybody can be at least mediocre at anything except for me when it comes to posting but i mean when i went to school parents were told poo poo like "oh don't worry if your child isn't doing so well at mathematics, he probably just doesn't have a talent for it"  motherfucker if somebody is considering doing a mathematics phd and isn't getting anywhere then maybe that's the time to perhaps begin to talk about their innate talent (or deficiency thereof) not loving high school
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Jun 9, 2014 18:12
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Mr Dog posted:i guess it's almost a tautology but i think everybody can be at least mediocre at anything hate to break it to you but the people who succeed at phds aren't the ones who are math geniuses but instead the ones who are at least good but more importantly can sort their poo poo out
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Jun 9, 2014 18:21
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really? and here i was thinking the only requirement was weapons-grade autism
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Jun 9, 2014 18:23
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so is pair programming anything other than "we're too cheap to hire good programmers so we'll hire two mediocre ones and hope they'll succeed or at least dilute the blame"?
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Jun 9, 2014 18:39
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Malcolm XML posted:sry shags u r wrong here. python is bad. you can tell because it has a repl.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:42
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repls own bones. java owns bones. two great tastes that taste great together
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Jun 9, 2014 18:42
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I cannot fathom a reason for a repl in java aside from irrelevant math major garbage.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:45
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Shaggar posted:I cannot fathom a reason for a repl in java aside from irrelevant math major garbage. you can only really understand how great a repl is in hindsight. it's a thing you learn by doing. once java repls become widespread you'll join up
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Jun 9, 2014 18:46
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no I wont.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:46
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do you guys debug w/ system.out.println or something?
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Jun 9, 2014 18:47
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xarph posted:so is pair programming anything other than "we're too cheap to hire good programmers so we'll hire two mediocre ones and hope they'll succeed or at least dilute the blame"? I find fixing defects by proxy - I sit behind them and tell them what to type - is a super effective way to get someone up to speed on a new codebase or programming language but it's also insanely tiring and certainly no way to actually develop code
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Jun 9, 2014 18:47
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repls are a really lovely substitute for a good ide
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Jun 9, 2014 19:03
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repl is good for typing out codes and seeing them run really quickly ide is good for testing out codes and stepping into them really quickly is good ees good
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Jun 9, 2014 19:07
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Shaggar posted:I cannot fathom a reason for a repl in java aside from irrelevant math major garbage. immediate window in debugger on steroids shags
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Jun 9, 2014 19:34
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qntm posted:I find fixing defects by proxy - I sit behind them and tell them what to type - is a super effective way to get someone up to speed on a new codebase or programming language yeah, it's pretty great to get people up to speed on things/in sync with things, but as a way to actually get things done it sucks rear end. Basically it's good in 3 cases. You got a new guy coming in to help dev or maintain something you wrote, you got a junior guy who is fixing bugs with something they wrote, or you got 2 people starting a new thing and need to agree on the general architecture.
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Jun 9, 2014 19:34
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do people who dislike repls also dislike interactive consoles in debuggers? is it just value inspection and reading stack traces for them?
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Jun 9, 2014 19:37
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Oh man interaction sucks so much! I long for the days of punched cards that I needed to mail to the computing department of the university to see if my program worked. Ain't seeing no reason to try to make that feedback loop as short as possible. Also, unless you've seen one of these prodigy children that can apparently beat well-trained adults from the moment they started doing a thing at 4-5 years old, then whoever you meet who seems to just have raw natural talent probably just worked a lot at it. They might have had a predisposition or existing abilities acquired through different activities, but they had to get better and there's a 99.99% chance it wasn't through sitting on their rear end and playing videogames until their natural abilities bloomed on their own.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:03
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:i know writing queries can get a bit involved but is this really necessary?? eh, it looks pretty much like sql server management studio which works with other dbs and with better autocomplete/intellisense (which wouldn't be hard). nothing wrong with making queries less tiresome to write imo. anything that eases the mechanical tedium of writing SELECT * FROM a JOIN b ON etc ten times a day is nice
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Jun 9, 2014 20:50
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FamDav posted:repl is good for typing out codes and seeing them run really quickly I cant think of any scenario where I'd want to "see code run quickly" that aren't toy problems (ex: math). Using the debugger is gonna be more useful in every possible way.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:53
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Shaggar posted:I cant think of any scenario where I'd want to "see code run quickly" that aren't toy problems (ex: math). Using the debugger is gonna be more useful in every possible way. that might also point to an issue with having a language so cumbersome that nothing useful can be done in it without heavy tool assistance, too.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:04
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Shaggar posted:I cant think of any scenario where I'd want to "see code run quickly" that aren't toy problems (ex: math). Using the debugger is gonna be more useful in every possible way. one of the things that's super-cool about .net properties is that you can inspect them with the debugger being able to write your own properties on the fly for debugging is useful
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Jun 9, 2014 21:08
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MononcQc posted:Also, unless you've seen one of these prodigy children that can apparently beat well-trained adults from the moment they started doing a thing at 4-5 years old, then whoever you meet who seems to just have raw natural talent probably just worked a lot at it. They might have had a predisposition or existing abilities acquired through different activities, but they had to get better and there's a 99.99% chance it wasn't through sitting on their rear end and playing videogames until their natural abilities bloomed on their own. i have a massive amount of natural talent for most sports in that i am much taller than average and left-handed i did not use that natural talent at all but that is natural talent 
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Jun 9, 2014 21:11
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MononcQc posted:that might also point to an issue with having a language so cumbersome that nothing useful can be done in it without heavy tool assistance, too. i don't get what "useful" stuff you're talking about that requires a repl. math homework doesn't count.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:14
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GrumpyDoctor posted:one of the things that's super-cool about .net properties is that you can inspect them with the debugger it ticks me off you cant edit code while running in vs like you can in eclipse.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:15
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Shaggar posted:i don't get what "useful" stuff you're talking about that requires a repl. math homework doesn't count. well, when you don't have decipherable signatures it lets you mess around until you figure things out
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Jun 9, 2014 21:29
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Shaggar posted:i don't get what "useful" stuff you're talking about that requires a repl. math homework doesn't count. It doesn't require a REPL, but it's possible to do it there and even in production if you have a system that supports it. I can use the REPL to go poll the active connections open across an entire cluster in a couple of lines, and then find which customer is actively pegging all my bandwidth without having required to write any specific code before-hand. I can use it in dev to manually kill or suspend parts of the system to simulate failure scenarios and what impact they may have later in a live environment. If I see that stuff appears to work fine, I'm free to transform it in a test case of some sort. It lets you try minor stuff, explore around, try ideas before you get to write the more permanent stuff in a file. It can be useful across the entire development cycle depending on the type of stuff you work on, without preventing the use of a debugger altogether.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:37
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Shaggar posted:i don't get what "useful" stuff you're talking about that requires a repl. math homework doesn't count. database janitoring
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Jun 9, 2014 21:53
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Shaggar posted:python is bad. you can tell because it has a repl. python doesn't have a repl. it has an interactive shell 
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Jun 9, 2014 22:07
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MononcQc posted:heavy tool assistance please dont post my underlings' job description
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Jun 9, 2014 22:13
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tef posted:database janitoring so is powershell a repl ?
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Jun 9, 2014 22:15
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